Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: paul@ctcs on April 08, 2005, 08:54:59 pm
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Hi Guys,
With the poll being anonymous it would be interesting to see how small business men like ourselves are planning to vote. I dont mind admitting that having studied the manifestos I'm leaning towards the conservatives especially as I've lost all faith in all that Tony Blair comes out with :(
Paul
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Icant stand lionel blair or tony blair dont trust the cons much but who else is there
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Sorry Paul
Its tony again this time for me mate
Paul
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Each to there own mate :) Imigration and crime are two things I feel are letting our country down and I feel the Blues have the best policies on these subjects.
And dont mention the war ;D
Paul
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They are all as bad as each other ::)
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I’ve always vote con though I come from a lab background
They all say one thing today and change it tomorrow, wish I could pull that stunt with customers.
Paul I did apologise one plant they did miss was Rovers or did they?
Len
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Cant be worse than Labour who ever gets in!!
16000 imagrants are coming in every year, thats the population of Peterborough!!!
The conservatives will have a capping system like in Austrailia :D
Paul
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The wmd were smuggled out by the russias before we invaded. Anthrax was sold to the Irag by the Yankies, which is why they knew they had it.
Cons in power-Lets not forget 15% interest rates, 3 million unemployed, loads of house owners losing properties, a nation of I'm alright jack - f you attitude and countless other problems that this labour government has had to reverse.
Immigration is a problem that has to be sorted, I agree,
and fianlly let me add that when ever you have a conservative government you have an increase in unemployment.
vote tory, I would rather support Ipswich!!!
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Voted OTHER
Been accused of worse :-X
" you say it like it's a bad thing !! "
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Nothing wrong with Ipsiwch mate ;)
Unemployment figures can be fiddled, I know I have never had a problem being employed, quite the opposite in fact!! I feel a majority of unemployed either dont want to work or are so useless, lazy or stupid they make themselves unemployable.
Paul
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Don't start me off on politics....
Can you really ever see Micheal Howard or Charles Kennedy leading this country, I used to vote conservative many moons ago, but not now. Labour are more right wing than the Tories now.
Personally I would like to see Gordon Brown take charge of Labour, he's done a cracking job on stabilising the economy and interest rates, if you could get them to adopt some of the Tory policies on immigration we would be moving forward.
What we need is a celebrity policeman, celebrity teacher, celebrity immigration officer, celebrity nurse, etc, etc .. to go with the celebrity chef (Jamie Oliver) then things might start getting better!! Oh and a celebrity carpet cleaner & window cleaner as well.
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gordon brown ? doing a good job ?
we can all lend & throw money at the country.
to make figures look good.
anyway who ever gets in, need extra 2% from taxes
in next 4 years. which equallys 24 billion.
recession is coming, be warned , no new house , car ,
tighten your belts.
and sit tight, get a fixed moragage at least for 8 years while rates are low.
search internet its way world works ups & downs,
the rich make money out of it, and the rest of us pay.
thanks darren
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Gordon Brown...is this the same Gordon Brown who is syphoning off 'five billion a year' from 'your' pensions?
I do agree that Politicians in general are naff but this lot (New Labour) we have at the moment are the most untrustworthy shower we have ever had
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Cant be worse than Labour who ever gets in!!
16000 imagrants are coming in every year, thats the population of Peterborough!!!
The conservatives will have a capping system like in Austrailia :D
Paul
so where else will you get cleaners prepared to work for £4.85 an hour....
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I cant see micheal howard standing up to anyone he's a whimp, paul its labour or libs for me i like the idea in abolishing council tax for a local income tax. more you earn more you pay but how many self employed show huge profits paul
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Nothing like a bit of politics to bring out the passion in people, but can anyone really differentiate between the general manifesto's of the three main parties? I can't. As far as I can see they are all steering their ships in the same general direction, it's just that they each have a different captain and crew, take your choice on who you feel safest with.
I would like to see the Libs given a chance, but it's a very big risk, our local MP is Alan Beith (Libs) and he is okay, but not outstanding. We're still waiting for the A1 to be dualled all the way to Edinburgh and there has been no real investment in encouraging large industry into this area.
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??? ??? ???Gordon Brown doing a good job ??? ??? ???
All those stealth taxes have fooled you then!
Anyone can run a country by taxing it to death.
You think you pay a lot now.
There is a masive black hole in the ecconomy, after the Election you will all pay!!!!!!
As for employment, about 50% of the population work for less than £5 per hour in the mass retail sector, shops, Supermarkets & Garden Centers.
This keeps the employment figures down.
Phil
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Wake up!!!!
Minimum wage was abolished by the Tories.
Now back, it has been raised a couple of times by Labour and should go up again. If we had no minimum wage what would half the country be working for then?
Interset mortage rate at their lowest for decades and have stayed that way for ages.
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Since Tony Liar whoops sorry Blair was elected in 97 we have got or had the following.
1. 863,000 additional public sector employees ( nice way to massage unemployment figures )
2. Over a million people on long term incapacity benefit instead of unemployment benefit again massaging unemployment figures
3. 64 stealth taxes and they are keeping quiet about their plans for national insurance contributions post election.
4. Claims of rigged postal voting
5. A junior minister admitting that 9/11/2000 was a good day to bury bad news
6. British armed forces sent to fight a illegal war, then to suffer the idignation of the cutting of historical regiments, cases of soldiers having to buy equipment in Iraq
7. Peter Mandelson involvement in the cash for passports scandal
8. Increased anti social behaviour, our government answer is to make pubs open for 24 hours
If this was a tory government it would have been hounded out of office for all of the above and i haven't mentioned Bliar's desire to sign away our constitution to become president of a federal europe.
And no before you ask i don't vote labour.
Cheers Mark
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1.So thats 863k given jobs instead of getting benefit,
2.1 million ill, or unemployed, still a little short of 3 million under tory
3.an increase in taxes, like there has never been a government take does this
4. remember tories moving the boundaries for voting,
5. Carry out all the time
6. Don't get me started on this,
7. cash for questions.
8. pubs are open 24hr, and about time. anti-social behaviour needs stopping, you can have that, but not a government fault just life as it is.
and as for the future did not know you could read it.
what about the foxes been given a lease of life?
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sorry forgot the riots
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Lesbian,Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Policy Officer £26k to £28k to help members of LGBT to access council services .
£26k to teach em how to pick up a phone and dial the council ? Thats where all our stealth taxes go and theres hundreds more "posts" like this available under labour.
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I've always been a true blue. Having said that, I find Tony Blair to be an almost acceptable face of socialism. But there are so many left wingers standing in the wings waiting for the president to retire. Until the advent of New Labour, the socialists were unelectable. TB's most likely successor is to the left of centre. I'm not comfortable with that.
A lot of praise has been heaped on the Chancillors success. The way I read it, Kenneth Clarke had got everything moving in the right direction. The new man at No 11 had a really good place to start and just made his own tweaks to suit the new doctrine.
Safe and happy voting :)
Ken
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The bank of england control interest rates anyway not GB...plus we can all hark back to the major years...Maggie gave you the right to buy ya council house sorted the unions and completely overhauled the country from what i can see.
I was only a kid but i can remember my dad on a 3 day week and waiting for the electric to come back on etc etc rubbish piling up outside while the binmen strike..but you could go on and on about previous gov's ....new labour have had 8 years and should stand by what they did not go on about tory rule from almost a decade ago.
The old tory values always appealed to me as standing on your own 2 feet whereas labour were the opposite until blair/brown took on those values to get in power ...i get the feeling old labour is starting to shine through again ..i refer you to my previous post ;)
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Karl,
You cant base an argument on what happened the best part of ten+ years ago, mistakes are bound to be made and in hindsight this is easy to see.
Labour have let this country down in many ways and IMO cant be trusted to do whats best for most of us anymore, I cant stand the governments feeble aproach to crime, Its pathetic!! We need more prisons with appropiate sentences to put the scum bags off the idea of repeat offending and if they continue bang em up for good!!
Gypsies are another problem that the conservatives should improve, they and so many others get off on Human Rights >:( with things as they are serious problems are inevitable.
The UK is going to the dogs and it needs a government with balls!
Paul
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On the subject of Mortgage Rates. I keep a personal ledger recording my personal finances and Mortgage rates going back to 1995. All figures below are for Nationwide.
April 95 8.44%
Oct 95 7.95%
Gradually decreasing until at Election May '97 6.99%
Now under Labour
Jun '97 7.35%
Aug '97 7.85%
Sept '97 8.1%
Sept '98 8.5%
Nov '98 8.2%
Then a gradual reduction with an occasional blip to a low point of :
Aug '03 4.54%
Nov '03 4.89%
Mar '03 5.14%
Gradual increases until:
Sept '04 5.99% Current rate.
The trend I observe is that the outgoing Tory Govt in '97 Were on a downward run which in May '97 was only 1% higher than present. We are currently on an upward run from a low of 4.54% in Aug '03 to the current 5.99% The real effect on my mortgage payments in monetary terms has been to increase them by a whopping 45% and the likelyhood is that the next movement will be upwards again.
Ken
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Karl,
While there is some merit in your criticism of previous tory govts, you neglect a few points, namely that in 1979 they inherited a economy that was on its knees and the country was being led by the union paymasters of labour. The same year was the winter of discontent rubbish was not being collected all down to union using strike power.During the eighties the tory govt did create the environment to amass wealth through your endeavours. yes i admit their was a negative side to that.
But what about the negative side to all that new labour is fostering upon us the minimum wage is a good idiea but how long before how manufacturing industries are price out of business due to the more competitive areas like eastern europe and the south east asian countries.
It seems this govt only way of resolving social problems is to issue a on the spot fine i.e. fining bar staff for serving heavy/binge drinkers hardly getting to the root of the problem there.
They are now talking about increasing paid maternity leave to 12 months how many small businesses will be able to absorb the additionals cost that will incur.
I not just some tory having a moan, personally i would like to see, third world debt eradicated, tougher punishment for criminals and better care for the elderly and vulnerable.
One last thing since we got this umbrella act the human rights bill, its uncanny how many high profile cases reported in the media the prosecuting qc is mrs cherie booth what a coincidence?
Cheers Mark.
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ken - you pay 45% more now at 5.99% than you did at 8.44%, and you have not increased your mortgage. Thats strange,
Paul - Fair enough no mention of old. 10 years is to far back.
To reduce crime would mean more police, more prisons, more prison officers and therefore an increase in spending which can only come from one source, the taxpayer.
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Karl.................the riots in Brixton were great fun for some :-X
plus i never had to put my heating or hot water on at all.
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Dusty - I agree old labour was no good, the unions had too much control, but that was 26 years ago.
Would you like to see people being paid less than £4.85?
I never knew who Mrs. Blair was until Mr. Blair got to No.10, so her media present comes with her husband's job, you do not hear of any other high profile prosecuting qc's cos no one would give a damn about who they are.
I agree with your 3rd world debt, better care for elderly etc
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But what about the negative side to all that new labour is fostering upon us the minimum wage is a good idiea but how long before how manufacturing industries are price out of business due to the more competitive areas like eastern europe and the south east asian countries.
How long?? Its already happening :( As an engineer I have seen huge job losses over the past 3 years in this country due to losing contracts to the middle and far east countries.
Paul
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Yes the foxes highlight what this government is about wastes loads of parliamentary time on a minor but emotive issue such as foxhunting whilst failing to deliver on key areas such as education,health, crime unless you call adding layers of bureacracy progress.
Cheers Mark.
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The 4.1 billion and counting wasted on the war could have done so much good If Tony wasnt trying so hard to please Bush.
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Karl
You've probably misread my post. The difference between my mortgage repayments of Aug 03 4.54% and the present 5.99% is that the repayment, on the same mortgage, has increased by45% in monetry terms. That is purely interest without capital. If others have access to their repayments during these times, work it out for yourselves. It might only be a change of 1.45% but the ££££'s can hurt all but the lucky few (like me :) ) And as I said, look at my figures above and you will see a very definate upward trend.
Ken
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I personally do not think it is healthy for a country to have the same party in for more than 2 elections they tend to get a bit too big for their own boots and taking advantage thinking that they public will always vote for them, here in Sheffield where it can be very working class in the big vote people usually go for Labour but in the smaller vote between general elections there is the occassional swing to the Libs, I am tactically voting Libs as Conservative have no chance here and a vote for Libs will hopefully upset the balance and not give Labour a seat here.
Shaun
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But the same Faceless people will be pulling the strings from their offices in Whitehall they never change they just pull the In Parliment Parties strings!!
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well said John, the power of whitehall controls the long term,
and sorry Ken still don't see your point. The mortage rate has decline over the last 6 years (over 3%) and therefore you must have saved money, now it is up 1.5% and you are complaining. Remember 15%, now thats worth moaning about,
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a 1/4 % on 5 is a lot more then a 1/4% on 10 Paul
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so paul you woruld perfer a 10.25% mortgage than a 5.25% mortgage
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If I expressed my honest beliefs here, or publicly, I would be accused of Racial Discrimination.
So, let me say that I am old enough to remember the speech made by Enoch Powell and at the time I realised it was a wake-up call to the British public.
Regrettably, he was ignored and we are in the position now where, according to recent figures, there will shortly be more recent immigrants in the UK than the entire population of Scotland.
It's a very unfortunate fact of life in this country, that government at national and local level are, reactive.
Nothing happens until there is a crisis-disaster-tragedy, bit like 'holes in the road'
What we need, I think, is someone with the guts to stand up and say what the public really think and start a remedial process.
We have a clown in Scotland called Jack McConnell who claims that Scotland needs 1500 or so, immigrants each year to fill job vacancies.
Like most of you, as I drive around daily and see literally hundreds of young unemployed people, many are the partners of 'single parents' many will never work, many are stuck in a subculture of drink and drugs.
Virtually all of these people are capable of training, some to levels well beyond there aspirations, or expectations.
Finally, I'd like to know;-
What's wrong with marraige
What's wrong with NOT drinking alcohol
What's wrong with being honest-moral-concerned for others
Yes I am married No I'm not a 'holy willie' No I don't drink alcohol. Was a social drinker for a while but never drunk to get ped. Anyone who does has problems.
The last few lines are directed at society in general !
rm
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If I expressed my honest beliefs here, or publicly, I would be accused of Racial Discrimination.
Only in the News last week a leader of one Political Party voiced his opinions in public and now himself and the founder of that same Party have ended up in court!!!
What ever happened to Free Speach??
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Paul you think the unemployed our layabouts.
John Major and Norman Lamont thought it was a price well worth paying.
It was your taxes that had to pay for that.
Labour is often asked where does the money come from to pay for increase in Education Spending, More Police etc
The answer is from more people working and not being latabouts
I hope those of you who complain about foriegn workers do not employ them in your cleaning companies.
One of the biggest scandals in this country at the moment is the explotation opf Foriegn workers by Gangmasters. Most of them are British although they might hide behind a Rusian front man
In 1990 many hard working small companies went to wall.
PRior to that many coal miners were made redundant and found it hard to find work. I think Paul is saying life is easy down the mine.
Ken has been selective in his interest rate figures. What about Black Monday.
You can tell what side I am on but as Karl pointed out to me once you just got to look on the internet.
Tony Blair servers excellent wine I also hope to drink some of Gordon Browns when he takes over.
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PRior to that many coal miners were made redundant and found it hard to find work. I think Paul is saying life is easy down the mine.
Ian,
This is a rather unique exception, I appreciate that alot of good guys struggled to find work and I've no doubt they wanted too.
All the long term unemployed I have had the pleasure of meeting are either bone idle and content to sponge money from the state, or such low life there unemployable :o
Maybe I'm a snob :)
Paul
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Problems with Political Party be local or national, do I look good and give the relevant bull to get elected, ££££ in my bank, but are they patriots don’t think so!
Paul
Not a sob but a realist!
Len
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Hi Guys,
My twopenneth.
In the 70's Labour were an absolute disaster and the country really was going to the dogs.
I remember that when I started in industry that union activists were only interested in causing trouble ,were very negative and spoke left wing rubbish.
Maggie changed all that through years of struggle but as the Tories became more entrenched then corruption started to creep in , greed took over .
Ironically Ken Clarke was a good chancellor and had really got the economy going in the right direction when New Labour came to power.This is why our Ken's figures show a steady mortgage rate as they leave off the Lamont years.
Traditionally Labour started destroying the economy from day one BUT in Gordon Brown they had a guy who understood economics.
His first masterstroke was to transfer setting of interest rates to the Bank of England , the markets were calmed , the pound remained steady.
His second masterstroke was to build slowly and steadily so that real improvement was made.
The danger for me is that another Labour term could see the continuation of thier gradual decline and corruption, but the Tories don't seem ready and the Lib Dems wouldn't have the quality.
I think the best result would be a small labour majority 20-30 seats with the Tories returning in 5 years time
As Karl Marks said 'power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely' and he was right , look at Mugabe!
Cheers,
Doug
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Mugabe is an anagram in Yorkshire for 'ebagum' touch ya belly touch ya bum!
Shaun
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You still standing for the BNP, Shaun??
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10 yrs ago i asked a respectable 50 yr old couple we know 5 questions with yes or no answers. The replies equated to agreeing with BNP policy.
You ask the same 5 questions today and most people will give the same answers.................. even if they would not agree with such policies or parties.
The parties we have had running this country have turned it into the dumping ground of Europe, and the laughing stock.
England will never become a nation of racial harmony and IMO, the most racially motivated people are the ones that originate from elsewhere ???
My kids best friends are SriLankan and 2 fellas in my quiz team are West Indian, so i am not a white hood wearing, cross burning racist. I am a realist and feel that the longer the immigration situation is left untouched, the sooner the majority of people in this country will start to feel the same. Many of the assylum scroungers/seekers came from countries of civil unrest and from wars between factions................ that could happen here eventually. ( I sympathise with assylum seekers but the fact that they travel through a minimum of 2/3 countries to get here make me put them in the scrounger bracket. Here is where they get easy passage to house, school, medical and more civil rights than the natives :-X)
Rant over and now i go to work to raise some taxes for another assylum seekers hostel somewhere ::)
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Chris,
Your spot on!! I'm not a racist at all and like you I know a few guys that are not british but niether are they scoungers. We need a government that accesses each immigrent regardless of how long they have been here, If they offer nothing to our economy, unskilled, dont even speak our language, etc then they should be sent packing.
We have enough lazy british people to support already!!
On that note :) why are the longterm unemployed not made to work for there benefits? similar to community service like litter clearing,etc. Give them x number of days for "holiday" where if they dont show up they loose a day, once they use it all and continue to not work then they are given nout or at best minimal benifits.
This will get them working and give us a better place to live ;D
Paul
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I think we should do what the germans are now doing with their long term unemployed. They can't claim benefit without doing some form of community service i.e. litter picking ,helping clear canals that sort of thing. We as a society have lost the work ethic get the lazy tossers off the dole and doing something productive for the benefit of the community.Secondly while i'm having a rant lets say enough is enough and do something about the way our youth are imperious to any form of authority, whew glad thats off my chest.
Cheers Mark.
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Here Here :) :) :)
We should form our own party, I'm sure we could but this country back on track ;D
So who wants to be leader???
Paul
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LEN GRIBBLE FOR PRESIDENT ;D
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The easy answer is...make everyone self employed...you don't work you don't eat!
How many days have you taken off sick recently?
Self employed people don't get sick, no benefits either
Derek
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Too right, I'm nursing a hernia op and 6 and half weeks later I am still waiting for my incap. benefitt to be paid. A huge £55.90 a week. To think of all the tax I have paid and I get £55.90, bloody cheek.
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Cheers Steve for the nomination I except.
Len
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Viva le revolution
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Hey hang on a minute Len, that nomination has NOT been seconded so you cannot accept.
But seen you are a Man of the World although you may be South of Watford Gap my mate Sheffield Shaun say your not a Bad Bloke.
Therefore I second your nomination for El President.
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John you can be Chancellor, or do you want to be in control of foreign affairs :o
Chris Straker can be in charge of National Security.
Mike Haliday spin doctor.
John Bolton culture secretary.
Nick VW incharge of the NHS with his Alergy STOP
Steve Gunn could also be a chancellor because he's a bit Minty!!
Shaun
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Thanks Shaun...........................I think ???
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Paul,
We are never going to agree politically but I can asure you it is not New Labour policy to encourage long term unemployment, scroungers etc.
There have been hit squads from the Dept of Employment actually hitting the streeys in areas of unemployment and forcing these people into training or work.
Single Mothers have also been encouraged to go back to work. Some might disagre.
People who claim to have a disability which was greatley encouraged under the Conservatives to keep unemloyment figures down are also encouraged to find work, or have to go through more stringent tests to prove their disability.
I agree there are some people who could do with a long visit to a boot a camp, met a few last night while out canvassing.
I will certainly be feeding that into the Polcy Forums over the next year.
What really gets me about The Conservitives is they never aploigised for mass unemployment, record repossesins and record business bankruptcy.
As for MSa or what ever it is called it is being dealt with.
Only Key worrkers are given the right to stay long term.
We do need to look at Employment Agencies and Gangmasters who are allowed to bring people in on six month contracts. But if numbers were cut processing industry and farmers would not be very happy. And all those people with million pound property potfolos who let out their houses, which are often overcrowded, and have multiple bed occupancy throughout the day.
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AT LAST ;D
Someone else voted other ::)
At least 2 of us have the cajones to say it rather than think it quietly :-X
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Ian
You are quite obviously a Labour die hard but have you stopped to ask yourself 'why' the Tories were in Government for so long?
Derek
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Were is the Welsh party ! :D
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One of the biggest scroungers in this country are un-married Mothers, many of them who continue to have children with invisable fathers.
I still cant understand how I and many others have to pay for someone elses children.
Also this might may rattle a few cages, but I always thought the Poll Tax was a brilliant idea, everyone made a contribution unlike now where many people earning are getting local services for free.
Phil
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Was the poll tax just for working people ? did the students etc get allowances to help pay ? i can't remember ...if so then linking council tax to earnings (as some are suggesting now cos of the sky high rate) won't be much different would it ?
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Poll tax a good idea?
I shared a house with 2 mates our house rates went from below £1,000 to £3,000. We did not think that was a good idea, and judging by the riots lots of others agreed.
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Poll tax/Community charge...its all a Governments way of getting 'two' big bites of the same cherry...Then there is indirect taxation of course.
No wonder the black economy is flourishing
Derek
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No wonder the black economy is flourishing :o :o :o :o
Now Now you know you are not allowed to say that out loud ;D
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Karl,
OK karl I dont think that Council Tax is fair, shall I go out and riot then. Your comments give the impression the riots were justified.
They were just thugs who suddenly were having to pay for something they were getting for free prevoiusly.
Not sure what you mean by house rates, your poll tax would have been the same as everyone else. Whats your problem with that.
Phil
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Human greed and blind folly are slowly sucking the life out of this planet. Think hard about our legacy to future generations and find the candidate who has the best environmental credentials.
If the Green Party have a candidate in your area, I suggest voting for that person. It is no use saying that your vote will be wasted. What is the alternative? For a list of candidates, go to
http://www.greenparty.org.uk/files/election/ge05-provisional%20candidates%20list.html
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Paul,
so maybe everyone should have signed a petition, and say we don't think the poll tax is fair. When people get totally peed about something, they put they point across anyway they like, as long as someone listens, hence 'lets riot'. Actually you will find it was a peaceful demo, that ended in a riot, the orginal idea was not to riot but to demo, but when you get that many anger people that are fed up with no one listening, you get a problem.
I thought that the poll tax replace the house rate system, or was I living on another planet.
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Thought the poll tax was a fair way of taxing, more you have in home more you pay the same as road tax do away with and put it on fuel, that way no road tax evaders.
Neil
Green party??? Have a problem pushing my TM around would have to revert back to
(http://img73.echo.cx/img73/8138/h5452665pd.jpg)
Wonder what the cost would be in fines for fouling the roadway, don’t think every one would run out to pick it up for there roses!
Len
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I do beleive in east anglia we are about about to get our homes revalued so we'll all be paying yet more council tax very soon. I think as a single occupier and being self employed a link to earnings could suit me...even with my single persons allowance.
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Thing is, when rates changed to poll tax, big houses under the old rates system became cheaper and small houses became more expensive. So the rich saved money and the poor had to pay more.
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True....i was 17/18 i think when i paid the poll tax and i wasn't happy about it at that age having had mummy and daddy paying the rates ...but now i'm more mature i see everyone benefits from the services and teenagers make the most mess so tax the buggers on their income and and we all might benefit from better services. Also a link to income would greatly help pensioners on low incomes and the self employed who have a lot of their living costs go through their books. I'm not actually sure if any of the main parties are advocating this but i must have read it somewhere !
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Lib dem are going down that line, and letting the old people keep their houses instead of selling them to pay for their care (another tory rule).
Problem is no one will give the libs a chance, and judging by this would rather put the evil tories back in power, god help us all
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I think all the main parties have some good ideas...most of the lib dems are far fetched tho,labour are stale now...they promise and don't deliver...tories are being held back by past mistakes but labour made a lot more leading to 18 years of tory rule and they had to become more tory than the tories to get in.
It will boil down to the major topics, immigration taxes etc etc at the mo i can't see the tories winning because it would take a massive swing to achieve that maybe another 4 years for labour with a very small majority or a hung parliment. Altho there are a few weeks to go and i've been suprised so far how much Blair isn't liked these days and howard isn't getting as much stick as i thought he would.
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Call me an old cynic!
Most of our votes won't count for anything anyway.
This election will be decided by 838,000 voters in Labour marginal constituencies.
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Karl,
What makes you think people in big houses are rich and people who live in smaller houses are poor.
Poll tax had nothing to do with how big or small your house was anyway.
Why should the size of your house have anything to do with how much you pay on public services. ???
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Recently New Labour have upset so many people that I believe they are currently embarked on a frantic damage limitation excercise.
The five billion theft each year from pensions haven't helped them, neither has the recent bodged attempt at banning the fox hunt.
Then there's Messrs. Mandelson, Campbell and Vaz to name but three who have caused a bit of a bother for them too.. I won't even mention the war in Iraq
Derek
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Labour do put on the 'United Front' for the public though, but behind closed doors serious squabbling does go on, Gordon and Tony know that for them to reach their goals that Labour must retain power so the axe must firmly be buried while the campaigning is on but IT WILL rear it's ugly head again.
Shaun
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Problem with most people is they only see whats in front of them what labour dont want to tell you the next budget represents one of the biggest tax increases in the last ten years
This years budget was kept low just for the election
Plus within 2 years we will enter the euro market which will decrease our strong market
Unemployment hasnt gone down new deal courses class as employment
I think its about time they privatise the nhs and cut our taxes
Kill national insurance and make us sort our own pensions
Oh and what about the 1000 speed cams that are going up on the motorways where the money for that going
tony blairs pocket
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Paul
Cameras.... don't forget congestion charges in London (going up)..possibly extending to other Towns and Cities near you...soon.
The recent one-off 'bribe' to the 'grey voters' of £200... to be picked up later on after the election... of course.
Europe...this was sold to Joe Public originally as a Trading deal.. that was Ted Heath of course... isn't it funny that once they get in Government all the politicians attitudes change, perhaps its when they set their eyes on the gravy train. Lets get out of Europe...we can do so much better on our own
As for Mr Tony B Liar..how can you trust a guy with more twist and turns than a curley whirley.
I think you can put me down as 'undecided'
Derek
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Think a bet on a hung parliament would be a good bet Paul
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Paul,
I noticed all the mansions in the local council estate, and all the small two up and two downs in the 200 acres of land.
Poll tax has everything to do with the size of your house, band a are flats and small houses, band f are larger houses than band a and you pay more.
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Shaun,
As you know I have no wish to quarell with you, but do you know of any organization where people agree 100 % although they agree about the General Direction they should be heading.
Where other people do not want the top job.
Indeed what kind of organization would it be if everyone agreed with the head man if no one was prepared to arque with him .
If no one else wanted his job and thought it was time for him to move on.
Hope to speak to you after Election ;D ;D
Regards
Ian
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Blimey!! Have you guys seen the Lib Dems manifesto?
There ideas on Tax are bad news, If you and the Mrs bring in over 38k pa then your tax will increase, this has to be nearly eveyone!!
If you earn over 80k which is where we should all be heading will result in 50% tax :o :o :o
Paul
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50% i cant live on £500,000 a year forget the libs im of to whee the imergrantes comming from loads of empty houses
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Did any of you listen to Jeramy Vine on Radio 2 today, when the phone in woman told Tony Blair to get hold of himself and get Into The Real World??
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No but i bet theres a few on here who would like to get hold of him and shake him into the real world
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Although we cant vote over here in Northern Ireland I would be happy to see Labour re -elected. I would be quite ignorant regarding political issues, especially on the mainland, however "Peace time" in Northern Ireland is a far step away from the days of war that I grew up in and certainly do not want my two young children to experience the sometimes daily activities of both the police and the paramilitaries that I was subjected to growing up.
Personally I associate Tony Blair and Labour with Peace time in Northern Ireland
As far as our local elections go I dont vote because the representatives of the community from different parties could not agree on the colour of the sky and I believe spend more time talking b**ls trying to get one over each other than dealing with issues that could better the community.
At a rough estimate I would say 35% of candidates have been in jail. This is across both communities.
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Neil im sorry to say this the only reason that labour pushed the peace protest was to stay on the side of bush. Who has intimadated this goverment since comming in to power they are his little puppets and to continue to let america push us around undermines every thing this country has every belived in. ie the only reasons that they wanted us in the gulf war was
They needed to send us in and sort all the c@&p out
also it would of sent america into the red causing a recession they needed our finance
now the only country to profit thru it was america
What this country needs is a goverment who can stand on its own 2 feet and tell the bullies to p**s off but at present we havent got that in any off the parties
this is my own opinion
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Point fot you Conservitive people to remember.
Only one Major Party was against war.
Conservitives would have us out of EU and have stronger links with US.
Tax
Maggie Thatcher doubled National Insurance and VAT in 1979.
She then increased VAT yet again.
Companies pay less tax as % of profits under Labour.
You pay less Income Tax under Labour as a % of Earnings
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paul@scc
God bless America
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Ian,
Typical politicans use of stats ;)
In 1979 Vat was doubled to allow big cuts in income tax.
Top rate was reduced from 83%(marginal98%) to 40%, you may ask who would pay that higher rate , answer was not many as tax take actually went up as people stopped fiddling it!
Cheers,
Doug
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But she did not tell us she was going to do that. Plus all the shopkeepers took advantage and put their prices up. The fact is someone has got to pay for hospitals schools police etc but nobody wants too.
Including me . ;D ;D But if we did not have them an constantly wanting higher standards it would not be a very pleasant place to live.
Doug
Can I join the UK Carpet Cleaners
Please ;D ;D ;D
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Ian,
You are welcome to join UK Carpet Cleaners , the cost is £500 per annum, of which 61 pence will be spent on admin and the rest on beer :o
Cheers,
Doug
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Ian
The 'glorious' Scot Mr Gordon Brown has to all accounts increased taxation by more stealthy means...all ninety odd of 'em...just so that he can say he hasn't raised income tax...
Plus the five billion 'a year stolen' from the pension fund... yours too sunshine
Perhaps that's what they mean when they talk about a 'canny Scot' ;) I always wondered
They are all as bad as each other...only this lot are a bit worse methinks
Derek
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I am dissapointed that the N.O.T.A. party is not listed above.
Because thats how I will be voting;
NONE OF THE ABOVE
Not one of them is worth voting for the Tory's might have gained some ground if they had come out and said they will take us out of Europe after that fat liar Ted Heath took us in under false pretences.
But they won't do that, so its another 4 years of the TB & GB show despite that they lied about the war,lied in their own manifesto about university fees.lied about MG Rover,lied abour MRSA,lied about tax increases,lied about the european constitution and just about any thing else you can think of.
Fleeced every single motorist in the country and criminalised tens of thousands of other wise- law abiding citizens by imposing penalty points and fines when ever humanly possible. Fleeced house buyers & owners alike.
Only the arrogance of this goverment would put a women in charge of ministry for children (Patricia Hodge) a cronie who ignored for years when she was leader of Islington Borough Council (Tony's local) systematic child abuse in care homes by organised peodaphiles, despite being informed on numerous occasions of case after case, some of whom have since commited suicide
We get the goverment we deserve, if people boycoted the election then we might get some change in the system but it will never happen and come this time next year we will still be moaning about the goverment we/you elected ::)
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ready for this ::)
this country needs another maggie
we are going to pot and the plot has been lost
Dave
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Please god........................ NO
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I gotta agree with dave we need someone whos got the bottle to tell the truth
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I agree I hate what this country has turned into >:( >:(
There are too many do gooders now and the decent british citizens who want to work for a living are the ones who pay the price >:(
On the news today there is a story of fireman who whilst tackling fires which is dangerous enough are finding themselves targeted by youths throwing bricks and stones :o What is going on??!! These little bast@rds are and will always be the cancer of our country >:( >:(
They breed far more than decent folk aswell, so where will we be in ten or twenty years???
This kind of thing really gets me going, I would shoot the lot of them >:( >:(
If I thought there was a party that would get tough on these scum bags they would get my vote.
Paul
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Sir Ian Blair the met top honcho thinks ID cards are good, only problem here they know where the illegal reside, but cant & wont do anything about it! Something to do with cost! But they can spend a fortune on keeping the like of BIGGS in jail!
Also noticed driving though my local high street posters about neighbour hood watch, what ever that means? :( :(
Len
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As soon as my numbers come up I'm off...
Regards Kevin
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If you read through all the posts with their diverse comments, there is a concensus of opinion there that some things are just not right... those of us whatever political persuasion have identified the areas badly needing attention.
If we can see it why can't the politicians?
They have the power to do something about it, so why don't they?
Is it that they are far too busy feathering their own nests?
Incidentally by most of the Country choosing not to vote will leave the odds and sods who do vote deciding for the rest of us...now that is frightening.
MAYBE VOTING SHOULD BE COMPULSORY? :-\
Derek
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I met a man recently who has a nationwide overseas property company.
He told me that it is estimated that the amount of people moving abroard this year will be more than in the last 10 years ???
Doesnt that give you an idea of how fed up the real British public are feeling about living in this country!! And yes i would have to agree that i think that most of us would be willing to move overseas if we scooped, but as the chances of that is about 13 million to 1 i think that we all have to grin and bear it :( :( :(
All of these goverments will tell you anythink to get in to power, but i really dont think that any of them are any good.
What is really winding me up is the amount of immigrints that we are allowing in to this country at the moment, they are all coming in the one way and we are all going out the other way >:( >:(
Ian
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How can we complain about people moving into this country and yet we are moving abroad into other peoples countries.
I wonder if the forigners feel the same one about us.
As English we still have The Empire in the back of our minds and feel we can do as we please.
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Karl,
We dont move abroad to milk money from the French or Spanish state, we only emigrate when we can afford to do it at our own cost!!
Paul
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If anyone watched Crimewatch last week they would have seen the part where they are looking for sex offenders/ Rapists!!
Out of the 12 they were looking for 10 of them were immigrents >:(
I dont think that you will have the same problem with us Brits abroard!!
Yes there are always bad apples but that was ridiculous
Ian
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Well guys,
The bookies have odds of 1-20 on the labour are re-elected :'(
It looks like another 4 years of a government who dont have a grip on any of the real problems that are increasingly becoming more and more serious :(
I think one of the reasons that Labour are set to continue is the lack of a party that stands out with policies that would make a real difference, so come on Len put your cabinet together for an assult next time around ;D
Paul
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Now there's an idea Paul...we have National Coverage, we are self opinionated, couldn't do any worse ;) ;D
Derek
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Paul
Would love to but haven’t the time as building up the nest egg to clear off to the channel islands sorry to be selfish.
I see the latest Lord Cole and the other Muppets are giving free flights plus more and the right to stay for six months with out permits to Olympic competitors, not sure if this also covers the hangers on, any one would think we are Mexico and they need to acclimatise them selves, but the may need directions to you know what!
Karl
Very broad statement and unsupported by fact!
Len
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I was going to shut up but i am fed up with this utter anti foriegner rubbish.
The Brits do go and work abroad, they sleep in vans 20 to house etc just as Eastern European Workers are doing here.
Both Main Poltical parties are going to impose controls and increase boarder security.
I gather it is Ok for Brits to live and work abroad but no foriegn worker is welcome here.
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Ian,
16000 foriegners coming in every year :o
I bet there is a tiny fraction of this number of brits leaving.
Paul
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Ian, The difference is that we return home :o
You are probably referring to backpackers and students, they do not travel abroad to work and have generations of family in tow.
Retired people who move abroad have finance behind them and pay for the roof over their heads.
A deluded or naive man would compare the human traffic in both directions :-X
http://www.migrationwatchuk.org Something i like to check up on now and again..................just so i know what i am arguing about with the pc brigade ;D
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JUST HAD A LOOK AT THAT SITE VERY INTERESTING.
ONE GOOD THING POPULATION KEEPS GROWNING LIKE IT SAYS
MORE CARPETS TO CLEAN ;D ONLY JOKING
WE SHOULD GET RID OF THEM ALL
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Was about to reply to both len and paul posts, but I think Ian sum it up nicely.
Will add that it seems fine for us to go abroad and take advantage of their cheap living, but not fine for them to move to our country and take advantage of us.
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Can we claim the equivelent of our income support in the majority of foreign countries like immigrants can here ? Have they got to find us homes to live in ?...if so it seems fair to let a proportion in but it does need to be capped as our population is getting bigger very quickly.Greater norwich has a population of 350,000 at present forcast to rise by about 10% over the next 10 years.
We don't have enough housing at the present time so more houses are being built everywhere,on the one hand people whinge about green field area's being built on on the other they want a welcoming society. Whats the alternative answer to a capping system ?
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Karl, You should scroll through posts.
When Brits go abroad and take advantage of cheap living, they do so by paying for it ::)
Unlike the assylum spongers who come here to live off us :o
Deluded or naive ???
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Karl
the empire was phased out over 50 years ago, and rightly so. to most people its a issue that doesnt even blip on their radar, also immigration is running at 160,000 a year not 16,000 as stated in previous posts. We are a small island with limited resources. We the british people moderate by our nature but we have a government that is taking advantage of that fact. I live in a small norfolk town were our population has risen from 20,000 to 30,000 in a few years due to immigration from portugal and eastern europe.
I dont' blame these people for wanting to improve their lives the majority work hard pay taxes and n.i. They have taken up the jobs that locals feel are beneath them or rather not worth their while due to the bloated benefit system. I too will retire to Lanzarote has a self made man so its two traffic. We do need quotas and safeguards on immigration to control undesirables, terrorists entering this great country ( the people not this bloody govt ).
Cheers Mark.
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http://www.spinon.co.uk/content/londoncalling ;D ;D
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Well spotted Dusty I stand corrected its 160000 :o
Paul
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Karl
Think you need to reply as Ian has made a mess of it! As I have not seen anyone say ban immigration, per say, nor can I find any stats on British people causing the same type problem overseas, but will stand corrected
Don’t think any one is asking for a totalitarian state just common sense, sadly none political parties know what this means, they talk the talk and never walk the walk.
Has anyone tried to buy property in the Channel Islands?
Len
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Len
Grits have worked abroad for years. They are attracted because of high earnings or during the 1990s we had high unemplyment.
I am not refering to Back Pakers or people Living in Spain.
If there is a Buck to me made a Brit will be there.
I was really refering to the situation in Germany in the 1990s
In this area we have workers on short work permits, they are required to keep down you food prices. They are only allowed to stay for short periods so they do go home.
We have South African Surgeons in our hospital again on short term contracts.
We have Australian Solicitors. We have Americans running our Chemical Plant They will be going home eventually. The local community makes them very welcome. They are allowed to join the Golf Club Chamber of Trade etc
They are all required to keep our local economy going pay our VAT etc which in reallity means less Tax burden for all of us.
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Ian
Although i have never met you, i feel that you are speaking a complete load of rubbish!! How can you compare the British public to the asilum seekers that are flooding in to our country??? There is no comparison!!! Tell me when was the last time you heard of a brit that crossed the lands of 3 or even 4 different countries by foot to reside in a country soley to claim benifits???
There is only one reason that immigrants come here, and thats because they know a soft touch when they see one!!
We, as brits are leaving the country in droves because of one prime factor, and that is because we are getting sick to death of being sick to death of whats happening in our homeland, so we are so to speak........buggering off >:( >:(
Ian
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Hi
I've had to edit a couple of posts and I was tempted to delete the whole topic when it started because I thought it may get out of hand. However, the election does affect us all and I don't have a problem letting the topic run so long as it can be kept clean and doesn't insult anyone - regardless of their views!
PLEASE CONSIDER YOUR COMMENTS BEFORE POSTING
Thanks
Mike
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Mike , Appreciate the heads up ;)
Karl, you can come back out now ;D
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Mike
Well put mate. Thats the thing about Politcs, and Rellgion. it always gets people wound up >:(
So for my next post............Lets talk about Rellgion ;D
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New Pope is a German you say ;D
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Have not read this post for ages, as got fed up with you tory lovers living in a dream world. Can't you remember how bad it was last time around, I know it was 10 years ago, but christ do you wish to risk it again.
Sorry started again, was about to say, have not read this post for ages, and now it looks like I missed all the fun. Matt_nch was only saying a few days back that he was amazed the posts had not got out of hand and then bingo some one upset someone else. So lets keep it clean, and always remember I'm right (joking).
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Back by public demand... (well Len anyway).
Dusty.
Which Norfolk town do you live in, as I am surprised not to see it on the Tv and in the papers. 1 in 3 people are foreign. as you say, only a few years back 20,000 population , now a 50% increase to 30,000 makes 1 in 3 are foriegners. So as you drive down the high street the place is full of foriegners, I don't think so.
And when I mention the Britsih Empire I was referring to the way we went into people's countries without a care in the world and did as we pleased. Sound familar.
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Free speech.....................
As long as no one directs a derogatory remark at one person then you should be allowed to air your opinion.
I know from experience what can happen when someone takes offence but here we are mostly all in the same boat (no racist pun intended). We work hard and pay our way, why should we not voice our disgust at the people who seek to come here and live off us. We cannot go to any other country and live off them ??? correct me if i am wrong but i doubt it.
I will be out & proud on St Georges day (no gay references) even got my St George headrests on in van. Wonder what people will make of me walking through Battersea on saturday afternoon wearing my St George sunglasses with my shaved head....... who cares :)
ps. Karl, The British Empire was hundreds of years ago and they were 3rd world countries to which we brought modernisation and education.
Part of that legacy has been the migration from the asian continent and the west indies,not the current influx of people from the eastern block and middle east.
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The British Empire was something to be proud of, I agree, but Chris you mention the good we did, not the nasty way we went about some of it. Some things the Empire did we choose not to remember.
Thank god you never mentioned your union jack thong again, I'm still suffering nightmares :-\ :-\ :-\
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Hi Guys,
I loved India when i went to Goa a few years ago .
Tonight I am cooking king prawn curry having been to my local asian food shop .
I am proud to be English but also appreciate the diversity immigration bring.
However i would only give benefits for 6 months then your out.Proper immigration and scroungeing are two seperate issues.
cheers,
Doug
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Doug,
You say that they only get benefits for 6 months then they are out.
1. What entitles them to a benefit system that they have not paid into.
2. Since 1997, 308000 people refused assylum but only 72000 are recorded as gone.
What you say sounds good when the politicians say it or looks good on paper but........................................
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Karl,
You mention the way the British Empire was taken but that was hundreds of years ago and nothing to do with the situation now.
Vikings came here to rape and pillage but we still buy from IKEA ;D
As i said in a past post, some people only agree with the majority pc ideals but that does not make them right.
Deluded or niave ???
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I mentioned the Empire orginally saying, we still seem to have that attitude, to do as we feel free. It was a figure of speech.
I did not mean it to carry on as part of this posting.
And I hate PC, it takes everything too seriously, and the goods form IKEA are cheap and crap.(maybe I should not mention IKEA as you will all now keep mention it)
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Take a look through History and you will see that it is littered with Countries invading other Countries, from Ghengis Khan, Napoleon and more recently Hitler, then there are all the smaller less well known ones.
Everyone one has done it at some point in their existance.
I try to be objective about politics and in my time have voted for most parties when I felt that their policies were right for the Country.
I don't have a lot of time for the person who votes for a party simply because his/her father and grandfather did... that is futile
I believe that New Labour has had its day what with all the continual lies and coverups ...trouble is all politians seem to be from the same mold
Derek
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Immigration/asylum is on all the parties’ lips until they get there on house in order it will stay there! Get rid of the free loaders and the money saved can go too areas that need it! Think Australia, New Zealand and the US have the right idea pick and choose.
Ian G
Still cant see where your coming from or going too, but understand work permits and contracts, been there!
Doug
History lesion Goa was Portuguese and they gave it up last! Have to admit nice place, don’t check out the swage, was a pig farm next to hotel?
Karl
Glad Chris didn’t mention DFS then I would throw a right wombal.
Derek
Not from the same mode to be pc correct think it’s now called cloning. Will agree right for the country
Len alias Ghengis Khan reincarnated see Ian I do follow a religion!
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i am amazed if we the service industry back the conservatives, what is going on. do you really believe that when we get back aches we can go national health and get repaired.book today and you may be seen in 369 months. clean hospitals with the conservitive controlled councils you must be kidding. then again arent they all cr~~ ;D
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The NHS cleaning should never have been privatised!
There were really bad faults and wastage thats for sure but privatisation meant that it was inevitable the lowest tender was going to get the contract.
What should have happened (and I said this at the time when I was asked if I wanted to tender)...was to keep employing their own staff but bring in someone from the cleaning contract side of the Industry to organise it.
Bring back the Matron... the last line of defense on the ward..if it ain't clean then the Matron would fetch 'em back to do it properly.
I was at the Leicester Royal Infirmary only yesterday. Some time wasters employed there and some real diamonds too... it just needs someone with some guts to sort 'em out.
Derek
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How to decide your vote! ;)
http://whoshouldyouvotefor.com
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Well I've just made a comment about off topic posting....not that I'm drifting 'off topic' with regards to this topic ???
Here we have a major discussion about politics, 8 pages long in no time at all :o
Hardly carpet cleaning is it?
If the popularity of this post/poll is anything to go by, wouldn't it be a good idea if there was a section on the forum such as 'Chatter' or 'Any other business' where those from all sides of the forum could exchange views on things such as politics or any other subject?
Just a thought....
Ian
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What's that Ian - General Election? Major Discussion? Any relation to Corporal Punishment or Private Moment?
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The link Dennis has here is excellent, if just to find out where you views lay politicial.
I should vote Green then libs then Labour, Not shock to find tories at a negative vote
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The BNP are not on the link ???
It says I should vote Green but as this in reality is a wasted vote I'll stick with the blues :)
Paul
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Paul
Did you here what the BNP leader had to say on news tonight if elected troops out of Iraq, so they can guard the channel tunnel, take the Swiss approach any one who have done service with the forces can keep there gun at home and blow away any robber/intruder, and I thought I was middle to right, now that one brain dead party.
Len
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Blimey that is a tad extreme :o
Not against defending your home by any means though ::)
Paul
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Paul
They have some valid point but like I said brain dead expressly today into high jacking again should have left it till tomorrow, not the best way to get my vote.
I take it that they did not know Chris has his paint ball gun and I have the wife it would take me to long to get my browning and or Beretta out of the gun safe, next one air rifle squalls the brown ones are decimating my Acers. >:( >:(
Len
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I did the test above and it says I should vote UKIP NO CHANCE a wasted vote in my opinion.
Shaun
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What organization is behind this poll.
I came out Liberal Democrat, that does not suprise me, as before Charliee Kenedey took over Labour and Lib Dems were working on Propotional Representation as they have in Scotland.
I am peronally in Favour of a merger of Labour and Lib Dem parties and 20 Years ago i thought it might happen and the Maggie invaded the Falklands
Ps this Topic has nothing to do with Carpet Cleaning and should not be taking place in The Carpet Cleaning Section.
If Mike could arrange it I believe as there is a team spirit on thjis board, and if we do not take offence opposing points of view.
Someone did try to start a Free for all board but that had swearing etc.
I am also concerned some might use it to post Extreme topics which might show the cleaning industry in a poor light.