Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Neil Williams on August 24, 2009, 10:20:45 pm
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Did a mattres clean nearly 2 weeks ago.
Checked with the guy the day after the clean to make sure he was happy and he was chuffed.
So as he had forgotton to leave the money out on the day I said could you send the cheque.
He sent the cheque and irony of irony it bounced just like the mattress 8)
I just about saw this coming as when I finished the job I saw a returned cheque on the kitchen worktop.
I've sent it back to him but I'm starting to tire of filling in on-line court papers for non payment >:(
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Did a mattres clean nearly 2 weeks ago.
Checked with the guy the day after the clean to make sure he was happy and he was chuffed.
So as he had forgotton to leave the money out on the day I said could you send the cheque.
He sent the cheque and irony of irony it bounced just like the mattress 8)
I just about saw this coming as when I finished the job I saw a returned cheque on the kitchen worktop.
I've sent it back to him but I'm starting to tire of filling in on-line court papers for non payment >:(
do you get them to sign a contact before work starts or just inform them you file paper if it bounces?
Just wondered how you can claim if you dont actually have a written contract.. never tried claims.. but be interesting to know for the future
thanks..
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If you were working for somebody else you would have to insist on a guaranteed payment either cash, cheque with guarantee card ( if you accept this method). Why when you are handling your own money can you not insist on this also. It is not unreasonable it is the way of business and customers expect this to happen.
If you register with Thomas Higgins in Manchester then they only charge about £3 for a letter and in most cases this will secure your payment in most cases. A verbal contract will stand up in court and we have never had any question of this brought into court. You already are in the right if the cheque has bounced as it is illeagal to write a cheque if there are not sufficient funds to cover it.
Had the customer refused to pay because he was not happy with the work then it would be a totally different matter.
Peter
www.carpetcleaner-cardiff.co.uk (http://www.carpetcleaner-cardiff.co.uk)
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You don't need anything written down. Contract law has been reformed in recent years to favour word of mouth contracts such as the majority of us still undertake.
Someone with more legal knowledge than me could explain it better.
I've just successfully got a CCJ against a plasterer who didn't pay me for a job to correct one of his accidents. Job ticket was £60+VAT ::)
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Contract has always been this way Jim.
When you buy a newspaper that is a legally binding contract.
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I insist on payment upon completion. I wont move until I get paid now!!
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I - implicit
W - written
O - oral
N - Necessity
D - Deed
E - Estoppel
R - Ratification
These are the seven ways that a contract can be formed. Only some perhaps need further clarification.
An example of Implicit would be if you had worked for somebody then you wouldn't do so unless there was an obvious implication that you expected to be paid for your labour.
Necessity. If say you prevent a flood from causing greater damage to a carpet and furnishings then although no contract may formerly be in existence, by undertaking the salvage then by necessity a contract is being formed between you and the owner of the carpets because you had to get on with the salvage rather than waiting for a contract to be agreed.
Deed. This is a legal "deed" such as a will which is witnessed and stamped.
Estoppel is just a fancy word meaning that the facts are so obvious that neither party would be able to deny the self-evident truth of the facts. Eg. if an employee has worked for an employer for 12 months and has been paid weekly then the employer cannot turn round and deny that there was no contract.
Ratification. Although no contract may have been in existence at the time that consideration passed, both parties can subsequently agree that the intention had been there to have a contract.
As you can see working for people creates a contract at several levels - oral is just one of them.
Class dismissed!
I shall be testing you on your new found legal knowledge next week. All you have to do is remember the acronym.
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A BASEBALL BAT NORMALLY DOES THE TRICK ;D ;D ;D
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So whats the minimum you can actually claim for?
Im a window cleaner and im owed small compared to what you guys charge but a number of outstanding payments.
I like reading the CC section much more help and advise received :D
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Pete - my old boss had a legal wrangle a number of years ago, I seemed to recall something being said about changing of laws... must be my fuzzy memory then :)
Damn good info Roger, hopefully will help others feel more confident they have a right to seek payment in disputes like this.
GWCS have a look at https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/ it'll tell you all you need to know. You can do a claim online in 5 minutes, it's that simple.
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The fact that the guy sent you a cheque in the first place is good enough for a claim.
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Pete - my old boss had a legal wrangle a number of years ago, I seemed to recall something being said about changing of laws... must be my fuzzy memory then :)
Damn good info Roger, hopefully will help others feel more confident they have a right to seek payment in disputes like this.
GWCS have a look at https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/ it'll tell you all you need to know. You can do a claim online in 5 minutes, it's that simple.
Thanks Jim! ;)
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I'm sure that as the cheque bounced, you can apply for a summary finding, ie
he can not defend it. Basically the judge awards you the claim,
as there is no defence in law to bouncing a cheque.
You claim for the outstanding amount,
the court fee
and interest at 8% per day. ie 8% annual divided by 365
administration fees, ie your costs trying to get payment.
If you go to court you can also claim £50 to cover lost earnings.
If you calculate this, and send a letter requesting payment by return of post. Failure to comply
resulting in your Application for Summary judgement.
So £60 now payable, would become 60 + 38 + 1.31p (per day) + £10 (or whatever you charge for a letter)= £108 + interest.
If you do go to court £158 + interest.
If your claim goes in they can do nothing about it, they've already lost, the moment
the cheque bounced.
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So whats the minimum you can actually claim for?
I don't think there is a minimum. I've filed papers before for £30 unpaid window cleaning bills, and only this morning I walked out of the County Court with £200 after dealings with a local Ford dealership franchise, when the front bumper went missing off my Transit whilst it was sitting in their car park awaiting repairs. Ok it's taken since October 2008 to get this matter sorted but I'm like a dog with a bone when I'm pushed enough ;D
As for Mr Sleepy with his mattress, he's had the letter with a photo copy of his £92 bouncing cheque and if need be I'll take him to Court to.
I'll be on first name terms with the Court Usher if I stay in this game much longer 8)
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The fact that the guy sent you a cheque in the first place is good enough for a claim.
Exactly
People make out cheques knowing they will bounce, some stop them. What they don't realise is that it's proof of a promise to pay. Some people eh!
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As per my previous posts on this, and what Peter said up above, use Thomas Higgins, letter before action costs about £2.60.
My last customers Invoice was £360 or so, wouldnt answer the phone, gone away, etc etc. Used Thomas Higgins and cheque in my name inside 7days, OK had to pay them the £2.60 but hey whats that eh.
Having used them time and time again they allways get the money, I suppose the letter on County Court paper saying they are due in Court in 10 days time or so scares the cr@p out of them.
I have always been paid, from 2k down to £30.00.
Good luck.
Murky
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As per my previous posts on this, and what Peter said up above, use Thomas Higgins, letter before action costs about £2.60.
My last customers Invoice was £360 or so, wouldnt answer the phone, gone away, etc etc. Used Thomas Higgins and cheque in my name inside 7days, OK had to pay them the £2.60 but hey whats that eh.
Having used them time and time again they allways get the money, I suppose the letter on County Court paper saying they are due in Court in 10 days time or so scares the cr@p out of them.
I have always been paid, from 2k down to £30.00.
Good luck.
Murky
you can claim that £2.60 back as expenses anyway :P
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I wouldn't claim the £2.60, i'd add an admin fee of £10 or £20 on to what was owed.
Depending who you bank with, you are charged for that cheque being returned, add that on also.
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And of course there's another expense for the drawer of the cheque.
They'll be charged £30 or so by the bank upon which it is draw if it is returned unpaid . ;D ;D In the older days a cheque could go through the system and only on the third time might it come back "Refer to Drawer" thus having cost the account holder £90 and the cheque still not having been paid-even if it was only for £40 or so.
And here's a tip: never let the drawer write the cheque guarantee card number on the back; always do it yourself. If the drawer writes the number on it then it is not valid and can still be bounced by the paying bank.
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Roger I was once told that by a bank manager customer of mine, he always questioned my bill to him though and I had to itemise everything for him.
I think he was trying to stop me from having a big bonus unlike him.
Shaun
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Shaun
High street bank managers don't get big bonuses (unlike the city boys). That's why he was questioning the size of your bill. They are poorly paid :o
Why else do you think I left banking to take up carpet cleaning? ;D ;D ;D
Roger
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I'm sure you are right but bankers aren't everyones favourite at the moment I bet you are glad you are out of it? but everytime I do work for someone in that fraternity there is always a question about the bill perhaps they are all shifting into carpet cleaning.
Shaun
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How to you guys approach the subject of payment terms when dealing with your customers?
Or is it a case of if no payment then you wack the letter before action at them without telling them this is the procedure before hand?
Or do you advise by giving a payment terms reference sheet? Or is that type of info already on your quotation sheets in some small print?
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For domestics then obviously you get paid at the end of the job.
Commercial is a bit different. Some jobs you just wont get if you demand payment on completion. But the BIG trick is to find out what their payment terms are, make sure they stick to them and find out in advance who you need to speak to about delayed payment. This will not necessarily be the same person as the person who gives you the go-ahead to do the job. Stating you want payment immediately from a big organisation just doesn't happen despite you "agreeing" it with the person who gives you the job.
You should expect to have to wait 30 days in many cases and your business shouldn't be so-under-capitalised that it cannot cope with such a scenario. Obviously if they pay more quickly then that is a bonus. Being paid by BACS as opposed to cheque can often speed up getting paid as well.
How's that for an opening gambit GWCS?
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For domestics then obviously you get paid at the end of the job.
Commercial is a bit different. Some jobs you just wont get if you demand payment on completion. But the BIG trick is to find out what their payment terms are, make sure they stick to them and find out in advance who you need to speak to about delayed payment. This will not necessarily be the same person as the person who gives you the go-ahead to do the job. Stating you want payment immediately from a big organisation just doesn't happen despite you "agreeing" it with the person who gives you the job.
You should expect to have to wait 30 days in many cases and your business shouldn't be so-under-capitalised that it cannot cope with such a scenario. Obviously if they pay more quickly then that is a bonus. Being paid by BACS as opposed to cheque can often speed up getting paid as well.
How's that for an opening gambit GWCS?
Ive never had probs with commercial jobs (yet) but obviously i always state 30 days for payment.
Its generally residential clients that pay after service, who then keep you waiting around for £30 dispite letters phonecalls etc.
I think a nice letter from some solicitors will be the kick up the a-r-s-e they need to pay.
I was wondering if i should state payment terms (other than please pay within 14 days) and consequences off non payment, such as referral to debt solicitors?
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And here's a tip: never let the drawer write the cheque guarantee card number on the back; always do it yourself. If the drawer writes the number on it then it is not valid and can still be bounced by the paying bank.
how would the bank know who wrote the number on the back ? ???
steve
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And here's a tip: never let the drawer write the cheque guarantee card number on the back; always do it yourself. If the drawer writes the number on it then it is not valid and can still be bounced by the paying bank.
how would the bank know who wrote the number on the back ? ???
steve
Steve
They look at the ink/pen used for writing out the front of the cheque and also compare handwriting. Also some beneficiaries would never take a card number, therefore if one is written on it must have been put there by the drawer, not the beneficiary.
Roger
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fair doo's
You wouldn't think they go to that much trouble
must admit i always tel the custy to put the number on themselves & then just check it
fortunately i only get about one cheque a year that bounces so not been too much of problem :)
steve