Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: big J on May 17, 2009, 05:51:56 pm
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what are the advantages/disadvantages of a hot WFP system other than cost? I have read conflicting reports off the net. Does anyone on here use or intend to use it and why
cheers
big j
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what are the advantages/disadvantages of a hot WFP system other than cost? I have read conflicting reports off the net. Does anyone on here use or intend to use it and why
cheers
big j
my biggest worry is in the winter when very cold, windows being cracked broke from termal chock, it happens as I did this to my own window ::)
Give that to an employee and there the risk goes higher, still debating on this and would love to read some answers from people that employ others that use hot (when I say employ, I mean they work away from you in seperate van with hot)
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hot all the way every time no matter what the weather in winter just turn it down to say 15 degs and trust me that makes a difference it still feels warm in winter and best of all keeps the hose soft and much easier to reel in. I will never use cold ever after its cold enough in winter and I could not bear a cold hose lol that all stiff and a .... to reel in
........................ ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D..........................
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I have heard that hot pure windows can attack aluminum extrusion or older painted frames have you come across this V8edd? :-\
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This crops up when people quote from an old b====x site.The idea is that co2 makes the water acidic. At the moment on the news there is a lot about ocean acidification, and over and over scientists repeat- cold water absorbs and holds carbon dioxide better than hot water- (co2 in solution is carbonic acid)
This is of course worrying for the planet, but it means the 'science' used by these supplier 'experts' to attack hot water is in fact hot air.
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look at brodx thay put a lot of rubish out on hot when thay dident have hot now thayth got hot its sliced bread int . i woodent go back to cold
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all I know is that for nearly 4 years we have had no probs except
for a few broken windows which the water was not regulated by a heat controller and was too hot opps!!
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Ed how long do you get out of that 140ah battery with the heater and pump.
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all I know is that for nearly 4 years we have had no probs except
for a few broken windows which the water was not regulated by a heat controller and was too hot opps!!
What is the difference that you use as a guideline between outside temp and temp at the brush head? 15 to 20c?
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all I know is that for nearly 4 years we have had no probs except
for a few broken windows which the water was not regulated by a heat controller and was too hot opps!!
So are you still suggesting 20 degrees water ?
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In the depths of last winter i used mine at 60+degrees with no breaking of any glass,i was told it would crack glass at that temp but i had no problems.Unless the glass is very thin and brittle you shouldn`t get any cracking,i havn`t yet.
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how long do i get well all day every day so far lol but i have got a split charge
and i charge up every night well most nights any way no probs so far i was going to buy a yellow top optima but it was too much but the deep cycle one is the same but bigger and cheaper
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I am guessing you guys that use it know very little about glass and why it breaks and put it down to luck, please correct me I am not trying to insult anyone.
The main cause of glass breaking is becuase it was not fitted correctly something you cannot see from the floor. If fitted wrong and expansion happens 9/10 it will crack, hot water adds to this problem, thermo shock is another I would love to hear any supplier be honest about this instead of just selling to people that do not know and use trial and error as this could be very expensive.
So what I ask is any tech minded people on this subject reply with facts. And help all us non hot wfp make the correct choice.
I am not against hot in anyway, but reading some things put on here are truly shocking to say the least, and there is no way I would put my company rep on the line on hearsay and it should be ok kind of thing.
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I agree with Ian, a few broken windows is completely unacceptable to me.
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I tryed it. :)
I found it certainly easier to work with, and it did shift stubborn marks, i'e bird poo, snail trails ect , with ease. I also like the way the brushes moved on the glass with some heat in them
For me though, I found the running costs a tad too high to keep using it for a predominately domestic round.
I think cold water doe's an excellent job, and leaves the same result as hot - but hot is makes the job more user freindly.
Would I go back to hot? Only if I was taking on extremely dirty commercial contracts and the running costs where a lot less. :-\
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How can you guys spend £3000 on a hot system and thousands more on an Ionics system then tell us "it's paid for itself in the first day etc" then quibble over the price of a yellow top battery?
Makes me laugh ;D ;D ;D ;D ::)
How can 15 degrees be classed as a 'hot' system? I could pee warmer than that!
You guys are nuts!
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Ian
I am with you on this one, if there is no room for expansion due to the glass being too tightly fitted, when it expands, through heat (hot water) then it will put extra pressure on the glass and with nowhere to go it will crack.
Unfortunately when you clean windows you cannot know the history of every single window and the quality of the fitting. One window cracking on one property would be too many for me. I am building a second residential window cleaning business and it is coming through on recommendation alone.
I wouldn't even contemplate saying it wasn't my system, if I broke or cracked a piece of glass, I would just replace it!
Apart from a short period last year, after I sold the big round I have been cleaning windows or large commercial glass canopies/windows for over 9 years, I have never needed a hot system, I may need to scrub a little harder on baked on bits but I get few complaints, if any and have a lot of new cleans, window cleaning and conservatory roofs/full upvc cleans.
Is it necessary to improve my business, will it make it anymore money, do I need it, I don't think so.
Are there questions arising from user capability and knowledge on its potential problems, can thermal shock happen whilst using it, probably
I think that you have put a valid argument forward and my opinion is that it is an over rated gadget, over priced and not necessary for 99.9% of window cleaning businesses.
Rob ;D
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Its an expensive way of keeping ones hands warm in the winter. ;D
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expensive maybe maybe not We use heating oil now which is 1/4 price of diesel so this helps, then its on from 8 till 12
4 hours a day 4 litres oil £ 1.20 a day so not really expensive I suppose is it. the broken windows were down to not been
fitted correctly the packing spacers were too tight. today's temp was 42 degs which is just right and we haven't broken
any windows for years now touch wood
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V8edd
How much was the system and is there a fitting price on top of that?
Rob ;D
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Slump buster
I have given an opinion on a subject that I find interesting but from where I stand can see no benefit to my business, I have not attacked anyone or belittled anyone for having the system.
If you have one similarly I don't care, Ian, someone I know and have had business dealings with replied well and I wanted to add to that.
I have spent quite a few years on the site and yet again there will be the one that wants to pull a topic down to arguing, this is almost a daily thing.
Get a grip man and stop making a fool of yourself!!!!
I have nothing to prove on here or anywhere else, if the defence of the system is that it keeps the hose supple through the winter and keeps the hands warm then I would suggest a pair of waterproof gloves, with less running cost and virtually no maintenance and no questions over potential problems.
If we put our businesses side by side I would make you look like a no starter, do not call me stark raving bonkers, I have never disrespected you or anyone else on here.
I will bow out of the topic, Slumpbuster go out and make your fortune, I wish you well.
Rob ;D
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I nave used hot for ten months now so far no cracking of glass
running costs £ 2 quid a day
would i go back to cold NO WAY
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Don't be like that m-clean, i was trying to help you.You put forward a good argument, but that's all it was. I wasn't trying to be antagonistic, merely robust.Don't let me spoil your day or involvement in the forum.
My first employee starts tomorrow so i am a bit full of myself, but the fact is we are all equal on here and i should respect your right to an opinion a bit more.
regards Clive
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Thermal shock is the name given to cracking as a result of rapid temperature change. Glass and ceramic objects are particularly vulnerable to this form of failure, due to their low toughness, low thermal conductivity, and high thermal expansion coefficients. However, they are used in many high temperature applications due to their high melting point.
Thermal shock occurs when a thermal gradient causes different parts of an object to expand by different amounts. This differential expansion can be understood in terms of stress or of strain, equivalently. At some point, this stress overcomes the strength of the material, causing a crack to form. If nothing stops this crack from propagating through the material, it will cause the object's structure to fail.
Not my words but from Wikipedia.
NWH I think you have been lucky
Slumpbuster is this your website www.villagegleam.co.uk
Rob ;D
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yes, what do you mean?
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Not lucky careful,i don`t scrub and scrub like others do it`s not needed with hotwater,if you keep the hot water in the same area for long periods of time it will crack the glass.I don`t leave the brush in the same spot for long lol. ;D
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the broken windows were down to not been
fitted correctly the packing spacers were too tight
You are talking about upvc windows, it thats the case why don't wooden windows that have glass fitted with panel pins and putty crack, these sort have got no movement whatsoever for the glass and if your theory is correct then every one should crack ???
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thinking back to traditional on a hot summers when you soaped a window with cold water and bladed it off warm, so whats the difference putting cold water on hot glass as suppose to hot water on cold glass? ???
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Exactly take a hot plate out of the oven and stand it on a cold surface and see what happens.
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Plates pegged to a washing line and scrubbed with a hot wfp come up better than hand or dishwasher standard. This is a handy add on if you txt the custys to leave them out.
Avoid windy days, and use strong pegs.
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How can you guys spend £3000 on a hot system and thousands more on an Ionics system then tell us "it's paid for itself in the first day etc" then quibble over the price of a yellow top battery?
Makes me laugh ;D ;D ;D ;D ::)
How can 15 degrees be classed as a 'hot' system? I could pee warmer than that!
You guys are nuts!
PMSL :)