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UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Mike_G on May 21, 2009, 04:25:05 pm

Title: Ionic filters
Post by: Mike_G on May 21, 2009, 04:25:05 pm
Do the filters on Ionic systems need to be brought from ionic or are they standard size which can be brought from other suppliers which I expect would be a fair amount cheaper?
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: CLEANGLASSUK on May 21, 2009, 05:30:31 pm
Ionic filters are a rip off and the resin filter is crap steer well clear.
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: [GQC] Tim on May 21, 2009, 06:01:37 pm
Do the filters on Ionic systems need to be brought from ionic or are they standard size which can be brought from other suppliers which I expect would be a fair amount cheaper?

I believe they are proprietary sealed units, so yea you would have to buy them off Ionics. A fair few people change the Ionics DI for normal DI vessels due to them being so expensive.
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: CLEANGLASSUK on May 21, 2009, 06:38:42 pm
Do the filters on Ionic systems need to be brought from ionic or are they standard size which can be brought from other suppliers which I expect would be a fair amount cheaper?

I believe they are proprietary sealed units, so yea you would have to buy them off Ionics. A fair few people change the Ionics DI for normal DI vessels due to them being so expensive.
They dont change them because they are expensive, they change them because they are crap with a capital C.
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: traps7 on May 21, 2009, 08:22:16 pm
I know someone who cut it open a few inches from the end (not the middle else it hard to re-join and sags), re-filled it with resin and sealed it back up with one of those rubber soil pipe adapters. The one that takes a jubilee clip each end. Keeps the whole unit compact still as apposed to a seperate di vessel.
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: edd on May 21, 2009, 09:20:24 pm
they are all crap Ionic filters just get a 25 litre di and fit and forget for a year like mine

excuse the mess lol
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: edd on May 21, 2009, 09:22:10 pm
by the way the van doesn't look like this now opps
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: R.V.A Window Cleaning Services on May 22, 2009, 12:11:40 am
Do the filters on Ionic systems need to be brought from ionic or are they standard size which can be brought from other suppliers which I expect would be a fair amount cheaper?

I believe they are proprietary sealed units, so yea you would have to buy them off Ionics. A fair few people change the Ionics DI for normal DI vessels due to them being so expensive.
They dont change them because they are expensive, they change them because they are crap with a capital C.


You say they are crap, wouldn't it be better for everyone reading your crap if you gave a reason why you say they are crap or don't you have one? The ionics fillter i have on my pro 5 system has had 250000ltrs of ro water through it, my tds from tap is 260/280 after ro 7/10 after di resin 0.00/0.01. You see, explain your answer and that way will take note of your post. As for price, not bad £80.00 all in no messing and and lasts ages :D
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: drwindows on May 22, 2009, 12:28:18 am
I use ionic filters.  WHen they are spent, you clip one off, and clip the new one in.  Takes 30 seconds.

I could get refillable resin bottles, but really whats the point.

By the time I've messed around emptying, rinsing out and then spooning resin into a bottle, I would probably have lost more cash in lost work time than I would have saved.

Also, I dont really want to have to faff about with resin, i like the convenience.

And as for being "crap with a capital C", well I never had any problems, they seem to last quite well.  Water goes in one side and comes out the other, there's not much to go wrong surely?
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: Mike_G on May 22, 2009, 05:36:39 pm
What about the other filters guys? RO Membrane, carbon etc
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: J~C~S on May 22, 2009, 06:25:32 pm
The ionics resin vessels hold about 6litres of resin... not loads really.

I cut one open for a butchers when the seals on it popped.

Reused the softener resin in a 6.9 litre pressure vessel.
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: edd on May 22, 2009, 06:29:38 pm
ok MR pure  crap meaning only lasts 2 /3 months before they went brown and at £ 80 a time this is not good enough ok
the point is that £ 58 a bag of resin that lasts say 14 months or £ 80 every say 3 months on the colour change resin.....= £ 400 for the same time . I think that , that is good marketing for Ionics but absolutely no good for us or could you not work that out for yourself???faffing about with resin once every 14 months is no prob but changing resin tubes every 3 is, imo and its only my opinion
ok as well as replacing the carbon tube we have installed a 10 inch particle and a 10 inch cabon block filter which last from GAPS WATER 50/80000 litres not bad really at £ 4.00 each and again the Ionic carbon is £ 80.00 and my after the ro is only 2ppm so my carbon filters work more efficiently I could go on all night but whats the point hope this helps
after all it was bad enough paying £28000 for van and system in the first place without paying for resin @ £80 a time

Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: edd on May 22, 2009, 06:30:21 pm
oh
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: drwindows on May 22, 2009, 07:46:09 pm
who said they last 3 months?

I've had mine about 9 months and its still going strong.

I take what you're saying tho yeah you probably could save a bit of money if you wanted to using a bottle, but once you get used to the ease of clipping one out and putting another one in, well you do get lazy.

Like I said, its the convenience (and time saving) you pay for, some are happy to pay it, some are not.

To draw a parallel, I guess, you could go to a shampoo wholesaler and get 20 litres of shampoo at a time and fill up your bathside bottle from it to save some cash, but really thats an inconvenience you dont mind paying extra to avoid.  Its the same for me with filters.

But if resin bottles work best for you then fair play.
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: edd on May 22, 2009, 10:06:31 pm
its not the work of changing,its a money thing for us £80 x 3 monthly and that
was all they seem to last and I have to admit to tds was still 000 ppm but the colour was brown and we was told to change them when brown so maybe they would last longer then we thought and we were novices at that time lol.
The 25 litre resin lasts 14 months @ £59 or £400 simples Edd
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: jr windows on May 22, 2009, 10:40:35 pm
v8edd,

It looks like you have adapted your system alot. In your experience, would you recommend buying a van and system from a major player? Does it bring in better work? Genuine question, looking for advice.

Thanks, jason

Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: [GQC] Tim on May 22, 2009, 11:50:14 pm
By the time I've messed around emptying, rinsing out and then spooning resin into a bottle, I would probably have lost more cash in lost work time than I would have saved.

You work 24hrs a day 7 days a week then? No spare 5 minutes once every 6 months?!

It's all about cost, and you can save buckets of cash by simply using a standard DI, you say you would lose cash by not working five minutes, yet you spend hundreds upon hundreds of pounds more just by using Ionics filters. Yet 5 minutes not worked is about 5 pounds.

Your logic is very flawed.
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: drwindows on May 23, 2009, 12:16:08 am
I bet it takes longer than 5 minutes.

And what I'm saying is I like the ease of using ionics filters, and dont mind spending a little extra for the convenience.  "buckets" of cash, lol hardly! Small beer in window cleaning terms, and no faffing.

And its all tax deductible (unlike your precious time)
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: edd on May 23, 2009, 12:22:41 am
JR in a word NO we will go diy next time but we will get a new van which I think looks the part £ 199 pm
and probably just fit my machine in . imo the van looking good helps promote buisiness so does good looking
work wear... but too spend £ 10000 + on a machine that most of the time you will only see is not profitable but
having said that it worked for us , but i'd rather not spend £ 614 on repayments  but £20 a day wont kill me either
as we were trad for 26 years I just wanted something to be perfect from day one!! ::)
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: R.V.A Window Cleaning Services on May 23, 2009, 04:24:00 pm
Thankyou for explaining your reasons, a much better read :D
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: alanwilson on May 23, 2009, 04:35:08 pm
dr

there really is nothing to changing the resin in the refillable blue containers, takes a couple of minutes to change and as edd has said the difference in cost is huge - we don't use a lot of resin (one bag will last a year with us per van so thats only 2 bags a year we get through)

we use approx 3000ltrs per week per van = 138000 ltrs pure water per year (46 week working year) x 2 vans = 276000ltrs ater a year.

using Ionics filters we would need 4 times as many changes (only 6ltrs per cannister) so 8 x £80 = £640 a year as opposed to £160

saving of £480 for quite literally a total of 20mins work throughout the year, thats equivalent to £1440 an hour

I don't know of any window cleaners who would refer to that as small beer.
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: edd on May 24, 2009, 10:46:37 pm
alan wilson this man talks my talk someone else that knows his stuff
 ;)
cheers alan
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: Window Washers on May 24, 2009, 10:55:59 pm
dr

there really is nothing to changing the resin in the refillable blue containers, takes a couple of minutes to change and as edd has said the difference in cost is huge - we don't use a lot of resin (one bag will last a year with us per van so thats only 2 bags a year we get through)

we use approx 3000ltrs per week per van = 138000 ltrs pure water per year (46 week working year) x 2 vans = 276000ltrs ater a year.

using Ionics filters we would need 4 times as many changes (only 6ltrs per cannister) so 8 x £80 = £640 a year as opposed to £160

saving of £480 for quite literally a total of 20mins work throughout the year, thats equivalent to £1440 an hour

I don't know of any window cleaners who would refer to that as small beer.
if they do I would like a job with them please  ;D
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: Sunshine/Cleaning on May 25, 2009, 02:27:01 pm
I had one of their canisters on my first set-up. I changed to a DI canister and now re-fill when needed.

I double DI so the no.2 becomes no.1 This would be less simple with Ionics filters and more costly.

If however you have correctly costed for Ionics then for simplicity its fine.
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: stephen s on May 25, 2009, 02:38:05 pm
ok MR pure  crap meaning only lasts 2 /3 months before they went brown and at £ 80 a time this is not good enough ok
the point is that £ 58 a bag of resin that lasts say 14 months or £ 80 every say 3 months on the colour change resin.....= £ 400 for the same time . I think that , that is good marketing for Ionics but absolutely no good for us or could you not work that out for yourself???faffing about with resin once every 14 months is no prob but changing resin tubes every 3 is, imo and its only my opinion
ok as well as replacing the carbon tube we have installed a 10 inch particle and a 10 inch cabon block filter which last from GAPS WATER 50/80000 litres not bad really at £ 4.00 each and again the Ionic carbon is £ 80.00 and my after the ro is only 2ppm so my carbon filters work more efficiently I could go on all night but whats the point hope this helps
after all it was bad enough paying £28000 for van and system in the first place without paying for resin @ £80 a time






I find that very strange mate as mine lasted 17 months and I only changed it because I thought it needed changing when it didn't really as tds was reading 02

how much will you spend on resin in 17 months ?
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: edd on May 25, 2009, 05:27:40 pm
6 Ionics filters in 18 months=£480

2 bags resin .....................=£118



Simples eerhh!!
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: edd on May 25, 2009, 05:32:02 pm
im sorry but mine only lasted 3 ish months and I'm not the only one plenty of others say the same that's all I know  Ionics themselves say that they will need changing when they go brown and lets be honest they only hold 6 litres of resin
so doing the maths they can not possibly last 17 months sorry !! ??? ??? unless you are using 100 ltrs a day or less
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: edd on May 25, 2009, 05:39:07 pm
also like I showed you in the photo why even use resin if you use water at 2ppm my ro produces
water at 2ppm ?? so no real need for resin  ???
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: stephen s on May 25, 2009, 06:03:30 pm
im sorry but mine only lasted 3 ish months and I'm not the only one plenty of others say the same that's all I know  Ionics themselves say that they will need changing when they go brown and lets be honest they only hold 6 litres of resin
so doing the maths they can not possibly last 17 months sorry !! ??? ??? unless you are using 100 ltrs a day or less





Think you and  I both need a maths lesson mate as it was actually 29 months without a change,  had system fitted August 06  changed resin Jan 09 but only because I decided to change as windows still looked gleaming,   I have a 650 Litre tank in van and not one single complaint of any customer, infact lots of positive feedback and recommendations to other customers.

I don't care if the resin chages colour I go what the tds reads and mine reads fine and results speak for themselves.
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: edd on May 25, 2009, 10:05:52 pm
like I said mate if the resin is spent ? and the ro is producing 2ppm
( 1 ) you dont need resin and never will
( 2 ) you can leave the spent resin on indefinably in another 3 years if the ro
stays the same the results would be the same for sure
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: jr windows on May 25, 2009, 10:21:48 pm
v8edd,
Sent u an email mate,
Cheers Jason
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: Dean Lewis on September 14, 2014, 10:10:16 pm
Ionics DI - lasted 3 months @£80
Each replacement !!!!
considering swapping linear
 filter to Bottle type with resin fill.
Any recommendations?
Cheers.

Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: Pete Thompson on September 14, 2014, 11:40:15 pm
Quote
there really is nothing to changing the resin in the refillable blue containers, takes a couple of minutes to change

Sorry but no way does not take "a couple of minutes" to change the resin a DI bottle.  I use them all the time, you have to detach it from the system, empty out the resin, rinse it out, then carefully feed the resin in around the riser tube, which is an art in itself (that stuff gets EVERYWHERE) and when its wet it sticks to everything.

Then you have to rinse the whole thing down because without fail the resin gets all over it.

In my experience it takes a minimum of about 40 minutes.

(And even longer if you forget to put the riser tube in before you put the new resin in)

Have to say I have been very tempted to convert to ionics filters just for the "clip off, clip on" convenience.
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: Soupy on September 15, 2014, 06:10:10 am
40 minutes? Seriously?
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: 8weekly on September 15, 2014, 07:11:16 am
Quote
there really is nothing to changing the resin in the refillable blue containers, takes a couple of minutes to change

Sorry but no way does not take "a couple of minutes" to change the resin a DI bottle.  I use them all the time, you have to detach it from the system, empty out the resin, rinse it out, then carefully feed the resin in around the riser tube, which is an art in itself (that stuff gets EVERYWHERE) and when its wet it sticks to everything.

Then you have to rinse the whole thing down because without fail the resin gets all over it.

In my experience it takes a minimum of about 40 minutes.

(And even longer if you forget to put the riser tube in before you put the new resin in)

Have to say I have been very tempted to convert to ionics filters just for the "clip off, clip on" convenience.
Pour water in before inserting the riser. I agree though that it is a pain in the orris job. Easily 20-30 minutes.
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: robert mitchell on September 15, 2014, 06:02:08 pm
The only bit thats time consuming is getting the fecking lid off the thing .......the rest is quick and easy
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: Perfect Windows on September 15, 2014, 06:13:55 pm
Quote
there really is nothing to changing the resin in the refillable blue containers, takes a couple of minutes to change

Sorry but no way does not take "a couple of minutes" to change the resin a DI bottle.  I use them all the time, you have to detach it from the system, empty out the resin, rinse it out, then carefully feed the resin in around the riser tube, which is an art in itself (that stuff gets EVERYWHERE) and when its wet it sticks to everything.

Then you have to rinse the whole thing down because without fail the resin gets all over it.

In my experience it takes a minimum of about 40 minutes.

(And even longer if you forget to put the riser tube in before you put the new resin in)

Have to say I have been very tempted to convert to ionics filters just for the "clip off, clip on" convenience.

Try a different way.

Fill the empty vessel with resin (80% full), using a wide necked funnel (mine's made out of cardboard)

Fill the vessel with water to just above the resin level.

Push in the riser tube and lid.  If it sticks (and it shouldn't) just blow into the "out" hole of the lid - it forms an air bubble around the bottom of the riser that it's easy to push into.

That's it.  Should take about ten minutes for the fill part.

Vin
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: Perfect Windows on September 15, 2014, 06:19:58 pm
And for what it's worth, to empty the DI, I just pour everything in the DI into two bin liners, one inside the other.  Tie them up, water and all inside.  Make a dozen pinpricks through the binbags, leave it outside for 24 hours and all the water will have drained out leaving just damp resin inside ready for the bin.

Vin
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: richard groves on September 15, 2014, 09:18:20 pm
Quote
there really is nothing to changing the resin in the refillable blue containers, takes a couple of minutes to change

Sorry but no way does not take "a couple of minutes" to change the resin a DI bottle.  I use them all the time, you have to detach it from the system, empty out the resin, rinse it out, then carefully feed the resin in around the riser tube, which is an art in itself (that stuff gets EVERYWHERE) and when its wet it sticks to everything.

Then you have to rinse the whole thing down because without fail the resin gets all over it.

In my experience it takes a minimum of about 40 minutes.

(And even longer if you forget to put the riser tube in before you put the new resin in)

Have to say I have been very tempted to convert to ionics filters just for the "clip off, clip on" convenience.

Try a different way.

Fill the empty vessel with resin (80% full), using a wide necked funnel (mine's made out of cardboard)

Fill the vessel with water to just above the resin level.

Push in the riser tube and lid.  If it sticks (and it shouldn't) just blow into the "out" hole of the lid - it forms an air bubble around the bottom of the riser that it's easy to push into.

That's it.  Should take about ten minutes for the fill part.

Vin
Even that sounds a bit too time consuming.
I changed my resin today whilst out working.
My bucket holds approx the same amount as my resin vessel, so I tip the resin in to the bucket 2/3 to 3/4 full and top up with ro water, when its sloppy enough I pour it straight in to the di cannister and replace the riser tube and thats it. 5 mins.

I was a little annoyed though at taking 5 mins out of my day and had to work later to catch up and reach my £300 target, meaning I didnt get home until 1.15 this afternoon, but hey ho, such is life, lesson learnt. I'll do it on a weekend next time.
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: Perfect Windows on September 15, 2014, 10:03:38 pm
Even that sounds a bit too time consuming.
I changed my resin today whilst out working.
My bucket holds approx the same amount as my resin vessel, so I tip the resin in to the bucket 2/3 to 3/4 full and top up with ro water, when its sloppy enough I pour it straight in to the di cannister and replace the riser tube and thats it. 5 mins.

I'll give that a try next time - sounds like quite an improvement.  Thanks.

Vin
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: Simon@ Clearview contractors on September 15, 2014, 10:12:31 pm
I used to use a down pipe hopper from a home gutter system.   Makes it able to do a full change in approximately 10 mins.
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: richard groves on September 15, 2014, 10:20:14 pm
Even that sounds a bit too time consuming.
I changed my resin today whilst out working.
My bucket holds approx the same amount as my resin vessel, so I tip the resin in to the bucket 2/3 to 3/4 full and top up with ro water, when its sloppy enough I pour it straight in to the di cannister and replace the riser tube and thats it. 5 mins.

I'll give that a try next time - sounds like quite an improvement.  Thanks.

Vin
as is your double bin bag suggestion ! thanks
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: Richard Stevenson on September 16, 2014, 07:25:26 am
i have used both types ones a pain in the arse, ones expensive, i would rather pay extra
Title: Re: Ionic filters
Post by: matthewprice on September 16, 2014, 08:08:41 am
Use ionic filter reading after to 6.after ro 0..do is 4 years old and now only crept up to 2.so can't say that they are inferior