Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: matt on April 15, 2005, 10:20:52 pm
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http://d.co.uk/
I have helped a fair few on here (you know who you are ;)) so i thought why not do a little walk-through guide
a WFP system built for under 550 quid
what you waiting for
Oh and if you use others sites, spread the word so others can gain
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Matt,
Just had a look at your system, very good, does the job and probably about half the price of a pre made up system.
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Cheers :) It does a cracking job, and your right, it is half the price of other systems
i should also say my thanks to peeps, jeff and Philip, cheers lads, you inspired me to have a go
Oh i am also working on a slightly different idea, Lewis the pics will be up when i have a spare few hours ;)
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well done matt the most simple explanation i've seen. at the end of the day(or brush) 000ppm is 000ppm why waste thousands, if thats all you need!
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well done matt the most simple explanation i've seen. at the end of the day(or brush) 000ppm is 000ppm why waste thousands, if thats all you need!
thats the point, it really is that simple
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Very very interesting. Thanks.
Ross
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Thanks for that site Matt Its really useful. I wanted the rundown on the system for ages.
One question. The power pack you use is the jump starter, do you find this really noisy? My old man has one for his car and I need ear plugs. I suppose that a 12 volt battery would do the job.
Cheers
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Seems good but what about crash testing that all of the big names have done?
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well done matt :) its refreshing to see some one not wanting any thing in return to share his/her knowledge
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well done matt, i to have a diy system similar to what you describe, also well done on the forum
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top site matt , I only started the leap over to the dark side yesterday and went into my local camping shop to get some 25lts contaners - came out with a 35ltr container on wheels that they use for sticking under caravans . got a rechargable power pack for £14.99 !! from Makro , thay have them on special for 2 weeks .
the powerpack sits on top nice .
click - to see -
http://www.sportscorner.co.uk/watertank.html (http://www.sportscorner.co.uk/watertank.html)
when i see it had to have it LOL - just got to sort pump out etc etc then ready to rock 8)
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Well done Matt,
Very similar to the system I use, a lot cheaper too :o
I found the power pack fine for a couple of hours work a day, but had to change over to an 85ah leisure battery, recharges faster and lasts way longer in use, downside of course is that it is much heavier :-\
But if your funds are tight, and you are reasonably practical, your site gives an excellent set of instructions and links to where you can purchase all that you need to make your own system.
Ian
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I just want to say that I am totally impressed. Thanks very much for sharing it with us.
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Thanks for that site Matt Its really useful. I wanted the rundown on the system for ages.
One question. The power pack you use is the jump starter, do you find this really noisy? My old man has one for his car and I need ear plugs. I suppose that a 12 volt battery would do the job.
Cheers
totally silent, i cannot hear it at all
your only using the 12V ciggie bit of it anyway, which just using the battery inside it
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Well done Matt,
Very similar to the system I use, a lot cheaper too :o
I found the power pack fine for a couple of hours work a day, but had to change over to an 85ah leisure battery, recharges faster and lasts way longer in use, downside of course is that it is much heavier :-\
But if your funds are tight, and you are reasonably practical, your site gives an excellent set of instructions and links to where you can purchase all that you need to make your own system.
Ian
i only do upstairs with it, and it last me from 8 till 5 ish, ive been using it for a while now and the battery is starting to struggle at about 4 ish, BUT as you say, just add a 12 Volt battery instead, ive been usnign mine for about 6 months now, and in my eyes, 40 quid for 6 months use, isnt that bad
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This is absolutely what I have been thinking about, the simplest, most easily & cheaply compiled WFP kit for the one man band residentially orientated operative. You have really helped me move forward in this respect.
I just have one thought & one question. How straight forward is it lifting the sack trucks with all the gubbins & the cans in & out of a standard salloon vehicle?. I'm thinking that if you had a 250 lt. tank in a trailor with a space to lift the sack trucks in & out of, might that not be preferable ?. If the tank had a pump attached, you could fill the can from the tank, thereby negating the need for more than one can. You could also have the RO attached to the tank & detatch the trailor from the car at the end of the day & wheel it to your out side tap to fill up over night. I appreciate this would add to the cost, but it would save on the users back & avoid wrecking what might be the families only means of transport.
Any comments?
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i have a estate car and this is how i do it
Sack truck on rear seats (ive lined the seat with a Dog / plastic cover) i allways remove the barrel, BUT you still sometimes get some water left in the pipes, thus the cover
water Barrels , 2 in the front passnger Footspace, 2 behind each of the front seats ---- total 150 L's of water
if you needed anymore water you could try them in the boot, BUT i just bung my bucket and kits in the boot
people will cry out "what about the weight on your car" well 150 L is 150KG the same as a fairly big bloke
job done
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If its ok with people, i will move the question over to the forum on the site, as then others can see them, afterall this thread will soon drop down the forum
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Seems good but what about crash testing that all of the big names have done?
a trolley system cannot be crash tested, as its not fixed
you could fit a strap to secure it though while in transit:)
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top site matt , I only started the leap over to the dark side yesterday and went into my local camping shop to get some 25lts contaners - came out with a 35ltr container on wheels that they use for sticking under caravans . got a rechargable power pack for £14.99 !! from Makro , thay have them on special for 2 weeks .
the powerpack sits on top nice .
click - to see -
http://www.sportscorner.co.uk/watertank.html (http://www.sportscorner.co.uk/watertank.html)
when i see it had to have it LOL - just got to sort pump out etc etc then ready to rock 8)
i looked at the same type of thing :) but what put me off was the refill time, i prefered to just change the barrel over
but i did like the look of the waste water cart
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top site matt , I only started the leap over to the dark side yesterday and went into my local camping shop to get some 25lts contaners - came out with a 35ltr container on wheels that they use for sticking under caravans . got a rechargable power pack for £14.99 !! from Makro , thay have them on special for 2 weeks .
the powerpack sits on top nice .
click - to see -
http://www.sportscorner.co.uk/watertank.html (http://www.sportscorner.co.uk/watertank.html)
when i see it had to have it LOL - just got to sort pump out etc etc then ready to rock 8)
i looked at the same type of thing :) but what put me off was the refill time, i prefered to just change the barrel over
but i did like the look of the waste water cart
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might pop along to Makro and have a look if they have any left :)
save me a few quid, cheers
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Matt,
Top post mate; I've saved it to my 'favourates' to study at my leisure.
Regards.
Tosh.
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hi, well done on a great idea, i wondered if you could you answer some questions on it:
1) how long does water in barrel last , how many 3 bed semi's could you do all-round before refill?
2) how many 25 ltr containers do you have with you?
3) I have a ford escort van would this be sufficient?
4)how many cleans to get a good result?
5) how did your customers take to your new way of working? 6) did you lose any custom when changed over?
7) did you find it easy enough to get to grips with using poles did you need training?
Sorry to bombard you with questions but i found your site very intresting. Lee_dewing@hotmailco.uk
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just answered in a seperate thread :)
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I have a ford escort van would this be sufficient?
I also have an escort van and it would be big enough depending on how much work you are doing each day.
I have only been using WFP for a week now, last week i was just doing tops until i got used to it a bit, This week i am doing the whole house.
I carry 10 water bottles with me but one day last week i carried 13 and on average im using 25ltrs on most house 3 and 4 bed semi's
On a terrace house im using about 20ltrs
Paul
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I get about 4 semi's out of 50 litres....but it can be 50 litres on a new clean or large detached 4 bed jobbie....it's always less after a first clean....once they are in good nick...it takes very little water to keep them up to scratch...I suppose I use about 250 litres a day normally, maybe less, depends on the jobs. It's more an issue with the battery on the trolley going flat. When it was new, it'd last 4-5 days on a charge...now I seem to be charging it every other day...oh well, I guess I need to buy and carry a spare one.....though I'm still working on an 'in car' charger for the trolley....not as straight forward as it seems....but I'll get there.
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silly question I know but is it easy to see how clean 2nd and 3rd floor windows are from the ground , or is it brush on 20litres and run :-[
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my 2nd floor stuff, i use the same flow rate as domestic houses and just trust the water :)
use the force ;D
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I hav not transferred over to WFP yet and I like the idea of building my own system but, not knocking this ingenious system, from a presentation point of view would it not be better to have a fancy bought one so you would be taken more seriously, charge more and have more chance of getting commercial contracts? Just a few thoughts, thats all.
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I hav not transferred over to WFP yet and I like the idea of building my own system but, not knocking this ingenious system, from a presentation point of view would it not be better to have a fancy bought one so you would be taken more seriously, charge more and have more chance of getting commercial contracts? Just a few thoughts, thats all.
very good point glen, however it's all down to budget, mine is a homemade trolley system and i think i'm taken seriously by my customers (least i hope they do)
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Matt,
I'm a traditional window cleaner, but won't be for much longer, thanks to this post.
Someone like me needs an 'idiots guide'.
Donation made!
Regards.
Tosh.
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I hav not transferred over to WFP yet and I like the idea of building my own system but, not knocking this ingenious system, from a presentation point of view would it not be better to have a fancy bought one so you would be taken more seriously, charge more and have more chance of getting commercial contracts? Just a few thoughts, thats all.
very good point glen, however it's all down to budget, mine is a homemade trolley system and i think i'm taken seriously by my customers (least i hope they do)
In my limited experience, it's not the kit you use that gets you large commercial contracts. It's how you present yourself when asked for a quote.
And getting asked for quotes, for big jobs, is another thread completely.
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Tosh...I'm no expert...and I don't use (yet) a handmade system...but anytime you want to chew the fat over WFP systems...you can always PM me or speak to me on messenger....you are always welcome...I might be able to help out sometimes...all the best.
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Tosh...I'm no expert...and I don't use (yet) a handmade system...but anytime you want to chew the fat over WFP systems...you can always PM me or speak to me on messenger....you are always welcome...I might be able to help out sometimes...all the best.
Thanks Duke,
No doubt I will be asking you questions regarding WFP shortly. Ian_Giles who's local to me has also agreed to show me the ropes, for the price of a lunch (my suggestion) and I just have to find the time to meet up with him when he's working, and I'm not.
I just think this is a cracking post as Matt has obviously spent a lot of time researching his stuff, posting links, and explaining how it all works in layman's terms (pictures and everything).
Had this post been on E-bay, charging for the information up-front, then I would've raised an eye-brow.
However, he's saying here's how it all works, where to get the stuff. Pay me if you want! I think if you use his information as the foundation for purchasing the equipment required to put together a WFP, and it works just as well as a ready-made one, at half the cost, then a tenner is a cheap price to pay.
Mind you, if, and when I do follow his instructions, and it all goes 'pear shaped', I'll want my tenner back!
But I think Matt will feel quite safe in the knowledge that his system works; so mine should too.
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hear, hear...I'm sure it'll all be fine....otherwise we'd all be 'in it'..lol'
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top site matt , I only started the leap over to the dark side yesterday and went into my local camping shop to get some 25lts contaners - came out with a 35ltr container on wheels that they use for sticking under caravans . got a rechargable power pack for £14.99 !! from Makro , thay have them on special for 2 weeks .
had a play with the wastemaster today :(
not as good as it looks in practice - looks like my dad will get a early xmas prescent :'(
popped into mackro again today - still stacks of powerpacks left @ £14.99 plus vat
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Matt,
I'm a traditional window cleaner, but won't be for much longer, thanks to this post.
Someone like me needs an 'idiots guide'.
Donation made!
Regards.
Tosh.
cheers tosh :)
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Tosh...I'm no expert...and I don't use (yet) a handmade system...but anytime you want to chew the fat over WFP systems...you can always PM me or speak to me on messenger....you are always welcome...I might be able to help out sometimes...all the best.
Thanks Duke,
No doubt I will be asking you questions regarding WFP shortly. Ian_Giles who's local to me has also agreed to show me the ropes, for the price of a lunch (my suggestion) and I just have to find the time to meet up with him when he's working, and I'm not.
I just think this is a cracking post as Matt has obviously spent a lot of time researching his stuff, posting links, and explaining how it all works in layman's terms (pictures and everything).
Had this post been on E-bay, charging for the information up-front, then I would've raised an eye-brow.
However, he's saying here's how it all works, where to get the stuff. Pay me if you want! I think if you use his information as the foundation for purchasing the equipment required to put together a WFP, and it works just as well as a ready-made one, at half the cost, then a tenner is a cheap price to pay.
Mind you, if, and when I do follow his instructions, and it all goes 'pear shaped', I'll want my tenner back!
But I think Matt will feel quite safe in the knowledge that his system works; so mine should too.
it wasnt about the money though, it was about helping others get sorted WITHOUT over paying for the thing
I would never had gone down the WFP route if i hadnt built my own (cheers for the help Jeff) as i couldnt justify spending over 1000 on it
the system works, and it works well, i have no worries about that :)
cheers again tosh
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top site matt , I only started the leap over to the dark side yesterday and went into my local camping shop to get some 25lts contaners - came out with a 35ltr container on wheels that they use for sticking under caravans . got a rechargable power pack for £14.99 !! from Makro , thay have them on special for 2 weeks .
ditch the wastemaster and get a SACK TRUCK and you wil be sorted, some1 on the forum on DIYWFP just uses a bungee to keep the barrel in place :)
had a play with the wastemaster today :(
not as good as it looks in practice - looks like my dad will get a early xmas prescent :'(
popped into mackro again today - still stacks of powerpacks left @ £14.99 plus vat
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I hav not transferred over to WFP yet and I like the idea of building my own system but, not knocking this ingenious system, from a presentation point of view would it not be better to have a fancy bought one so you would be taken more seriously, charge more and have more chance of getting commercial contracts? Just a few thoughts, thats all.
very good point glen, however it's all down to budget, mine is a homemade trolley system and i think i'm taken seriously by my customers (least i hope they do)
this is where a little fib comes in :o
you tell them that you have spent X amount of money (the more the better ) on a system thats for a bigger van than you have (or if you have a car) then tell them that you are saving for a VAN, BUT youve had this trolley/cart made just to carry the stuff till the you have the van
it works, i know :P
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[quote
this is where a little fib comes in :o
you tell them that you have spent X amount of money (the more the better ) on a system thats for a bigger van than you have (or if you have a car) then tell them that you are saving for a VAN, BUT youve had this trolley/cart made just to carry the stuff till the you have the van
it works, i know :P
this becoming an interesting thread thanx to matt, it just so happens that i am looking for a bigger van this week, my current van is a suzuki carry van, i've been telling my customers that the system has cost me a small fortune (hasn't really) and also cost me lots to make up the pure water, all this is in preparation for a increase in my prices coming very shortly, the reason i have not put up the prices yet is because i wanted my customers to get used to wfp, i'm now on my second month and all is going well and customers happy with result
PRICE HIKE COMING SOON
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my purifcation systems costs over 2 GRAND :P ::)
these State of the art, breaking technology systems dont come cheap :P
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Put your site in the A-Z guide and as a stand alone topic over on Pros (as no one else has yet), if thats OK. Well done.
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cheers Jeff, the more the merrier :)
help the mass's as they say ;)
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Beware, them Makro Batteries are 17 amp's only and will not last a full day's work. Alot of pumps use 7amps per hr and if the battery has only 17amp it will only last 2 and abit hrs fully working. Your far better off getting a proper lesuire battery, yes there heavy but saves having to buy 3-4 of them cheap Makro batteries, plus i picked up a 100 amp Lesuire battery for £48 from local Auto Spares shop.
Justin
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thats 2 and a bit hours NON STOP
as i have said, i use mine from 8 till 5 on domestic houses, at about 4 ish it starts to struggle now (after a few months of use) BUT for 40 quid (argos) 15 quid (makro special) you cannot go wrong
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Well done matt! Brilliant work!
I've got an Aquatec trolley which is just like your two-barrel system. I too generally work with one barrel (unless doing a commercial) so I have knocked up a battery tray to hold a 75/85ah leisure battery (£30 from Bristol Batteries) in the base of the trolley where the other barrel would go. (In fact you can place the second barrel on top of the leisure battery if you need to, but it does make the set up very heavy.) I also have a remote control to switch the water on and off which is a good water saver.
I also use unger poles - nice and light.
The pump box also has a lever to regulate the flow thru' a by-pass system. (So I set this lower for the top transoms and then up it a bit for the rest of the windows.)
The above mods allow me to get away with 150/200 litres a day (6/8 barrels) on domestic.
I also have bought a vikan 10" brush instead of the one supplied (15") for all my domestic work as it gives better control.
I must say - your system works out at a little under half what I paid for my "ready-made" system - so well done! (Although I don't begrudge Peter - (Aquatec) his profit as he is very helpful and does a lot of "hand-holding" for new bugs)
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Matt,
I am not knocking the site, I think its great. But the simple fact is that Battery states 17 amps. A pump would use 7amps per hr.
Justin
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I agree with you Justin - my system came with the 17 a/h set up and it does die trying and need a lot of re-charging compared with a cheaper leisure battery - it's only saving grace is that it weighs only a few kg compared with 15kg for a leisure battery.
(I'm hoping to use mine (the 17ah) for a home-made back-pack system)
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im not disputing the leisure battery is a good idea, i have 1 for my new system :)
BUT i will be honest
my battery last from 8 till 5 on domestic, i park my trolley under the middle of the house at the front, clean the upstairs front, then move it around the rear and do the same
then i walk around the back and do the downstairs the old fashioned way, then the same around the rear
P.haps thats why my battery is lasting all day, i only do upstairs with WFP
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The pump box also has a lever to regulate the flow thru' a by-pass system. (So I set this lower for the top transoms and then up it a bit for the rest of the windows.)
The above mods allow me to get away with 150/200 litres a day (6/8 barrels) on domestic.
MalcG, (or anyone else); I'm reading this post with some interest. Could you please explain what you mean by regulating the flow lower for the top transoms, and then up a bit for the rest of the windows? I take it, this is a pure water conservation method?
What's a transom to start with?
Keep it simple mate, I'm a Geordie!
Regards,
Tosh.
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Tosh -
Peter Fogwills (aquatec) trolley system has a removable pump box in which reside the pump, a remote control (like a car alarm) and some hose by-passing the pump to a levered valve which allows the pump to continue pumping water (avoiding damage) by allowing more or less of it to go through the by-pass loop as you move the lever.
When I clean windows with transoms (the upper, often opening bit of the window.) I set the flow low and scrub all the top panes on one side of the house (transoms), I then "sheet" them - letting water cascade down them to ensure there is no spotting.
Then I do the lower panes of the upper windows - but as these are usually deeper I up the flow rate so that when I "sheet" them there is enough water to sluice them off.
Then I press the remote (on a cord around my neck), switching off the water flow completely (a bit temperamental this) and do the next side of the house in the same way.
Then I do the bottom windows - either as above or blading as I see fit for the particular property.
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a transom is the bar of wood or plastic that seperate the main bit of the window against the top opening bit
as for the flow rate, i dont touch mine, i guess MalcG turns his down to stop water gathering on the top of the transom and gathering dirt and running down the clean pane of glass ?? ?? ?? though i am sure he will tell you, as im just making a guess
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Exactly, Matt! :)
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Tosh -
Peter Fogwills (aquatec) trolley system has a removable pump box in which reside the pump, a remote control (like a car alarm) and some hose by-passing the pump to a levered valve which allows the pump to continue pumping water (avoiding damage) by allowing more or less of it to go through the by-pass loop as you move the lever.
When I clean windows with transoms (the upper, often opening bit of the window.) I set the flow low and scrub all the top panes on one side of the house (transoms), I then "sheet" them - letting water cascade down them to ensure there is no spotting.
Then I do the lower panes of the upper windows - but as these are usually deeper I up the flow rate so that when I "sheet" them there is enough water to sluice them off.
Then I press the remote (on a cord around my neck), switching off the water flow completely (a bit temperamental this) and do the next side of the house in the same way.
Then I do the bottom windows - either as above or blading as I see fit for the particular property.
I've had a couple of lagers. Hopefully I'll understand the above in the morning.
Night night.
Regards and thanks for the information.
Tosh.