Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Captain Scarlet on March 21, 2009, 12:40:57 pm
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Well I never thought I would say this, but I think that its possible for you to be using a pole thats too light. Dont get me wrong, I think that the pole should be reasonably light ( like the sl-x ) so as not to strain the body and make long usage able and speed up the operator. But for younger men, do you think that using a very light modular for day to day use ( domestic ) is going too far.
My reasoning is, over the Holiday season when we had all that snow and living in a rural area and due to family problems I missed out on work for a good 2 and a half weeks. I have a bad shoulder injury and for the first time in years the severe pain reoccurred during this period, but when I restarted work, exercising my shoulder, the pain went away.
My point is, a pole with a reasonable amount of weight is great for strengthening your joints and muscles and for keeping you in shape, do we really want our poles to weigh too little? Its just a point and I'd be interested in peoples experienced and comments.
Another aspect is the hose reels, Im not too sure I agree with the use of self winding ones, as I find the cardiac exercise that goes with reeling in the hose very beneficial, don't you? Any time saving that is gained by an auto reel might not actually be worth it in the long run, as the health benefits of reeling in hundreds of times a week far outweigh any extra money earned ! Or you could use that extra money to go to the gym! anyway its just and idea!
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Obviously I realise that as you get a bit older its crucial not to strain the body and get rsi, so at this point you would most definitely want the poles weight and manual labour to be more minimal!
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My reasoning is, over the Holiday season when we had all that snow and living in a rural area and due to family problems I missed out on work for a good 2 and a half weeks. I have a bad shoulder injury and for the first time in years the severe pain reoccurred during this period, but when I restarted work, exercising my shoulder, the pain went away.
that was the exercise though, not the weight of the pole
the lighter the better, less wear and tear on joints
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I want a pole as light as posible so work is as easy as possible
If i want a workout of my muscles and joints i go to the gym and do full and proper exercises
Although i think i might have to slow down on the workouts at three times a week i am starting to feel old ::)
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I found using a 40ft light modular pole in winds of F4 and the odd gust at 5 . I was straining my body more by fighting the wind than cleaning the windows. At one point i was wishing i still had my tucker :P
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I want a pole as light as posible so work is as easy as possible
If i want a workout of my muscles and joints i go to the gym and do full and proper exercises
Although i think i might have to slow down on the workouts at three times a week i am starting to feel old ::)
you must be charging to much for the work you do if you have time and can afford to use gym 3 times aweek ;D ;D ;D
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Luke your pain went away :) if it had not could you have continued work ? The right excercise is the best way out of injury.
If you needed to work in pain or even when fit then lighter is easier. even at 10ft I also think the lighter the brush the better.
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I hang sand bags off my SLX and use a sill brush during the week leading up to Christmas because i know my muscles will wither and shrivel away during my time off.
Hope this helps
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This guy should be OK with his new pole then.
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Tosser ::)
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Work is not excercise.But, a lot of gym users only exercise biceps anyway, so probably pole work is good for that.
Squats are the best excerise and the one the opposite sex most notice the results of most.They like bums and legs, not biceps.
The best thing of all for getting a girlfriend is money. Having your own business is a great start. Good luck
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Luke your pain went away :) if it had not could you have continued work ? The right excercise is the best way out of injury.
If you needed to work in pain or even when fit then lighter is easier. even at 10ft I also think the lighter the brush the better.
working wasn't hurting it at all, it was making it better, the movement of cleaning was relaxing it. I just think this job seems to serve 2 purposes, 1 to earn money and 2nd to keep us fit!
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Work is not excercise
come out on a day with me and try keeping up then ;D
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Point one.I've got an electric reel, it never gets tired and is four times faster than you are.
point two. Because my hot system needs a high flow, and i get through 600l in six hours, this heavy flow does a lot of the work for me and i do not need to rinse.
I agree physically i couldn't keep up.And i don't think myself that much financially superior either as in the main i find your biz comments pretty savvy- especially for a youngster-
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as in the main i find your biz comments pretty savvy- especially for a youngster-
;) thanks. :) I do think as a younger guy I like pushing myself physically, while my dad ( 47 ) paces himself when he cleans. My point was aimed at the younger audience on the forum though, it would just seem like a shame to be using a extremely light modular and auto reel when you have the strength. But I wouldn't recommend anybody goes and uses a heavy pole, what Im saying is, that if you go too light, you take the "labour" out of manual labour.
I love the feeling of coming home, my stomach muscles, arms and shoulders all feeling like they've worked hard for me!!
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Exercise is good, however excessive weight in repetitive movement is not good. Lightness is the key to being able to continue in our profession for a prolonged period of time (15yrs+). Repetitive action with minimum strain to joints will actually help to maintain muscle tone as much as heavier exercise would. The key is not to develop our muscles, but to keep them well toned and working with our joints and ligaments as smoothly as possible. The heavier the weight we work with, the more sudden snatching movements will happen, leading to premature wear and possible injury.
I personally am striving to reduce weight whenever and wherever possible. I have just started trialling a new even lighter design brush. This could knock about 100g off of the weight of a Super-Lite brush. I could not believe the difference when I stuck it on the end of a 35ft carbon pole and went and worked with it for the day. It made the pole feel about half of its previous weight despite only shaving 100g off. To me this has got to be a good thing. I believe that lightness will continue to be of primary importance in our profession. I for one am working hard to keep reducing the weight of the average window cleaner's equipment.
A friend and client has just bought an SL-X as his shoulders and neck are suffering using heavier equipment. He is an absolute 'bull' of a man, incredibly strong and tough. He always thought that he could get away with any weight pole/brush, but his joints and ligaments are still made of the same stuff as the rest of us and he is now suffering because of the job.
riahehttrepuR, you are a strong fit bloke, but I notice that you are currently using the two lightest WFP ranges available on the market. I wonder how you'd be faring if you were still regularly using older, heavier equipment :).
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The best thing of all for getting a girlfriend is money. Having your own business is a great start. Good luck
clive thats a subtle way of teling luke he needs to get out and get a bird ;D ;D
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Youve missed my point a little Alex. I would never work with heavy poles, but if the poles got ridiculously light, then perhaps we wouldn't be getting the health benefits involved with and outside manual job.
Ive used the sl2 for domestics all day, and for me, its so light at shorter lengths it feels ridiculous, id never come home feeling like I pushed myself or had a decent amount of exercise. When Ive used the sl2 for domestics all day I doubt it had much impact on my muscle tone and it barely registered on the cardiac scale. When I get a little older I know Im going to be singing a different tune!!
Surely the exercise aspect is an important one, and for me a big reason why I took up Window Cleaning! The telescopic poles on the market arent light enough yet!! not even your sl-x! But if they got too light, I would feel really lazy at the end of the day ;D This post is light hearted though, of course the poles are going to keep getting lighter, and me, I plan on buying the lightest..... but when I start getting fat, its you Ill blame ha ha hah
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clive thats a subtle way of teling luke he needs to get out and get a bird
perhaps I have ;) ;) ??? ??? :) :) ;D ;D
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clive thats a subtle way of teling luke he needs to get out and get a bird
perhaps I have ;) ;) ??? ??? :) :) ;D ;D
good
as that post you made last year about the sun shining of your SLX and makes pretty patterns, still concearns me ;D ;D ;D
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as that post you made last year about the sun shining of your SLX and makes pretty patterns, still concearns me
what can I say ;D ;D it does, and I love it
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yes, one of my 'digs'. Most young blokes do obsess over biceps and girls, but ask any girl and they don't like them at all.They like skinny guys.
So the joke was about faith and frivolity, which i'm guessing is not allowed. Luke is super bright, but very eanest; i made a joke about his orange van once and he sulked for a whole year.
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Exercise is good, however excessive weight in repetitive movement is not good. Lightness is the key to being able to continue in our profession for a prolonged period of time (15yrs+). Repetitive action with minimum strain to joints will actually help to maintain muscle tone as much as heavier exercise would. The key is not to develop our muscles, but to keep them well toned and working with our joints and ligaments as smoothly as possible. The heavier the weight we work with, the more sudden snatching movements will happen, leading to premature wear and possible injury.
I personally am striving to reduce weight whenever and wherever possible. I have just started trialling a new even lighter design brush. This could knock about 100g off of the weight of a Super-Lite brush. I could not believe the difference when I stuck it on the end of a 35ft carbon pole and went and worked with it for the day. It made the pole feel about half of its previous weight despite only shaving 100g off. To me this has got to be a good thing. I believe that lightness will continue to be of primary importance in our profession. I for one am working hard to keep reducing the weight of the average window cleaner's equipment.
A friend and client has just bought an SL-X as his shoulders and neck are suffering using heavier equipment. He is an absolute 'bull' of a man, incredibly strong and tough. He always thought that he could get away with any weight pole/brush, but his joints and ligaments are still made of the same stuff as the rest of us and he is now suffering because of the job.
riahehttrepuR, you are a strong fit bloke, but I notice that you are currently using the two lightest WFP ranges available on the market. I wonder how you'd be faring if you were still regularly using older, heavier equipment :).
although i am glad alex makes the lightweight equipment as it definately makes our work easier i have to disagree with some of what he says, the bloke he knows who is suffering is probably using an unatural angle when lifting and this is what is causing the damage not the weights, you state excessive weight with repetitive movement is not good but this just isnt true providing we build up strengh first i have posted on here before this web site www.fitness4x4.com look on the about us page and watch the video it will prove my point this bloke is now sixty years old and is still improving year on year if anyone wants to build ligament and muscle strength and avoid injury in the job we do i would recomend going to his online store and buying his hour of power dvd in my opinion it is perfect training for our job, like i said i am glad alex makes the lightweight equipment as it makes things very easy but i am also confident that i could use a 10kg pole allday and not get any neck or shoulder pain.
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yep gotta agree there although you have to account for personal
health and fitness.lets face it some of these duffers on here can
barely stand up never mind work ;D
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I'm no where near as fit as when I was on ladders, and my waste line has increased too.
Pushing a 50 ltr trolley system up the welsh hills is as much exercise as I get these days.
I use either the Harris or sensorflex fishing pole for most of my work.
There are some windows over con roofs that are really awkward to reach, this is where light poles come into their own.
For me it's not just about weight, it's about the control you have over the pole, now a 60FT SL2 has to be easier to control than a 60 ft Tucker. I stand to be corrected here, as up to now I have used neither,
I hope to have my SL2 by the end of this week.
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Exercise is good, however excessive weight in repetitive movement is not good. Lightness is the key to being able to continue in our profession for a prolonged period of time (15yrs+). Repetitive action with minimum strain to joints will actually help to maintain muscle tone as much as heavier exercise would. The key is not to develop our muscles, but to keep them well toned and working with our joints and ligaments as smoothly as possible. The heavier the weight we work with, the more sudden snatching movements will happen, leading to premature wear and possible injury.
I personally am striving to reduce weight whenever and wherever possible. I have just started trialling a new even lighter design brush. This could knock about 100g off of the weight of a Super-Lite brush. I could not believe the difference when I stuck it on the end of a 35ft carbon pole and went and worked with it for the day. It made the pole feel about half of its previous weight despite only shaving 100g off. To me this has got to be a good thing. I believe that lightness will continue to be of primary importance in our profession. I for one am working hard to keep reducing the weight of the average window cleaner's equipment.
A friend and client has just bought an SL-X as his shoulders and neck are suffering using heavier equipment. He is an absolute 'bull' of a man, incredibly strong and tough. He always thought that he could get away with any weight pole/brush, but his joints and ligaments are still made of the same stuff as the rest of us and he is now suffering because of the job.
riahehttrepuR, you are a strong fit bloke, but I notice that you are currently using the two lightest WFP ranges available on the market. I wonder how you'd be faring if you were still regularly using older, heavier equipment :).
although i am glad alex makes the lightweight equipment as it definately makes our work easier i have to disagree with some of what he says, the bloke he knows who is suffering is probably using an unatural angle when lifting and this is what is causing the damage not the weights, you state excessive weight with repetitive movement is not good but this just isnt true providing we build up strengh first i have posted on here before this web site www.fitness4x4.com look on the about us page and watch the video it will prove my point this bloke is now sixty years old and is still improving year on year if anyone wants to build ligament and muscle strength and avoid injury in the job we do i would recomend going to his online store and buying his hour of power dvd in my opinion it is perfect training for our job, like i said i am glad alex makes the lightweight equipment as it makes things very easy but i am also confident that i could use a 10kg pole allday and not get any neck or shoulder pain.
I agree that if you're fit enough, using a pole correctly will not damage you. However the original assertion was that by using a heavier pole you could build up fitness and muscle strength. I personally think that once you are strong, you could use a heavier pole with no damage - I don't think you could use the pole to build up that strength. Poles and the use thereof is not the same as a scientifically designed, anatomically geared piece of gym equipment or a well thought out exercise routine (perhaps there's a marketing possibility here!) :)
On a personal level, 8 years ago I started with very heavy equipment and used it for many years. I am a lot stronger now than before I started WFP. However, am I fitter? Is my body in better condition? No (that's just not my wife telling me either). I was in a much better state of fitness and body condition, I just didn't have the built up muscle strength that I have now. Of course, it could just be that I'm getting older :( ...............
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Exercise is good, however excessive weight in repetitive movement is not good. Lightness is the key to being able to continue in our profession for a prolonged period of time (15yrs+). Repetitive action with minimum strain to joints will actually help to maintain muscle tone as much as heavier exercise would. The key is not to develop our muscles, but to keep them well toned and working with our joints and ligaments as smoothly as possible. The heavier the weight we work with, the more sudden snatching movements will happen, leading to premature wear and possible injury.
I personally am striving to reduce weight whenever and wherever possible. I have just started trialling a new even lighter design brush. This could knock about 100g off of the weight of a Super-Lite brush. I could not believe the difference when I stuck it on the end of a 35ft carbon pole and went and worked with it for the day. It made the pole feel about half of its previous weight despite only shaving 100g off. To me this has got to be a good thing. I believe that lightness will continue to be of primary importance in our profession. I for one am working hard to keep reducing the weight of the average window cleaner's equipment.
A friend and client has just bought an SL-X as his shoulders and neck are suffering using heavier equipment. He is an absolute 'bull' of a man, incredibly strong and tough. He always thought that he could get away with any weight pole/brush, but his joints and ligaments are still made of the same stuff as the rest of us and he is now suffering because of the job.
riahehttrepuR, you are a strong fit bloke, but I notice that you are currently using the two lightest WFP ranges available on the market. I wonder how you'd be faring if you were still regularly using older, heavier equipment :).
although i am glad alex makes the lightweight equipment as it definately makes our work easier i have to disagree with some of what he says, the bloke he knows who is suffering is probably using an unatural angle when lifting and this is what is causing the damage not the weights, you state excessive weight with repetitive movement is not good but this just isnt true providing we build up strengh first i have posted on here before this web site www.fitness4x4.com look on the about us page and watch the video it will prove my point this bloke is now sixty years old and is still improving year on year if anyone wants to build ligament and muscle strength and avoid injury in the job we do i would recomend going to his online store and buying his hour of power dvd in my opinion it is perfect training for our job, like i said i am glad alex makes the lightweight equipment as it makes things very easy but i am also confident that i could use a 10kg pole allday and not get any neck or shoulder pain.
I had to give up work 7 years ago because of a serious illness. I had to be looked after 24/7. Couldn't move, dress, feed, wash or go toilet by myself, had to have everything done for me like a very young or old person. Life doesn't get any lower than losing your independence and dignity.
Through sheer stubborness and determination to regain some degree of my independance, I perservered constantly, in pain and agony, for a very long time, until I was able to take care of myself again, through sensible, appropiate, regular, exercise.
I only wish to be as fit as I need too for work, to allow me to earn a decent living and maintain a happy balanced social/work life. I'm not interested in short term benefits of using heavy, cumbersome wfpoles to build muscles to impress women. I want to look after my health long term and have suppleness and freedom in my joints and ligaments, hence why I choose lightweight poles anyday. "Why make life any harder than it already is".
People in the far East, on average live to a ripe old age because they do regular, gentle exercises everyday and take care of their bodies much better than us UK residents feeding ourselves on junk food which is full of toxins. Eating healthy foods and not smoking, taking drugs or drinking excessively is far better for our bodies than trying to go down the gym once a week to lift weights and undo all the good work afterwards.
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Exercise is good, however excessive weight in repetitive movement is not good. Lightness is the key to being able to continue in our profession for a prolonged period of time (15yrs+). Repetitive action with minimum strain to joints will actually help to maintain muscle tone as much as heavier exercise would. The key is not to develop our muscles, but to keep them well toned and working with our joints and ligaments as smoothly as possible. The heavier the weight we work with, the more sudden snatching movements will happen, leading to premature wear and possible injury.
I personally am striving to reduce weight whenever and wherever possible. I have just started trialling a new even lighter design brush. This could knock about 100g off of the weight of a Super-Lite brush. I could not believe the difference when I stuck it on the end of a 35ft carbon pole and went and worked with it for the day. It made the pole feel about half of its previous weight despite only shaving 100g off. To me this has got to be a good thing. I believe that lightness will continue to be of primary importance in our profession. I for one am working hard to keep reducing the weight of the average window cleaner's equipment.
A friend and client has just bought an SL-X as his shoulders and neck are suffering using heavier equipment. He is an absolute 'bull' of a man, incredibly strong and tough. He always thought that he could get away with any weight pole/brush, but his joints and ligaments are still made of the same stuff as the rest of us and he is now suffering because of the job.
riahehttrepuR, you are a strong fit bloke, but I notice that you are currently using the two lightest WFP ranges available on the market. I wonder how you'd be faring if you were still regularly using older, heavier equipment :).
although i am glad alex makes the lightweight equipment as it definately makes our work easier i have to disagree with some of what he says, the bloke he knows who is suffering is probably using an unatural angle when lifting and this is what is causing the damage not the weights, you state excessive weight with repetitive movement is not good but this just isnt true providing we build up strengh first i have posted on here before this web site www.fitness4x4.com look on the about us page and watch the video it will prove my point this bloke is now sixty years old and is still improving year on year if anyone wants to build ligament and muscle strength and avoid injury in the job we do i would recomend going to his online store and buying his hour of power dvd in my opinion it is perfect training for our job, like i said i am glad alex makes the lightweight equipment as it makes things very easy but i am also confident that i could use a 10kg pole allday and not get any neck or shoulder pain.
I agree that if you're fit enough, using a pole correctly will not damage you. However the original assertion was that by using a heavier pole you could build up fitness and muscle strength. I personally think that once you are strong, you could use a heavier pole with no damage - I don't think you could use the pole to build up that strength. Poles and the use thereof is not the same as a scientifically designed, anatomically geared piece of gym equipment or a well thought out exercise routine (perhaps there's a marketing possibility here!) :)
On a personal level, 8 years ago I started with very heavy equipment and used it for many years. I am a lot stronger now than before I started WFP. However, am I fitter? Is my body in better condition? No (that's just not my wife telling me either). I was in a much better state of fitness and body condition, I just didn't have the built up muscle strength that I have now. Of course, it could just be that I'm getting older :( ...............
hi alex if your interested i will send you a dvd no cost to look at if after viewing [maybe even trying]you feel its worth selling let me know and i will give you the phone number of rajko who produces the dvd to come to some deal with him.
i wouldnt want anything out of any deals that may arise i just feel this training would benefit a lot of wfp users who may be suffering.
let me know if you want the dvd
Trevor
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Hi Luke in the old days we went from wooden to alu ladders but our knees still packed in. Have thought a lot about your post and if I was doing it all again I would go for lightness every time, dont forget you have a lifetime ahead of you to mis treat your body. I do agree with the excercise point as well Trev but I have a mate that has a couple of black belts in various regimes and can still do finger push ups etc but is in severe pain from arthritus after the extremes he has put his body through for 40 years.
Lightness rules :)
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OK, a slightly heavier pole might be a little easier to handle on windy days,.. but seriously,.. heavy = BAD!
Lighter equipment reduces RSI, fatigue, joint problems, and increases speed and profitability. The occasions where a heavier pole would be better are very few and far between. If the SL3 has helium filled sections to further reduce weight, it'll be another great step forward! :)
I did a H&S course once where it was put to us in no uncertain terms that "Work is not exercise". You can do 8 hours of work that moves the muscles in the wrong direction and it won't do you a much good as 8 minutes of correct "Real" exercise.
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Another aspect is the hose reels, Im not too sure I agree with the use of self winding ones, as I find the cardiac exercise that goes with reeling in the hose very beneficial, don't you? Any time saving that is gained by an auto reel might not actually be worth it in the long run, as the health benefits of reeling in hundreds of times a week far outweigh any extra money earned ! Or you could use that extra money to go to the gym! anyway its just and idea!
Some old fart on here tried to laugh me out of town when I suggested about this on here a while ago.
I fully agree with you Luke.
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You could park 100m away and sprint back and forth with your hose and pole if you're that desperate. ::)
Maybe go trad and cycle everywhere.
I can't believe this thread ???
Luke, there is another way of releasing pent up energy - it's a bit messy and tends to be expensive but it's what most of us do. :-\
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Is a sl2 good at cleaning at a big height as i think a heavier pole will have much better scrubbing power, thats why i bought the facelift pole as i dont want it to just tickle the windows,
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Luke, there is another way of releasing pent up energy - it's a bit messy and tends to be expensive but it's what most of us do. :-\
Your not suggesting we go and practise self-abuse are you ;D