Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: barry80 on August 02, 2009, 05:08:40 pm
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hi guys , I have got a back pack, with 24 ft pole , can you tell me in the winter time what you do when real cold to stop the water from freezing up??? kind of worrying....thanks barry
:)
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I bring in all my 25 Litre barrels and fill up in the mornings. Bring the poles in as well. RO left permenently in the back garden in a large dog crate protected with bubble wrap and tarpaulins, never had any freeze up problems at all.
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i found the water froze in my van, so some days i would be out for 1 hr just driving to heat the van and the hoses. as long as the hose came out the van unfrozen, the moving water wouldn't freeze.
so, there's your answer, get an insulated van ::)
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you need isopropanol might not be spelt correctly buy on ebay 5ltrs about £20 i put 25ml in each 25ltr container if its going to drop below freezing worked in -5c no probs
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well how come pure water dont freeze! when Ive cleaned trad it freezes so I use car window wash does the trick ..... But pure water surely must freeze I dont get it Barry. p.s been cleaning 27 yrs now...
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I insulated one of the vans, and the water in tank, hoses, poles still frooze ???
I had a cab heater in second van, again it frooze.
My advise would be to clear pipes at night, in system if you have a garage use it.. Only lost 1 day last year/this year and a few hours per day on other defrosting. (before someone says it) hot water system would not have helped as was solid in the morning and the repair bill would have been worse should anything have popped
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if possible put an oil filled radiator in back of van overnight heard it works , also i have got my ro and di inside a plastic box lined and covered with plastic recycled loft insulation then placed inside one of those plastic garden chests lined with the same stuff no probs what so ever
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I am ok with poles and water in containers keeping warm, as I have a outside boiler in out house they can go in there. But my worry is when on real real cold mornings, water freezing peoples windows up etc.... Barry
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I am ok with poles and water in containers keeping warm, as I have a outside boiler in out house they can go in there. But my worry is when on real real cold mornings, water freezing peoples windows up etc.... Barry
very rare does that happen, and if it does dont worry about it, if it is freezzing when you are cleaning it is to cold to clean windows. I have not been stopped yet as water you use is not at freezing point and runs and runs, if it does freeze it is pure ;) (use it as a selling point how many others round your way offer ice cleaning service ;D
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ha ha yeah true ;)
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surely that isopropanal will smear windows wont it? :(
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Freezing water is a real problem on those days when temperature is well below freezing.
I can stop my main 1000l holding tank from freezing, but I have to use the extra large hose in conjunction with my transfer pump to fill up my van tank...which is 35m away from my holding tank, on really cold mornings there is sod al I can do to prevent freeze ups...It is just too long to insulate effectively.
Keeping the van tank frost free is simple...for me at any rate as I can leave a fan heater in the back left on a frost stat setting...never had a problem there.
However....
If it is THAT cold, then even though everything is frost free, as soon as you start to work the water will often freeze at the jets in the brush, water on the poles also freezes as does the water in either the pole hose or the main hose.
A hot water system is probably the only way of solving the problem where working is concerned.
Isopropanol?
Sort of helps, I bought a 25l container of the stuff in the hope I could at least stop the transfer hose from freezing up...but was to no avail, ditto in work too, the amount you would have to put in would make it hideously expensive!!
Doesn't leave streaks of any kind on the glass, it has a zero TDS reading, even when measured neat.
It does help though, but not really in very low temperatures...afraid you just have to suck it up and take your lumps :'(
or buy a hot water system ;)
Ian
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I have an oil filled radiator in the van and an aquarium heater in my van tank, both keep it from freezing even on the coldest nights but only just.
I do live in the south east though and by the coast where we don't get as much frost as inland.
But you won't lose loads of days just the odd one...
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i use a green house tubular heater in back of van stops tank and hoses etc freezing but not the outlets because they are outside the van. You will lose time because of frost you cant pole when the waters freezing. the water freezes on glass before the dirt rinses away!
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i have a lwb high roof transit
fitted two 200w frost protection heaters from b&q they work well but on very
frosty nights i also put an oil filled rad set on frost guard to be sure
outside ports on van froze last winter frost tracked up hoses froze pump
right back to the tank so i cut hoses inside van fitted hose connectors
now after filling tank in winter i just disconnect blow through hoses
no problems after that
no damage was done just a lesson i had to learn
hope this helps someone
robin
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isopropanal will prevent water freezing when mixed in the right percentage...isopropanal and other alcohols are used to prevent liquids freezing in a sealed/closed enviroment...this is why it prevents water freezing in tanks...but as soon as you squirt that water out the end of the brush the alcohol starts to evaporate and it WILL freeze on the glass..
Last year I ran a load of 'rough' expirements usings Methanol in % varying from 1 to 20% in 1 litre coke bottles and using pure water....temps varied from 0 to -12 and the results followed the 'scientific' rules.
But when the water was squirted on the glass this is when the whole idea fell apart.
Don't waste your time using these alcohols for anything other than keeping your tank water/closed systems in a liquid state...the right % mix it will cost you ....
25ml in 25l is not worth the effort of taking th cap off and pouring it in....no offence :)
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ethanol-water-d_989.html
Cheers
Dave.
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well how come pure water dont freeze! when Ive cleaned trad it freezes so I use car window wash does the trick ..... But pure water surely must freeze I dont get it Barry. p.s been cleaning 27 yrs now...
I dont get this either ?
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This thread is depressing me!
Last winter (which I think most will agree was the worst in a long time) I had a mere. I was totally not prepared for it. I spent a small fortune on diffrent oil filled rads that did no good. In the end I bought a fan heater which did the job but expensive to run and cuts out after a while.
I couldn't do bugger all for for the jets freezing up which they did quite often!
Dreading this winter!
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The only thing I am doing right now is saving a little by each week and my aim is to have enough 'slush' money to enable to the put what I should earn each week into my house bank account for 16 lost full days work each winter. This for me equates to around 4 weeks work.
Its just cold weather, we will get it again...so like having the right clothes and boots...prepare...
Cheers
Dave.
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How about the water droplets left on the cleaned glass, does this freeze?
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hot i use l5 boller
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But does hot water not freeze quicker than cold?...even hot water systems are not a complete magic wand to 'beat' a freeze.
When it is very cold...sometimes it's just better to call it a day and put the fire on and watch some cartoons.
Attached are a couple of pictures I took this past winter of 10% mixes of water and methanol which once on the glass started to freeze at about -7..another point to note is that the spray off water that is in the air...seemed to get on my face and make it sore...
Cheers
Dave.
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sorry pingu but you're wrong to an extent , last winter i only had water freeze twice once on a porch and once on conservatory always the coldest places on house as most don't have heating in them hose froze when laid in deep snow when pumped was switched off only lost one days work last winter -7 allday ISOPROPANOL WORKS check other forums
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I am ok with poles and water in containers keeping warm, as I have a outside boiler in out house they can go in there. But my worry is when on real real cold mornings, water freezing peoples windows up etc.... Barry
Mostly this is resolved by starting later when the temperature has climbed a bit. However, last January/February there were times that it stayed below freezing all day so I lost work time.
I bring anything vulnerable into the flat such as poles/brushes/reels and I run air through my van system by removing the feed pipe from the tank (no RO in van) so that the pipes and pump are empty. Even if there is a trickle left in there, at least it allows room for expansion if the little bit left does ice up.
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Pro...the amounts that you have quoted simply cannot work...it's has nothing to do with my opinion and everything to do with physics...I am not trying to start an argument with you and I'll agree to disagree but 25ml in 25l in minus 5...it does not compute..it is just far too little an amount to make any difference.
There is a difference between when temps drop for short periods of time and when sub 0 temps continue over a period of time...which is what occured here in mainland Europe with one particular area in The Netherlands experiancing -20 as an overnight temp an regular day temps of -4 to -7.
Remember the temps that I had here in Holland over a 21 day period were sufficient to freeze a 500l tank in my garden solid....in order to get my pump out I had to free it with a sledghammer....and that was a week after when the temps were above freezing.
I will not pursue this thread any further but suffice to say..physics will prove the numbers.
Respectfully
Dave.
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Even a hot system will not guarantee you can continue work in sub zero temps,.. though it is a real big help!
My personal approach is:
IPA helps very little against freezing, BUT it does increase cleaning power imo which is handy on the very cold days when my heater is turned down to minimum cause I don't want to crack the glass.
I always carry salt (25kg bags) in the van and sprinkle footpaths before I start work. I don't want to be blamed/sued if someone slips on ice. This slows down the work, but it has to be done.
My van is insulated, and I put an electric heater in there overnight when the temp is going to drop below zero.
My RO and static tank are in the garden at the moment, but they will be moved into the shed and insulated before the winter. Perhaps a 2nd heater in the shed too,..
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no prob's pingu dont want cause ill feeling i canonly go off other info and my own experiences