Clean It Up

UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Barry Pearce on April 16, 2005, 03:11:46 pm

Title: What is a Cowboy?
Post by: Barry Pearce on April 16, 2005, 03:11:46 pm
Are they a Rogue, Dishonest, Untrained, or someone who is making more money than you, and you don1t like it.
Barry
Title: Re: What is a Cowboy?
Post by: Big_Fish on April 16, 2005, 03:21:41 pm
Aren't they the ones who:

We go round after to sort out the mess?

Charge really cheap prices because they can't get work through recommendation and repeat business?

We hear horror stories about so often?

Why are you asking?

Nicky
Title: Re: What is a Cowboy?
Post by: Barry Pearce on April 16, 2005, 03:35:06 pm
Nicky.
Because Gavin Gare discribed Chem Dry operatives as cowboys?
Barry
Title: Re: What is a Cowboy?
Post by: eco freindly. peoples champion ron .sherlock on April 16, 2005, 07:00:41 pm
yee haaa giddyup
Title: Re: What is a Cowboy?
Post by: Dave_Lee on April 16, 2005, 07:05:16 pm
A cowboy, I hate that description, I prefer to call them unethical. Someone who portrays themself as a professional, but is a fraudster,has no pride whatsoever in the job, is untrained, uncaring in the outcome and hasnt got a real clue to what hes actually doing and whos only motivation is the money he gets at the end of the job. The guy who is trained, knows how to do the job but isnt interested, sells himself well then leaves the client with a badly rushed job, is nearly as bad. Perhaps the worst of all is the 'Well meaning incompetant.' The guy who comes over as genuine, a nice chap, he really wants to do a good job but hes hopelessy inept. He will carry on trying to make a bad job good, only to keep making it worse. This is the type of guy you really dont want in your house.
Oh, yes, and all the competition within a 50 mile radius. ;D
Dave.
Title: Re: What is a Cowboy?
Post by: Big_Fish on April 16, 2005, 07:10:40 pm
Barry,

have you ever listened to one of those recorded "Consumer Messages" that some Chem Dry operators use? ::)

Some of the claims are astounding and the whole thing is so boring. I think I know what gavin was saying.

Nicky
Title: Re: What is a Cowboy?
Post by: Steve Weatherley on April 16, 2005, 08:57:37 pm
Hey Don Atkinson - do you know the definition of a cowboy?  ;D
Title: Re: What is a Cowboy?
Post by: paul@scc on April 16, 2005, 10:22:10 pm
I thought a cowboy was from america wore a silly hat rode a hourse with a home made tm on the back
Title: Re: What is a Cowboy?
Post by: paulchambers on April 16, 2005, 11:16:56 pm
A cowboy is someone who undercuts your price and gets the job and give the professional cc a bad name by doing a bad good and prehaps put the customer off of having carpets cleaned again  paul
Title: Re: What is a Cowboy?
Post by: Barry Pearce on April 17, 2005, 06:59:18 am
Nicky
No , I have never heard  the out going message from a Chem-Dry operator, or any franchisee for that matter, most of them have phoned me.
Barry
Title: Re: What is a Cowboy?
Post by: adl on April 17, 2005, 08:31:38 am
dave lee

Does that mean you dont want any more jobs from the cowboys ;) ;)

regards Blazing Saddles
Title: Re: What is a Cowboy?
Post by: Doug Holloway on April 17, 2005, 09:28:20 am
Hi Guys,

On a slighty different track I was taught never to knock competitors as you only knock your industry.

I have found mentioning 'cowboys' to customers has a negative effect as I think it starts them worrying.

Always point out the positves of your service.

Cheers,

Doug
Title: Re: What is a Cowboy?
Post by: neil 47 on April 17, 2005, 02:45:34 pm
We all talk about which machine is best ? Which chemical we should use ? Which method gives best results.
But if it is the most important thing I learnt ,from both customers and cc & suppliers, having talked to a lot to all of them and researched on 6-7 boards   
That  in  MOI the best thing to do after a good basic training is to spend the minimal amount of money possible on your set up and spend what you have got left on marketing and vary this as much as possible  , leaflets being at least 50% of this.

 Of the customers I have been to 99%   don’t know the difference between a tm and a portable.
So my conclusion is as a new starter you have to be there at the time with your advertising that they want there carpets cleaned and they don’t care how you do it.
Like one cc told me it’s a numbers game, get the phone ringing as much as possible and clean the carpets as quick as you can  never mind all this pre vacing or pre spraying just get it done and move on.
Better to have a high turn over  with med to poor reputation than low turn over and a good reputation.
A lot of you may say  people that do this are just cowboys but from what I see and hear it must mean that 90% of the high earners ARE cowboys.
 All you have to do is work out the hours they work and the income they say they earn.

It’s ok for the well established cc to deride other cc for using these methods but from my own experience these are the cc that are making the most cash  .



NEIL

PS STILL POOR

pps doug woman gave me job because the other quote she had said he would bring his blowers she thought how wet would her carpets be

ha ha ;D ;D
Title: Re: What is a Cowboy?
Post by: Ken Wainwright on April 17, 2005, 02:49:56 pm
I follow the same tack as Dave. For me a cowboy is someone who performs very poor work. Regardless of the system or the various processes not completed, the cowboy will leave a carpet/suite nowhere as clean as it could have been, is left too wet with resultant slow drying. So far, this scenario could also apply to an inexperienced and/or poorly trained technician. But the cowboy won't care about the results, just take the money and move on to the next. The inexperienced tec. though, will be concerned about his poor results and start asking questions of the right people, probably starting with his chemical supplier, and will eventually end up on a formal training course. Low prices has no relevance whatsoever to the discussion of cowboys. Poor presentation in any form is nothing to do with cowboys. That is a professionalism issue.

Safe and happy cleaning :)
Ken
Title: Re: What is a Cowboy?
Post by: Len Gribble on April 17, 2005, 06:11:32 pm
My interpretation of a cowboy is someone not going back to sort out a problem!

Len
Title: Re: What is a Cowboy?
Post by: Barry Pearce on April 17, 2005, 06:45:35 pm
Len
Could it be somebody who has always got time to go back to put things right, but havn`t got time to do the job right in the first place?
Barry
Title: Re: What is a Cowboy?
Post by: Len Gribble on April 17, 2005, 07:28:00 pm
Barry

True but then you may have the case of wick back, which I’m sure has happed to some of us, at one time or another and been called back, would that make me a cowboy?

Done a job on Wednesday customer was surprised I moved the 3 pieces suit to clean under it asking why? She said the other cc who cleaned before didn’t! My response you paid for clean to a price I clean to a standard that’s why I’m a tad dearer. Don’t think this makes the other cc a cowboy.

I stand by my thread.

Len
Title: Re: What is a Cowboy?
Post by: Dave_Lee on April 17, 2005, 07:43:31 pm
Dave Ashmore,
Come on Dave, you know very well that I dont regard you or Glynn as the competition, we're colleages in the same business.  ;)You know the people of our two towns dont know how spoilt they are, having three TM operators within 3 miles of each other, I mean our towns arent exactly big are they. I had a guy the other day wanting a quote, but insisting my set up was TM. Words getting round all right.
Dave.
Title: Re: What is a Cowboy?
Post by: Matt Read on April 17, 2005, 08:53:18 pm
Dave surely he would only ask for a truckmount because he was recommended to, by someone who has had their carpet cleaned by a truckmount and had the hard sell on the benefits of it. Had he had dry clean system and was happy your customer may have asked for that ...porty user same thing etc etc...We can't even agree in the trade which is the most beneficial cleaning system so really its all down to marketing.

Slap and dash / Bait and switch ...these guys are the cowboys in my opinion,,If you've been trained and have decent equipment then it mainly boils down to experience,intelligence and ethics ...you couldn't call a guy with 2 years experience, of equal intelligence and training to a guy of 10 years experience,a cowboy because he isn't quite as good.
Title: Re: What is a Cowboy?
Post by: paul@scc on April 17, 2005, 09:45:38 pm
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11702&item=4374169038&rd=1

This is no cowboy just a dreamer £25000 from his yell ad but selling as if
Title: Re: What is a Cowboy?
Post by: therapist on April 17, 2005, 10:23:20 pm
Don't know why you feel this guy's a dreamer Paul it may well be that he's doing what he claims.

I have just sold a similar package plus a van and several more machines for a lower price and for the same reasons 'dodgysam' quotes.

If I were claiming 25K t/o this would be extremely modest and anyone marketing their business effectively should have no problem achieving double that figure .

Unfortunately, in my case, I have purchased a system which I'd never have considered due to to what appears to be a real COWBOY operator who is conning existing and new c c's into parting with a considerable sum of money on what appears to be lies and deceit.

At this moment there will be no names, as I may take action on this person, but I'd be interested to know if anyone else has been conned into purchasing a cc system on the promise/assurance of high earnings.

best wishes
Title: Re: What is a Cowboy?
Post by: paul@scc on April 17, 2005, 10:51:17 pm
The reasons i have put this is a you can never sell a buisness on a guarentee of making money which he has stated. second point if you run a cleaning firm why would you get rid of a machine that was working so well for you after only 6 months surely it would be more profitable to put someone on it as a seperate part of the buisness. yes he might be getting something bigger but why buy it in the first place if you knew it was in demand that much. Plus if you work it out this equipment you could buy for less then £5000 brand new. what hes selling is about £2000 worth of marketing ideas. I think its wrong to offer that within a year you will be making £50,000-£60,000 in the as most buisnesses crash and burn within that and i bet there are some cleaners that have been at it longer and still dont make that. Its wrong and unethical to sell false promises and you should know that as youve had it done to you
Title: Re: What is a Cowboy?
Post by: Barry Pearce on April 18, 2005, 07:34:30 am
Therapist.
We all like to think we go into things with our eyes open, but promises are not usualy written down, think of the frachisees CC and the clincher"if you dont succeed we will buy it back from you", just like time share, a year down the line and its not worth a light, it is easy to say "a fool and his money are very soon parted"
Barry
Title: Re: What is a Cowboy?
Post by: Ian Gourlay on April 18, 2005, 08:09:52 am
Therapist,

Some would have considered me a Cowboy when I first started as I had a Rug Doctor Commercial.

Great Machine vibrating brush loads of aggitation  as powerful as many other machines being sold at the time. Pleanty of aggitation. etc.

Yes I bought it as I was told High Earnings , all help I needed etc.

Company I obtained it from closed never found out why.

Therapist.

Little puzzled as in one sentence you state it is easy to obtain good living from carpet cleaning .

Then you state you so;d your kit and obtained new kit on the grounds someone promised you high earnings


As far as I know  many leading supply companies promotr high earnings in their sales message.

I think Prochem has stopped this type of marketing. I also exclude Solutions and Amtex ? as I have never seen their Marketing material
Title: Re: What is a Cowboy?
Post by: Dave_Lee on April 18, 2005, 08:43:59 pm
Matt,
Fair point, all in all a cowboy in any trade, is simply someone out to rip off the customer. That could be by doing a thoroughly bad or inadequate job, and/or by over charging for what he has/hasnt done.
Dave.