Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Adam_london_uk on April 10, 2009, 12:43:20 pm
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would you do it? Im thinking of cleaning another conservatory for free to get some amazing photos!
Went out last night and quote £50 for a conservatory roof glass in and out and outside frames.
Way to cheap I know but im sure he though it was to expensive. I did say it was a mornings work!
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Why not wait till you've done one then take your pics. The only thing you should do for free is MY custies and I will do the collecting? :)
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well I would love to lol where abouts are you?
My logic is that if I do this one which is the most minging you have ever seen then the photos will sell me many cleans afterwards.
Its not been touched in years AND its raining today so should come off easy.
Wadda you think. I only started knocking yesterday im a newbie and desperate for work.
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well I would love to lol where abouts are you?
My logic is that if I do this one which is the most minging you have ever seen then the photos will sell me many cleans afterwards.
Its not been touched in years AND its raining today so should come off easy.
Wadda you think. I only started knocking yesterday im a newbie and desperate for work.
I don't see the logic of doing it for nowt ??? By all means do the clean...then take the photos.
By the way, out of interest how will having before and after pictures get you more work?
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well I would love to lol where abouts are you?
My logic is that if I do this one which is the most minging you have ever seen then the photos will sell me many cleans afterwards.
Its not been touched in years AND its raining today so should come off easy.
Wadda you think. I only started knocking yesterday im a newbie and desperate for work.
Ah sorry mate, didn't realise about the newbie and desperate, but I still say don't clean for free. Er by the way, I'm in Germany, bit far even for a desp newbie ;D
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FREE :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
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Yes. Why not? But go for (i) family, (ii) friends, (iii) friends of family, (iv) friends of friends to get your Guinea pigs.
The more you do, the better you'll get and the better you'll be able to identify the problem areas.
Customers like it when you can tell them things like " those end caps on the roof spars can be delicate and difficult to clean. I always take extra special care that they don't get damaged," or "as long as I have line-of-sight to the roof it's OK. But this side is very close to the fence so I'll need to do it off a step ladder. That takes quite a bit longer so the price is a bit higher."
It does take a little experience to do this.
But it's worth it as (i) you'll close more deals and (ii) you'll close them at the price that you want. When the customer feels that you respect them and know what you're talking about, you'll close more and better business.
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FREE :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
;D
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Don't be an idiot cleaning it for free,no wonder people don't want to pay for a good service when people like you are doing it for nothing,thats the stupidest thing I've heard in months,if it's really bad you should be charging more,are you for real or is this a windup!
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Don't be an idiot cleaning it for free,no wonder people don't want to pay for a good service when people like you are doing it for nothing,thats the stupidest thing I've heard in months,if it's really bad you should be charging more,are you for real or is this a windup!
i agree with slash, sadly its not a windup ::)
your bills dont get paid by freebies :'(
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your bills dont get paid by freebies :'(
But they can be paid for by the referrals from freebies and by the experience that you get that add to your professionalism.
What these twits don't realise is that you're being smart enough to invest two or thee mornings in developing your skills (and doing nice things for people) and then going on to charge more to more customers.
Invest in more in yourself, and less in the advice of nay-sayers.
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My first conservatory, i did Free. This was only to get a idea of what was involved and how long it would take me.
just last year they phoned me up, as there old window cleaner had quit, and would i take over ;D So something good came of it.
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people don't like the F word on here ;D
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people don't like the F word on here ;D
should be banned ;D ;D
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Perhaps the offer of a "deal" to allow you to use the photo's?
So you look at a roof that you would charge say £60 for and you do it for £30/40 and take photo's at each stage. And ask that the custy will recommend you or be used as a referral.
But for free? No.
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Nothings free in this world, dont be so stupid. WHO THE HELL goes out door knocking and says hi i want to clean your conservatory for nothing. OMG i cant stress enough how pathetic that is. AT LEAST do it for a tenner. fgs man! :o
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would you do it? Im thinking of cleaning another conservatory for free to get some amazing photos!
Went out last night and quote £50 for a conservatory roof glass in and out and outside frames.
Way to cheap I know but im sure he though it was to expensive. I did say it was a mornings work!
aren't you glad you asked :D ;D :D
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Adam...no...your are offering your services..so charge for them...there is nothing wrong for doing the odd thing as a nicey when you are out and about on your round and you have say had a good week...but how much have you earnt this week? now is not really the time for handing out freebies...
I am sure that someone here will have a nice set of pics of a before and after you could have...
Now is the time to get the work and have it start to pay your bills...not for you to work and pay your customers bills.
Cheers and good luck
Dave.
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well the title certianly did the trick lol.
I didnt quite have free in mind but I would be saying. Give me what you think its worth at them end.
Having the pics printed up and showing them to potential customers in the future WILL generate business there is no 2 ways about it.
Image sells guys. Its ok if you have loads of work like you guys do but when just starting out then you have to take "desperate measures" as I am in a desperate situation.
What with a baby on they way.... like really really on the way...
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Lol you just said it yourself, your babys on the way and your taking risks by thinking doing some work for free will give you more work because you have pictures....
You charge them the full price, still take photos, and still show them. doing it free makes you look like a complete idiot and will get you no where. and even if u do get recommended because you done free work the people he recommended you to will think if u dont do it free you will do it for peanuts.
Your going downhill before you have even begun going up.
DONT do work for FREE ever!!
You have a kid on the way and need money! not thinking doing something for free will get you loads of work. IT WONT!
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well i plan on doing one con for free as i clean his pub and is one of the best pubs in my town. loads of good people in there and i will tell him to mention it too his custy's about how good a job i done on his.
always thinking
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Have I misunderstood something? I'd thought that Adam was thinking of doing one or two at zero cost - not spending his entire life working for free.
How many of us when we first started didn't spend days and days cleaning our own windows playing about with different amounts of different soaps for trad and different squeegee patterns or different techniques if wfp? I know that I did - and I still do from time to time.
How many of us cleaned our family's and friends' windows - and were really happy to get the experience before going out and canvassing up those first few jobs? And wasn't it useful so we could talk knowledgeably to even the first customer and give a sensible price from the beginning?
If Adam had his own conservatory, he'd be spending time cleaning it and getting really good skills and time-saving techniques. Before I did my first one, I cleaned my sister-in-law's conservatory inside and out loads of times.
Give the guy a break, will you?
Adam is going to get two things:
* He's going to get some brilliant photos that he can show prospects. He'll have some whole-conservatory pics, some showing how the glass sparkles when really clean and a few close-ups of algae-covered sills becoming sparkling clean. He'll print them on glossy paper and put them in a nice folder with a description of what each photo shows.
He'll show prospects the bits of grime in the frames of their conservatory and then show them the photos of the jobs that he's done. He'll point out the green lifeforms of the ridge capping and then show them before and after photos.
Because he's smart, he'll continue to get more photos as he gets more customers. He can put these on postcards in shop windows and on his web site as well as on flyers, if he gets a few printed.
* He's going to get valuable experience and it will show when he gives his first quotations.
Adam, I still think you're doing exactly the right thing. The only advice I would give is to do it through family and friends rather than total strangers.
Don't listen to the nay-sayers. If it works for you, then it works for the most important person. If it doesn't work for the nay-sayers, so be it.
Please yourself, Adam - and get the experience and then you'll get much more business much more quickly.
(I cleaned a Farm Shop for free in exchange for them displaying my leaflets. I got at least five regular, high-value customers from that. I'm sure that lots of others have done similar things.)
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Zano I think your missing the point dude.
I already run a successful internet business. One evening a customer calls and asks for a free product. gives me some spill.
So i decide to send him this free product and about 2 weeks later I get a call of his boss. The guys spends £600 with me.
Anyway back to the point, this customer judging by the neighbourhood would not be able to spend over £100 which is what the job is worth.
Nor do I think that the job will results in referrels etc.
BUT it will result in alot of very nice photographs that WILL impress new customers when I go door knocking.
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Hi Adam,
I don't want to come down on either side, you must do what you think is best.
From reading your back posts I get the impression that you seem to be unsure on many aspects of this trade.
I thought you were going out to canvass last night, how did you get on.
How will you clean this roof, trad or water fed.
I personally would not bother with portfolio as people buy people. (if they like you, you will get their work and recommendations.) That may be the time to take your pictures.
As you are starting out you just need to knock doors and speak to people. You will make mistakes, we all did but this is how we learn. But if you can't/won't do this at the start, this trade may not be the answer
To my final ramble, if you already run a successful business why on earth are you looking at window cleaning.
Tony
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Hi tony,
Well good question about starting in windows if I run a succesfull business.
Well it runs it self and the only input needed is to send out parcels every night! thats what my partner does.
That leaves me with lots of free time on my hands now. It would be ideal to have a flexible job and window cleaning certainly will offer that.
Your right Im very very new to this scene and im asking lots of questions.
I have a water fed pole but not a pure water setup yet as I just could not justify that expense at the moment.
if the work came in then yes but certainly not right now.
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Thanks Adam
How you getting on, have you been out yet
Tony
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Hi tony,
Well good question about starting in windows if I run a succesfull business.
Well it runs it self and the only input needed is to send out parcels every night! thats what my partner does.
That leaves me with lots of free time on my hands now. It would be ideal to have a flexible job and window cleaning certainly will offer that.
Your right Im very very new to this scene and im asking lots of questions.
I have a water fed pole but not a pure water setup yet as I just could not justify that expense at the moment.
if the work came in then yes but certainly not right now.
That last bit sounds a bit like the chicken and egg analogy. I've found that I've needed to invest in the equipment before the work comes in. The strange thing is that when I make the investment for certain tools (e.g. extra long poles), the work for it does seem to come in.
Your marketing style is a bit non-standard but maybe that's what is needed. No harm trying something a bit different.
Best of luck.
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I was out for an hour in the end. Weather was crap.
1st door I knocked on said window cleaner all ready does the road So I decided to just leaflet.
I knocked at 1 visable conservatory though and quoted very cheap just to get something under the belt. He will let me know.
and today well weather is :-X
Oh and just to add I have invested about £300 which does not include some proper ladders yet but im waiting untill the book has some customers on.
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You can come and clean my conservatory if you want to do it for free, I dont mind you taking some pictures either, honest :D
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Zano I think your missing the point dude.
I already run a successful internet business. One evening a customer calls and asks for a free product. gives me some spill.
So i decide to send him this free product and about 2 weeks later I get a call of his boss. The guys spends £600 with me.
Anyway back to the point, this customer judging by the neighbourhood would not be able to spend over £100 which is what the job is worth.
Nor do I think that the job will results in referrels etc.
BUT it will result in alot of very nice photographs that WILL impress new customers when I go door knocking.
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I haven't read this thread through as way too much.
In answer to your original post then I would say free can be a good investment of your time if you are just setting up. Not only gives you invaluable experience (what price training) but also as you say pictures for marketing to prove you can do what you say you can do. Try to keep free for close family and friends though and only whilst you are 'training'. They will be more forgiving if there are any problems.
One point though, before and after conservatory pictures aren't always that great. The don't quite show the reality unless absolutely filthy to start with.
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Adam Sweetheart, If you came a-knocking on my door with some before and after photos I'd think: "So what...anybody can use before and after photos...what's to say this was his work, and anyway he's showing me that the conservatory is clean...er..yes...it should be clean as that was what he was paid for"!
One other thing: Doing it for nothing could be counter-productive because since you're not getting anything out of it you're gonna think "bugger reaching into that corner it's too much effort...besides they're getting it for nowt anyway".
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Exactly simon if its good enough for the photo its good enough for me afterall its for free. Not breaking my back.
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Yes but how exactly can you "prove" that the work was yours?
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Well my ugly mug is going to be in one of the shots with uniform on. Also they are going to be printed as your average family album photo is.
So they will look genuine anyway. I really think its the best way forward.
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Well my ugly mug is going to be in one of the shots with uniform on. Also they are going to be printed as your average family album photo is.
Do not waste your money on a uniform yet, you have no customers.
So they will look genuine anyway. I really think its the best way forward.
I think it is over kill unless you are going for the topend business
Tony
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The only people who work for nowt are usually ordered to by the courts for some minor crime.
But for anybody else doing work for nowt is a ridiculous concept Adam but I wish you all good luck anyway.
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Well my ugly mug is going to be in one of the shots with uniform on. Also they are going to be printed as your average family album photo is.
So they will look genuine anyway. I really think its the best way forward.
Why have you invested in a uniform if you can't justify buying an RO unit? Start with the basics, you can't clean a window with a uniform.
Personally I have found that my business has gone in stages when I could afford it. I started out with a 75GPD RO when all I needed was DI (40PPM WATER) so I did make some mistakes along the way. I worked from my car with a backpack and 25ltd drums.
Once I could afford it I got a uniform and upgraded the car to a van and the backpack to a van mount. That increased my income and after a while I invested in an SLX. It is only a few days in but the SLX does seem to have increased my income again. The main point I am trying to make is that our business is cleaning windows so before anything else you should make sure you have at least the basic equipment to do just that.
Charging even half price for these conservatory roofs could be put towards a pure water setup.
Wally, I agree with your sentiment but not your timing. When you can't justify investing in a water production system then how can you justify working for free? Even if he gets loads of business he can't do it.
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im i missing something? why cant u charge for the job and take photoes as well???
??? ::) :o
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uniform cost me 15 quid!
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funny thread this. you're not actually doing it for free :o , ok your not doing it for money (blasphemy >:( ), but you are getting something you feel is valuable from it. make sure the pics are at a high res so you can show the detail
and if it turns out to be a foolish, you will learn from it and that is always valuable ;D
BUT no point to having poles if you do't have the pure water to send up them :P
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Adam...loads of good advice here from the starters to seasoned old boys...each has something to say of worth and equally we all spout nonesense from time to time.
The wonderful thing about the information given freely on this site is that you can have your fill on this buffet and take as much as you like or try little bits of this and that...you'll find your own way.
A very respected member of this forum helped me out no end when I started and without him I seriously doubt I would have passed the 6 month mark without failing very badly and using the last of my savings...god knows what situation I would be in now, I am based in Holland and did not speak the language)...but I took all his advice except he said offer 4 weekly and I was adament that I would offer 8 weekly as my 'norm'...and scheduled cleans (to the day).
In the end within 2,5 years I have a comfortable business I do scheduled cleans every 8 weeks...but 99.9% of his advice I took and ran with...
Most guys here have pretty good lifestyles considering they wipe and brush glass with rags, rubber and brushes...
Sit back write down all the pro's and cons of the advice and go 'do it'.
Seriously good luck...I await your war stories ;)
Dave.
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You run a very succesful internet business.....well sorry but i see no reason why you want to go into window cleaning.
Why dont you put all your efforts into expanding your internet business,that you surely must be able to do.
If i ran a succesful business like you in window cleaning i wouldn't go onto a forum and ask how to start up a internet business i would expand what i already know.
Ok some people like to diversify,but in times when wc's are losing work and being undercut by newbies some might just think you are taking the rise out of them.
Stick to what you know is my advice.
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When I started back in window cleaning, I targeted a new estate that they had just started building, every new customer had the first clean free, that was 15 years ago and I still do most of that estate.
It was the first free clean that gave me the edge over my rivals, it cost me nothing other than my time, as I didn't have a full round.
I know you will get the odd one that will take advantage, but the vast majority feel obligated having accepted the free clean.
That estate is now 6 working days of highly compact work, so free cleaning worked for me.
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I don't know why ppl are getting so worked up about this, I don't think its a bad idea at all. As far as marketing materials go, genuine photo's of you at work produce much better results than borrowed or stock photo's,.. so giving up perhaps a days income over the lifetime of your company is a very small price to pay.
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I promised myself that I wouldn't post again on this thread but I can't resist ::)
Firstly working for nothing is not a concept I understand.
And as for the before and after photos: OK, you take the first photo of a dirty window. You clean it and then take the second photo showing a clean window.
Fine! But what's your point? Surely your job is to make a dirty window clean? It's a bit like Asda taking photos of customers going into the store empty handed and then taking photos of them coming out with carrier bags...."Look! we've sold them food". Or your dry-cleaners taking a photo of a pair of trousers with a wine stain and then a second one without the wine stain..."Look! we got the stain out"
But more importantly; you do it for nowt...and take ages to get the glass up to pristine condition for your photo which you proudly show to all your prospective new customers...
If I were that customer I'd be expecting that same pristine standard (per the photo) and if you didn't produce that result I'd accuse you of misrepresentation and refuse to pay (the full amount).
Now be honest with yourself: Yes, as a one off, take-as-long-as-you-like-clean you'll get a great result...but are you going to do that day in day out...no you are not!...unless of course you're going to go top-end and spend a day on a conservatory and charge £200...which I suspect you're not.
Trust me and others on here. Do a half reasonable job, charge half reasonable prices and the recommendations will come naturally.
Oh! and few people look for or indeed expect "perfection".
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Oh! and few people look for or indeed expect "perfection".
And when you find one of these they should be avoided like the plague.
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Giving something 'free' to someone means that they will see no value in what they recieve. You always have to charge to make the person percieve a value.
Practice your work at their expense, take photos, etc and seek referrals, no problem - but always charge the customer something.
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Cleaned a house this morning in exchange for 12 bags of year old horse muck. Not really for free but my veggies will be happy this year!
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Doing front and back gutters tomorrow for £10.00.
Again for promotional matarial and its a family friend!
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I just cleaned the inside roof (only ) of my mums conservatory, and i even charged her £50.00 !!!
Mr B
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Think you were ripped off mate, 50 quid? Should have taken more!!! ;D
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I just cleaned the inside roof (only ) of my mums conservatory, and i even charged her £50.00 !!!
Mr B
You're proud of that Mr B? ... there must be more to this than meets the eye!
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Firstly working for nothing is not a concept I understand.
Sometimes, by donating your time and effort for free, you can get payment not in cash, but in feeling good about yourself.
I've done voluntary work for a cause I believe in; and I do understand that there's no such thing as a totally unselfish act; and the payment I received was that I felt good about myself and can take the moral high-ground in discussions like this.
But cleaning someone's windows for free; a strangers; goes against my grain. Surely the OP can find a customer with a house that fits the bill he's looking for; for his interweb pics?