Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Feen on June 18, 2009, 07:16:32 pm
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I have had a student helping me this week. it's the first time I've done this and wonder what you think is the best and fairest way to pay someone like this. My guy is very pleasant, hard working and presentable. I'm weighing up all the stuff involved such as he's using my equipment to clean my customers' windows, traveling in my van. So far I've paid him by the hour whilst working, nothing whilst traveling between jobs. What do you do and if paying by the hour like this, how much per hour? Or do you pay so much per day regardless of the work done?
Thanks
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Your not paying him whilst travelling between jobs?
Although you pay him by the hour.
Sounds like you want the best of both worlds at his cost.
I walk if I was him.
That needs sorting straight away.
I doubt you'd have a leg to stand on in a tribunal.
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You carn't not pay him well traveling ??? that wont last five mins.
plus you have to pay mim wage anyway
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Also, it sounds like it could encourage him to drive without due care on a day when he was a bit skint. If he had an accident and someone got hurt or worse, that could get you into deep doodoo as well as him if a prosecutor wanted to turn the knife.
I know it was in the USA but some years ago, someone who was a victim in an accident, succesfully sued a pizza delivery company that promised delivery within a certain timeframe. They succesfully argued that the promise caused their driver to drive in a careless manner and contributed towards the victim's injuries.
Mind you, that was America. They sue you for farting too loud over there.
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That made me LMAOnot paying him getting from job to job blimey have you got a stopwatch in the van lol. ;D ;D ;D
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I wouldn't pay him at all if he's a student, 'bart time they did some real work anyway. It should be his pleasure to oblige!!! ;) ;)
Just tell him he's on works experience! ;D
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My guy is very pleasant, hard working and presentable.
Are you sure he's a student? :o
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i guess this is a cash in hand type of thing ? ? ? ?
how about a % of the work he does ? ? ? ?
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tite ass u must travel along way betwen jobs.get your hand in your pocket. bet you can peel an orange in your pocket. ;D ;D
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its not his fault that your round isnt compact
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It's no wonder I don't post on here much now. What a load of rubbish replied. Matt & Dave - you didn't ask how much I was paying him when he was working. Quite well imo. Or how much of the day was spent working and how much travelling. For example, first job today 20 mins to job, 3 hours working, 15 mins to next. Leap- he was a passenger in my van !! NWH - read above. As usual you don't read the post, just react. Matt - this was what I was what I was thinking and asking advice on. What percentage do you suggest. Stan - who said it wasn't compact? If you mean by that, not having to move the van all day, then no it's not that compact. But hey, this is the real world.
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When I employ anyone its down as casual labour, I pay them £50 per day for that I expect a minimum £120 of work from them.
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It's no wonder I don't post on here much now. What a load of rubbish replied. Matt & Dave - you didn't ask how much I was paying him when he was working. Quite well imo. Or how much of the day was spent working and how much travelling. For example, first job today 20 mins to job, 3 hours working, 15 mins to next. Leap- he was a passenger in my van !! NWH - read above. As usual you don't read the post, just react. Matt - this was what I was what I was thinking and asking advice on. What percentage do you suggest. Stan - who said it wasn't compact? If you mean by that, not having to move the van all day, then no it's not that compact. But hey, this is the real world.
i guess the first matt you replied to wasnt me
as for the 2nd reply to matt ( i guess me ) , you will need to work out your overheads, what you want to earn off his back ( so to speak ), if i was a worker i would be expecting 70 % of the work i do ( 30 % for your costs and overheads and a little profit )
just my opinion, i expect people will rubbish it and say " you dont know anything as you dont employ "
when i used to have some1 doing part of my round ( my estate as it happens ) i used to get between 10 & 20 % per job, but that was only because it was my estate and the guy would park his car outside my house and walk around ( thus had no overheads )
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Thanks Matt, First sensible reply, which stacks up fairly well with what I've been doing. Today I reckon I got £80- £90 worth of work from him and paid him £40. After this week, I know he is OK and can do the job and so I'll pay him better. But, I also know that if he can get a job that is 12 hour shifts he'll go for it, because I can't give him that much work.
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When you say the first sensible reply, do you mean the first one you have some element of agreement with, the first that hasnt offended you or the first that hasnt implied youre going about this all wrong?
You see, as I see it, youve said in reply to my response that I havent asked how much you pay him whilst working on job, well, you cant justify one wrong with a right. Its wrong to not pay him for a portion of the day even if he isnt actually being productive. You want his time, you have to pay for it; regardless.
If you wont listen here I suggest you ask someone whos qualified to answer you, may I suggest the CAB?
Im sure their response will be sensible AND will dispute your opinion.
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Lots of Matts ;D Matt with the smiley campervan thanks. I'm not getting too hung up on this as it is a temporary situation. Said student will go back to uni. He has been a great help and as long as things go on I'll pay him well. The question (which I was ridiculed for) was how best to do it. I'm not going to pay top dollar to someone who has never cleaned a window before and may walk off after day one.
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OK Matt @ Oakley. I take your point, but consider this. On the way to the job, I earn nothing. I only earn when I'm on site, which is why I am paying him on the same basis. I could pay him by the hour or day from when I pick him up until I drop him off. I would pay him a lower rate than I do by paying him when he's working. This was the point of posting this question. What's the best way and the fairest way to do it? Bear in mind this guy wants some work, paid cash and then will go back to uni. Say I pay him £50 per day and it rains so hard we can't work for half of that. He's earning regardless and I'm not !
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Theres no such thing as a perfect world.
IMO thats one of the downsides of employing.
Which SHOULD be counterbalanced by the work he produces when he can work; hopefully so the eventual outcome is you gain financially and so does he. Its swings and roundabouts.
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Ok Matt @ Oakley, let's draw a line there. You have you opinion and what you don't seem to be able to grasp is that I have shown the guy how to clean, with my equipment and it's short term. He is NOT a long term employee. He is here now, may be gone tomorrow. He's a great help, not an employee. End of story.
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wont last long, you should either pay him a day rate better than £40 or pay him a hourly rate of more than min wage to start.
It may take time to get him up to speed but when you do it will be worth it, tell him were he can go (what he can earn ) when up to speed.
Has for pay him 70% omg you may has well not bother employing
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You have put you don`t pay him for driving between jobs or did i read it wrong,you also say he`s using your equipment well i would say that was obvious seen as he`s working from your van.The way you`ve put it you come across as a real tight git lol,if you want someone good and reliable there`s no getting away from it you have to pay well and show some respect and you might get a bit back.Saying your not paying him when driving from job to job is a joke.
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I saw the cook in McDonalds today using their griddle and not his own,what a cheek. If you have to drive a distance to jobs then they should be priced accordingly. Wind your neck in and don't insult him.
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shocking attitudes to hiring staff nowdays. friend of mine applied for a window cleaning job, offering minimum wage. when he went for the interview they told him how many jobs they expected him to do a day. it was a joke. any body a bit clever would take the job do it for a few months then undercut by a quid and take the lot. the customer still has the same window cleaner and a bit cheaper. that was my advice to him.
but i spose he would be using their kit so the wage is ok.
if i worked in a shop i am sure i would expect a deduction for wear and tear on the till buttons.
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tite ass u must travel along way betwen jobs.get your hand in your pocket. bet you can peel an orange in your pocket. ;D ;D
I bet goes the long way round hahahaha
You obviously dont have enough work to employ if you are having to do that, and dont know how or what to pay,,,, hes not a roman soldier you cant give him part salt, he needs money :) And to be on your books etc
I started a lad last week, never cleaned a window in his life, i still gave him £50 a day, and when he gets quicker it will go up, end of, he is an employee not a slave, you really need to incentivize people, not think oh hes a student he doesnt wanna be here anyway...
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Give it a week and you`ll need a plaster on that blister you`ll have on your thumb from that stop watch lol. ;D ;D ;D
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I would have him work 3 days a week £150 per week, he can clean 2 days a week and drop flyers on the 3rd day.
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Thanks Matt, First sensible reply, which stacks up fairly well with what I've been doing. Today I reckon I got £80- £90 worth of work from him and paid him £40. After this week, I know he is OK and can do the job and so I'll pay him better. But, I also know that if he can get a job that is 12 hour shifts he'll go for it, because I can't give him that much work.
your welcome
When you say the first sensible reply, do you mean the first one you have some element of agreement with, the first that hasnt offended you or the first that hasnt implied youre going about this all wrong?
Oi, watch it
its not often my posts get called a " sensible reply " ;)
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was he refering to your post or mine lol ;D
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Thanks Matt, First sensible reply, which stacks up fairly well with what I've been doing. Today I reckon I got £80- £90 worth of work from him and paid him £40. After this week, I know he is OK and can do the job and so I'll pay him better. But, I also know that if he can get a job that is 12 hour shifts he'll go for it, because I can't give him that much work.
your welcome
When you say the first sensible reply, do you mean the first one you have some element of agreement with, the first that hasnt offended you or the first that hasnt implied youre going about this all wrong?
Oi, watch it
its not often my posts get called a " sensible reply " ;)
:P ;)
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lol
Well if you was on one job for 3 hours and 20 mins driving why not pay him a little extra for the time traveling if its only 20 mins? you can't do much traveling throughout the day if u have big jobs like that.
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Wait until you employ someone on a PAYE and you have to do the NI stamps, wages and everything else like sickness payments if he/she is off work, holiday pay, etc.
If you are desperately seeking answers about how much to pay a casual worker perhaps you should take time out to compact your round or increase your prices for jobs that are spread out to make it worthwhile before you consider employing someone else in the near future.
You need to inform your accountant who will in turn inform the tax man of your casual labourer even if he is a student. There are forms to fill out for him even if you are paying him cash method in his earnings. It's pointless employing someone illegally because the whole point of employing is to expand your business in time but you can't if your employee doesn't exist on paper to the taxman.
Most importantly before you profit financially from his hard work, you have an obligation for his safety whilst he is at work as he is your employee and you need to have employers insurance for him to cover yourself.
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One last thing, if you are a father , how would you feel if your son or daughter was working for a company that fiddles the tax system. If your son/daughter had a serious accident you are in for one hell of a nightmare with the courts trying to seek compensation for the illegally employed worker.
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It's no wonder I don't post on here much now. What a load of rubbish replied. Matt & Dave - you didn't ask how much I was paying him when he was working. Quite well imo. Or how much of the day was spent working and how much travelling. For example, first job today 20 mins to job, 3 hours working, 15 mins to next. Leap- he was a passenger in my van !! NWH - read above. As usual you don't read the post, just react. Matt - this was what I was what I was thinking and asking advice on. What percentage do you suggest. Stan - who said it wasn't compact? If you mean by that, not having to move the van all day, then no it's not that compact. But hey, this is the real world.
It seems that, in this case, posting "rubbish" means that either someone posts something that is incorrect because you don't provide enough information or that someone simply disagrees with you.
If I had to avoid paying someone for travelling time, I'd rather not bother employing.
Like you say, maybe it's as well you don't post much.
You post rubbish and then accuse others of just that.
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Wayne I employ guys sometimes, when I am running behind and they are available.
I employ them as casual staff and they are on my books as self employed so they are responsible for their own NI and tax.
Less headache for me lol
and my insurance covers me to employ 3 staff for a maximum of 45 days each per year. or 1 guy for 135 days.
I also have employers liability too. I pay £580 per year for both.
Matt
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Wow a lot of opinions here!
With casual work I have always paid them a % of gross. I think if you are going to pay by the hour you should pay from leaving home to returning home or base. If that means a slightly lower rate than now so be it.
I once as a teenager was paid by the hour AS WE WORKED! Literally! As each hour went by he gave me my £2.00 if we had a break he would start his stopwatch after the break. Personally I felt a bit cheated. I would rather have been told at the end of the day you have earned £15 than had it in dribs and drabs, it was a while ago mind.
Even with casual work they need to feel valued and not being paid for all of their time if on an hourly will make them feel undervalued. If however you are paying £20 ph while working he is earning well, but again, you must have come to a conclusion somehow about his rate. I would work out how and therefore pay %.
Look at 20-25% gross. See how that works next time he is with you.
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to avoid a day rate and then it rains , you should consider an hourly rate £7 - £10 per hour ( inc sitting in the van ) , some days you will earn more than others . if it rains and you go home after 4 and a half hours , then thats what you pay him for ! you could also get him to canvass / leaflet on some of his days / rainy afternoons just to keep him interested and earning something .
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OK Matt @ Oakley. I take your point, but consider this. On the way to the job, I earn nothing.
Did you not calculate travelling time in your costs? ???
I only earn when I'm on site, which is why I am paying him on the same basis. I could pay him by the hour or day from when I pick him up until I drop him off. I would pay him a lower rate than I do by paying him when he's working. This was the point of posting this question. What's the best way and the fairest way to do it? Bear in mind this guy wants some work, paid cash
aaah , hush hush hey, then no point in asking for advise if he is not legally on the books
and then will go back to uni. Say I pay him £50 per day and it rains so hard we can't work for half of that. He's earning regardless and I'm not !
If on the books you could have had a contract stating no work no pay