Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: alboy on March 20, 2009, 04:55:08 pm
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hi there, people say when working out quotes by there hourly rate, this what i have been doing based on £20 pound an hour! do you think this is realistic? or more or less? thanks again?
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hi there, people say when working out quotes by there hourly rate, this what i have been doing based on £20 pound an hour! do you think this is realistic? or more or less? thanks again?
More.
Mind you, I have quoted lower than that when I know the first clean will be bad on a job I really want. I've quoted low because I know I will claw that back and a lot more as I get to the third clean. A job I still have that worked out around £18 an hour on the first clean pays me a lot more than that now I've got the hard graft out of the way. I won't say how much more because some on here get upset when we talk about numbers.
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£30 - £50
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he asked hourly not daily,no one earns that kind of money, you licensed people would soon have a shock if you didn't have your closed shop agreements with councils.
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i agree, i only average around 6 quid an hour on a good day ::)
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Some can earn £30+/hr because they do a good job fast. You have to charge what the job is worth, not how long it takes. When I started I was about 6 times slower than I am now. If I was charging £20/hr then I'd be getting £120/hr now.
Simon.
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It really does vary. Do the maths is the best answer.
How much do you need to earn, how much are your running costs?
Be realistic and don't undercharge, imagine how long the job will take and away you go...
As you get fast you should earn more, and second time you do a job you'll be quicker than the first, and so on
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im still on £3 per hour like most of us on here. ???
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im still on £3 per hour like most of us on here. ???
not another one bragging about his earnings ;D ;D
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I almost cant believe what im reading here!!!!!!!
How is it possible to only do £3 or £6 an hour?
one of my teams, which consist of 2 men in a reach and wash van average an hourly turnover of £85.00 across a 7 hour day every day.
When I started as a traditional window cleaner on my own I still turned over £20.00 an hour.
something must be wrong somewhere. I think i would have given up.
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Don't charge by the hour!!
Break down windows into a unit cost.
Then it is just a case of walking around a job, counting up the windows, breaking them down into what you consider to be a unit and multiply by whatever you have allowed as your unit cost.
It makes pricing far more accurate and takes out a large element of 'guess-timation' from the equation.
If you are fairly new to the game then you need to know what the average time it takes for an experienced window cleaner to clean your average window.
In basic terms, an average casement window, about 45" tall and about the same in width, with 3 panes of glass, one narrow opening light above a single fixed pane, and a longer opening pane to the one side will take approx 90 seconds to clean, including any detailing thats needed.
And that is to a good standard including the sills wiped down properly.
Oh, the above is for trad window cleaning, but generally, even if WFP, it is best to price up as for trad.
AS Simon said, to begin with you will be miles slower than someone experienced, but these are the people you are pricing against, so you need to be competitive...
AS your skills and speed increase then so do your earnings.
What you charge per window (or unit) is up to you, and is also to a degree governed by your location in the country.
My own unit charge is £1.00, and my rate - per - minute - worked is also £1.00
This does not mean earnings of £60 an hour...not by any stretch of the imagination...there is a world of difference between the rate - per - minute - worked and what you eventually earn per hour.
The rate per minute is the time taken when you are actually at the windows cleaning them, no allowance for talking to customers, setting up or putting away or driving between jobs, or time off because of the weather/holidays/sickness/breakdowns and so on.
I'm WFP so my time per window is more like 30 seconds rather than 90 seconds and an average semi will take me around 10 minutes to actually 'clean'...but there is no way I will average 6 semi's an hour!!!!
Mr average on a good day will ...er...average about 3 0r 4 an hour over a full days work, oh, and for most an average days work will rarely be more than 6 hours before he (or she) is heading off home. That isn't to say many don't work considerably longer hours, we often work much longer ourselves (6am starts and 5pm finishes).
Something else to ALWAYS remember is that your hourly turnover rate (perceived not actual!!) is not your wage! it is your business income/turnover from which you take your wage....
Have a minimum charge and over and above that, price per unit and NOT per hour.
Ian
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Ian I think thats great advice.
I too price the windows in the same way, we count each verticle section.
You must have a minimum price also.
Once you have fine tuned this method of pricing there is no danger of under pricing and i makes for much more consistant earnings
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he asked hourly not daily,no one earns that kind of money, you licensed people would soon have a shock if you didn't have your closed shop agreements with councils.
hardly closed shop. anyone that is serious about their business can apply for a license. and if you are a hard worker then £30 to £50 per cleaning hr is very do able, but you have to take into account the driving that works out at £0 per hr.
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im based on roughly 5/6 pounds per hour
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There is a lot of boasting on here! £85 per hour! I reckon I do well to get £8.50 per hour!
I did once work a 12 hour day and make £100 once this year, mind. ::)
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I almost cant believe what im reading here!!!!!!!
How is it possible to only do £3 or £6 an hour?
Let me think about that, could it be they are taking the mick? £1.50 per hour thats my limit ;D ;D ;D
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dig all you like guys. Im not on here to entertain snotty people. I dont remember saying I made £85.00 an hour at all. Im in business to make money not graft my arse of all day for the minimum wage.
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I Thought we all were on £3 per hour....
;)....
dont you just hate topics like these. ;)
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wouldnt get out of bed for £3 an hour my goal is £4 an hour
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Don't worry if you are on a low hourly rate, earning a lot of money just gives you more problems.
Look at my problems for instance, I lost the keys to my Ferrari, that blocked my drive and I couldn't get any of my other 4 cars out, which I needed to get to the airport to fly to Dubai to put a quote in for that funny shaped hotel with a heli pad on top.
That lost me another couple of zillion ;D ;D ;D
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Some can earn £30+/hr because they do a good job fast. You have to charge what the job is worth, not how long it takes. When I started I was about 6 times slower than I am now. If I was charging £20/hr then I'd be getting £120/hr now.
Good comment.If we bought our houses based on what it cost to build it labour time plus materials,and not what its "worth", there'd be no rich builder's/property developers, and we'd all be living in bigger houses. ;D
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dig all you like guys. Im not on here to entertain snotty people. I dont remember saying I made £85.00 an hour at all. Im in business to make money not graft my arse of all day for the minimum wage.
Errrr... yes you did! Look at the post below.
I almost cant believe what im reading here!!!!!!!
How is it possible to only do £3 or £6 an hour?
one of my teams, which consist of 2 men in a reach and wash van average an hourly turnover of £85.00 across a 7 hour day every day.
When I started as a traditional window cleaner on my own I still turned over £20.00 an hour.
something must be wrong somewhere. I think i would have given up.
I guess you forgot in the intervening hour and a half between those posts ...
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whats wrong with 6 pounds an hour
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i was only joking about the 6 quid an hour, i meant to say 5.95 but i couldnt be bothered typing it in earlier, see what happens when you get lazy scrimman. 8)
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you guys realy should go back to school and lean to read more carefully. let me point out that i said TURN OVER!!!! per hour not make or earn. and I would like to know why that seems to suprise you. so to make it clear each of my 2 man teams TURNS OVER £600.00 a day in around 7 hours = £85.00 an hour get it. Its really nice of you to knock me for working damn hard to build a sucessfull business.
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you guys realy should go back to school and lean to read more carefully. let me point out that i said TURN OVER!!!! per hour not make or earn. and I would like to know why that seems to suprise you. so to make it clear each of my 2 man teams TURNS OVER £600.00 a day in around 7 hours = £85.00 an hour get it. Its really nice of you to knock me for working damn hard to build a sucessfull business.
i got it right away, i turn over 40 quid an hour, but my profit after the taxman, the wife, the kids, the offsales, the holidays etc etc take their cut is only 5.95 per hour :-X.
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HAHA i love these topics
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you guys realy should go back to school and lean to read more carefully. let me point out that i said TURN OVER!!!! per hour not make or earn. and I would like to know why that seems to suprise you. so to make it clear each of my 2 man teams TURNS OVER £600.00 a day in around 7 hours = £85.00 an hour get it. Its really nice of you to knock me for working damn hard to build a sucessfull business.
Sorry lee. Didn't mean to offend. You've obviously done very well for yourself. Well done.
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The original post of this thread was sensible, it was and is about how to price up work, but rep[ly after reply has been in sneering, condescending mode.
This isn't about how much you can or should earn, it's about how you should price.
please keep this a sensible debate.
Ian
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Hourly rates are confusing sometimes. I have a four pound customer :o
Takes five minutes .............. so that's erm, £48.00 an hour actual working time.
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I do a shop in and out that takes about five minutes which is £6 but that no reflection. I think this topic is going to have inaccurate results as water fed pole users will work quicker but have higher expenditure. However trad windies will have lower taking on average than they do.
I am trad and have seen me take £25/30 per hour when my work is all in the same spot but my average might be about £10 - £15 per hour, which is what I need and what I am happy with.
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you guys realy should go back to school and lean to read more carefully. let me point out that i said TURN OVER!!!! per hour not make or earn. and I would like to know why that seems to suprise you. so to make it clear each of my 2 man teams TURNS OVER £600.00 a day in around 7 hours = £85.00 an hour get it. Its really nice of you to knock me for working damn hard to build a sucessfull business.
i got it right away, i turn over 40 quid an hour, but my profit after the taxman, the wife, the kids, the offsales, the holidays etc etc take their cut is only 5.95 per hour :-X.
That's a good point, once you take your costs out your per hour goes dooowwwnn.
WFP is quick but costs more to run, even if you're a skinflint like me. ;D
It's healthy to know what you turnover per hour, but it's a not good idea to boast about it, as it gives a false impression to anyone reading, and bears little relation to the smaller amount of money that comes out the other end sadly. ::)
The truth is it's a good job if you work at it.
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absolutely agree, the figure i gave is only an example of how silly these type of posts are, its nobodys business how much i make per hour except the taxman and maybe the wife ???.......set hourly rates cannot exist in our industry in my opinion, i can make the aforementioned 40 quid in a specific hour of the day if i am having a good stint, then the next hour i may only make 15 quid, its all a numbers game and also a game of averages. 8)
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I think it is a very good and valid post. As a newbie many years back I used the formula many old timers used 50p per window. Then rates have been going for many years and increments of 25p yearly.
That advise I would never give to a newbie now as I now it does not pay my bills. Too many people treat window cleaning as a job but it should run as a business. You have to pay yourself wages , cover sickness, holiday, van, insurance etc...
Which regards paying yourself a wage remember the cost of living etc.. price of mortgages but everyones needs it different. As a business myself I need to try and hit £30 / £50 per hour to be comfortable, not rich. This I am not hitting at present which is a problem as many of you in Scotland the weather is a big problem so now I have to factor this in pricing, x days I would lose a year through weather.
With WFP those prices are achieveable if you have a compact round and large properties.
In my personnel opion the pricing structure in the window cleaning industry has been stagnet many years and there has been little change. But on the other hand there are quite a lot of window cleaners that are now changing and prices are rising so it becomes more comfortable to price correctly if everyone else does. The only problem we have is when newbies price low but after having spoken to them in the area we operate they soon realise why price at £7 per hour wen you can get £30 per hour.
A little tip I give to a lot of guys is when you go give a new quote, have the price you would originally price in your head. Then add a couple of extra quid and stick to your guns. If the householders says no walk away. Quite a few times I have walked away and the householder has called me back and taken the price. Those of you who have loads of work will agree with this when you go and price a job , don't want it, quote a stupid price then get it.
You then end up with half of your work underpriced from when you first started and the other half well priced.
This is my advise as I run my round as a business not a job. I am not boasting on what you can earn but that is what I need to run as a business. Keep your head above water, price well, and you may have a smile on your face and not worrying about bills. Not in Scotland though with the weather but have to say this has been the best week for many months. ;D
Now I'm going to spend my hard earnt money in Edinburgh watching the rugby. ;D
Cheers
Doug
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The only problem we have is when newbies price low but after having spoken to them in the area we operate they soon realise why price at £7 per hour wen you can get £30 per hour.
that could sound like price fixing doug.
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you guys realy should go back to school and lean to read more carefully. let me point out that i said TURN OVER!!!! per hour not make or earn. and I would like to know why that seems to suprise you. so to make it clear each of my 2 man teams TURNS OVER £600.00 a day in around 7 hours = £85.00 an hour get it. Its really nice of you to knock me for working damn hard to build a sucessfull business.
Lee. They're just trying to wind you up mate. Ignore it. Respect to you for what you've achieved.
Seriously, my very best couple of jobs (and they aren't tiny jobs) can hit £90 an hour (one man operator). However, I still have some pockets of work where it varies between £22 and £24. Generally, the latter is much older work where I haven't increased the prices enough down the years. However, I don't mind the occasional day to relax, just work at a gentle plod, and have cups of tea with the old dears. It helps me get centred and gives my body a rest until the next bit of graft.
As you say, a minimum charge is a good idea. Mine has been a tenner but I haven't quoted anything under £12 for a little while. This is for newer work. I do have a bit older work that is charged lower.
I hate discussing earnings on here these days but thought they seemed to be ganging up on you.
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Lee
Not suggesting you are lying/exaggerating in any way but just based on your figures 2x2man teams @ £600 per day each team = £6000 turnover per week (5 day week) without getting into specific costs/overheads involved lets say you pay your guys £500 each per week = £2000 lets add other expenditure of £1000 per week for running costs employers tax & ni contributions maybe even premises as well, i think these are fairly generous in terms of expenditure but no doubt someone will correct me if i am wrong.
This leaves you Lee with £3000 per week income/wage before tax of course total £150,000.00 per year WOW !!
Please tell me your secret what is your make up of clients in term of domestic and commercial do you have minimum charges etc etc
If what you state is correct then great well done and keep it up people like you can only help raise the profile of our industry
Sam
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Am i wrong everyone ?
or is it a fair assessment of what Lee must be earning £150k per year and if so are you shocked or not ?
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Sam i think your maths has been a little off there mate.
It would only be £6000 a week if the week had 10 working days in it!
We work a 4 day week to allow space for a bit of rain and add-on services we provide gutters driveway jet washing and so on. each of my teams (3) which i am the driver for one of, turns over £2500.00 a week. give or take £200.00. does that help
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I read his post there and that’s about £40 per man per hour, WFP sure sound ok to me.
People seem to held up on earnings, what does it matter, you have people here who are just in the business a year or so comparing there earning to someone who has spent years building up compact rounds and well priced work compared to newbie’s who’s work wont be compact and unlikely full either and might not be up to speed, then if you are comparing an experienced windy who is water fed pole to a trad newbie there is going to be huge difference in earnings.
So my advice, don’t get to hung up on it, charge what you think is fare for you and your customer. Then if you want to make yourself a millionaire, go for it, expand take on employees, cover more areas, and so on.... but just do it, don’t worry about everybody else, they don’t mater, the only person your can fairly compare yourself to is yourself.
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spot on, we will never be millionaires nor do want to be (well most of us) if we really were in this business for serious money then we would establish a national company serving the nations big names etc, but as far as i can tell most of us are content doing 3 or 4 days a week and paying the bills with a couple of quid left over for a few wee luxuries ;)
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?
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I feel a bit of a heel now, some good answers given. Lee the reason we earn low is so as not to encourage even start ups
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;D ;D "this time next year Rodney" ;D ;D
Don't worry about what people earn.
work out the min you need.
personal expences + business expences + 25% of pers and bus together for tax.
get a rough fig for year then break it down till you get an hourly rate that you need to achieve.
that's all that matters to you ;)
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spot on, we will never be millionaires
it makes me really angry when I see people posting there opinions as fact, some will never learn.
Daily mail
A millionaire businessman last night claimed his marriage had been wrecked by ... Dumped John, director of a window cleaning business, said: "When I found
I also watched one of these shows that follow people buying and selling homes and seen a guy on there that owns a million pound window cleaning and million pound cleaning company. Don’t be narrow minded, yes most just get by and are only interested in a living, but a minority have the vision to excel. There is no limits to what you can achieve if you try hard enough and long enough.
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spot on, we will never be millionaires
it makes me really angry when I see people posting there opinions as fact, some will never learn.
Daily mail
A millionaire businessman last night claimed his marriage had been wrecked by ... Dumped John, director of a window cleaning business, said: "When I found
I also watched one of these shows that follow people buying and selling homes and seen a guy on there that owns a million pound window cleaning and million pound cleaning company. Don’t be narrow minded, yes most just get by and are only interested in a living, but a minority have the vision to excel. There is no limits to what you can achieve if you try hard enough and long enough.
you forgot to add the real facts to your post, or did it suit your post to edit the facts, lol. here is the original post from me.
"spot on, we will never be millionaires nor do want to be (well most of us)"
you obviously are the exception as you seem pretty determined to me ;D
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spot on, we will never be millionaires
it makes me really angry when I see people posting there opinions as fact, some will never learn.
Daily mail
A millionaire businessman last night claimed his marriage had been wrecked by ... Dumped John, director of a window cleaning business, said: "When I found
I also watched one of these shows that follow people buying and selling homes and seen a guy on there that owns a million pound window cleaning and million pound cleaning company. Don’t be narrow minded, yes most just get by and are only interested in a living, but a minority have the vision to excel. There is no limits to what you can achieve if you try hard enough and long enough.
ditch the ladders and go wfp.... you reach your dream quicker ...lol
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Still Ewan is making out there like its impossible, which is not true and you agreed by saying spot on, however I did miss read that slightly and apologize, i read that as most dont want to be, as suposed to most wont nor want to be, but my original post there is valid.
As I have shown it also can be backed up with examples. I would like to see that arrogance from Ewan by saying "Millionaire LOL" if someone came on and said, I started out as a window cleaner, and am a millionaire now, through my business endeavours.
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spot on, we will never be millionaires
it makes me really angry when I see people posting there opinions as fact, some will never learn.
Daily mail
A millionaire businessman last night claimed his marriage had been wrecked by ... Dumped John, director of a window cleaning business, said: "When I found
I also watched one of these shows that follow people buying and selling homes and seen a guy on there that owns a million pound window cleaning and million pound cleaning company. Don’t be narrow minded, yes most just get by and are only interested in a living, but a minority have the vision to excel. There is no limits to what you can achieve if you try hard enough and long enough.
ditch the ladders and go wfp.... you reach your dream quicker ...lol
from what I understand, although faster, and higher takings, our end profits mights not be that different.
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you should have put, you'll reach and wash your dreams quicker! ;D
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fair enuff ;)
my point is that i reckon that 99% of the guys on here will NEVER be millionaires simply due to the fact they either ( have no desire to be or have not got a credible business plan to make it happen ) there are millionaire window cleaners, fact, but only 2 that know personally, and they have made their cash by doing a mixture of services like other cleaning services, property management and the like. so your point is perfectly valid that it is POSSIBLE for SOME but not ALL ;)
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Well in that case, I fully comprehend what is takes to earn 1 mil, by my calcs, 40 employees each on there own vehicle, each doing around 2k takings a month(4 weekly), will get you 100k a year (add in your own earnings) over ten years as you say. Well I think that might about do it.
And I am not saying you would have to stick to window cleaning either, there are plenty of business that will turn over 100g profit, not easy no, not by any means, but not impossible, and certainly not out of my comprehension Ewan.
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ok,
each employee
70 custies per week, average of £7 per job
£25,480 per year sales
£4,330.30 expenses
£21,149.70 gross
pay them what you like, for the sake of this example say £15,642.90.
leaving £5506.80, take off 1429.88 for emplyers nic comt,
giving you £4076.92 profit per employee.
or £40,000 for every ten employees, so...
160,000 profit from 40 employees, I hope your abacus is keeping up here.
Now if I also earn 25,480 per year sales, thats £185,480 per year, me and 40 employees. After my own expenses and getting hammered on tax, it will leave over 100k, even if they take 100k tax and leave 85k for me, it would still be done in under 15 years.
So now I have again backed up my coments...
I think you need a new calculator
can you do the same.
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ok,
each employee
70 custies per week, average of £7 per job
£25,480 per year sales
£4,330.30 expenses
£21,149.70 gross
pay them what you like, for the sake of this example say £15,642.90.
leaving £5506.80, take off 1429.88 for emplyers nic comt,
giving you £4076.92 profit per employee.
or £40,000 for every ten employees, so...
160,000 profit from 40 employees, I hope your abacus is keeping up here.
Now if I also earn 25,480 per year sales, thats £185,480 per year, me and 40 employees. After my own expenses and getting hammered on tax, it will leave over 100k, even if they take 100k tax and leave 85k for me, it would still be done in under 15 years.
So now I have again backed up my coments...
I think you need a new calculator
can you do the same.
why would you want to earn that much and not spend any of it.
surely the point is to make enough to enjoy your self and not just to earn for earnings sake :-[
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ewan I know your are not having a go, I am just backing up my statement, and neil its just an example to show that it can be done, if you are honest I am sure you could come up with a few reasons yourself. I would rather give my children a life I never had, than waste it on mine, or maybe just for an early retirement, who knows.
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not that old chestnut reason (to give my kids a better start in life/ a better future/give them what i didnt have) ::) (not having a dig BTW)
i want that too, but i aint gonna work myself into an early grave to achieve it and miss out on these more important things (kids/family etc) while i am working my fingers to the bone to get my 1st million.
;)
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I price as per unit, as Ian said in an earlier post. I find it really difficult to estimate how long a job will take even after all these years.
I have counted the units, and estimated in my head how long it would take to do a job, and been miles out with my reckoning.
Take the £1 per window as a case in point, we all know there are windows and windows. A commercial job with easy access, and rows of 4ft square single paned windows in nice plastic frames, you would absolutely fly through these WFP. You come across other windows that have vents in the crossbar below the top opener, these will take so much longer.
Pricing is an art in itself, there are so many variables, even guys with vast experience can still get it wrong sometimes, we are increasingly faced with PVC windows that have started chalking, it's easy to forget to check for this out of enthusiasm, when pricing up what looks like a prime job.
Which ever method you use when pricing, a little bit extra should be added for the unforeseen.
There is nothing as unprofessional as abandoning a job after the first clean because we screwed up on price.
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What ever your reasons for it, is beside the point. You can live on the dole and have all the time in the world for your family, but for me I couldn't live a life without the aspiration to better myself. I accept my failures with my success however small, and am not ignorant to the possibilities. I know what ever I aim for in life will not come easy or without effort, but hard work won’t scare me off, I would rather try and fail than never to have tried at all. I know some people better off than others and they work less hours, so the more you earn the more you work isn't always fitting.
I have given good points to how it is possible to become a millionaire in defence of my pervious post, and I don’t intend to start debating the reasons why you would want to, mainly because I think it would be ridiculous.
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ok, agreed ;)
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good for you ladder/gardener. these earning's are fairly modest and would not make you a millionaire. VAT and other factors intervene.You forgot for instance that you needed twenty vans for your forty blokes etc. You also buy houses car's for personal useetc.
Most get rich by selling a business.
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I price as per unit, as Ian said in an earlier post. I find it really difficult to estimate how long a job will take even after all these years.
I have counted the units, and estimated in my head how long it would take to do a job, and been miles out with my reckoning.
Take the £1 per window as a case in point, we all know there are windows and windows. A commercial job with easy access, and rows of 4ft square single paned windows in nice plastic frames, you would absolutely fly through these WFP. You come across other windows that have vents in the crossbar below the top opener, these will take so much longer.
Pricing is an art in itself, there are so many variables, even guys with vast experience can still get it wrong sometimes, we are increasingly faced with PVC windows that have started chalking, it's easy to forget to check for this out of enthusiasm, when pricing up what looks like a prime job.
Which ever method you use when pricing, a little bit extra should be added for the unforeseen.
There is nothing as unprofessional as abandoning a job after the first clean because we screwed up on price.
Spot on, Dai. I've been doing this for 2.5 years now and still find pricing very difficult. I did a new one this week for £20. It took me 55 minutes >:( Way out. I will study Ian's post again in more detail. I will also add that I lost sight of part of the reason tat I do this job is that I enjoy it. Getting too analytical and clock watching spoils that. I just need to find that happy medium. Easier said than done ;)
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good for you ladder/gardener. these earning's are fairly modest and would not make you a millionaire. VAT and other factors intervene.You forgot for instance that you needed twenty vans for your forty blokes etc. You also buy houses car's for personal useetc.
Most get rich by selling a business.
Look, you obviously haven’t followed this conversation or your would have seen me say 40 employees, each with there own vehicle. Where were we bringing into this the cost of the vehicles, it was just a rough example of how it wouldn't be impossible to make a million from window cleaning.
Another point about your post its ladder GARDER, it’s an anagram of my first name Gerard.
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Well I dont like to blow my own trumpet, but in actual fact my window cleaning firm is a registered charity, I dont get a penny out of it, all donations pay for the equipment, but I do get a warm feeling at the end of a day!
I just love to see peoples faces after they have had their windows cleaned, I target underprivileged areas of my community! But I can imagine, if I was charging, I could easily be on £1-2 per hour.....amazing!
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twenty vans with wfp @ 15k each equals three hundred thousand, plus depot/base costs, plus water production costs.
So you can see that the investment needed would be half a million.
This is called a capitol cost. If you bought a house for this amount the mortgage would use a good deal of your projected earnings. It was this aspect you didn't include.
To really make it you have to get creative.
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i would make a hell of a lot more than that from 40 emloyees prob 30-40k per team of two
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I enjoy window cleaning SO much.. but I can't seem to find any customers. So I've resorted to paying people to allow me to do their windows, I normally pay one pound a window, but I'll pay more to do those wonderfully satisfying Georgian ones.
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I gave an example of having a million over ten or twenty years, if you are serious with your comment how many staff would you need to have a million pound profit and over what period?
This was the post I was responding to, nothing to do with capital just speaking in general, how many staff would you need. Now I said 40 over 10 -15 years to make one million profit and gave those figures to backup my example.
If you disagree and think it would take more employees fair enough, but backup your statement how many do you think then.
Also someone said 15k per employee, that isn't necessary, trad you could do it for under 3k per employee second-hand van etc. Yes that’s going to be 120k but I never said you were just going to go out and have 40 vans with 40 employees from the get go, you would obviously have to have built your business up to that.
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This is what slows growth down, some of the guys on here run two vans but would love four or even six, but assuming they had the work the capital jump is massive, and it is this that adds the years on to any plan to get rich soon.
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I would take a long time and agree with your point, it would cost allot, if you bought the rounds say 8k for a 2k round then 2k second hand van, you might be able to put an employee on the road for 10k. I would take say 2 years to make that 10k again with the aid of the employee, bringing in 4k by my example, then you put on another. then one year with the aid of the two emploees bringing in 8k per year altogether, you now have three, 12 a year, then on the four year you have four bring in 16k, then on the fith year you have five employees bringing 20k.... Now you are taking on an employee every 6 months.
By that time you would need a heavy canvasing team.
I never said my figures were gospel, just that is isn't impossible.
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I gave an example of having a million over ten or twenty years, if you are serious with your comment how many staff would you need to have a million pound profit and over what period?
This was the post I was responding to, nothing to do with capital just speaking in general, how many staff would you need. Now I said 40 over 10 -15 years to make one million profit and gave those figures to backup my example.
If you disagree and think it would take more employees fair enough, but backup your statement how many do you think then.
Also someone said 15k per employee, that isn't necessary, trad you could do it for under 3k per employee second-hand van etc. Yes that’s going to be 120k but I never said you were just going to go out and have 40 vans with 40 employees from the get go, you would obviously have to have built your business up to that.
40 trad cleaners, you will end up getting sued for a million before you make it, too much potential for an accident!!
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Well I dont like to blow my own trumpet, but in actual fact my window cleaning firm is a registered charity, I dont get a penny out of it, all donations pay for the equipment, but I do get a warm feeling at the end of a day!
I just love to see peoples faces after they have had their windows cleaned, I target underprivileged areas of my community! But I can imagine, if I was charging, I could easily be on £1-2 per hour.....amazing!
Is this true ?
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Yes, all his poles have been donated. ;D
Lukes post is about a week too early.
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People have been known to do that sort of thing
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Don't charge by the hour!!
Break down windows into a unit cost.
Then it is just a case of walking around a job, counting up the windows, breaking them down into what you consider to be a unit and multiply by whatever you have allowed as your unit cost.
It makes pricing far more accurate and takes out a large element of 'guess-timation' from the equation.
If you are fairly new to the game then you need to know what the average time it takes for an experienced window cleaner to clean your average window.
In basic terms, an average casement window, about 45" tall and about the same in width, with 3 panes of glass, one narrow opening light above a single fixed pane, and a longer opening pane to the one side will take approx 90 seconds to clean, including any detailing thats needed.
And that is to a good standard including the sills wiped down properly.
Oh, the above is for trad window cleaning, but generally, even if WFP, it is best to price up as for trad.
AS Simon said, to begin with you will be miles slower than someone experienced, but these are the people you are pricing against, so you need to be competitive...
AS your skills and speed increase then so do your earnings.
What you charge per window (or unit) is up to you, and is also to a degree governed by your location in the country.
My own unit charge is £1.00, and my rate - per - minute - worked is also £1.00
This does not mean earnings of £60 an hour...not by any stretch of the imagination...there is a world of difference between the rate - per - minute - worked and what you eventually earn per hour.
The rate per minute is the time taken when you are actually at the windows cleaning them, no allowance for talking to customers, setting up or putting away or driving between jobs, or time off because of the weather/holidays/sickness/breakdowns and so on.
I'm WFP so my time per window is more like 30 seconds rather than 90 seconds and an average semi will take me around 10 minutes to actually 'clean'...but there is no way I will average 6 semi's an hour!!!!
Mr average on a good day will ...er...average about 3 0r 4 an hour over a full days work, oh, and for most an average days work will rarely be more than 6 hours before he (or she) is heading off home. That isn't to say many don't work considerably longer hours, we often work much longer ourselves (6am starts and 5pm finishes).
Something else to ALWAYS remember is that your hourly turnover rate (perceived not actual!!) is not your wage! it is your business income/turnover from which you take your wage....
Have a minimum charge and over and above that, price per unit and NOT per hour.
Ian
I've found this to be very helpful. I have analysed my work closely this week and have learned quite a bit about how well and how badly some of my work is priced. I do quite a lot of sash window work and have now arrived at a figure per pane that will give me the return I need. Similarly, I'll feel more confident pricing modern windows and conservatories. I've realised how much hoppers effect my rate too. Basically they take as much time as the main windows. I'm thinking of basing all my rates on trad now with 25% off for wfp. This way I will get the hourly rate I want (or slightly above to compensate for some old badly priced jobs) and I can give the customer a choice of all trad, wfp up trad down or all wfp without it affecting my hourly rate.
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Don't charge by the hour!!
Break down windows into a unit cost.
Then it is just a case of walking around a job, counting up the windows, breaking them down into what you consider to be a unit and multiply by whatever you have allowed as your unit cost.
It makes pricing far more accurate and takes out a large element of 'guess-timation' from the equation.
If you are fairly new to the game then you need to know what the average time it takes for an experienced window cleaner to clean your average window.
In basic terms, an average casement window, about 45" tall and about the same in width, with 3 panes of glass, one narrow opening light above a single fixed pane, and a longer opening pane to the one side will take approx 90 seconds to clean, including any detailing thats needed.
And that is to a good standard including the sills wiped down properly.
Oh, the above is for trad window cleaning, but generally, even if WFP, it is best to price up as for trad.
AS Simon said, to begin with you will be miles slower than someone experienced, but these are the people you are pricing against, so you need to be competitive...
AS your skills and speed increase then so do your earnings.
What you charge per window (or unit) is up to you, and is also to a degree governed by your location in the country.
My own unit charge is £1.00, and my rate - per - minute - worked is also £1.00
This does not mean earnings of £60 an hour...not by any stretch of the imagination...there is a world of difference between the rate - per - minute - worked and what you eventually earn per hour.
The rate per minute is the time taken when you are actually at the windows cleaning them, no allowance for talking to customers, setting up or putting away or driving between jobs, or time off because of the weather/holidays/sickness/breakdowns and so on.
I'm WFP so my time per window is more like 30 seconds rather than 90 seconds and an average semi will take me around 10 minutes to actually 'clean'...but there is no way I will average 6 semi's an hour!!!!
Mr average on a good day will ...er...average about 3 0r 4 an hour over a full days work, oh, and for most an average days work will rarely be more than 6 hours before he (or she) is heading off home. That isn't to say many don't work considerably longer hours, we often work much longer ourselves (6am starts and 5pm finishes).
Something else to ALWAYS remember is that your hourly turnover rate (perceived not actual!!) is not your wage! it is your business income/turnover from which you take your wage....
Have a minimum charge and over and above that, price per unit and NOT per hour.
Ian
I've found this to be very helpful. I have analysed my work closely this week and have learned quite a bit about how well and how badly some of my work is priced. I do quite a lot of sash window work and have now arrived at a figure per pane that will give me the return I need. Similarly, I'll feel more confident pricing modern windows and conservatories. I've realised how much hoppers effect my rate too. Basically they take as much time as the main windows. I'm thinking of basing all my rates on trad now with 25% off for wfp. This way I will get the hourly rate I want (or slightly above to compensate for some old badly priced jobs) and I can give the customer a choice of all trad, wfp up trad down or all wfp without it affecting my hourly rate.
Even with the price differential (or maybe because of it) I think you would be making a rod for your back and over complicating things.
With many customers, if you appear to be giving them some control over how you work, they will often want more.
The way I work is WFP for all the glass (with exceptions like badly leaking windows/oxidisation or some types of doorway or shops). If they want it any different, they need to get someone else to do it. It can be quite amicable too. I've even given them a number for a trad cleaner if they've been polite about it.