Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: derek west on August 02, 2009, 01:42:39 pm
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has anyone who's gone vat registered noticed an increase in commercial client's, i'm struggling to land the big jobs and wondering, if i was vat registered it might look more professional to the com client, and i might increase my quote to job ratios.
no doubt i'll be vat registered eventually (well i hope so) but i know i can go vat registered early if i thought it would benefit my chances of com work.
just a thought, i know its hard to answer but your thoughts on this would be appreciated.
derek
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Derek,
I very much doubt that not being vat registered makes any difference at all to a companies buying decision.
Don't forget, if you go vat registered early, that means you have to charge your domestic customers vat too and that will cost you sales for sure, or at least it will put the price up by 15% which will make things tougher in winning over domestic clients. Plus, there's all the extra paperwork, vat inspections (where your books have to be perfect and any mistakes made are subject to interest from the day you made the mistake) and other hassles which are to be avoided until you have no other choice.
Simon
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must admit, i don't fancy all the hassle and accountants expenses, but just wondered if it made a difference converting com clients.
i suppose i just need to drop my price on the biggies if i wanna do em. but if i drop the price then there not really biggies in a money sense, just work wise. so do i really want them, hmmmmm.
sorry, i'm typing out load again.
cheers for the reply, duly noted.
derek
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Hi Derek
I'm with Simon and I don't think it'll make any difference. And don't forget some commercial businesses aren't vat registered. After all-you're not! Yet!
The only thing I can say is that the longer established you are the more likely you are to get the chance to quote for commercial work and so on the law of averages you will feel that you are picking up more (in terms of numbers, not necessarily percentage) jobs.
The only other observation I can give you is that there may be more commercial enquiries around as like domestics for some it'll be cheaper to clean rather than replace. The good thing is that is you do a good job these clients are likely to stick with cleaning in the future rather than continually changing.
Roger
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i'm okay with the £200 to £500 com jobs, i usually get them, but ive quoted about 5 biggens and got no where with them, trouble is, the bigger the place, the more chance your quoting to the monkey rather than the organ grinder, which is not good for me as i'm good at selling my self. if ya catch my drift. i'll just keep plugging away then, might try a few meet and greets (business clubs), see if i can drum up some business that way.
cheers guys, sounds like vat reg makes no diff.
derek
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Some companies like you to be vat registered it shows some type of professionalism, never lost a quote because I wasn’t.
Len
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Never found that being VAT registered has any effect on sales.
We quote net of VAT to commercial customers & inclusive on the domestic side. The fact that we perhaps charge 17.5% more, domestically, than a competitor who is not registered has never been an issue. (Fortunate this year to be netting an extra 2.5%)..
Queried a facilities manager of a multi national for whom I have cleaned carpets for a number of years, as to the three most important criterias for opting to use us. Reply: 1) Quality of work. 2) Reliability. 3) Realistic price. VAT was totally irrelevant to him - and why shouldn't it be?
Derek, You set up in recent times. Mid range T/m plus all the trimmings probably nice new van etc. Add up all the VAT you paid out HMCE for that & wouldn't it be nice if you had had all that back from them :)
Doing quarterly VAT returns is really a walk in the park. You have to keep records for your normal accounts, so whats the big deal
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how many years have i got before i lose getting that vat back, anyone know?
derek
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If your not registered you won't get it back. Think if you register within a few months of setting up you might have been able to reclaim.
Not sure exact time scale but certainly not that extended. Ask your accountant
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It used to be 3 years but I'm not up to date on that. Regarding not getting the very big jobs may be because of just price, I had a head office of to quote for and before I did quote the person showing me round said that a company from Birmingham had already quoted the job at £300 a day and they would use 2 TM's and get it done on 1 day approx 600 sq metres, I just said if they have any problems with quality to give me a call but I couldn't compete.
Shaun
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i had heard it was 3 years, cheers shaun.
derek
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Derek,
Do you mean if you register now can you claim back vat-able items from before you registered.
If so, almost certainly not.
Simon
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Simon
Yes you can.
When I joined the flat rate scheme about 2 years ago it was just after I'd bought my Ninja and I was able to claim back the vat even under the flat rate scheme as you can claim back vat for capital items.
Roger
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On the flat rate scheme I believe it is two years. When I registered for vat over 25 years ago, the rule then was, you could reclaim the vat on any capital expenditure still in possesion, no matter how long since it was purchased.
Dave.
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No Dave , I'm pretty sure there is a time limit.
Why did you de register ?.
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think i'll ask me accountant ???
derek
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Take a look at the following:
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/start/register/purchases-before.htm
You could still be in luck Derek
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Derek when you put your quote in for the biggins are you just putting on your paper work: areas to be cleaned , prices , time to complete ? or adding the extra separate bits of paper work that suits like to see?
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Though no longer not vat reg still ask for a vat receipt, just in case!
Len
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You can claim back any vat paid in the 3 years prior to registering. You do have to have the vat reciepts to back it up.
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Does that double negative mean you are registered for VAT, Len? In which case you need that receipt ;)
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Your sharp today Paul ;D
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Shaun are you telling us that the other company would take 2 days to clean 600 sq metres with two tm/s charging £300/day , but that they would probably do it in a day so costing £300 (50p a sq metre) With 2 tm's they could get that done in less than 3 hours surely .
Derek are you quoting the same price per sq metere on the big 'uns as you would do the smaller ones ?Why not reduce the price per sq metre for the big ones . Saying that I have just quoted the walkways for 8 floors from £1200 to £675,which will take maybe one and a half to two days. I am happy to take that money for the time it will take to do the job .
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Paul
Thought it was a treble negative, ;) still like a vat receipt, ;D which could prove positive depending 8)
Len
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2 people using 2 TM's in 1 day BUT the logistics were up to the first floor and loads of desks and chairs with no separate area to put them it was like a call centre and very dirty, I would have done it in 2 days, they could have done it in 1 with 2 TM's but it was the near 200 mile round trip for £300.
Shaun
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dave
i quote per day it will take me but cos i'm not sure how long exactly i slightly over quote just in case, i suppose as i land bigger and bigger jobs i'll get more confindent with how long it will take me so my prices will get lower. if that makes sense. i think pricing is something that comes with experience. something i lak at the moment, but i'm getting there slowly.
derek
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I think if you can work out how many metres you can do in 1 hour as an average that is the best advice I can offer and obviously it does depend on soiling and furniture.
I'm not one for commercial work I do a few but I charge per metre, I don't expect to get them but sometimes I do I really like domestics.
Shaun
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Derek, you might look a lot less professional to a commercial customer if you just wander round and take a guess! Being seen to measure up might be the difference. I use one of those sonic things with the laser dot, gets a few giggles and a bit of banter when you walk round the office pointing it at things!
VAT is no big deal for bigger companies, they claim it back. VAT might be an issue for smaller commercials who aren't registered.
I've been registered from day 1, never been knocked back for a £115 quote where they would have accepted it at £100. You just get used to it and as long as you sell with confidence it's irrelevant.
Just done one today, typical case, my quote was 102 and she was getting it done by her usual guy for 55. I smiled and excused myself :)
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yeah jim, i just wander round saying, "oooo a danno luv, it'll cost ya, that colours a dear one luv, now iv it a bin in red carpet, a got a sale on four reduns"
coarse i measure up. i don't just pop me ed round the door ffs.
i measure, i test backing for bitumen, i fill in a form for stainage etc....
i then fill it all in on comp and email and post. add a few benefits etc... and still don't get the biggies.
tut at you for thinking i just walk in and throw a figure at em.
derek
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Sorry I'm missing something, I could have sworn you said you quote per day...
oh yeah you did :)
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i do the above, then guess how long it will take me.charge my day rate but quote it at room size. then send the quote. simples.
note to self, must be more specific for jim.
derek
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I love my little laser gadget makes quick work of measuring up.
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The problem with bigger jobs is that they tend to be extremely competitive. There are lots of companies that just do large commercial jobs and have the equipment and manpower to do them very quickly indeed. Price and speed over the job are big factors on big jobs, they just want it done, fast, so if you're going in with a portable or small TM you're going to take much much longer than someone with a big twin or triple capable machine, plus, the padders can be quoting silly money and extremely fast turnarounds.
Sometimes big jobs just aren't worth the hassle. And large companies are rarely that loyal and tend to buy on price and price alone, it's a mine field.
Simon
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Simon has hit the nail on the head with the size of some jobs it goes above the percieved budget also when the contract cleaners get in the price falls as well as the companies that go for national contracts.
Shaun
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a whole witherspoons including upholstery £360. i suppose thats what i'm up against. top boss isn't interested in quality, just wants it cleaning.
derek
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A to B used to Wetherspoons and the company was owned by Mr.Gotts who sold it a few years ago.
Shaun
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I wonder how does a large company quote for these large jobs esp if there using labour at min wage.
Id say most here will want £40-£70 per hour and if you can clean on average 50sqm an hour then thats around £1.40 per metre for £70 an hour on a Saturday when these things get done.
I shy away from big ones as I just dont like it or working after hours.
Mark
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I quoted £490 for some work in a Premier Inn and the young lady was visibly shocked at the price. They asked me to quote as their usual company had increased their charges. Apparently they were still about half my quote.
Would have taken two of us around 5 hours
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I think the really big jobs go to contract cleaners at real cut throut prices , a c/cing specalist can't compete, but then they just get it spot cleaned by some one on min wage.
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2 of you for 5 hours ar £490
would'nt start the engine up!
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colin
you couldn't afford to start the engine up for that price, you buy mr saunders half a new car every year don't ya? ;D
which means bob has alot less overheads so quite possibly makes more money.
i could be wrong though, often am.
derek
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I know Colin quite well and he's not just Bright by name but by nature also, he did his marketing apprenticeship years ago, money only going in the coffers now.
Shaun
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exactamundo my friend ;D ;D ;D
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Colin always likes to brag about how much money he's making. Doesn't contribute much else, but hey, what the hell? ;D ;D ;D
Simon
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:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
you've made me miss count now you silly man, that has really upset me
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:'( :'( :'( :'(
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Colin even makes more money than me and he's always finished for 2-3 pm, what a life.
Shaun
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Shaun if you had a garage sale and sold off all the wifes shoes I bet you could retire to the sun :P
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shaun
are you vat registered?
derek
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Derek don't disturb him now he's counting all the shoes and rubbing his little hands ;)
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finished ;D
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LOL ;D
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I would have been done at 1.30 if it was not for timewaster quotes (price shoppers) landlords, renters, price shoppers the bain of my life wish they'd get it im not cheap! ;D
oh and those want you to come round to look one stain! cus they "dont want to pay all that money if its not coming out"
"No I will not" I said, as if i'm going round to say "oh no it wont come out" then drive all the way home for no money, cheek!