Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: AuRavelling79 on July 26, 2009, 11:07:08 am
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Over the last few years I have successfully raised my prices every other year on my work until this year when with the fuel prices dropping and recession hitting I did not feel it was wise to do.
Now, Ewan has made me think and I am wondering what would be the effect if I were to bite the bullet and raise some more of my custies to a £10 minimum?
I am thinking of my more compact areas particularly.
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I reckon you will come out of it with more money and less customers.
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I reckon you will come out of it with more money and less customers.
agreed and another cleaner on your round
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I reckon you will come out of it with more money and less customers.
working smarter, not harder.
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Dont worry about other window cleaners, there are over 28 million proprties in the UK, anyone can find 2-300 properties at the prices you want.
My Ideal scenario is to have less than 100 customers, currently i have about 600 and about 20 of that 600 of them pay me 80 % of my turnover.
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As stan says by putting up your prices and loosing some, may be all your customers to another cheaper cleaner. Look at the wider picture by gaining a couple of quid a house you could end up loosing alot. Once you let more competition into to the market the prices will fall, keep a monoploy and look after your customers and gradually raise them. Put them up when we are not going through the worst reccession for many years. All this talk of being busy fools and this is how i run my business so if they dont like it they can lump it, makes no sense. Be satisfied that you have enough work, earn good money and can adapt your business to carry on running in a reccession.
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Have i read that wrong Dave,so why don't you drop 580 customers and only lose 20% off your income?
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Hi Birdymiller you are from Rotherham ? what areas you clean
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Have i read that wrong Dave,so why don't you drop 580 customers and only lose 20% off your income?
obviously the twenty customers that make up 80% of daves work are big accounts and therefore would be a major blow if he lost them, by keeping the 580 lower paying jobs he would always have something to fall back on and keep a wage coming in for himself, as his business grows more i am sure he may sell some of these smaller accounts on as they can become a bit of an hastle,
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Yes , what Trevor said.
Also as I grow i take on more staff It is good work to put new staff on, also it is hard letting go. maybe one day.
Another thing, 20 % takes up about half my time the other 80% takes up the other half.
One good marketing lesson would be to get rid of half the staff and get rid of the 80 %, but i feel an obligation to my staff hence why we keep it.
In fact just checking through my figures it is more like 70/30
If I went solo again, I would sack all my houses and just keep the 20 customers, plus some smaller commercial accounts.
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I see,didn't realise that there was staff involved!I did my mental arithmatic on the presumption that you were solo. :)
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Has anyone had a major negative response after putting most of the prices up on their rounds?... e.g...losing lots of customers.
I am printing a flyer to post with my "your windows have been cleaned today" card....... and putting the prices up on all houses which i believe are slightly underpriced.
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but there is a limit to every job. You can't put your prices up every six months just because you've got plenty of work. There has to be a ceiling, a line where customers will tell you to go forth and multiply. Some of these business ideas are rather flawed at times.
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I had a customer ask me to reduce the price recently due to deflation. I started to reel off the reasons that I wouldn't do it and he started laughing. He's a decent guy and was just pulling my leg because I haven't increased the price for 4 years. He then said he was going to pay an extra £1 a clean from next time because he wanted to make sure I kept calling.
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Hi Birdymiller you are from Rotherham ? what areas you clean
Mainly aston, but have rounds in whiston, ravenfield, killamarsh and beighton.
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Is this one of your personality tests Malc? I think we all pass.(behaved as expected)
What i find, in relation to the question and the eighty twenty rule etc, is that all businesses come to ressemble ourselves, large expansive thinkers have better businesses than timid worrying types. A couple ot times ftp has said he is not a businessman and then done a passable analysis and suggested a good strategy- that's all there is to it.Of course you can be wrong, but providing you think and don't behave at random that is business even if you go bust.
The answer to your question on a cost benefit analysis is that it is marginal. In other words it's not going to make much difference either way.To make a difference you need to be more radical.
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The only ones I have raised so far have been the few that I'd be happy to lose. I haven't increased my prices in well over two years since I started, the reason being that up to a couple of months ago I felt I was still building my customer base, I was already earning a good wage and felt there was no need to increase. Now I have so much work I tend to overprice new jobs because I can afford not to do them. As long as I'm earning plenty I don't feel the need to put pries up. A business guide would say i'm doing it all wrong and should increase my prices every six months.
Maybe I've got so much work because my prices are reasonable, I don't know.
A fair price for a fair days work and all that.
Malc, if you raise the lowest jobs surely they become overpriced compared to the next level?
Say you raise a flat from £6 to £10 then it may be in the realms of a three bed semi - bit unfair?
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My other business is selling socks on the market. The prices i charge are the same or lower than when i started twenty years ago.There tend to be price points, my favourite being £5, other people like £2.99. So for example i sell a pack of twelve sport socks for £5 and people are happier with this than if it was £4.50. I tend to use price points in window cleaning too, such as £10.
The prices we buy the stuff in at have gone down, although this has begun to change in the last year or so.There is no business manual that tells you to put your prices up beyond what the market will bear.
There are three variables, price, volume and value. (possibly compactness has a bearing too).Expansion is the key, either buy better kit (ftp has invested in gutters), or get help.Everything else is a dead end.
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You never know with malc, the one thing he does is read people well, so it crossed my mind that he wanted to start me and ewan off again, to see how much nonsence we'd talk.
My tanks doing well by the way.
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Slump, you are right about the gutters i seem to have found a niche market in gutter cleaning rather by accident. There seems to be a fair amount of work about in my area where customers want the full works. They want their house cleaned from top to bottom - all the whites as one customer requested. I don't advertise the service other than a 'gutter cleaning' magnet on the bonnet of my van. It's a good add on, the only downside is that it's hard work and pretty time consuming.
I would ask about in your area to see what the competition are charging - you would be suprised i'm sure.
My pricing isn't settled yet I'm still probing and trying to find a level that's consistant. some are happy to pay two guys on ladders £150 for three hours work. Windowcleaners tend to shun the service because it disrupts their round.
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You keep saying you are not a good business man and then analyse things very well. My shoulders ache after i have done a gutter clean wfp.I'm not sure i dare use the slx for this.
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My other business is selling socks on the market. The prices i charge are the same or lower than when i started twenty years ago.There tend to be price points, my favourite being £5, other people like £2.99. So for example i sell a pack of twelve sport socks for £5 and people are happier with this than if it was £4.50. I tend to use price points in window cleaning too, such as £10.
The prices we buy the stuff in at have gone down, although this has begun to change in the last year or so.There is no business manual that tells you to put your prices up beyond what the market will bear.
There are three variables, price, volume and value. (possibly compactness has a bearing too).Expansion is the key, either buy better kit (ftp has invested in gutters), or get help.Everything else is a dead end.
Are you ewan?? :)
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;D
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Slump, you are right about the gutters i seem to have found a niche market in gutter cleaning rather by accident. There seems to be a fair amount of work about in my area where customers want the full works. They want their house cleaned from top to bottom - all the whites as one customer requested. I don't advertise the service other than a 'gutter cleaning' magnet on the bonnet of my van. It's a good add on, the only downside is that it's hard work and pretty time consuming.
I would ask about in your area to see what the competition are charging - you would be suprised i'm sure.
My pricing isn't settled yet I'm still probing and trying to find a level that's consistant. some are happy to pay two guys on ladders £150 for three hours work. Windowcleaners tend to shun the service because it disrupts their round.
I did some gutter cleaning yesterday and made good money, what do you tend to charge for say a call out just to empty one section - which is 90% the case, or too do all of house, i havent cleaned guttering yet just clearing, and if you are on ladders not guttervac how do you clear?? gloves?
:)
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You never know with malc, the one thing he does is read people well, so it crossed my mind that he wanted to start me and ewan off again, to see how much nonsence we'd talk.
My tanks doing well by the way.
Not at all slumps - I have a section of my round that "irritates" me a bit because I do feel the properties are a bit low in price. It is 70's ex-council housing with lots of older people and of "garden city" layout and a bit fiddly for wfp. The newer houses I've taken on I charge a tenner for but the bungalows £7.
I wonder if I should bite the bullet and go for a tenner. But then I think I may get gaps in the round which make it less cost-effective.
Perhaps I should just flog it!
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I would, i charge all council type houses £10 minimum, they tend to have more panes than a similar sized semi
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Think i will move to cornwall ;D
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i think i will too. ;)
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me and the wife were down there last month, loved it...especially st ives 8)
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hi i am new to this forum but agree with some of thew others we have a minimum of £10 for any standard house and we have put the prices up every year for the last 3 years to get to this price. don't forget its your life if you still use ladders is it worth it for less than a £10 ::)
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Over the last few years I have successfully raised my prices every other year on my work until this year when with the fuel prices dropping and recession hitting I did not feel it was wise to do.
The fuel prices are slowly sneaking up again now
Now, Ewan has made me think and I am wondering what would be the effect if I were to bite the bullet and raise some more of my custies to a £10 minimum?
Cannot see a problem with this, unless there is major unemployment in these areas
I am thinking of my more compact areas particularly.
Whilst I agree with what the others say about more money less customers, i guess because you have asked that you are a bit worried to raise the prices. Why not compromise with yourself, if you have a property on for £8.00, why not increase to 8.50 (6.25% rise) and again next year to £9.00.
If you do 20 a day at £8.00 now (160.00) then with just 50p on would be £10.00 extra per day. £50 extra per week £2000.00 over a year, not a bad wage rise in a credit crunch situation
For a really good custie 50p rise should not be a problem.
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hi i am new to this forum but agree with some of thew others we have a minimum of £10 for any standard house and we have put the prices up every year for the last 3 years to get to this price. don't forget its your life if you still use ladders is it worth it for less than a £10 ::)
Sorry but no such thing as a standard house :)
You life is priceless so money doesn't come into it ;)
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I have a £10 minimun charge .................. I just havn't told my custies yet. ;D ;D
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mine were due to go up last year, i held off
i dont buy the " replace your "less well priced " work with better paid work " line
as your less well priced work could be nice work, they could be as loyal as they come, where some better priced work could dump you like a hot potato if things get tight
if your work is ok priced and you increase it at set intervals ( inline with inflation ) then the work will allways be ok priced and worth doing
i know, its pretty low risk and i will never be rich, but hey, i have a nice life because of it
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LOL, sounds like your to scared to make any changes, but hey you have a nice life!
My bro in law has shockingly low priced work but its on his estate he owns his own home and is well off so why shou;d he upset his custies and have a minimum £1o charge
You spout your own opinions as fact you dont have the same circumstances as everyone else , your desire and ambition and business acumen are ok, but you need to understand some people window clean for stress free life not to chase the ££
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LOL, sounds like your to scared to make any changes, but hey you have a nice life!
My bro in law has shockingly low priced work but its on his estate he owns his own home and is well off so why shou;d he upset his custies and have a minimum £1o charge
You spout your own opinions as fact you dont have the same circumstances as everyone else , your desire and ambition and business acumen are ok, but you need to understand some people window clean for stress free life not to chase the ££
spot on ;D
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LOL, sounds like your to scared to make any changes, but hey you have a nice life!
i have increased my prices in the past though, so its not as clear cut as " you are scared to raise prices "
i am of the opinion that if its not broke, why try and fix it
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LOL, sounds like your to scared to make any changes, but hey you have a nice life!
My bro in law has shockingly low priced work but its on his estate he owns his own home and is well off so why shou;d he upset his custies and have a minimum £1o charge
You spout your own opinions as fact you dont have the same circumstances as everyone else , your desire and ambition and business acumen are ok, but you need to understand some people window clean for stress free life not to chase the ££
spot on ;D
i concur
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probley costs me 10p to clean a property
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im not daft enough to try and work out the price of fairy used,electric to heat water or cost of petrol to drive 2 miles to clean 15 houses,or wear and tear on ladders scrim and applicators ;D ;D
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I think you think everyone window cleaning is retarded, people know what expenses they have dude, and they earn enough to cover them and live on the rest,
They didnt need business degrees to work that out
business is simple you buy something or provide a service at a higher ratio than your costs the resulting difference is PROFIT
easy peasy
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it must be easy Ewan because some cleaners are right cabbages ;D ;D
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I think you think everyone window cleaning is retarded, people know what expenses they have dude, and they earn enough to cover them and live on the rest,
They didnt need business degrees to work that out
business is simple you buy something or provide a service at a higher ratio than your costs the resulting difference is PROFIT
easy peasy
the thing is with window cleaning, its fairly simply
keep overheads LOW
thus more profit
so your many charging 5 quid to clean a house has really low overheads and earns the same as some1 who charges 10 quid a house but has to pay the payments on his van / WFP system etc etc
it really isnt rocket science is it ? ?? ?
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No not everyone! ;D
Your getting very predictable ewan - yawn
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No not everyone! ;D
Your getting very predictable ewan - yawn
time for bed Sean
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No not everyone! ;D
Your getting very predictable ewan - yawn
dont forget he has met some real big boys in the window cleaning world ::)
oh and they all think that CIU does not represent them ::)
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i have to pop out to do a little job
if the cat gets too far out of hand, give him a kick for me
thanks
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I know, i am off going offline now i was just on while i was updating george
its just one big willy wave with some on here - "i wont do anything for £10 minimum, bla bla bull crap - and i cant be bothered keep arguing with someone who doesnt talk straight
Is aldi any less successful because it isnt marks and spencers??
some business models are different - strange ewan doesnt understand that
anyway had enough now
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probley costs me 10p to clean a property
That figure seems unrealistic to me.
Mark
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I make very little attempt to keep my overheads low. I want the best equipment, and i pay £500 pa for adverts and about £300pa for promotions.
Matt says keep overheads low, thus more profit. I believe in spending money to make money.
Both strategies work, but both have faults.
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If it wasn't for this forum, I wouldn't know that most of my houses are under priced, I would carry on being happy with what I earned.
As I finish another £6 job, I can't help but think about so many of you with your £10 minimum.
I should be earning over £200 a day, I would be perfectly happy with my £130 a day if it wasn't for some of you buggers.
Seriously though, I guess most of you know who would stand a price hike and who wouldn't, we get to know our customer pretty well over the years.
I have just dumped 11 x 4 bedroom detached houses in one close, most of them with cons. Why? because I assumed that none of them would pay the right price, I would have had to charge £15 and they were only paying £10 bi monthly. I have never charged enough for conservatories, the ones without were paying £8.00 and they did return a good hourly rate, but I dumped the lot.
I think some of us older guys, that worked trad in the past were happy to charge a bit less per window for cons, because we didn't have to climb.
Ewan, I have read your replies to this post and I think your dead right with most of them. I'm just an old softy winding down his round, but there's still a part of me that resents the fact that some guys are getting 50% more for doing the same amount of work, but that's my own fault for coming on here.
If I had kept away I would have been no wiser.
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If someone already owns a car and probably some ladders, apart from the initail purchase of a bucket and squeegee,the biggest overhead is petrol and as Stans round is a compact one,hes not far wrong is he.
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probley costs me 10p to clean a property
That figure seems unrealistic to me.
Mark
why
im not daft enough to try and work out the price of fairy used,electric to heat water or cost of petrol to drive 2 miles to clean 15 houses,or wear and tear on ladders scrim and applicators
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probley costs me 10p to clean a property
That figure seems unrealistic to me.
Mark
why
im not daft enough to try and work out the price of fairy used,electric to heat water or cost of petrol to drive 2 miles to clean 15 houses,or wear and tear on ladders scrim and applicators
Because , using the above example of 15 houses 2 miles away, having a running cost of £1.50 for a days work is unrealistic, it must cost your more than that to run the vehicle you use to clean windows with, and thats before you add on all the other costs involved.
Mark
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if i didnt clean windows i would still run the same car,window cleaning puts about 3,000 miles a year on the clock
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Ewan, how do you post as Davo? Do you need two laptops in one house?
Whats happened to the other guy you come on as - what's his name Lsd or something. I'll have a rummage see if I can find him, Give me ten minutes.
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No not everyone! ;D
Your getting very predictable ewan - yawn
dont forget he has met some real big boys in the window cleaning world ::)
oh and they all think that CIU does not represent them ::)
Yes, but you have one of the biggest egos in the trade, but thats it ;D
thanks, i think its a sign that i feel i have made a good job of what i do and have achieved, thus i am proud
i also think its because i enjoy trying to help others and keep it real, i feel proud of that aswell ;)
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Ewan, how do you post as Davo? Do you need two laptops in one house?
Whats happened to the other guy you come on as - what's his name Lsd or something. I'll have a rummage see if I can find him, Give me ten minutes.
I remember - LSA, have you retired him? He used to pop up when all else failed. ;D
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if i didnt clean windows i would still run the same car,window cleaning puts about 3,000 miles a year on the clock
Stan if ur happy ur happy, my only point is that some businesses dont have a true appreciation of costs. My viewpoint is that the cost of doing business also includes keeping the workers/owners alive.
My daughter used to have a goldfish which cost more to run every week than your business.
Mark
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if i didnt clean windows i would still run the same car,window cleaning puts about 3,000 miles a year on the clock
Stan if ur happy ur happy, my only point is that some businesses dont have a true appreciation of costs. My viewpoint is that the cost of doing business also includes keeping the workers/owners alive.
My daughter used to have a goldfish which cost more to run every week than your business.
Mark
i know what you are saying but i had a car when i worked in a factory so its not really a buiness cost
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if i didnt clean windows i would still run the same car,window cleaning puts about 3,000 miles a year on the clock
Stan if ur happy ur happy, my only point is that some businesses dont have a true appreciation of costs. My viewpoint is that the cost of doing business also includes keeping the workers/owners alive.
My daughter used to have a goldfish which cost more to run every week than your business.
Mark
i know what you are saying but i had a car when i worked in a factory so its not really a buiness cost
When you worked in a factory it wasnt, but it is now. Not all its costs, because its not solely used for business.
Mark