Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: C.C.S. on June 17, 2009, 09:04:14 pm

Title: wfp video
Post by: C.C.S. on June 17, 2009, 09:04:14 pm
i've been window cleaning over 2 years now.i started to clean using wfp couple of months ago.
still learning and not sure about my way of cleaning.
any comments suggestions are welcome .thanks
P.S.the windows i'm cleaning used to be done trad and it's first time when using wfp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hs2RF_oTrik
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: jouk45 on June 17, 2009, 09:08:34 pm
is that a sl mono brush your using, if so, would it not be easier rinsing on, nice video
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: R W C on June 17, 2009, 09:12:07 pm
Yer its a sl bush, id say the brush is at the wrong angle it needs undoing and lifting about 2 notches on the angle adapter.
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: C.C.S. on June 17, 2009, 09:13:13 pm
yes is an sl brush and i'm rising
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: jouk45 on June 17, 2009, 09:14:09 pm
it looked like you missed the top frame, was it to avoid air vents
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: trevor perry on June 17, 2009, 09:15:03 pm
it must be my eyes but i couldnt see any water being used ???
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: Milltown Cleaning on June 17, 2009, 09:15:41 pm
hah i had thought about doing this the other day to check was my technique right as i was being paranoid!!

the technique seems pretty similar to mine, but i did notice the missed top bit frame. there a reason?
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: elite mike on June 17, 2009, 09:16:07 pm
how much water you using a day

pole looks very flexible
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: C.C.S. on June 17, 2009, 09:25:19 pm
i'm not doing the top frames as done it before and was dissapointed.anyway before changing to wfp i cleaned the top frames on nearly every house i have .the pole is an xtel fibre glass a bit heavy but ok
i'm trying to keep the bristles on the brush downwards rather than upwards so they can't touch the top frame.
i'm not using more than 150 l in a busy day but mostly i'm only doing the upstairs for the moment.
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: jouk45 on June 17, 2009, 09:35:37 pm
i always do the top frames, if you dont, the bad weather will do it for you, and bring the dirt down,
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: C.C.S. on June 17, 2009, 10:03:40 pm
it must be my eyes but i couldnt see any water being used ???
sorry about the quality of the video,but trust me there is water coming out of the brush
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: cherubs cleaning on June 17, 2009, 10:10:34 pm
not being funny i found the way you cleaned them windows shocking




jerry
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: C.C.S. on June 17, 2009, 10:12:13 pm
why?what i'm doing wrong?
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: cherubs cleaning on June 17, 2009, 10:17:22 pm
it is just my opinion


but it jst did not look the same way i would have cleaned them


jerry
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: C.C.S. on June 17, 2009, 10:28:14 pm
i don't mind you pointing what i do wrong.like i said i'm still learning and happy to listen to someone who does it for years.thanks
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: NWH on June 17, 2009, 10:35:19 pm
Those Hybrid poles are shocking and that video just goes to prove it,the old orange extender poles were better than them.I to am not meaning to be rude but you took far to long on that window and you didn`t look like you were using anywhere near enough water,and why the brush off the glass.
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: jouk45 on June 17, 2009, 10:40:50 pm
as you said, you have only been doing this a few months, maybe you where trying to speed up for the video, one thing i can tell you is, those extel poles are to flexy, and when you try to speed up, the brush head goes ahead of you at 50mph lol batterying the sides, just take it easy, slow down a little, or even ask someone here that lives localy if you could help them out for a day, and learn from a more experience person,
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: p1w1 on June 17, 2009, 10:42:48 pm
not being funny i found the way you cleaned them windows shocking
 



jerry
why not try and explain what you mean then  ::)
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: Milltown Cleaning on June 17, 2009, 11:24:37 pm
yea those last couple of posts where just kinda unhelpful, the guy did ask for criticism - but constructive criticism. help us all to learn!!

i think the basic technique is right, though you should try and do the top of the frame. Personally i prefer to rinse with the brush off the glass aswell. maybe you could be a bit more systematic in your approach - always working in strraight lines - go around the frames in squares, scrub up and down the glass vertically and the rinse off in zig-zag motion horizontally down the frame.
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: NWH on June 17, 2009, 11:33:08 pm
All you need to do is go round the top opening vents 1 at a time that would take about 15 seconds then once you`ve done all 3 do the glass,do the same on the lower frames and glass in the same order and then finish off with a flash over the sill,the whole window should be done in under a minute.
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: C.C.S. on June 18, 2009, 12:03:54 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lswuNinQ4og
that's a different one done a few months ago.
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: wfp master on June 18, 2009, 12:13:34 am
not being funny i found the way you cleaned them windows shocking




jerry
well help him out instead of slating him.
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: [GQC] Tim on June 18, 2009, 12:15:57 am
Your mixing frames and glass.

First do all of the frame work, then do the glass. What you are doing is half of the frame and half of the glass at the same time, then dragging the brush over the window. That's a bad idea generally. Do frames first, make sure they stop dripping, then methodically go over the window in overlapping strokes. Twice horizontally over the top of the glass, then in downward strokes cover everything on the glass, then another pass horizontally over the top of the glass, then do the glass again, then rinse top of glass, then going zig zag down the glass. You can do it different ways, and even forgetting about doing the frames, but that's a more advanced technique. The above should be fool proof, if you master that, you can mix different cleaning styles depending on the need on each individual window.

Also, practise on your pole control, what shows from that video is poor pole control, the brush doesn't go exactly where it should be going, in fact it's all over the place, you need to use the pole, if you have got a bendy pole, know exactly how to use the bend in the pole. Precision is paramount.

That's just a real quick observation, its difficult through typing to convey the right technique though, sorry mate.

Here :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJMdSciKf9M&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gardinerpolesystems.co.uk%2Facatalog%2FVideo_Section.html&feature=player_embedded

That should get you up to speed, you will learn different ways in time, but that's the general idea. It's a good starting point for starting wfp'ers that video from Alex.

Also, keep an eye on the drips from any cross bars. Control the drips, and you will control the clean.
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: NWH on June 18, 2009, 12:23:09 am
Alex cleaned all those windows in under 2 minutes and it should take no  longer doing tops either,cleaning WFP this way or similar is why some of us say it`s so quick.
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: [GQC] Tim on June 18, 2009, 12:33:23 am
Alex cleaned all those windows in under 2 minutes and it should take no  longer doing tops either,cleaning WFP this way or similar is why some of us say it`s so quick.

Indeed, but I would have to say that speed always comes later, just like with traditional tools. I'd rather have a douzen beginner wfpers spend twice and long on a window, and do a good job, then 1 wfper that thinks he can be just as quick the moment he holds a pole, and hence gives wfp a bad name.
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: Sapphire Window Cleaning on June 18, 2009, 05:10:14 pm
Heres a video of my technique. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ANaArF6jQ0
How does it look guys.
I have only been cleaning with WFP for a few months.





Matt
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: steven ainger on June 18, 2009, 05:33:52 pm
your technique looks fine to me for a first clean, but miles too slow for a regular clean
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: gary999 on June 18, 2009, 05:34:42 pm
Heres a video of my technique. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ANaArF6jQ0
How does it look guys.
I have only been cleaning with WFP for a few months.

personally i would treat that window as three individual frames of glass
scrubbing each frame starting from top no problem as no vents above
then quickly rinse each frame then scrub glass afterwards across and back
top of glass once, then up and down moving across glass then rinse following water down,obviously if got bird crap on or filthy as first clean more scrubbing
and rinsing may be needed.then quickly across sill couple of times




Matt
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: Sapphire Window Cleaning on June 18, 2009, 08:19:44 pm
I usually just give the frames a quick brush, then just brush the window up and down once on the windows then rinse.






Matt
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: windowswashed on June 18, 2009, 08:53:12 pm
Customers won't appreciate hearing your brush knocking repeatedly against their window surrounds if they are in, you'll frighten them half to death, especially the older customers (lol).

Instead of scrubbing in a sideways motion, use an up & down motion to scrub because your glass fibre pole which is whippy will be more controlable for starters and won't be bashing hell out of the window surrounds.

I concentrate on scrubbing top frame first, then the side frames, then glass, then rinse just the glass with the brush left on the glass, followed by a quick wipe over the sill. Don't do anymore work than that just mentioned above as tme is money and I've found my technique.

The trouble with rinsing with the brush off the glass is that it is a strain to keep the brush away from the glass which will lead to injuries through Repetitive Strain Injury later in life and the water is not as controllable as leaving the brush on the glass in the first place to rinse, especially on windy or gusty days, leaving you open to complaints from dirty windows if the water hits above the windows on the wall above.
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: poleman on June 18, 2009, 08:54:30 pm
Your rinced the frames then cleaned the glass!! total waste of time!!
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: Sapphire Window Cleaning on June 18, 2009, 09:00:40 pm
I rinse with the brush off the glass, as there could be contamenents on the brush, like cobwebs etc.
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: windowswashed on June 18, 2009, 09:06:46 pm
I rinse with the brush off the glass, as there could be contamenents on the brush, like cobwebs etc.


If you use a flocked brush (better for scrubbing), it retains some dirt at the tip of the bristles. If you use a mono filament brush the dirt falls off the bristles so it won't be left on the glass if rinsing brush on.

Find a decent brush for your wfp and you'll be fine rinsing brush on. It will save you RSI later in life. It's easy to rinse brush off on low work but not so easy on high level work.

I've rinsed brush on for 6 years and can't understand why wc's insist on rinsing brush off (total waste of time and harder work).
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: Sapphire Window Cleaning on June 18, 2009, 09:13:32 pm
windows washed what do you have your flow controller set on, I have mine set at just over 1ltr per minute.
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: windowswashed on June 18, 2009, 09:21:52 pm
I use brushes with 4 jets and use about 2 litres a minute. Flow contol position doesn't really matter so long as you have enough water to clean the windows and aren't wasting it because you can't keep up with the technique you use to clean the windows. The more water you use , the quicker you have to work. You reach a point where you can't work any faster doing the job properly so you've found your ideal amount of water to use on jobs.
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: NWH on June 18, 2009, 09:22:24 pm
1ltr a minute is not enough by a long way that`s dribbling out,try 2ltrs a minute and then see that`s what i use and i know this because i have a flow meter that tells me how much i`m using.
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: concept on June 18, 2009, 09:28:02 pm
rinsing with the brush off the glass will cause more splashing.
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: Sapphire Window Cleaning on June 18, 2009, 09:29:25 pm
Thanks guys I will try 2ltr per minute tomorrow.
Hope it works ok.
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: gary999 on June 18, 2009, 09:45:46 pm
i always rinse just off glass cant get used to rinsing on
all these complaints about rinsing off and rsi injuries make me laugh
if we were all using universal poles at 40ft that weighed a ton i could
understand injury but the bits of string most people use as poles
cant see it myself. :)
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: [GQC] Tim on June 18, 2009, 10:19:55 pm
I rinse with the brush off the glass, as there could be contamenents on the brush, like cobwebs etc.


Cobwebs don't really seem to matter since they aren't water soluble hence won't leave spots behind.

i always rinse just off glass cant get used to rinsing on
all these complaints about rinsing off and rsi injuries make me laugh
if we were all using universal poles at 40ft that weighed a ton i could
understand injury but the bits of string most people use as poles
cant see it myself. :)

Just like ladder users wear out their knees, wfp users will suffer, even more so. It's not so much RSI I'm worried about, but artritis. Why make work harder on yourself? If you can't get used to rinsing on with the brush, try using a superlite mono brush. I rarely get any problems, brilliant brush. Go to any manual handling course, and they will tell you it's not the weight, the wear on your joints adds up over time.

ps. 1lpm is way to low, try to aim between 1.7 and 2lpm. I find 2lpm+ a bit excessive on maintenance cleans though. But if you want to work very fast, you need high flow rate.
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: gary999 on June 19, 2009, 08:45:27 am
been on many a manual handling course they only tell what anybody
generally with an ounce of common sense knows ,your more likely to wear
your joints with the repeated action of using the pole when scrubbing than
holding the brush slighly off the window to rinse which you do less often.

then again your just as likely to wear you leg joints out walking down
the street everyday, over time aging and fitness and genetics can also factor into
arthritis or rheumatism in fact i imagine you would be more likey to get in your hands from the daily gripping of the pole
most advice you get about these things are only general and not specific
to an individual.you are better off working to within your own limits whilst
also keeping yourself fit.

holding the brush slightly off the glass is well within my limits totally comfortable
with this and find im happiest working like this and highly unlikely i will
get an  injury from this

i use an :) sl brush
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: C.C.S. on June 19, 2009, 01:20:46 pm
hi guys i've been working on my technique the last 2 days.
made another movie.so let's see how is it this time.thanks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVpzTtggTKs
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: EZclean on June 19, 2009, 02:09:22 pm
its still painfull to watch bud, i'm no master ninja  :D
but you dont need to clean all the frames and rinse before you do the glass.
just the top of the frame, rinse that off, then do the glass below it and the side frames as you do the glass, the idea is to start high and work your way down.
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: C.C.S. on June 19, 2009, 02:31:35 pm
its still painfull to watch bud, i'm no master ninja  :D
but you dont need to clean all the frames and rinse before you do the glass.
just the top of the frame, rinse that off, then do the glass below it and the side frames as you do the glass, the idea is to start high and work your way down.
mind that is the first clean using wfp on those windows
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: gary999 on June 19, 2009, 02:31:40 pm
its still painfull to watch bud, i'm no master ninja  :D
but you dont need to clean all the frames and rinse before you do the glass.
just the top of the frame, rinse that off, then do the glass below it and the side frames as you do the glass, the idea is to start high and work your way down.

yep still painfull,on first cleans i personally find a good idea to
clean all frames first and rinse then clean glass otherwise i totally
agree with the above.

looks like you are wrestling a python dont worry mate it will
get better ;D
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: gary999 on June 19, 2009, 02:34:40 pm
just watched it again and the vid worked properly this
time didnt look half as bad as the first time i looked at it ;D
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: dave0123 on June 19, 2009, 09:42:36 pm
First cleans? say you would have to scrub more? if i done that on a first clean they would spot to hell.

i use a 28 foot hybird for all my work and i can control it fine i dont know why you cant control that pole? try practising keeping it where u want it over the weekend il try and do a vid over the weekend.
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: DanielUK on June 19, 2009, 10:31:05 pm
Can't find it now, but somewhere in the forums I read to clean the top frame initially and then never touch it again.  That's what i have been doing for months. 

How many WFP'ers clean the top frame every time?
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: windowswashed on June 19, 2009, 10:44:24 pm
Look at a window that hasn't been cleaned for years...where's all the dirt?.....at the top.

It's important to clean the frame at the top so the rain doesn't wash the dirt down over your clean windows after the water has been left on the glass to dry and then a heavy downpour of rain comes along and your customer thinks you haven't cleaned their windows properly.

You should spend more time cleaning the very top of frame and the first couple inches of the glass at the top and also at the bottom 2 inches of the glass as this is where any dirt gets left if you haven't scrubbed the glass properly, even on regular cleans.
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: jouk45 on June 19, 2009, 10:56:29 pm
i clean all the frames every time, this way it stops the chances of dirt going back on the glass,
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: NWH on June 19, 2009, 10:56:38 pm
On windows like that i always do the frames aswell including the top of them,you are cleaning the whole unit the wrong way round.Scrub the top opener 1st and then the side window and then go back and do the glass on the top opener then do the section on the left and finish with the biggest pane and then do the sill,that window should be cleaned in about 30 seconds.
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: Sapphire Window Cleaning on June 19, 2009, 11:09:51 pm
J&A there wasnt any vents above the windows yet you still treated the windows like they had vents.
What flow rate do you have your pump set at?
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: cherubs cleaning on June 19, 2009, 11:21:04 pm
geting better
you r still taking to long


jerry
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: NWH on June 19, 2009, 11:22:10 pm
You can still see your not using enough water.
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: C.C.S. on June 19, 2009, 11:25:30 pm
the flow is set at 3 and which video are u taliking about to?the last one ?the window has no vents but i cleaned the top frames, not on the first video tho.
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: windowswashed on June 19, 2009, 11:26:11 pm
On windows like that i always do the frames aswell including the top of them,you are cleaning the whole unit the wrong way round.Scrub the top opener 1st and then the side window and then go back and do the glass on the top opener then do the section on the left and finish with the biggest pane and then do the sill,that window should be cleaned in about 30 seconds.

I do exactly the same way as you, same amount of water (hot as well) just use 4 jets instead of 2 and I also use a swivel which I know you can't get on with.
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: Sapphire Window Cleaning on June 20, 2009, 09:52:16 am
I washed the windows yesterday with a flow rate of about 2litres per minute and I was miles quicker.
if you double the flow rate you should theoretically be twice as quick.
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: dave0123 on June 22, 2009, 08:53:48 pm
Quote
1ltr a minute is not enough by a long way that`s dribbling out,try 2ltrs a minute and then see that`s what i use and i know this because i have a flow meter that tells me how much i`m using


Thing is when using the SL brush at 2 litres per min it shoots out about 5 foot lol, am unsure if thats 2 much or not
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: Sapphire Window Cleaning on June 22, 2009, 08:57:41 pm
I like it Dave lol  ;D ;D
Title: Re: wfp video
Post by: dave0123 on June 22, 2009, 09:10:10 pm
 ;D