Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: wire1078 on July 14, 2009, 04:51:18 pm
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Just thought id post this just to see who would be the best company for a wfp system.A friend of mine bangs on all the time about ionics saying there the best, and everything they supply is crash tested etc etc.But when i compare there systems to other companies system there are far dearer
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Purefreedom all the way.
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YWCS what internal damage have you caused lol
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why not ionics
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If safety is your main concern, then I would say that Ionics make the best 'fully' crash tested range of systems - Oh, they are the only ones :)
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Too expensive and too messy, I have heard from a few people that the fitting of their system was quite shabby for what they paid out.
most RO system do the same job, so why pay 4-5 times as much just to have the branded one. to me the area that the money needs to go to the most is the pole, get the longest and stiffest pole you can afford.
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all these window cleaners who have there diy systems are they covered by there insurance companys if they crash
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I do,.. but I'm fussy who I sell to.
If it's not being fitted in a Rolls or Bentley, shop elsewhere. ;)
Pure freedom systems look very nice, and are great value for money too.
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i would say pure freedom are the best value for money. i've recomended them to a few guys who now have their systems. There is something about a thermopure that i still crave but just can't seem to part with cash for one, two or ....three :o ;D
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Ionics make by far the most superior systems and as it has been pointed out they are the only ones to have them crash tested so safety is very high on their agenda.
Strange though as I personally thought that most window cleaners would have safety high on their agenda's as well but this just isn't the case and thinking that strapping a fully loaded 650 Ltr tank to the floor is Safe just shows they have little regard for their own safety.
I'm sure most WFP systems work fine enough but Ionics are in a class of their own and not only look smart but are very professionally fitted and give outstanding performance, thats not something Ive heard thats something Ive experienced and well worth every penny.
I know people on here will say they are overpriced but when you have experienced one to other systems then you will see for yourself.
thats why some people choose to shop at Waitrose and M&S and some choose to shop at Netto and Lidle there's quality bacon that stays the same size when cooked and there's cheap and cheerful bacon that shrivels up to nothing when cooked.
like everything in life what you get is what you pay for
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all these window cleaners who have there diy systems are they covered by there insurance companys if they crash
mine is because it is not permanently fixed in the vehicle so classed as cargo
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Stephen, I know you get what you pay for in most cases, but why spend 4-5 times as much, the customers not going to give 2 hoots what the inside of your van looks like.
plus that crash test was only done at 30mph, what would be the result at 50 or 70mph, I dont think the tank would stay bolted down.
th
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That crash test was an advertising ploy.
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Stephen, I know you get what you pay for in most cases, but why spend 4-5 times as much, the customers not going to give 2 hoots what the inside of your van looks like.
plus that crash test was only done at 30mph, what would be the result at 50 or 70mph, I dont think the tank would stay bolted down.
th
I'm afraid your wrong there mate as last year I picked up a £900 job ( 2days work ) of a German contractor who approached me after seeing me set up at another job and said he had seen WFP systems before but nothing as professional looking as my Ionics and also gave me excellent feedback after I finished the job.
as for the crash test well whether its done at the speeds you claim its STILL DONE unlike any other company's.
and if it ever happens and god forbid it wont but if so and it saved my life then its worth every penny.
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That crash test was an advertising ploy.
Expensive ploy! ;D
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That crash test was an advertising ploy.
ha ha ha don't tell me like most things you heard that from someone else ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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If it sells the system its not expensive.
that test would not of cost as much as a TV advert!!
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course its advertising, they are using the safety aspect to sell the bloody product!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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ok analogy time lol
What's the best car in the world?
porsche?
Bently
Merc?
it isnt about how fast they go, because we have speed limits, just like the maximum speed a window cleaner can clean.
It isnt about looks as the main reason for the invention of the car was to transport people from one place to another.
IMO its down to reliability. how often does it need repairing.
Safety is another issue. just because it wasnt fitted by ionics DOES NOT mean is not safe!
in my eyes vehicle mechanics have better ergonomics of a vehicle than water purification engineers.
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ionics systems are the same as any other they all do the same job. you are paying way over the odds just for the name.
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ionics systems are the same as any other they all do the same job. you are paying way over the odds just for the name.
says the man with a crocodile on his t-shirt :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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Basically it is down to these factors
What budget do you have?
How high is safety on you list of priorities?
there is nothing wrong with a DIY system, the end product is the same as the expensive companies, they still produce water with a TDS reading of 000.
if you have a proper cage for the tank and have it fitted by a professional, it will be safe.
Why not follow a couple of guys around from off here and use their kit for a day or half a day and then make your own mind up.
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Ionics sell good systems, shame they aren't value for money.
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Hi got two fitted buy pure freedom they are engineers, I had the frist one checked over buy a local lorry body building company and they said it was over engineered, well pleased! Ionics have only tested it on one van! what about the other 20 vans that are on the road? as mattinlester says add ploy. I recon the people who all that dosh out may be a case of 'the kings new clothes' ( a fool and his money easily parted)
Mart
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The "best" is a subjective term really. I have a system that is strapped around the chassis, has no electronic flow controller as it uses a "return to tank" valve, has no port on the outside of the van (I prefer it that way), and, although professionally fitted by people who know what they are doing, does not have the glitzy looks of an Ionics system. It is the right (best) system for me because I can self maintain it easily, I can attach a patch piece of hose to a connector under the van bumper allowing me to position the hosereel anywhere within 10 metres of the van (very useful if I need to park near obstructions), I can whip the leisure battery out very quickly and easily to change it over (I alternate two leisure batteries on a split charger as they are a bit run down now and I don't like to throw batteries until they are totally knackered).
This is the best system for me. I prefer practicality to looks. I don't care what the customer thinks of my system. I'm the one who has to use it - not them. It suits my pocket too. In spite of what I've said, it does look reasonably pro too.
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thanks to everyone for there posts on this subject,it sounds like if you want to pay the name then go with ionics,but if you are a business person you will get a system alot cheaper that does the same job
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thanks to everyone for there posts on this subject,it sounds like if you want to pay the name then go with ionics,but if you are a business person you will get a system alot cheaper that does the same job
Nothing actually wrong with Ionics if you are happy to pay top price. The systems look good and work well. Personally I would cut out the colour change resin and use a refillable vessel though.
At the moment, I'm sticking with what I have as my priority is to reduce my debts.
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I have an Ionics Thermopure system and i have a hot water system from waterfed pole in Grantham.
Whats the difference?
Well the most obvious to someone that knows what an ionics system looks like, is the thatcham tested clamps. Another is the shiney bended frame at the back that the fancy cover sits in.
That is the only difference between the two systems, oh and of course my newer system was half the cost. I also got to design how i wanted the system, ionics were not interested in what i wanted, well they were to a degree, but the attitude is this is our system and thats it. I could not change to have the ports under the vehicle, i had to have a hole cut in the side of the van, which on an expensive van i did not want doing. They were, last year anyway, not offering frost protection or a timer, i have both on my new system and an added blower for the cab, they only had the summer/winter switch. The heater is a webasto, the same as ionics install, i went for the 9kw so enough hot water for 2 poles not 1. They were also not interested in fitting a couple of fixed reels, had to be portable. Was i happy with Ionics, yes at the begining, when i had a lovely new system installed. But the after sales was not any good, and last year the sales was not much cop either. I then joined CIU, looking at alot of posts regarding pure water, different poles on the market ect, i have saved hundreds and hundreds pounds, if not a thousands. I bought a 4040 RO and resin and produced water from home and pumped it to the van instead of using the Ionics filtration, did i notice any difference in the clean, no. Does my new system not clean as well as my Ionics system, er no. Does my system not look as fancy as my Ionics one, maybe just a little, does my newer system have crash test clamps, no but its still bolted through the chassis and IMO is still as safe. But in the main, i have got a system now that i wanted, i work from my van how i want to, not working how someone wants you to work.
I was probably a little brainwashed when i first got into window cleaning, Ionics marketing is brilliant, and they can afford to market very heavilly. But all in all, as long as your system is fitted well to the van, has a tank of pure water, a pump and some hose, it will do exactly the same job as a very expensive nice looking Ionics system.
Obviously my opinion on owning an Ionics sytem and an other.
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if you say to anyone "cash is no object, what system would you get?" everyone would go for ionics whether they admit it on here or not.
Nuff said.
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But in business cash is the object, why spend several times more than you need to.
People who over spend in a business WONT have a business for very long, mark my words.
Most part about running a business is being responsible with money!
I dont't mean cutting corners. I mean shop around and be a shrewd businessman.
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But in business cash is the object, why spend several times more than you need to.
People who over spend in a business WONT have a business for very long, mark my words.
Most part about running a business is being responsible with money!
I dont't mean cutting corners. I mean shop around and be a shrewd businessman.
The question was "Who makes the best WFP systems"
NOT "who makes the best WFP systems with cash as the object"
And by that measure, it is Ionics.
That is all.
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if you say to anyone "cash is no object, what system would you get?" everyone would go for ionics whether they admit it on here or not.
Nuff said.
No I wouldn't - and that is honest. That's not intended to slate Ionics systems. It's just that when it comes to the finer points of working a certain way, I like be able to make those decisions myself. Just minor details really but, over time, I have developed a way of working that feels right for me but would be a bit trickier with an Ionics systems (and many other systems for that matter).
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drwindows that question was put to businessmen, i.e. you and I.
So its a business related question.
If he meant "cash was no object" he would of said when asking the question.
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To clarify, if I had unlimited money, the system I would want would not be exactly like any manufacturer's system. This is because I have a way of working and would build the system to accommodate that way. As things currently stand, manufacturers have their various systems and we have to work around anything that isn't exactly in accordance with the way we work.
So, back to my original assertion that the best system (for everybody) does not exist because each person likes to work a little differently.
My system would have a built in kettle as standard and a toilet that can make pure water from human waste :) .
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yeeeew.
I wouldnt want to be the person changing the filter on that system. ;D ;D ;D
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If I had unlimited money I wouldn't be cleaning windows but in the spirit of the discussion I would: (In red is what I actually have and am using now.)
Buy a top of the range VW transporter with five seats and a lifting tailgate. (Fiat Doblo)
Have a custom built insulated 500L tank in it fitted by an engineering company. (400L fitted and insulated by me)
Another custom 150L tank and heater for "hot" work. (Which could also be a cold reserve)(I don't have this yet)
An SLX 35ft pole (already got one!)
A 100m reel of microbore GOT
A varistream GOTA 100PSI pump GOT
I would make my water at home with an RO that would be capable of filling a 1000IBC tank overnight to store it in. (600L IBC)
That's it!
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I have a 400l system; an original OTT system; two blue round 200l tanks. Old probably but it's never let me down ;D
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I know who id chose from the names mentioned here, good bunch of guys at Purfreedom, plenty of no nonsense advice, they do hot systems too but dont push it onto you. They listen to what you want, offer a few sugestions and leave it to you to make up your mind. nothing seams to much trouble to them.
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if you say to anyone "cash is no object, what system would you get?" everyone would go for ionics whether they admit it on here or not.
Nuff said.
Actually I'm led to believe the Tucker Pole fit out is of a v high standard.
DIY all the way. The money belongs in MY pocket thank you.
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Omnipole systems are very good and excellent hot water add on
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My Omnipole hot water add on is still going fine 20 months after getting it.
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I know who id chose from the names mentioned here, good bunch of guys at Purfreedom, plenty of no nonsense advice, they do hot systems too but dont push it onto you. They listen to what you want, offer a few sugestions and leave it to you to make up your mind. nothing seams to much trouble to them.
I totaly agree with you dan I have a system from Pure Freedom they dont push you in to any thing, they listen to what you want then advise you, they are a great bunch of guys, I heard that they are doing a hot system that fits on to there existing systems, will be asking about.
As for the safety was told by a garage that my system was bolted throught the chais and reinforsed to spread the load upon impact so my van in their oppinion was safe.
I asked them about crash tests on vans etc they told me that all new models vans etc had to be crash tested, what each different model I said, yes i was told just because it a ford transit it doesent mean a renault trafic would be safe as in the case of your tank system just because it passed a test in your van it doesent mean that it would pass in another, it would cost thousends of pounds to crash test every van they told me, I told them of a company that had had a crash test done on a van and it had passed a test their reply was if fitted in the same way in the model that was tested, ok thats the only van model that would be safe so the certificate they hold would be usless for any other van unless they tested a different model then they would hold a different cert for that van so on
and so on.
So that answerd my question want a safe fitted tank buy a van that a company has had crash tested, dam it I carnt find one Im getting a 2009 Ford Transit and no bodys crash tested one yet fiddle sticks what shall I do well I will have to go back to Pure Freedom to have mine fitted because they did such a good job on my other van and I was told it was safe
Back to the question who makes the bet WFP system PURE FREEDOM in my oppinion they made me happy so when i am happy so are my custys because i have never had any trouble with my great system and always been on time to do my work so never lost customers because i havent turned up :)
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I think Ionics are to wfp what Everest were to double glazing 30 years ago.
To the public who knew no better and who had not seen these double glazed units before they were "the best". They were on the telly! And they were good. But they were twice the price of everyone else. Even local firms who did just as good a job.
Once many people had bought double glazing then they got wise and Everest lost a lot of market share.
When Joe ex 9-5, now redundant with his redundancy cheque and a desire to work or ex trad boy who wants to get straight on with wfp turn up at Ionics they get trained and wowed and given a a "gilded-lily" solution and off they go happy as can be.
When they get on here and realise that there are lighter poles and less expensive filtration set-ups and so on they get more informed when it comes to their next purchase. (I hope)
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Ive had my Ionic pro 6 - 700ltre system 18 months now, Ive had no bother with it at all, just fill it up daily, salt backwash once per week and bobs your uncle. I love it.
But the point is I've never tried any other system and I may love them just as much, it doen't matter what system you use as long as the results are the same and you are happy.
Why is there always the 'Ionic's' debate - who cares what Ive paid or not - its my business and as long as I'm happy - in my opinion - money well spent.
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If the question was '' you can have a £1000 to build your own system or £6000 to spend on a manufactured one'', i wonder how many people would choose the £1000? Facelift do a nice one,Gardiners have one coming out,Brodex etc etc. Hang on, i'll fumble around in my mums garage for six months knocking one up then go and get a fishing rod!