Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Martin-Swinscoe on August 30, 2009, 10:44:29 pm

Title: Thieving
Post by: Martin-Swinscoe on August 30, 2009, 10:44:29 pm
Took a phone call off a customer a couple of hours ago. They reckon whilst i was doing the outsides of the house. The lad who i employ who was doing the insides at the time and  is 18 they reckon a gold ring has gone missing from their house.

I've employed this  lad for the past 2 years and yes he's a bit of a lad etc. But to call him a thief it doesn't ring any alarm bell's. As far as i'm concerned he does his job and totally trustworthy. Do i believe the customer or do i believe the lad?
ie: either lose a custy or lose someone that i trust? tough call to ask and the only trouble is it's a small town that i serve and one bad word will spread like wild fire
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: concept on August 30, 2009, 10:48:29 pm
not one for us to give you a right or wrong on to be fair...however, you are the only person that knows your employ, and if you trust him implicitly, then, weigh up the potential costs of losing him or a customer...tough call, but it's your call...
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: jonnyald on August 30, 2009, 10:55:45 pm
sunday workin and on a bank holiday weekend  too / whats thatabout???
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: TonyD on August 30, 2009, 11:06:43 pm
That's a tough one to call.
I'd go with your instincts, if you've had no problems in 2 years why would he steal now ?  People mislay stuff all the time and look to blame anyone but them for mislaying it.  It might just turn up somewhere. 

I know this seems OTT, but what about a honey trap or two for him, arrange to do a house, even a friends house or something and leave a few temptations about, that will tell you for sure I'd have thought.  Or is that out of order to do that I don't know.
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: jeff1 on August 30, 2009, 11:33:12 pm
Do a good Job and your customers will tell just a few people? yet do a bad Job and your customers will tell everyone, in this case I would get around to that customers house and get it sorted before they tell everyone that their w/c is a thief and you loose all your customers.

They won't tell everyone its the lad who works for the w/c that stole the ring, this bit will be omitted it will be the w/c stole my ring, think about it and sort it fast, rumours and gossip travel fast. 
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: Platinum NW on August 30, 2009, 11:34:11 pm
My mum used to clean a house for a wealthy woman a few years ago - She accused my mum of taking this £3000 ring which my mum denied - Anyhow after the cheshire police searched our house they discovered the woman had recently had building work done at a sum of £3500 - Resulting in a search of the womans house they found the ring hid at the back of a drawer in the bedroom - the woman wasnt as wealthy as we thought and tried to claim some insurance money to cover her bills
My mum resigned straight away, she got a warning and that was that

Maybe the recession is pinching your customer abit to hard
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: eclipse on August 30, 2009, 11:36:12 pm
id pull him to the side and just explain that you are going to get in touch with the customer and tell them that you are going to call the police in on this matter tell him if he has done nothing not to worry but you have to do it
if you lad is telling the truth he will have nothing to worry about but on the other side of the coin if the custy is telling porkies they may try and talk you out of it

whether the guy has worked for you for years or not it is your name on the side of the van so to speak and it is up to you to take action... call it damage limitation if you like....if it does turn out the lad has been theiving then at least you have taken prompt action about this   whatever happens it shows your custies that you have a zero tollerance regarding matters like this

On a carpet cleaning course i took i was told about a lad who had cleaned a 3 piece suite and down the side of it he had found 3 gold coins which he put on the mantlepiece,
when he had finished the job he brought the custie in and said theres your suite all clean etc etc by the way i found 3 gold coins down the side of it ive put them on the mantlepiece for you
custie turns around and says "there should be 4 gold coins down there" turn out the coins were gold south african krugerands and down the side of the suite was the hiding place

any way lad got on to his employer who went straight round and rang the police
in the end it turned out that the custie only really had 3 coins and had tried to pull a fast one at this lads expence   
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: mci services on August 30, 2009, 11:41:32 pm
id pull him to the side and just explain that you are going to get in touch with the customer and tell them that you are going to call the police in on this matter tell him if he has done nothing not to worry but you have to do it
if you lad is telling the truth he will have nothing to worry about but on the other side of the coin if the custy is telling porkies they may try and talk you out of it

whether the guy has worked for you for years or not it is your name on the side of the van so to speak and it is up to you to take action... call it damage limitation if you like....if it does turn out the lad has been theiving then at least you have taken prompt action about this   whatever happens it shows your custies that you have a zero tollerance regarding matters like this

best bit of advice ive heard in a while, the lad will bottle it and own up or the customer will backtrack and say not to bother either way you will know the score
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: trevor povey on August 31, 2009, 12:43:09 am
 not at all suggesting yr lad is wrong but in future you could clean the inside of any properties and let any employed person do the outside therfore there is no grey areas at all ;)
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: Slash on August 31, 2009, 07:41:12 am
This happened to me just before Christmas last year,the woman rang up to complain that her ring of great sentimental value had gome missing from her dressing table the day I cleaned her insides ,I did explain to her I had not seen it but she was determent it was me who STOLE it as I was the only person in the house that day along with her family.I was very worried at the time as I was completly innocent and what a bad word as THIEF would do to my reputation it almost ruined my Christmas,
However the day after Boxing Day she rang up to say she had found it stuffed down the back of her dressing table along with other hair accessories,I was so happy yet angry at the same time,how dare she accuse me,I never went back to her and still do the other houses in the cul de sac,her neighbours do ask me why I don't do her anymore to which I reply there was a misunderstanding but I bet she feels well embarresed now and her windows are BLACK  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: Londoner on August 31, 2009, 08:51:13 am
This is exactly the reason why I won't do insides except for a couple of regulars.
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: simon knight on August 31, 2009, 09:01:20 am

Silly thing is that if you go on the nick in this game you last precisely 2 weeks.
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: ian1972 on August 31, 2009, 09:28:44 am
take the word of the person you no over some stranger as long as he has never given u reason to doub his word
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: Martin-Swinscoe on August 31, 2009, 12:22:49 pm
I've spoke to the lad who is absolutly adamant HE HAS NOT STOLEN THE RING.
I've also been down to see the custy who is also adamant that he has had no one else who has been in that room for ages so it must be the young lad.
I asked him if he actually saw him pocket the ring with his own eyes- he didn't!
Now i suggested that we call the police- the custy started to back track a little bit saying if he called the insurance people he might not need the police involved. and basically we can sweep it under the carpet etc.
I'm not happy with that i want a guilty or not guilty verdict as i feel that i've got nothing to hide, and my gut reaction is that he is on the fiddle
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: simon knight on August 31, 2009, 12:52:27 pm

Sounds to me like the custy is definately a crooked so-and-so.  When he says call the insurance people and sweep it under the carpet what's he saying? That he call his insurance company and say the ring has gone missing and he suspects the window cleaner took it?  Or perhaps his plan is to call his insurance company and they'll contact your insurance company?

Personally I'd get old bill involved. Your customer is the sort who bumps up premiums for the rest of us "honest" guys.
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: jeff1 on August 31, 2009, 01:02:27 pm
He's saying the ring has been stolen then the insurance company will want a URN number without that they won't pay out? or is he going to tell them he lost it??? The guy is a crook and I would involve the Police so it all back fires on him, tell the police Just what the customer said.
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: Rob.Hall on August 31, 2009, 01:21:35 pm
A mate of mine is a w/c.

A lady reported him for nicking a ring.

Next thing he knows is the police are all over his house serching. No draw or cubby holes excluded.

He has a family and was quite mortified.

The police took him after down to the station for questioning.

Two days later the case was dropped. The lady found it later!

Just goes to show. Now he is reluctant to do any inside cleans.

A good honest down to earth chap.
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: ian1972 on August 31, 2009, 01:55:39 pm
well i would push to get the police involved if he is after a insurance claim,u want to clear the lads name and yours
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: tomy jackson on August 31, 2009, 02:45:30 pm
no plece no pay out .did i see you yesterday YCSW down cleceton rd???????????
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: eclipse on August 31, 2009, 02:48:40 pm
Phone the law and when it is all sorted and she "finds" the ring take her to one side and explain that if she mentions the fact that she accused your employee to any one in the street you will have her for slander
oh and drop her
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: tomy jackson on August 31, 2009, 03:03:08 pm
i wosent shor as your frunt end wos srate :-\ :-\ :-\
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: tomy jackson on August 31, 2009, 03:11:09 pm
yes youv had your holls then its a buger haveing to com back to the rane  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: leapstallbuildings on August 31, 2009, 05:43:27 pm
I've spoke to the lad who is absolutly adamant HE HAS NOT STOLEN THE RING.
I've also been down to see the custy who is also adamant that he has had no one else who has been in that room for ages so it must be the young lad.
I asked him if he actually saw him pocket the ring with his own eyes- he didn't!
Now i suggested that we call the police- the custy started to back track a little bit saying if he called the insurance people he might not need the police involved. and basically we can sweep it under the carpet etc.
I'm not happy with that i want a guilty or not guilty verdict as i feel that i've got nothing to hide, and my gut reaction is that he is on the fiddle

Definitely get the police in on this without your customer's consent.   The customer would need a crime reference number from the police anyway in order to claim.  The daft thing is that a claim may be ruled offside by the insurance company as they usually insist on violent and/or forced entry - and being scammed by someone wh is invited in is not usually covered (not insinuating that this is what haoppened BTW).
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: Platinum NW on August 31, 2009, 06:20:14 pm
just get the police to come round your customers and go and see them - Let them take statements and tell them you will co-operate fully with them - theres isnt anymore you can do
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: martinsadie on August 31, 2009, 06:31:18 pm
if i have someone working with me and insides need doing ,i do them myself although i have known one of my lads for 18 year and trust him fully
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: tomy jackson on August 31, 2009, 07:42:28 pm
its the niker dror that neads locking up from wot iv heard  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: martinsadie on August 31, 2009, 07:55:47 pm
its the niker dror that neads locking up from wot iv heard  ;D ;D ;D
knickers to you too  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: aiminvestor on September 01, 2009, 12:09:29 am
id pull him to the side and just explain that you are going to get in touch with the customer and tell them that you are going to call the police in on this matter tell him if he has done nothing not to worry but you have to do it
if you lad is telling the truth he will have nothing to worry about but on the other side of the coin if the custy is telling porkies they may try and talk you out of it

whether the guy has worked for you for years or not it is your name on the side of the van so to speak and it is up to you to take action... call it damage limitation if you like....if it does turn out the lad has been theiving then at least you have taken prompt action about this   whatever happens it shows your custies that you have a zero tollerance regarding matters like this

On a carpet cleaning course i took i was told about a lad who had cleaned a 3 piece suite and down the side of it he had found 3 gold coins which he put on the mantlepiece,
when he had finished the job he brought the custie in and said theres your suite all clean etc etc by the way i found 3 gold coins down the side of it ive put them on the mantlepiece for you
custie turns around and says "there should be 4 gold coins down there" turn out the coins were gold south african krugerands and down the side of the suite was the hiding place

any way lad got on to his employer who went straight round and rang the police
in the end it turned out that the custie only really had 3 coins and had tried to pull a fast one at this lads expence   


Excellent advice, exactly what I would do in the same circumstances.

It's up to the W/C to wrest the initiative from the customer here, and that means calling in the police first, and let them do their job.

Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: sparklebright on September 01, 2009, 06:08:23 am
I would give the custy the chance to back down without them looking too stupid by saying 'Please have a really good search for it' and if you can't find it in 2 days I will call the police'
That way they can 'find' it and it tells them you won't just let this accusation go.

Whatever you do, you need to step on this cos as the saying goes.

Rumour can run round twice round the world in the time it takes for the truth to put on it's shoes
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: ian1972 on September 01, 2009, 01:06:16 pm
rumers ruin reputations very quickly people remember the bad stuff better than the good so stamp on it
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: Mike #1 on September 01, 2009, 08:04:28 pm
as above call police if custy is dodgy he could go back on anything he says to you , your business could be ruined CALL POLICE
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: Martin-Swinscoe on September 01, 2009, 09:00:59 pm
Latest News :
The Police are now involved, i thought i'd take the lad round to the house today to face the accusers. The women accused him of taking the ring, the lad absolutly denied the accusation. After several minutes i told the hubby and wife that i am going to notify the police, So now they have been notified they will be coming round all of houses for statements. Meanwhile the young lad is still unders suspicion.............the plot thickens
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: jonnyald on September 01, 2009, 09:29:31 pm
back ur lad up  much as u can  , otherwise he wil quit .     its one of those times where men stand shoulder to shoulder
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: daz1977 on September 01, 2009, 09:48:45 pm
this reminds me of a time when i was fitting a bathroom for a customer in my previous job as a plumber, the house was being done up so was a complete mess, as bathroom and kitchen was out, the lady of the house came near the end of the job and claimed that her lap top had gone missing from the room next to where we was working, so we said call the police then we will wait for them, aftera but of moaning and claim that that it had been pinched the hubby said to me that he didnt even know they had a lap top lol

my uncle use to be a window cleaner and would never do in side for the reason that if any thing goes missing you get the blame

custy are always trying to pull a fast one, as a lot think that your insurance will pay out and they will make a few bob and that it doesnt matter to you as ur a company, for instance, my van insurance trebeled because someone claimed that i caused a car accident becasue he hit a parked car doing 60 in a 30 zone and i was 50 yards up the road, so untill its sorted my insurance as gone up, but his car that he was only 3 party on and could not afford to fix him self has been fixed and put back on road,  just waiting for it to go court then i am going to sue him lol
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: Helen on September 01, 2009, 10:12:18 pm
I've spoke to the lad who is absolutly adamant HE HAS NOT STOLEN THE RING.
I've also been down to see the custy who is also adamant that he has had no one else who has been in that room for ages so it must be the young lad.
I asked him if he actually saw him pocket the ring with his own eyes- he didn't!
Now i suggested that we call the police- the custy started to back track a little bit saying if he called the insurance people he might not need the police involved. and basically we can sweep it under the carpet etc.
I'm not happy with that i want a guilty or not guilty verdict as i feel that i've got nothing to hide, and my gut reaction is that he is on the fiddle


Remember to put this visit and details in your statement
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: aiminvestor on September 01, 2009, 10:54:57 pm
I've spoke to the lad who is absolutly adamant HE HAS NOT STOLEN THE RING.
I've also been down to see the custy who is also adamant that he has had no one else who has been in that room for ages so it must be the young lad.
I asked him if he actually saw him pocket the ring with his own eyes- he didn't!
Now i suggested that we call the police- the custy started to back track a little bit saying if he called the insurance people he might not need the police involved. and basically we can sweep it under the carpet etc.
I'm not happy with that i want a guilty or not guilty verdict as i feel that i've got nothing to hide, and my gut reaction is that he is on the fiddle


Remember to put this visit and details in your statement

In effect, without proof, the police cannot charge anyone, IMHO, so as long as the lad continues to deny it, I'm sure there's nothing they can do.

Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: AuRavelling79 on September 02, 2009, 05:12:22 pm
Any developments Martin-Swinscoe? What was the custy's reaction when you said you'd involve the police?
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: Martin-Swinscoe on September 02, 2009, 05:32:58 pm
Any developments Martin-Swinscoe? What was the custy's reaction when you said you'd involve the police?

Custy Just said "ok". I'm waiting for the police to come round for statements etc. The lad hasn't heard off them either.
     Thankfully i'm working out in the sticks for the next couple of weeks or so. hopefully when we do the town again things might just have calmed down a bit.
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: Mike #1 on September 02, 2009, 05:36:48 pm
ireally hope so , hope eveyything works out ok
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: paul beckett on September 02, 2009, 05:55:18 pm
i reakon you should stand by your man, this is the time when he needs your support, dont sh-t on him at the last  minute, hes the one who has supported you for the last two years. take it on together i say.
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: tonyoliver on September 02, 2009, 10:17:44 pm
if she thought for one second you stole it the cops would be on yer door by now its a CON
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: Martin-Swinscoe on September 03, 2009, 06:49:19 pm
if she thought for one second you stole it the cops would be on yer door by now its a CON
I'd have thought they'd have been knocking the front door down with a sledge hammer at 6am in the morning.
As i see it the lad has been accused. We've forwarded his phone number mobile & landline, gave them the addresss of where we both live. surley it can't get any easier "police work" than that... and still they haven't been round ???
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: gordonswindows on September 04, 2009, 12:10:02 pm
phone the Police no question

we clean windows .....they investigate

they will either clear your lad or recover the ring

its not about trust, it is about doing the right thing for everybody involved
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: simon knight on September 05, 2009, 12:29:01 pm

Out of interest Martin what's the ring supposed to be worth? Is it a bit of Ratners £50 crap or a pukka emerald and diamond set in platignum ring worth £1000s ?
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: GWCS on September 05, 2009, 01:14:54 pm
if she thought for one second you stole it the cops would be on yer door by now its a CON
I'd have thought they'd have been knocking the front door down with a sledge hammer at 6am in the morning.
As i see it the lad has been accused. We've forwarded his phone number mobile & landline, gave them the addresss of where we both live. surley it can't get any easier "police work" than that... and still they haven't been round ???

for a ring? nah, they have better things to do.

No proof of theft, no witnesses, nothing the police can or will do without proof.

There not gonna come round to ask did you take the ring? they will simply make a report as per.. and then the custy can make an insurance claim at leave it as that - maybe question the lad IF they have something to go on.



Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: Martin-Swinscoe on September 05, 2009, 10:17:10 pm

Out of interest Martin what's the ring supposed to be worth? Is it a bit of Ratners £50 crap or a pukka emerald and diamond set in platignum ring worth £1000s ?
the custy reckoned he bought it for £150 thirty years ago and in his own words "God knows how much it's worth now"...............
Still not heard a thing off the police
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: alanwilson on September 06, 2009, 05:18:07 pm
is there even any record of this ring ever existing??

Its a tough dilemna, you want to believe your lad and back him up, yet at the same time you need to keep your custy happy.

If your customer bought it for £150 thirty years ago then why haven't they got it in a safe.

Try to remember what the average wage was 30 years ago but certainly £150 was a hell of a lot of money then.
Title: Re: Thieving
Post by: simon knight on September 06, 2009, 05:58:40 pm
is there even any record of this ring ever existing??

Try to remember what the average wage was 30 years ago but certainly £150 was a hell of a lot of money then.

Bloody good point.

This missing ring scenario is getting smellier by the second!