Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: HIGH LEVEL WINDOW CLEANERS (scrimmy) on March 25, 2009, 08:34:19 pm
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My younger brother had some guys taking his customers today, so rightly he approached them and asked to see their licenses, they didnt have them and promptly phoned the BOSS who came along and an altercation took place, my brother has a license and has every legal right to be there, these guys are unlicensed and in my opinion have no right to be there at all, even after a lecture from doug on the phone ( i gave my bro his number ) the BOSS was unweilding in his position that its unfair to ask all his guys ( around 40 of them ) to have a license each, when my brother clearly stated the facts as described by doug, they started to threaten him with violence, ie will cut your ladders in half while you are up them/ watch your back from now on etc, i was hoping that the council would have been more proactive in my brothers plight, however it seems they couldnt care less, just as helpful as the police were, so why are we paying for these licences?
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report threats of violence to the police straight away, but if there wasn't a licencing system, what would they have been doing wrong before threats came into it.
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before the license came into effect?....nothing whatsover.......which begs the question, why should i pay for these license/s?..its mad to have a LEGAL requirement that is not or wont be ENFORCED. ???
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what would they have been doing wrong before treats came into it.
Treats? These guys giving out candy now? :)
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sorry thats been done to death lately ;)
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its not good is it the oldbill are to busy booking peps , 6 copers for no sit belts it suks dont it ??? ??? ???
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If he calls the police I am sure they wont be to busy call the council and report them to the tax office, and they will soon regret it.
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he did all that, the police said they need evidence of threats and the council said to put a complaint in and they will look into it >:(
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report them to the tax office as benit cheats. If they aint got a licence, some might be, they will then get investigated.
thye will soon move if there pockets aren't being lined.
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to do that you nea d much moor info
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tel him to set his mobile on recording, this way he will have some proof if they do this again
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Graeme,
I have sent in an official complaint and have found out who they are. Glasgow based. They are friends with an ex pal of yours Greg Av.
There were some complications which I predicted but is a pain to you guys but solid evidence for me to take to ACPOS. I've come to that stage of fed up of hearing it's not my job so enough is enough and the seniors will sort it out.
Official complaint sent they should cease with trading in the area.!!!!
Speak to you tomorrow.
This is just the tip of the iceburg and this is happening everywhere so now we have threatened to sue Councils for lost earnings.
Cheers
Doug
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Have to say in defence of the Police when I rang them up they were there pretty quick. Pitty the firm ran off. The Licensing Officer was the other side of Lanark so could not get there in time.
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to do that you nea d much moor info
yep, and therin lies the whole problem with the licence/license in the 1st place, IF it is deemed a LEGAL requirement then why are the LAW enforcers (councils/police) not ENFORCING the license?.........if i drove my car while under the influence, the police or dvla wouldnt be asking for more information would they, or if i attempted to fly a learjet without a pilots licence the civil avaition authority would not be saying we need more info......is it because we are ONLY window cleaners? ???
i wonder 8)
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Graeme,
I have sent in an official complaint and have found out who they are. Glasgow based. They are friends with an ex pal of yours Greg Av.
There were some complications which I predicted but is a pain to you guys but solid evidence for me to take to ACPOS. I've come to that stage of fed up of hearing it's not my job so enough is enough and the seniors will sort it out.
Official complaint sent they should cease with trading in the area.!!!!
Speak to you tomorrow.
This is just the tip of the iceburg and this is happening everywhere so now we have threatened to sue Councils for lost earnings.
Cheers
Doug
Thanks for all the help you gave to kenny today doug, he is a good lad and only trying to make a living and as you know he holds the whole licensing system in very high regard ( after a bit of persuasion from me lol), and he is determined that IF he loses work to a rival it will be to a LICENSED rival ;)
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License, since when did we need a license?
no one told me that n i've been going four years now :o
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License, since when did we need a license?
no one told me that n i've been going four years now :o
you dont mate your in england its a scottish law
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I would have thought, if they don’t have a licence the police can have them for trading without a licence, or certainty force them to get one. They seem real nice, I wonder if they have a criminal background. If they where licensed and threatened you, its game over, if you can prove it.
If I lost a bit of money to someone like this, I would be happy to make a few investments to get the info I needed.
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The police could do a lot of things if they wanted to but "do nothing" is so much easier.
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it needs to be enforced pronto. I know of squads who come from glasgow to my mums area and work.
we don't know them from adam and could be anyone literally.
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Reading all of this makes me laugh...sorry guys but it does!
All you pro-licence merchants have been banging on about how licences will ring-fence and protect your income from unscruplous traders... and give you some much needed kudos. But all I seem to read on this forum is accounts of where it's not only unenforced but the authorities don't give two stuffs!...It's another just another effing tax.
Strangely there are some English w/c's who want licensing!...why not just offer to pay another 10% tax a year?
Are you people effing THICK or what?
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Reading all of this makes me laugh...sorry guys but it does!
All you pro-licence merchants have been banging on about how licences will ring-fence and protect your income from unscruplous traders... and give you some much needed kudos. But all I seem to read on this forum is accounts of where it's not only unenforced but the authorities don't give two stuffs!...It's another just another effing tax.
Strangely there are some English w/c's who want licensing!...why not just offer to pay another 10% tax a year?
Are you people effing THICK or what?
:o :o :o ;D ;D ;D
You been on the scrump jack again simon ;D
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Reading all of this makes me laugh...sorry guys but it does!
All you pro-licence merchants have been banging on about how licences will ring-fence and protect your income from unscruplous traders... and give you some much needed kudos. But all I seem to read on this forum is accounts of where it's not only unenforced but the authorities don't give two stuffs!...It's another just another effing tax.
Strangely there are some English w/c's who want licensing!...why not just offer to pay another 10% tax a year?
Are you people effing THICK or what?
:o :o :o ;D ;D ;D
You been on the scrump jack again simon ;D
Nooo! Just nipped home for a spot of lunch (round of cheese/Branson Small Chunk) and while chewing logged-on and read....and couldn't keep my sincere feelings to myself. Anyway back out now...ciao!
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Simon,
You are right in a way but we have a tool (license) which should help the trade when our work is at risk. This incident is one of many where a firm hires loads of employees , pays min wage sometimes less (have heard £3 per hour), then undercuts other window cleaners.
This is our livelyhoods and for someone to come along and take work off you by undercutting you by 50% using cheap labour is a huge problem. In England you cannot stop this happening.
In Scotland it can be stopped as we have the protection if the authorities enforce it. Should window cleaners sit back , get threatened, run off their rounds by individuals that are just thugs.
This happens all over the UK but in Scotland it should not happen. Yes there is a problem but enough is enough and licensed guys want action which the SLWCN has been pushing for results. We have this system so it has to work.
Hope you understand if your livelyhood is at stake we cannot sit back.
Cheers
Doug
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the license is not something that anyone wants to pay, but it is law most places up here, so if you want to stay legal you have to pay it. can you imagine getting a speeding ticket then saying , hey i know the law says i have to pay but i don't fancy paying this. :)
what gets us is that we do pay, and then find the councils don't enforce it.
we don't wonder about saying, look at me I'm obaying the law, aint i great. ( well not outside the house anyway)
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or £30 for seat belt yester day
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Reading all of this makes me laugh...sorry guys but it does!
All you pro-licence merchants have been banging on about how licences will ring-fence and protect your income from unscruplous traders... and give you some much needed kudos. But all I seem to read on this forum is accounts of where it's not only unenforced but the authorities don't give two stuffs!...It's another just another effing tax.
Strangely there are some English w/c's who want licensing!...why not just offer to pay another 10% tax a year?
Are you people effing THICK or what?
when we did that pole over 60% wanted it, so I wouldn't say some and as others have said do nothing, and nothing will change, even if a licence makes even a slight diference then its a change for the better in my opinion. Thats not thick.
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I know a guy whose son was dealt drugs and became addicted, now that guy went to the police and told them who sold him the drugs, and all they said was we need evidence.
That guy rented a flat across from the drug dealer and basically took photos of him dealing out of his front door (totty) and he then went to the police with the photos and said, right here is the evidence, do something now!
He helped his son kick his habit and spend years helping others do the same.
Sometimes, you just have to stand up for yourself and your family.
To me he is an inspiration.
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Hi Doug and Ladder Garder,
Maybe the word "thick" was a bit strong and I apologise.
However; whilst I think that licences are a great idea if it will keep the non-declarers and dole cheats out of our industry I seriously feel that we genuine window cleaners pay enough tax as it is and don't need to be burdened with yet another. So yes, licences for all of the UK but:
1. They're free to window cleaners who are registered as tax payers.
2. They are properly enforced in much the same way as car tax evasion is enforced.
When these two caveats are met I'll be sooo pro licensing it'll be untrue!
Cheers
S
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Simon I agree with your post, but I don’t think anything will completely eradicate dole monkeys or thugs, just look at the resource and money the police have and they don’t eliminate crime, but do make a great difference.
If they could do it free great, but even if it was just the cost of a crb, no more than £25/30 and an admin fee, I would be happy with that, but the councils do make a bit if cash for these licences especially in some asking ridiculous amounts of money which I don’t agree with.
And also more enforcement is needed.
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Simon,
No probs, we all face the same problems in this industry and it does need sorting out but will take time as we ( SLWCN ) have to follow proceedures etc.. before we complain to the top heads.
The key to this is public education. I for one do not think the Councils have the knowledge to tackle this hence the SLWCN will now take the lead. But I must emphasize this will be for the benefit of SLWCN members , that's what they are paying members fees for.
Cheers
Doug
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doug can you give anymore info on the point of taking the lead and what resources exactly are available, i am interested.
Also it this new for the membership fee? or has it always been like that?
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Sure, but in the mean time you're paying £100, £120, £130 ? per region per annum for...well... not a lot really!
All the regional councils are doing is raking in this money for doing precisely nowt... other than issue a certificate.
I operate across 5 london post codes: sw15, sw13, sw14, tw9 and very occasionally sw2. Assuming £120ish per region that's £600 pa...and sure as eggs is eggs this will rise annually.
I seriously don't think I lose £600 a year to the dole-monkeys!
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Further:
In fact licensing will actually help the benefit merchants: We as licence-paying registered-window-cleaners paying £600ish a year will have to reflect this additional cost in our pricing, whereas Mr "Licence-what-effing-licence?" won't...thus he'll be that much cheaper!
Sorry to rant on...even I'm getting bored with my posts now. ::)
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doug can you give anymore info on the point of taking the lead and what resources exactly are available, i am interested.
Also it this new for the membership fee? or has it always been like that?
SLWCN membership is £35 per year. From those funds we will run advertising campaigns in local newspapers and this will be done on a yearly basis.
It is to draw peoples attention only to use licensed window cleaners and to direct them to the SLWCN site where they can view ALL window cleaners licensed by Councils. This will include trading name etc.. so you can clearly view if Mitie etc.. is licensed or not.
Stirling Council are the first to implement this and am working with other Councils. We are also working with HSE to provide free training courses on ladder use as well as this the SLWCN will promote the benefits of WFP to the public.
There are loads of over things going on but I must stress it will take time to see the benefits in place and who knows the licensing function could be sub-contracted to the SLWCN and run more effectively.
Put it this way if run correctly then £200 on licence fees will be a snip in the ocean.
Doug
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well it works great for me, i have had loads of work from the SLWCN find a window cleaner, customers are taking the license seriously, it is mostly the criminal check that custys look out for now, take a look at robinson solutions blog, you see it all the time, bogus w/c robs house, man pretends to be w/c robs oap and on and on, doug £200 that is a snip, i cant wait to join
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Can't we just set up a special Scottish forum. You seem to have a lot of problems up there
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Can't we just set up a special Scottish forum. You seem to have a lot of problems up there
Can't we just put this to bed Doug and realise that a parochial law licensing window cleaners will not work.
If we were painters ,plumbers,electricians,plasterers or just some polish in to polish we would not have to present credentials to cross the threshold.
We work on trust and a good job done as all the above do,the vast majority of my clients come recommended from others but having a piece of paper from the council has never helped or hindered me in any way.
Good luck with your campaign and if it ever becomes compulsory i will hold my hands up to stealing that apple from the tree next door.
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I think that the public generally dont know about window cleaner needing licences and insurance but big companies do, I recently aquired a £100+ contract and the first thing they ask for was if I was licenced and insured, I sent them my qoute with copies of all my docs, risk assesments and references some of my comercial customers, and got the job. ;D
So I do think it helps, and I would say that there is probablly less problems in scotland than england, as far as brew boys go because of the eforts from the likes of doug.
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Can't we just set up a special Scottish forum. You seem to have a lot of problems up there
Can't we just put this to bed Doug and realise that a parochial law licensing window cleaners will not work.
If we were painters ,plumbers,electricians,plasterers or just some polish in to polish we would not have to present credentials to cross the threshold.
We work on trust and a good job done as all the above do,the vast majority of my clients come recommended from others but having a piece of paper from the council has never helped or hindered me in any way.
Good luck with your campaign and if it ever becomes compulsory i will hold my hands up to stealing that apple from the tree next door.
i think your opinion will change if it did indeed become law where you are, once it gets to the stage where only licensed window cleaners get the top commercial jobs etc then i reckon you will be 1st in the queue as you will want to win these contracts, and i reckon once you start paying for YOUR license you will be slightly miffed that unlicensed window cleaners are taking YOUR work.
i know there is another post on here on the subject of licenses for ENGLAND and my take on it is, that if the license does become law there i reckon westminster would be a lot more succesful in bringing in enforcement laws than up here in the scottish parly, in fact i hope it does come into effect in england ( a national license around 200 quid per year is fair) if it did then surely the scottish Parliament would have to start enforcing it up here so as to not appear weaker than their english counterparts.
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Doug
I presume with the membership that non-members with licences will still be listed, once the councils move and pass the info on, or will it just be members of the SLWCN that will be promoted as licenced window cleaners.
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We don't live in a perfect world guys -
About 12.5% of car drivers ( 1 in 8) are either/some of the following:-
Uninsured
Untaxed
Unlicensed (or driving alone on provisional only)
No MOT
Red Diesel
Or a mixture of the above.
I would pay for a license (say £50) that covered me in England and Wales (so I could nick a bit of Tosh's work over the Severn Bridge ;D) just so I could put it on my card and help reassure householders and give me a business edge.
I think I'll knock up a "susstifcut" in Microsoft Word and put "Voluntarily Licensed Window Cleaner for all Bristol Postcodes" on it to show my custies along with my PLI.
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good on you, make your own up.....it will do the trick until the proper legally recognised official government backed lawful license comes in to effect ;D
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Doug
I presume with the membership that non-members with licences will still be listed, once the councils move and pass the info on, or will it just be members of the SLWCN that will be promoted as licenced window cleaners.
Non members will be on without details, members can advertise if they are looking for more work. This is also followed up with listings in the Yellow Pages under SLWCN banner which is more publicity.
We are also trying to be linked with all Council websites and Police websites.
Right enough from me. ;D
Cheers
Doug
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Doug
I presume with the membership that non-members with licences will still be listed, once the councils move and pass the info on, or will it just be members of the SLWCN that will be promoted as licenced window cleaners.
Non members will be on without details, members can advertise if they are looking for more work. This is also followed up with listings in the Yellow Pages under SLWCN banner which is more publicity.
We are also trying to be linked with all Council websites and Police websites.
Right enough from me. ;D
Cheers
Doug
Doug, the corporate box in yellow pages....is that part the SLWCN fee we pay?
only asking because i got a call from them asking if i wanted to be included in the SLWCN corporate ad this year.
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Nope sorry you have to pay for that one, quite a few members have signed up to it which is good.
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no worries, any ideas as to cost doug?
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It varries Glasgow is expensive though around £100, other areas are around £50.
I'm up your neck of the woods if it rains today or tomorrow going to the SCCE :- http://www.newstartscotland.com/exhibition/index.php
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thanks doug, i have just phoned them to get listed......what you hoping to get out of that seminar then 8)
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Contacts ;) ;D
You never know until you try. ;D
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LOL, get me some while you are there will ye ;D
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how much for our area doug for the yellow pages thing, theve phoned me as well and sent a letter but i havent followed up on it ::) also any idea of the cut of date for this area
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You're in the same pages as me Stu, costs £56 for basic, if you wish to add more info costs a bit more. Final booking date is 4th April, it comes out in June.
I've already got mine in there.
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cheers doug sounds a good deal ;)
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i phoned them several times yesterday and they said someone will call me back in sales, still waiting, credit crunch, what credit crunch, they must have too many customers as it is 8)