Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: bad trippy on March 28, 2009, 10:12:53 am

Title: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: bad trippy on March 28, 2009, 10:12:53 am: Was just wondering why so many of you guys clean the tops with the wfp system but do the bottoms trad?
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: kenaltobelli on March 28, 2009, 10:45:44 am: save water ; peace of mind; just easyer with custys
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: bad trippy on March 28, 2009, 10:54:01 am: when you do the bottoms trad do you use fairy or just pure water?
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: Niall McAllister on March 28, 2009, 10:59:16 am: i don't get why you would spend all the money on a system that should speed up the job, and then not use it to its fullest. if you have all the equipment out anyway why not use it ??? ???
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: matt on March 28, 2009, 10:59:48 am: i allways used to

the same reasons as kenaltobelli

though mainly it was just to break the customers into the WFP idea, after i changed a well established trad round into WFP, WFP was all about safety for me, not earning more money, i did that for over 5 years and it worked well

i have since got a tank for the van ( thus i can carry more water ) i allways used to do all the conservs with WFP aswell, the customer loves the idea of the frames being done, last year i changed to ALL WFP, am i any faster, not much, does the customer mind, some have said they prefere it done trad ( for these i have said, give it a few cleans and if you still want it trad, then i will ) as it really makes no difference to me

ref what do i used, i use PURE WATER with GG3, it works well, and when you decide if your going to do WFP down aswell, just wipe over the frames the clean before
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: matt on March 28, 2009, 11:06:25 am: Quote from: Niall McAllister on March 28, 2009, 10:59:16 am
i don't get why you would spend all the money on a system that should speed up the job, and then not use it to its fullest. if you have all the equipment out anyway why not use it ??? ???

400 - 600 quid isnt all that money ?? ?

for me it was the safety side of it, nothing more, nothing less
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: Niall McAllister on March 28, 2009, 11:11:09 am: Quote from: matt on March 28, 2009, 11:06:25 am

400 - 600 quid isnt all that money ?? ?

for me it was the safety side of it, nothing more, nothing less

wish i was that well off ;D ;D
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: kenaltobelli on March 28, 2009, 11:18:31 am: i have windows no mater how much water you chuck at them they dont clean wfp
so i use the old fairy on them.
god knows why the tops clean up also its easyer than messing about with 6 ft pole trying to get in the corners.
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: WISEOWL on March 28, 2009, 01:16:06 pm: I started WFP in August and was approx 99% WFP.

Then I went to 90%, then to 85%

Now I WFP upstairs front, downstairs front but trad conservatorys and patio doors. I would say I am 70% to 80% WFP and always have the mop and blade ready for when I need it.

WFP is a tool not a magic wand, use what you have to to get the job done right, faster, safer and with more money in your pocket.
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: Sir Squeaky on March 28, 2009, 01:27:55 pm: Quote from: kenaltobelli on March 28, 2009, 10:45:44 am
save water ; peace of mind; just easyer with custys
I do on some, for the same reasons.

Also, if I do them all my battery is flat by 12pm. ;D
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: pingu on March 28, 2009, 02:29:18 pm: Squeek how can you run a battery flat by midday....are you using AA's?
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: dd on March 28, 2009, 02:49:30 pm: Just carry a spare battery!?!
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: foxy on March 28, 2009, 02:52:36 pm: wfp is faster and safer than ladders but does not do as good a job as trad; especially on highly soiled windows + it tends to leave water spots/marks. ground floor windows are better cleaned trad, a decent pole can get the 1st floor windows as well.
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: WCE on March 28, 2009, 03:36:10 pm: Quote from: foxy on March 28, 2009, 02:52:36 pm
wfp is faster and safer than ladders but does not do as good a job as trad; especially on highly soiled windows + it tends to leave water spots/marks. ground floor windows are better cleaned trad, a decent pole can get the 1st floor windows as well.
Rubbish it can do a better job than trad if used right. Most problems are down to operator error.
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: foxy on March 28, 2009, 03:51:08 pm: that's my considered opinion, there are many people don't rate the job that wfp do; there's a lot of marketing hype and vested interests.
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: dave0123 on March 28, 2009, 04:36:46 pm: The only reason i do trad bottoms is because i have a lad workes for me which he pops round doing all bottoms. Unless there leaded then i will wfp them
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: NWH on March 28, 2009, 05:10:21 pm: Quote from: Squeaky Clean. on March 28, 2009, 01:27:55 pm
Quote from: kenaltobelli on March 28, 2009, 10:45:44 am
save water ; peace of mind; just easyer with custys
I do on some, for the same reasons.

Also, if I do them all my battery is flat by 12pm. ;D
Just piggy back another leisure battery to cure that problem it`ll never go flat again,a lot of people think that because they have a split charger there batterys never need charging there wrong.The split charger only puts back a trickle of charge that will allow you to use a 12v pump for ages without problems if you use hot water like i do the batterys need charging every 10 days or so otherwise the voltage will drop down to anything between 9-11volts.
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: NWH on March 28, 2009, 05:12:48 pm: Quote from: foxy on March 28, 2009, 03:51:08 pm
that's my considered opinion, there are many people don't rate the job that wfp do; there's a lot of marketing hype and vested interests.
That opinion is dated now and normally the excuse trad WC`s give when asked why they`ve never changed over,to be honest with you a lot of customers new and old now expect WFP as the normal way to clean windows they all know we live in a nanny state so why not live up to it and use it to our benefit.
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: Oakley Windows on March 28, 2009, 05:17:52 pm: Quote from: pingu on March 28, 2009, 02:29:18 pm
Squeek how can you run a battery flat by midday....are you using AA's?

Some people justify poor business practise with mal-practise, mate . ;D ;D

Squeaky, get a new battery that holds its charge.

Anyway, the topic in hand. I do 98% of my work WFP now and if a new customer asks if its just the tops that I do with the pole I explain my kit cost about 6 grand why would I only want it to fulfill half its potential?
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: NWH on March 28, 2009, 05:21:25 pm: Quote from: Matt @ Oakley Windows on March 28, 2009, 05:17:52 pm
Quote from: pingu on March 28, 2009, 02:29:18 pm
Squeek how can you run a battery flat by midday....are you using AA's?

Some people justify poor business practise with mal-practise, mate . ;D ;D

Squeaky, get a new battery that holds its charge.
A slpit charger still won`t allow to fully hold it`s charge,i`ve run a battery for over a year on a split charger and it will power a pump as it dosen`t zap to many amps but run a heater aswell and it will flatten them.
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: pjulk on March 28, 2009, 11:05:15 pm: When i'm on my own which is not often i WFP the lot.

When the missis is with me which is most of the time I WFP the tops she does traditional downstairs and if im finished before her i will finish off downstairs WFP.
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: BORBRYCE on March 29, 2009, 12:43:22 am: Quote from: foxy on March 28, 2009, 03:51:08 pm
that's my considered opinion, there are many people don't rate the job that wfp do; there's a lot of marketing hype and vested interests.
Have to agree mate, but....this wfp thingy is open to many different factors and situations in order for it to work correctly. It does clean most types of glass to an absouloutly brilliant finnish
but only if conditions are good for it to do it. Strong winds will blow dust and all sorts of s hit on to newly cleaned wfp glass, it will dry spotted, but most cleaners will be gone by that time and will never know or realize its not too clean when its dried, if they get complaints they will go into denial mode......they just dont know where they are going wrong. Hydraphobic glass.....where the pure water beads instead of sheeting will also give lots of problems in the form of water spots when dry, especially if the building is close to heavy traffic and all its spray. Guys who keep their pole and brush on the van roof in winter without protection, think of your windscreen in a wet december day...... in less than 2 minutes after scooshing the windscreen, well you have to do it again or you simply cant see right, some cleaners just dont realise that their brush head is absouloutly filthy when they arrive at a job, then they go and clean the windows with the mingin brush, still it is pure water so itl be ok, ::).look I could go on and on, but my point is it really does come down to experience with wfp. Traditional is safe in the sense that you can see what is not right if anything after cleaning, wfp is wing on a prayer even to the most experienced.....fact. PS I am 85% wfp 15% trad and 21 years in buissness.
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: LWC on March 29, 2009, 09:26:50 am: i havent read through this post but to me doing ups wfp and trad downs is saying to customers "yeh wfp is ok but ill still trad bottoms as its not that good"
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: elite mike on March 29, 2009, 09:54:29 am: Quote from: LWC on March 29, 2009, 09:26:50 am
i havent read through this post but to me doing ups wfp and trad downs is saying to customers "yeh wfp is ok but ill still trad bottoms as its not that good"

i trad most bottoms,unless i cannot reach them or leaded,

its about safety for me , as its not generally unsafe to clean the bottoms

i think that wfp does just as good a job as trad,on most windows,

if done properly 8)
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: matt on March 29, 2009, 10:13:46 am: Quote from: LWC on March 29, 2009, 09:26:50 am
i havent read through this post but to me doing ups wfp and trad downs is saying to customers "yeh wfp is ok but ill still trad bottoms as its not that good"

my customers knew i WFP the tops as it was safer, they accepted that

they could also see the difference in the up and down

with WFP we have so many other influences, last week it was windy, now experience tells me that the wind will blow dust and it will stick to the wet spots on the glass ( sure a very low % would complain, but thats because most really dont care, no really they dont care ), where as if i had trad'ed them windows, the wind would not have mattered, they were clean and thats job done
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: Nathanael Jones on March 29, 2009, 11:57:22 am: Quote from: LWC on March 29, 2009, 09:26:50 am
i havent read through this post but to me doing ups wfp and trad downs is saying to customers "yeh wfp is ok but ill still trad bottoms as its not that good"

I have to agree,.. tradding the bottoms shows that you don't really have confidence in your own system!
I trad the occasional "Problem" window,.. of which there are only 2 on my entire round, and then its saved for insides. WFP is king!!
:)
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: Sir Squeaky on March 29, 2009, 12:02:33 pm: Quote from: Matt @ Oakley Windows on March 28, 2009, 05:17:52 pm
Quote from: pingu on March 28, 2009, 02:29:18 pm
Squeek how can you run a battery flat by midday....are you using AA's?

Some people justify poor business practise with mal-practise, mate . ;D ;D

Squeaky, get a new battery that holds its charge.
Another one?
I've had at least 4 in the last 2 years. >:(
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: Sir Squeaky on March 29, 2009, 12:04:41 pm: Quote from: Nathanael Jones on March 29, 2009, 11:57:22 am
I have to agree,.. tradding the bottoms shows that you don't really have confidence in your own system!
I trad the occasional "Problem" window,.. of which there are only 2 on my entire round, and then its saved for insides. WFP is king!!
:)
I don't agree.
I know it will do just as good a job, and the customer may do too, but they'd rather have dry windows EVERY time.
So any that fuss about it get done by hand.
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: Oakley Windows on March 29, 2009, 12:15:08 pm: Quote from: Squeaky Clean. on March 29, 2009, 12:02:33 pm
Quote from: Matt @ Oakley Windows on March 28, 2009, 05:17:52 pm
Quote from: pingu on March 28, 2009, 02:29:18 pm
Squeek how can you run a battery flat by midday....are you using AA's?

Some people justify poor business practise with mal-practise, mate . ;D ;D

Squeaky, get a new battery that holds its charge.
Another one?
I've had at least 4 in the last 2 years. >:(

Perhaps you ought to investigate what you're doing wrong.

Batteries last longer than that if looked after properly.
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: LWC on March 29, 2009, 12:26:25 pm: Rig the battery up in circuit with your main battery squeeks...even just run it off van battery...i do have been for ages, thats 2 systems
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: elite mike on March 29, 2009, 12:29:20 pm: Quote from: Squeaky Clean. on March 29, 2009, 12:04:41 pm
Quote from: Nathanael Jones on March 29, 2009, 11:57:22 am
I have to agree,.. tradding the bottoms shows that you don't really have confidence in your own system!
I trad the occasional "Problem" window,.. of which there are only 2 on my entire round, and then its saved for insides. WFP is king!!
:)
I don't agree.
I know it will do just as good a job, and the customer may do too, but they'd rather have dry windows EVERY time.
So any that fuss about it get done by hand.

and we all know , you cannot beat a good hand job ;)
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: Sir Squeaky on March 29, 2009, 12:30:44 pm: Quote from: elite mike on March 29, 2009, 12:29:20 pm
and we all know , you cannot beat a good hand job ;)
I bet the carpet cleaners have a different answer to that... ;D
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: LWC on March 29, 2009, 12:39:15 pm: Theres a car hand wash place in town and on the van it says "best hand job in town" lol
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: WISEOWL on March 29, 2009, 12:41:02 pm: Quote from: LWC on March 29, 2009, 09:26:50 am
i havent read through this post but to me doing ups wfp and trad downs is saying to customers "yeh wfp is ok but ill still trad bottoms as its not that good"

I think it says:

'Its my business and my time so I will do the tops and bottoms as I see fit in order to maximise my earning potential whilst making sure your windows are left clean with a professional job.'
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: simbo on March 29, 2009, 08:45:21 pm: i do a lot of downstairs trad as wfp is dead boring. Don't get me wrong i think wf great but i like to use my blading skill also and besides windows are too bloody clean for too long so at least i know the ones looked through the most will at least be a bit grubby.
simbo
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: LWC on March 29, 2009, 08:55:37 pm: Quote from: WISEOWL on March 29, 2009, 12:41:02 pm
Quote from: LWC on March 29, 2009, 09:26:50 am
i havent read through this post but to me doing ups wfp and trad downs is saying to customers "yeh wfp is ok but ill still trad bottoms as its not that good"

I think it says:

'Its my business and my time so I will do the tops and bottoms as I see fit in order to maximise my earning potential whilst making sure your windows are left clean with a professional job.'

No...no it doesnt
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: WISEOWL on March 29, 2009, 09:09:24 pm: Like I said, I do the majority WFP but sometimes it is awkward or inconveniant to use a lot of water on say, patio doors that bead terribly.

Quicker to whip the mop and blade over it.

I get the feeling some people are more concerned about the image of their business rather than the practicality of their efforts.

If people do WFP 100% then thats fine, but I can't see how those that don't look or work any less professionally.

:)
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: LWC on March 29, 2009, 09:36:40 pm: Yeh thats fair enough, somtimes i do trad awkward ones, but the otehr guys were on about just ups wfp and trad the rest.
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: matt on March 29, 2009, 10:39:08 pm: what difference does it make ? ? ?

we all clean windows how we want / how the customer wants

once again the CIU crowd making people who dont fit in with what they see to be the right way feel they are doing it wrong

guess what, i used to trad downstairs, whilst wearing a pair of jeans and driving a estate car :o :o so i gave you all a bad name ::) ::)
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: Niall McAllister on March 30, 2009, 12:05:27 am: Quote from: matt on March 29, 2009, 10:39:08 pm
what difference does it make ? ? ?

we all clean windows how we want / how the customer wants

once again the CIU crowd making people who dont fit in with what they see to be the right way feel they are doing it wrong

guess what, i used to trad downstairs, whilst wearing a pair of jeans and driving a estate car :o :o so i gave you all a bad name ::) ::)
>:( >:( >:( hippy >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: bad trippy on March 30, 2009, 12:10:20 am: Quote from: Niall McAllister on March 30, 2009, 12:05:27 am
Quote from: matt on March 29, 2009, 10:39:08 pm
what difference does it make ? ? ?

we all clean windows how we want / how the customer wants

once again the CIU crowd making people who dont fit in with what they see to be the right way feel they are doing it wrong

guess what, i used to trad downstairs, whilst wearing a pair of jeans and driving a estate car :o :o so i gave you all a bad name ::) ::)
>:( >:( >:( hippy >:( >:( >:(
Hell for a split second then i thought you said trippy lol
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: Stephen Dwyer on March 30, 2009, 03:55:53 pm: Yes I often clean the upstairs with a wfp and then do the downstairs windows the traditional way. There are two of us though so one of us does the wfp work while the other works trad on the lower windows. It can sometimes be hard on the person doing the downstairs though due to all the drips from upstairs and the sills get even wetter than usual.
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: seandyer2003 on March 31, 2009, 09:31:46 am: Do yu have to stagger the cleaning then ie the person with pole does back and then when they do front the trad guy starts or what?? Because the trad guy cant go ahead of wfp or else his work is gonna be soaked straight away, and if he follows the wfp it will still be dripping??

Cant think of an easy way round it ??
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: EZclean on March 31, 2009, 10:31:50 am: wfp guy starts 15-20mins earlier, gives time for drips to stop
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: seandyer2003 on March 31, 2009, 08:04:55 pm: Awkward if you have to move areas though init... always waiting 20 mins, could lose hours during the day!!!
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: andyatkinson on March 31, 2009, 08:09:13 pm: what ive found is if you have bay windows, low level roofs, over hanging stone type window sills etc a lot of drips just miss the downs
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: seandyer2003 on March 31, 2009, 08:17:37 pm: Quote from: andyatkinson on March 31, 2009, 08:09:13 pm
what ive found is if you have bay windows, low level roofs, over hanging stone type window sills etc a lot of drips just miss the downs

Yeah i suppose its getting used to your own round , what you have to watch for drops and what is ok ....

Only because im thinking of starting someone with me on downs maybe, so wondered how people did it , and my wife is thinking of doing some too so id just let her trad downstairs a day or 2 a week... hopefully she will change her mind though :)
Title: Re: wfp tops trad bottoms
Post by: andyatkinson on March 31, 2009, 08:22:18 pm: best thing i ever did was work with my mrs, we do get on great though. lost an employee over the summer 4 months before our wedding and my good lady stepped in and i WAS reluctant, one o the best workers ever had, great laugh, lunch in the park etc and NO WAGES TO PAY out on a friday. would do it again tommorow.
ya right though sean its like re learning your round a little, but this game can get so boring any change is welcome!