Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: dazmond on August 01, 2009, 02:39:14 pm
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ladders,bucket,scrim,mop and blade and thats it.they were the days.simpler and less stress?less overheads?less money?thinking should i enter the world of hoses,poles,pumps etc.not many using them yet up north{salford]regards to every one
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ladders,bucket,scrim,mop and blade and thats it.they were the days.simpler and less stress?less overheads?less money?thinking should i enter the world of hoses,poles,pumps etc.not many using them yet up north{salford]regards to every one
yes driving round in a car not a van come back from work and park car on drive get ladders off end off working day. wfp come back from work still working at 7.30 pm ho how simple the old days were.
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why you still working at 730?
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Counting his money.
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dave plenty of work then.im thinking less strain on knees.been climbing ladders day in day out since i was 22 im 37 now so 15 yrs.ive an open mind regarding WFP,NOT GETTING ANY YOUNGER
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yes, probably, although I started wfp but learnt trad skills since. You only have to read the posts on here each evening to realise wfp brings with it a whole list of things to go wrong or break, whens the last time you heard of a ladder snapping in half or someone with a hole in their bucket ? lol. ;D
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yes, probably, although I started wfp but learnt trad skills since. You only have to read the posts on here each evening to realise wfp brings with it a whole list of things to go wrong or break, whens the last time you heard of a ladder snapping in half or someone with a hole in their bucket ? lol. ;D
Hi cybersye you have hit the nail on the head there m8 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Stay as you are dazmond. I got a wfp setup around 15 months ago, never got on with all the hastle so went back to ladders on about 80% of my work. Wfp has safety benefits but all this that its sooo much faster is a load of bull.
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Counting his money.
;) ;) ;) ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D
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birdymiller most of my work is round a v.upmarket area.i was thinking about my big detached and leaded and geogian houses and the add ons,conservatory roofs,fascias,gutters as all these are advertised on my business cards.these can be a pain off ladders.also save my knees a bit so im not using ladders ALL the time.i already use 30foot extension poles on some of my high windows but a bit slow sometimes using these even with a vise versa and/or swivel squeegy.any advice welcome regards
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In my experience mate wfp is alot more hastle than trad and even though some may argue wfp is not shed loads faster than trad. If your round is made up of these large houses then switching to wfp may work for you. My round is made up of smaller houses in compact areas, where i can park up in the morning and not return to the car til dinner or when i finish for the day. Moving the van, refilling, changing batteries and untangling hoses slowed me up alot. I do have the odd house which is larger and do some of them wfp so i can see that it might benefit you. Im 36 and been window cleaning for 14 years so our knees should be in a similar state. I still manage to play football every sunday and train in the week. Get a cheap ro and a backpack and use your pole and you will be off and running for less than £350. Dont go blowing £1300 like i did and then realise it doesnt suit your round.
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birdy ive also got 2 wks work of v.compact stuff on 2 big estates mainly 3bed semis.think ill keep them trad.dont need a RO at 35tds do i?van mount better if a big house doing fascias etc i would have thought.thanks for ur reply pal
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i think you need to get your water down to below 15 tds ;)
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dave plenty of work then.im thinking less strain on knees.been climbing ladders day in day out since i was 22 im 37 now so 15 yrs.ive an open mind regarding WFP,NOT GETTING ANY YOUNGER
Just a babe in arms ;D - I'm 62 and just gone full time WFPing after just doing weekends for 5 years. You've got plenty of years left in you yet - good luck :)
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hi john good luck to u as well mate.i love my job trad but want to be able to maybe fit more work in and go for them awkward houses and charge accordingly ;D
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yes if ime honest
but i do love wfp 8)
not the hassle that can sometimes go with it :'(
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Counting his money.
;D ;D
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Less stress with trad, spent less (ALOT less), earned less.
But if i hadnt of gone wfp i wouldnt have 2 vans now, big round and work that i would never of done off ladders.
It is alot faster sorry birdy, dont care what you say.
I will have done £x amount on windows with wfp and im ready for home time, ill think ill do 5 more and go and do them no stress. Off ladders 5 more houses when youve had enough is a killer lol.
End of day if your happy with trad stick with it. Costs alot less, customers arent checking every window asking you whenyou are going to get a squeege out to dry them.
But if you want a bit of a easier life on your legs and be able to cope with your rounds easier go wfp.
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With wfp you could have cleaned 2 houses faster than me on my ladders but by the time you have refilled or moved vehicle i would have caught you up so how can it be so much faster
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No.
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With wfp you could have cleaned 2 houses faster than me on my ladders but by the time you have refilled or moved vehicle i would have caught you up so how can it be so much faster
believe me birdy i used to think like you
then i tried it and after there was no going back
even though i still do a bit trad
there is no doubt in my mind its much faster
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I tried wfp for a while and found it to be constant hassle both in terms of complaints and equipment problems. After a few weeks I then had permanent neck ache to add to it all.
The last straw was when I was cleaning the windows of a 1st floor flat and the lady on the ground floor complained about the water on her recently cleaned windows. I offered to go over her windows for nothing as it would take minutes but then the lady on the 1st went nuts because she was then paying for her windows to be cleaned whereas the lady downstairs wasn't.
All I could do was pack my gear up and walk away but as I was collapsing my 6 week old pole one of the clamps snapped. That was the 3rd time and I just decided there and then that wfp was too stressfull and not for me.
So I went back to cleaning windows trad style with a difference. I mainly clean the windows of the super rich. Thank god for gg4.
I was also suprised just how many seriously wealthy people had had their windows cleaned previously using wfp and would only have their windows done trad style in future.
Cheers
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I tried wfp for a while and found it to be constant hassle both in terms of complaints and equipment problems. After a few weeks I then had permanent neck ache to add to it all.
The last straw was when I was cleaning the windows of a 1st floor flat and the lady on the ground floor complained about the water on her recently cleaned windows. I offered to go over her windows for nothing as it would take minutes but then the lady on the 1st went nuts because she was then paying for her windows to be cleaned whereas the lady downstairs wasn't.
All I could do was pack my gear up and walk away but as I was collapsing my 6 week old pole one of the clamps snapped. That was the 3rd time and I just decided there and then that wfp was too stressfull and not for me.
So I went back to cleaning windows trad style with a difference. I mainly clean the windows of the super rich. Thank god for gg4.
I was also suprised just how many seriously wealthy people had had their windows cleaned previously using wfp and would only have their windows done trad style in future.
Cheers
the weather mans back :)
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don,t ya love posts like this keep them coming lads we will get to the bottom off it soon
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With wfp you could have cleaned 2 houses faster than me on my ladders but by the time you have refilled or moved vehicle i would have caught you up so how can it be so much faster
believe me birdy i used to think like you
then i tried it and after there was no going back
even though i still do a bit trad
there is no doubt in my mind its much faster
Ive done both and i must be a very fast trad cleaner cos wfp isnt loads faster than me. Clean tops of frames then side of frames then scrub glass then give a couple of really good rinses then couple of quick sweeps of the cills as opposed to couple of mops up and a quick blade of and cill gets a wipe. Even if you dont do all frames wfp it still takes just as long to clean a houses when you take into account moving reeling tangling. Wfp has a place but dont make out to all these new guys that havnt tried it, it will be a breeze and they will be able to earn loads more because wfp is so fast.
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;D
the weather mans back
Hi Gary. Yes, I'm still passionate about the weather. As for being back, I've never really been gone. I moved from Brighton to London - to Whitechapel in the East End which is nothing other than a litter ridden, rude, filthy dirty cess pit dump of a place that bears absolutely no resemblance whatsoever in the slighest microscopic way to the TV soap.
The problem was I had some good work in Brighton which rapidly escalated and I ended up doing 15 hours days. It wasn't the work, it was the driving - 6 hours a day 4 to 6 days a week so by the time I got to look on the pc, that's all I used to do.
I've just bought a flat in Brighton so I'll be an unusual window cleaner in that I've got 2 homes and work in both areas.
That's another thing about wfp, around here (Whitechapel), using wfp is nothing but a nightmare because of parking problems and getting near the property. The wardens usually claim not to speak English and are rotweilers plus you get tickets issued by camera. At least a ladder can be carried a few hundred yards.
Cheers
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Yes but moving from top windows to next to next in an instance, not positioning ladder going up coming down moving etc.
Not knocking trad, i did it for long enough lol. just saying it is quiker with pole. Far quicker.
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With wfp you could have cleaned 2 houses faster than me on my ladders but by the time you have refilled or moved vehicle i would have caught you up so how can it be so much faster
believe me birdy i used to think like you
then i tried it and after there was no going back
even though i still do a bit trad
there is no doubt in my mind its much faster
Ive done both and i must be a very fast trad cleaner cos wfp isnt loads faster than me. Clean tops of frames then side of frames then scrub glass then give a couple of really good rinses then couple of quick sweeps of the cills as opposed to couple of mops up and a quick blade of and cill gets a wipe. Even if you dont do all frames wfp it still takes just as long to clean a houses when you take into account moving reeling tangling. Wfp has a place but dont make out to all these new guys that havnt tried it, it will be a breeze and they will be able to earn loads more because wfp is so fast.
hi birdy
over the course of say 3 months you will find you are not behind with your work
and then you realise perhaps its worth all the hassle
even with all the hose tangling ;D
perhaps i should of said safer instead of quicker, both apply
you are welcome to come along with me for a day or two
i will not try to convert you but show you how i work
and i have been doing this job over 28 years
regards
mike
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This is my very point mike, the biggest positive of wfp is the safety factor. From there things go downhill. Thanks for the offer but after dabbling with the pole for the past year i am confident where it works on my rounds and where it is a hindrance. In 28 years you must have seen alot of change in this business?
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dazmond
With a TDS of 35 you DO NOT need to consider a RO unit, a DI only system will be fine. That's a lot less hassle to begin with. A twin ( 2 x DI vessels ) is the most economic way to go with a DI only system. It couldn't be more simpler for you to set a whole system up from scratch without the need for an RO.
People will argue all day about the pros & cons of WFP. The truth is, it's a very good method, with the right equipment & used in the right circumstances BUT it's not a total solution. It will clean some windows perfect & others far from. It will be twice faster than trad on some work but slower on others, there is just no black or white with WFP I'm affraid.
You will soon work out which work benefits from WFP & which doesn't, use it to your advantage where you can & trad the rest, it's as simple as that, like con' roofs- you'll never trad one again!
Do not be conned into buying an RO though, trust me, you do not need one. If you do go wfp, I'll give you all the info you need on setting a twin DI system up, it's very simple! ;)
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This is my very point mike, the biggest positive of wfp is the safety factor. From there things go downhill. Thanks for the offer but after dabbling with the pole for the past year i am confident where it works on my rounds and where it is a hindrance. In 28 years you must have seen alot of change in this business?
tell me about it ::) ;D
there are part of my rounds where i still use the ladder
i just use what ever suit s the job
but i do prefer the pole system over all
and luckily so do the custys ;D
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dazmond
With a TDS of 35 you DO NOT need to consider a RO unit, a DI only system will be fine. That's a lot less hassle to begin with. A twin ( 2 x DI vessels ) is the most economic way to go with a DI only system. It couldn't be more simpler for you to set a whole system up from scratch without the need for an RO.
People will argue all day about the pros & cons of WFP. The truth is, it's a very good method, with the right equipment & used in the right circumstances BUT it's not a total solution. It will clean some windows perfect & others far from. It will be twice faster than trad on some work but slower on others, there is just no black or white with WFP I'm affraid.
You will soon work out which work benefits from WFP & which doesn't, use it to your advantage where you can & trad the rest, it's as simple as that, like con' roofs- you'll never trad one again!
Do not be conned into buying an RO though, trust me, you do not need one. If you do go wfp, I'll give you all the info you need on setting a twin DI system up, it's very simple! ;)
I didnt know the guys tds at the time i suggested him getting a cheap ro, maybe you werent referring to me but trust me this is the point of my posts so that more shiners are not conned into the wonderful speed of wfp
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dazmond
With a TDS of 35 you DO NOT need to consider a RO unit, a DI only system will be fine. That's a lot less hassle to begin with. A twin ( 2 x DI vessels ) is the most economic way to go with a DI only system. It couldn't be more simpler for you to set a whole system up from scratch without the need for an RO.
People will argue all day about the pros & cons of WFP. The truth is, it's a very good method, with the right equipment & used in the right circumstances BUT it's not a total solution. It will clean some windows perfect & others far from. It will be twice faster than trad on some work but slower on others, there is just no black or white with WFP I'm affraid.
You will soon work out which work benefits from WFP & which doesn't, use it to your advantage where you can & trad the rest, it's as simple as that, like con' roofs- you'll never trad one again!
Do not be conned into buying an RO though, trust me, you do not need one. If you do go wfp, I'll give you all the info you need on setting a twin DI system up, it's very simple! ;)
I didnt know the guys tds at the time i suggested him getting a cheap ro, maybe you werent referring to me but trust me this is the point of my posts so that more shiners are not conned into the wonderful speed of wfp
No, not reffering to you birdy but there are many (who haven't a clue) who would advise he get an RO!
Actually, I agree with many of your points, It's the magic wand syndrome! ;)
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Cheers mac. I have work that i couldnt do on my own unless i had wfp, it definately has its place and until something comes along that allows you to clean from the ground that can clean every window to a good standard, you dont waste loads of water, you never have to refill or move your van and you never get tangled it will be of use.
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Cheers mac. I have work that i couldnt do on my own unless i had wfp, it definately has its place and until something comes along that allows you to clean from the ground that can clean every window to a good standard, you dont waste loads of water, you never have to refill or move your van and you never get tangled it will be of use.
now i would be interested in that ;)
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If my round consisted of bungalows and 3 bed semis without conservatories and all easily reached windows from a two section ladder then I would never have bothered with wfp.
However its not, and the reason I have most of my work is because I can safely and easily clean very high windows and difficult buildings that a trad cleaner could not do. And for that reason the work I have commands a higher price and takes me less time and means I work less hours to achieve the same wage.
The downside though is that wfp has meant a hefty investment for me. A decent van, the initial cost of all the equipment and its maintenance, water bills, more in diesel etc. add to that the fact I live in a first floor flat in a road with parking in serious demand and no dedicated parking space being wfp has'nt chilled me out but it has given me the opportunity to become self employed and earn and build a round far quicker than i would have done trad.
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yes, probably, although I started wfp but learnt trad skills since. You only have to read the posts on here each evening to realise wfp brings with it a whole list of things to go wrong or break, whens the last time you heard of a ladder snapping in half or someone with a hole in their bucket ? lol. ;D
Funny you should mention it but a W/C nearly died near me a few years ago because his ladder broke. It was an old piece of rubbish that should have been thrown away years before.
As for the question of "was life more chilled before WFP?". Yes it was but only because I couldn't afford to put the heating on ;D
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Ladders don't last for ever. I have never seen it but I have heard of metal rungs developing cracks.
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WFP is much more stressful , but when your brother has fallen off ladders next to you 2 weeks off work an constant pain, you relise the benefits,SAFETY FIRST!
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I was alot slimmer before wfp :-\ :-\ :-\
Dean
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i found that when i fell from a ladder and had 3 pins in my foot , and being told i had a 70% chance of having a fixed foot .in other words not being able to walk again ,quite stressful.but luckily that didnt hapen.
so my answer is ,i found wfp a god send .,despite its maintenance
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i found that when i fell from a ladder and had 3 pins in my foot , and being told i had a 70% chance of having a fixed foot .in other words not being able to walk again ,quite stressful.but luckily that didnt hapen.
so my answer is ,i found wfp a god send .,despite its maintenance
Same here mate,
I had 5 pins in my ankle 4 yr ago and theyre still there.
Also broke both of my feet too :o :o :o
Dean
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well i must confess something.
when i converted to wfp three years ago i swore i would never go back to ladders....but my brother was way behind his work and asked me to give him a hand, but on ladders......no way i said......anyways he says i can do the bottom flats on the ladders while he does the tops...ok...easy......did a full days work traditional and loved it, got my old muscles moving again and felt as if i was actually working, anyways the next day he says to me i can give you an easy run of tops and bottom flats if you want.....ok i will give it a go.....did all the 50 flats in one day (got me 200 quid in cash for it) and came home knackered, but for some odd reason i felt that i had actually done a hard days work, best bit was i looked in the mirror the next day and hey presto my beer belly had shrunk rapidly.......dont get me wrong i aint converting back to trad anytime soon but if he wants me to help him again then i will have no probs doing it. ;)
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I think the way things are with all this wfp we will all look like pop i on the top half and tellytubys on the bottoms . ps sorry about the spelling guys ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Wfp is a pain in the bottom.
Every house or so I have to get air out the system.
I've got through 4 batteries, and my current one is flat by 11.30ish.
On with the jump leads...
Broken countless poles.
Leaks in hose get me wet.
Connections splitting.
Varistream doing as it pleases and "varying" the flow.
Back and forth to the van to turn it up or down. >:(
The list goes on, and and grows every day...
But...and it's a big but...I'd still rather it than up and down ladders, scrubbing windows by hand and getting repetitive strain again. ;)
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This isnan excellently worded thread! Gets right to the essence of why we do what we do.
It's made me think hard about job satisfaction & I've come up with why trad can feel more rewarding:
1) there is nothing to think (worry, same thing) about apart from applicate, squeege, admire reflection.
2) you walk straight to the job & get on with it. No anxiety/frustration bout tubing runs.
3) no mechanical failure worries.
BUT...... You always want to earn more! Which is why most of us converted.
So how do we achieve the same satisfaction we had with trad?
1) double up with mechanical bits so if it fails, you're back working in 5. ( I've found pump issues the worst. & have now found that the quad (4 chamber) flojets are brilliant. They have temp cutouts, never block with bits & have the. Quick release O ring ports. I keep a spare right alongside so changeover is seconds)
2) keep the tubing runs simple with clever parking. ( the quad bike has really paid dividends here cos parking anywhere is not an issue)
3) don't fall into the trap of going full pelt! I did, and I lost the appreciation of how much easier wfp canbe. You don't gainmuch in productivity but lose a lot in chill factor! Keep reminding yourself that Its so much easier than ladders so enjoy it!
4) make small improvements to your setup, that quicken your rate without you actually, physically upping your tempo. ( a good examle is electric rewind reels)
Wfp can be fun( especially with a quad bike!). If something gies wrong, analyse it & beat it by making sure it don't happen again. It's not a mistake, it's a way of showing you how to improve!
Kevin
www.lifeonaledge.co.uk