Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Captain Scarlet on March 13, 2009, 11:24:28 am
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Well along with some other things two poles stood out to me as competition to the sl-x. They were the Ionic Glyder and Facelift Fusion, 25-26ft poles and around the same prices as the sl-x.
The Glyder is a full carbon pole thats just over 26ft extended, and to begin with its super stiff ( as stiff as the sl-x ) and a bit heavier than the 25ft sl-x ( hardly noticeable when held imo ) its short when closed ( about the same as the 25ft sl-x ) and it feels brilliant to hold. It looked very tough, and very ready for a bashing. Overall, it was a stand out product to me, a real competitor to the sl-x. The clamps were VERY easy to use but the prototype version on show didn't have the final compound of plastic, so it was slipping a little, something that Reuben ( managing director ) I was chatting too promised would be rectified by next week.
Now onto the Facelift Fusion which is a carbon glassfibre mix 25ft pole. Again very impressive, its light ( I dont think it was as light as the Glyder ) and very sturdy like all Facelift poles. It was longer than a closed 25ft sl-x, reason being, it has an aluminium collar preventing it closing another 3-4 inches, this collar is an option though. Well it was also around as stiff as the Sl-x and Glyder. I believe it was a tad cheaper than the Glyder, but the final prices of these products aren't on their websites.
To top it off, I really liked both poles, especially the Glyder as its full carbon fibre slightly longer ( shorter closed too) and just looked the business , but the Fusion was up there too! When my sl-x needs replacing I think Im going to have a very tough decision on my hands!
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When it comes to replacing your old 25ft SL-X, I think your decision might not be as tough as you think! :D
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Well along with some other things two poles stood out to me as competition to the sl-x. They were the Ionic Glyder and Facelift Fusion, 25-26ft poles and around the same prices as the sl-x.
The Glyder is a full carbon pole thats just over 26ft extended, and to begin with its super stiff ( as stiff as the sl-x ) and a bit heavier than the 25ft sl-x ( hardly noticeable when held imo ) its short when closed ( about the same as the 25ft sl-x ) and it feels brilliant to hold. It looked very tough, and very ready for a bashing. Overall, it was a stand out product to me, a real competitor to the sl-x. The clamps were VERY easy to use but the prototype version on show didn't have the final compound of plastic, so it was slipping a little, something that Reuben ( managing director ) I was chatting too promised would be rectified by next week.
Now onto the Facelift Fusion which is a carbon glassfibre mix 25ft pole. Again very impressive, its light ( I dont think it was as light as the Glyder ) and very sturdy like all Facelift poles. It was longer than a closed 25ft sl-x, reason being, it has an aluminium collar preventing it closing another 3-4 inches, this collar is an option though. Well it was also around as stiff as the Sl-x and Glyder. I believe it was a tad cheaper than the Glyder, but the final prices of these products aren't on their websites.
To top it off, I really liked both poles, especially the Glyder as its full carbon fibre slightly longer ( shorter closed too) and just looked the business , but the Fusion was up there too! When my sl-x needs replacing I think Im going to have a very tough decision on my hands!
forget weights and lengths
do they glitter and sparkle in the sunlight ? ? ? ?
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When it comes to replacing your old 25ft SL-X, I think your decision might not be as tough as you think! :D
You've done it now Luke! Blacklisted from purchasing anything from Gardiners for the next 7 generations! ;D
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haha. next month I will hold the new 30ft sl-x which is also slightly shorter closed, its sounds like an impressive pole too!! I still really like my 25ft sl-x, its been a good tool, very good!
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Well along with some other things two poles stood out to me as competition to the sl-x. They were the Ionic Glyder and Facelift Fusion, 25-26ft poles and around the same prices as the sl-x.
The Glyder is a full carbon pole thats just over 26ft extended, and to begin with its super stiff ( as stiff as the sl-x ) and a bit heavier than the 25ft sl-x ( hardly noticeable when held imo ) its short when closed ( about the same as the 25ft sl-x ) and it feels brilliant to hold. It looked very tough, and very ready for a bashing. Overall, it was a stand out product to me, a real competitor to the sl-x. The clamps were VERY easy to use but the prototype version on show didn't have the final compound of plastic, so it was slipping a little, something that Reuben ( managing director ) I was chatting too promised would be rectified by next week.
Now onto the Facelift Fusion which is a carbon glassfibre mix 25ft pole. Again very impressive, its light ( I dont think it was as light as the Glyder ) and very sturdy like all Facelift poles. It was longer than a closed 25ft sl-x, reason being, it has an aluminium collar preventing it closing another 3-4 inches, this collar is an option though. Well it was also around as stiff as the Sl-x and Glyder. I believe it was a tad cheaper than the Glyder, but the final prices of these products aren't on their websites.
To top it off, I really liked both poles, especially the Glyder as its full carbon fibre slightly longer ( shorter closed too) and just looked the business , but the Fusion was up there too! When my sl-x needs replacing I think Im going to have a very tough decision on my hands!
forget weights and lengths
do they glitter and sparkle in the sunlight ? ? ? ?
well, for a looks award, the glyder would get a 9/10, the sl-x 9/10 and fusion 7/10!!!! haha. I think we should arrange some sort of cleaning show cat walk, where the poles are paraded in front of photographers and fans!!
Being serious though, I believe the look of a pole is very important ( to convey a good image ) something that the sl-x addressed very well!
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When it comes to replacing your old 25ft SL-X, I think your decision might not be as tough as you think! :D
Perhaps not, after holding the 30ft version!! It might be like those crazy early sl-x hazy days all over again!!
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When it comes to replacing your old 25ft SL-X, I think your decision might not be as tough as you think! :D
You've done it now Luke! Blacklisted from purchasing anything from Gardiners for the next 7 generations! ;D
;D
On the contrary, I have read very carefully what Luke has posted and find it of great interest.
It is interesting how one year on, the big boys are now doing carbon fibre 25fts. We've got a whole raft of new poles in the pipeline which will give more choice again.
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Oooooooh just hope Im not couped up in the Ridgeway when they come out!! ;) Got any details Alex?
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Oooooooh just hope Im not couped up in the Ridgeway when they come out!! ;) Got any details Alex?
Drop me an email.
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ionic poles look alright apart from the dodgy slipping clamps but i will stick with gardners as at least you know if anything is wrong the customer service is there with ionics once you have parted with your cash it is hard to get anything put right you can tell when their salesmen or lieing their lips move.
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I would go for the fusion anyday above the slx and glyder. The clamps on the glyder are dated and the pole is way overpriced. The slx is not very strong at all, i spoke to a few guys at the show who had the same probs as me with that one. The fusion is not really cheap for a hybrid pole but it is still light enough, strong and you cannot beat those clamps
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I would go for the fusion anyday above the slx and glyder. The clamps on the glyder are dated and the pole is way overpriced. The slx is not very strong at all, i spoke to a few guys at the show who had the same probs as me with that one. The fusion is not really cheap for a hybrid pole but it is still light enough, strong and you cannot beat those clamps
Not very strong as in?
Never heard anyone say that it is not very strong before.
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ionic poles look alright apart from the dodgy slipping clamps but i will stick with gardners as at least you know if anything is wrong the customer service is there with ionics once you have parted with your cash it is hard to get anything put right you can tell when their salesmen or lieing their lips move.
I don't think I've ever purchased anything from Alex, but three of my local fellow window cleaners have, and they all say good things about Gardiner poles, and from the feedback he receives on this forum, if I was going to buy an expensive pole, I would choose Alex over Ionics purely because of the customer service.
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I don't think I've ever purchased anything from Alex, but three of my local fellow window cleaners have, and they all say good things about Gardiner poles, and from the feedback he receives on this forum, if I was going to buy an expensive pole, I would choose Alex over Ionics purely because of the customer service.
which is all very well, but alex never seems to have any in stock! And the SL-X, glyder and facelift poles are not expensive at all IMO for a pole you'll use all day, every day.
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I don't think I've ever purchased anything from Alex, but three of my local fellow window cleaners have, and they all say good things about Gardiner poles, and from the feedback he receives on this forum, if I was going to buy an expensive pole, I would choose Alex over Ionics purely because of the customer service.
which is all very well, but alex never seems to have any in stock! And the SL-X, glyder and facelift poles are not expensive at all IMO for a pole you'll use all day, every day.
What can I say ???
On one front I am happy because we have made money selling our full production run, on the other hand I am sad because people have to wait. They will be back on-line soon though.
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After seeing all the poles on offer at the show my wad of cash is staying in my pocket until the SL-X is in stock and that's without even seeing the SL-X.
Will I regret it? I'm pretty sure I wont :)
The 30ft (actual) length will make the wait worth it, I'm sure a lot of people have bought poles only to say after a few weeks use they wished they could just do with an extra couple of foot.
More length, Less Weight, More Compact, More Rigid (Well we don't actually know has some sulk if the spec is actually shown) Oh!!! and excellent back up, I think I'll be happy.
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Alex, youve got mail!
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Its good that all the companies have something to offer, its the way that things improve in a capitalistic society!! In an ideal world, everybody would work together to make a product. We dont currently live in an ideal world, but I thought that the Glyder and Fusion were fantastic, with the Glyder really standing out!
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Its good that all the companies have something to offer, its the way that things improve in a capitalistic society!! In an ideal world, everybody would work together to make a product. We dont currently live in an ideal world, but I thought that the Glyder and Fusion were fantastic, with the Glyder really standing out!
Shame it's all about the money isn't it?
Ideally all firms involved should be able to pool knowledge, ideas, experience and resources and then sell one perfect product with an equally split of profits. Getting that to work would be the problem.
I have often thought that the same should be true with window cleaning contracts. Really we should all just do work that is close to us. I always pass window cleaners coming into my town as I am heading towards theirs!
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It all comes down to stickers in the end. ::)
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Youve got mail again Alex :)
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I really dislike those, 'You've got mail' posts.
I always suspect you're talking about me.
Please don't do it, and please don't say what you've been saying about me.
I'd be far too-big-headed if I knew!
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Tosh, youve got mail ;D ;D ;D
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Tosh
You're not male!
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Innovation is interesting, and this is a good thread that captures the moment so to speak, but it should be remembered that they are all playing catch up with alex. In theory because they have larger markets because of exports they should be able use their resources to overhaul him.
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Innovation is interesting, and this is a good thread that captures the moment so to speak, but it should be remembered that they are all playing catch up with alex. In theory because they have larger markets because of exports they should be able use their resources to overall him.
I doubt if Alex would wear overalls!
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How long is the Glyder closed.
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the same as the 25ft sl-x
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the same as the 25ft sl-x
Did you actually measure the closed length of the Glyder?
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How long is the Glyder closed.
i bet they are getting a few million of the goverment as they seem to be bailing out the car makers every day now ;) i hear honda and going to have another shut down aswell
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Five foot sections on the glider so it's less than twenty five extended i would think. They give it a twenty eight foot reach so that must either include your arms or a very long gooseneck. Collapsed it should be reasonable.?
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Five foot sections on the glider so it's less than twenty five extended i would think. They give it a twenty eight foot reach so that must either include your arms or a very long gooseneck. Collapsed it should be reasonable.?
It is 24' 4" extended, I just wonder what is the actual closed length. I'm guessing about 5' 10".
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but i thought that is what you are trying to do Alex , to be a window cleaner yourself so you should be able to come up with the perfect product for us,
like Andrew did with the freedom trolley as trolleys go its perfect, even ionics sell a trolley now, even ionics see the use of a trolley in our market, not just van systems.
Ive shopped with Alex over two years now and i find his service and products very good, never had to return a product,
so really if Alex keeps at the inventions he should come up with some future interesting products,
it takes a lot of time and effort to try and test theses products out and also can cost some real investment to come up with the final products.
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like Andrew did with the freedom trolley as trolleys go its perfect, even ionics sell a trolley now, even ionics see the use of a trolley in our market, not just van systems.
didnt andrew just take the sack truck design, make a folding sack truck with a metal box attached to take the pump and battery
it had been done DIY years earlier, hardly a design classic
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People keep comparing them to sack trolleys, but they bear no resemblance just similarities.
your right
both carry a barrel
both carry a pump
both carry a battery
both have wheels
need i go on ::) ::)
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It is 24' 4" extended
Its 26.312ft extended ( states 8.02m in catalogue ) and advertised as a 28ft reach. I didnt actually measure it, but pretty sure its nearly the same closed the 25ft sl-x
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It is 24' 4" extended
Its 26.312ft extended ( states 8.02m in catalogue ) and advertised as a 28ft reach. I didnt actually measure it, but pretty sure its nearly the same closed the 25ft sl-x
Someone on another forum has quoted the catalogue as 24' 4" extended. I will have to get one measured and see for myself!
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5ft closed is what i would say everyone is looking for IMO that would be ideal,perfect in fact.
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we all need a fresh approach, it's easy to get closeted inside your own ideas, and actually ewan, alex, matt and luke are all good examples of this in their own way.(And you never thought you had anything in common with ewan , matt!)
But alex is the main one, and i look forward to his new outlook on window cleaning once he starts using his new van and new kit.When he starts actually using the stuff in a pro way he will arrive at solutions faster.
A good pole is important, but so is van layout and an electric reel. The more of our job that is automated or made simpler the better.
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we all need a fresh approach, it's easy to get closeted inside your own ideas, and actually ewan, alex, matt and luke are all good examples of this in their own way.(And you never thought you had anything in common with ewan , matt!)
But alex is the main one, and i look forward to his new outlook on window cleaning once he starts using his new van and new kit.When he starts actually using the stuff in a pro way he will arrive at solutions faster.
A good pole is important, but so is van layout and an electric reel. The more of our job that is automated or made simpler the better.
Evening Clive ;)
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It is 24' 4" extended
Its 26.312ft extended ( states 8.02m in catalogue ) and advertised as a 28ft reach. I didnt actually measure it, but pretty sure its nearly the same closed the 25ft sl-x
Someone on another forum has quoted the catalogue as 24' 4" extended. I will have to get one measured and see for myself!
i have the catalogue right here as we speak, says 8.02m!!!!
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catalogue says 8.02m
Thats 26 feet 3 inches.
It says a "reach" of 28ft, i reckon you could probably reach about 4 or 5 feet above the actual length, so if i was them I would have said it "reached" 30 feet at least.
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I think my point was that designed by a committee is often used as a critisism, but team work lets you achieve excellent results very fast.
As an example if a pole was proposed a lot of what was said would be rubbish, but it might be possible to take away and use one idea, or it might spark another related idea. And we all have different strenghts, matt is very practical for example and can do most things, you just have to keep him away from the fact that the end result will cost £600.
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I didn't make it to the show this year so can't comment on the other poles but I do like the SL-X. I found the clamps a bit fiddly at first but soon got used to them - in spite of needing to do regular adjustments on clamps 1 and 2. Unfortunately, I'm now finding that due to the adjustments on clamp 1, the screw is poking out so far that it's fouling the clamp lever. I suppose I could dismantle the clamp and grind a bit off the screw - or for that matter - maybe try cutting a bit more out of the slot in the lever. I've currently reverted to using my 18 ft Ionics glass multipole and just using the SL-X for when I need a longer reach or to clean at more horizontal angles.
I'm wondering if this is a design flaw in the clamps or if I've not done something properly. I do clean the pole regularly though I prefer not to dismantle it. Just wondering if there are any tips on this.
I must stress that I do like this pole and note that the newer version has different clamps.
Not sure I should put this on the forum due to the the owner's rules. There does seem to be a grey area where it's unclear what may be posted.
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I didn't make it to the show this year so can't comment on the other poles but I do like the SL-X. I found the clamps a bit fiddly at first but soon got used to them - in spite of needing to do regular adjustments on clamps 1 and 2. Unfortunately, I'm now finding that due to the adjustments on clamp 1, the screw is poking out so far that it's fouling the clamp lever. I suppose I could dismantle the clamp and grind a bit off the screw - or for that matter - maybe try cutting a bit more out of the slot in the lever. I've currently reverted to using my 18 ft Ionics glass multipole and just using the SL-X for when I need a longer reach or to clean at more horizontal angles.
I'm wondering if this is a design flaw in the clamps or if I've not done something properly. I do clean the pole regularly though I prefer not to dismantle it. Just wondering if there are any tips on this.
I must stress that I do like this pole and note that the newer version has different clamps.
Not sure I should put this on the forum due to the the owner's rules. There does seem to be a grey area where it's unclear what may be posted.
Sounds like your pole needs to be returned to us for a free service. We can sort these clamp issues out for you and replace the bolts etc. Give the Office a ring on Monday afternoon (shut in the morning for Stock-Take) and say that Alex has approved a service. (Moderators - I would have emailed a reply, but there was no email tab)
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Alex, I can remember you saying a long time ago, that with the new bigger warehouse, you might be able to do a comparison between poles, setting them up like that window cleaner magazine did some time ago.
I know you are very busy, but is that something that you are still thinking of doing?
I never understood why the Ionics pole info was removed from your website, surely they would never have any legal ground to ask that? Products are being reviewed by companies, and comparisons made all the time.
If not, why don't you get some webspace, and ask somebody else to take the pictures and to put the pictures up without any affiliation to Gardiner pole systems? Would take care of that matter.
I mean, it's only decent that you don't want to step on anyone's toes, but some companies are a bit too paranoid if you ask me.
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This is still something I would like to do. However time and money have been better spent elsewhere since we have moved in.
I think that the easiest thing to do do now would be to take a video of all the poles lined up and give them a bit of bounce and see how they all respond. Then some still shots of the poles fully extended at an angle. Charts and figures can get confusing.
The poles I would like to currently test are as follows:
Brodex Hydra (Carbon)
Ionics E2 +E3, Glyder
Facelift Carbon, Fusion and F1
IPC Eagle Modular
Unger Ergotec
Super-Lite and SL-X
Xtel Carbon
Aquafactors Aspire and Ascent (Tucker)
Durapole
The sizes I would like to test each pole at are 25ft, 45ft and 60ft.
Looking at the list above it would probably set me back by about £15,000 so realistically it is not going to happen. The trouble is even if I did buy them all, no one (apart from myself) would believe the results.
The only solution would be for an independent body (really independent) to set up a fund that all window cleaners could contribute to, that could then be used to buy the above poles, test them and publish the results.
Our firm would happily loan our products to such a body at no cost, maybe other manufacturers would do the same. This way there would be no need for any contributions.
The real problem would be finding an independent body that all manufacturers would be happy with. Perhaps I could approach Which? and ask them.
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And we all have different strenghts, matt is very practical for example and can do most things, you just have to keep him away from the fact that the end result will cost £600.
600 quid :o :o :o you know how many ice creams that'll buy ;D ;D ;D
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This is still something I would like to do. However time and money have been better spent elsewhere since we have moved in.
I think that the easiest thing to do do now would be to take a video of all the poles lined up and give them a bit of bounce and see how they all respond. Then some still shots of the poles fully extended at an angle. Charts and figures can get confusing.
The poles I would like to currently test are as follows:
Brodex Hydra (Carbon)
Ionics E2 +E3, Glyder
Facelift Carbon, Fusion and F1
IPC Eagle Modular
Unger Ergotec
Super-Lite and SL-X
Xtel Carbon
Aquafactors Aspire and Ascent (Tucker)
Durapole
The sizes I would like to test each pole at are 25ft, 45ft and 60ft.
Looking at the list above it would probably set me back by about £15,000 so realistically it is not going to happen. The trouble is even if I did buy them all, no one (apart from myself) would believe the results.
The only solution would be for an independent body (really independent) to set up a fund that all window cleaners could contribute to, that could then be used to buy the above poles, test them and publish the results.
Our firm would happily loan our products to such a body at no cost, maybe other manufacturers would do the same. This way there would be no need for any contributions.
The real problem would be finding an independent body that all manufacturers would be happy with. Perhaps I could approach Which? and ask them.
the bit i put in bold
couldnt the professional window cleaning mag do it ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Phil Hanson is one of us, if somewhat hamstrung.
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You have just cracked me right up matt......I love it :D
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Whats the best 45 ft telescopic at the moment Alex?
Tristan
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Phil Hanson is one of us, if somewhat hamstrung.
More like one of Ionics. :D ;D
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Whats the best 45 ft telescopic at the moment Alex?
Tristan
Wow what a question!
What do you mean by best? Lightest? Shortest? Cheapest? Longest lasting? For each priority there will probably be a different answer. However, the X-Tel 45ft does very well on all counts but maybe not the best in every area.
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That is why we need the 43ft slx on the market!
Tristan
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That is why we need the 43ft slx on the market!
Tristan
Do you mind if it ends up being 47ft?
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The SLX has definatley hit a nerve, there is a large demand for 2*ft Carbon in the last few months which didn't exsist before - it was never an option before because it was thought no one would pay the cost, amazing how things change.
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That's changed because of the price. The only option was to buy a Facelift before which was priced out of reach of a lot of sole traders like myself. Although it was and is a very good pole few of us would justify the price tag.
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I think they are talking about a suppliers point of view."demand for 20'-28' carbon that wasn't there before'.
To me the breakthrough came when xtel, some say at alex's suggestion, used shorter closed lenghts but more sections. This massive improvement in useability was groundbreaking, even if a little obvious in hindsight. The scaffold pole mentality was over, and this freed people up to say if fibreglass can do this what would carbon be like?
Of course gardiners answered that question by dipping a toe in the water with a modular 40' and higher sl2, and then when this didn't send them bankrupt, they had some of the know how necessary to take a crack at a telescopic (slx), which now seems the industry standard on price and performance that the others have to beat.
From a supplier point of view the domestic wfp has exploded, only time will tell if people stick with £500 day to day poles,or if cheaper fibreglass poles with a shorter life become the norm. As regards a comparitive review this is normally undertaken by an independant trade magazine. There is no such thing as an impartial review, and i wouldn't have thought which would bother as the market is so small , and this also a dangerous strategy because they would likely highlight the best benefit to householders.(i mean home systems).
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catalogue says 8.02m
Thats 26 feet 3 inches.
It says a "reach" of 28ft, i reckon you could probably reach about 4 or 5 feet above the actual length, so if i was them I would have said it "reached" 30 feet at least.
Bear in mind you have the pole at an angle, not 100% vertical, so the reach quoted by Ionics is probably realistic if applied to the true vertical reach.
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Alex could u e-mail me on your info for the 47 ft slx.
I would like to order one as soon as.
Thanks Tristan - tristanmiddle@yahoo.co.uk
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I think they are talking about a suppliers point of view."demand for 20'-28' carbon that wasn't there before'.
To me the breakthrough came when xtel, some say at alex's suggestion, used shorter closed lenghts but more sections. This massive improvement in useability was groundbreaking, even if a little obvious in hindsight. The scaffold pole mentality was over, and this freed people up to say if fibreglass can do this what would carbon be like?
Of course gardiners answered that question by dipping a toe in the water with a modular 40' and higher sl2, and then when this didn't send them bankrupt, they had some of the know how necessary to take a crack at a telescopic (slx), which now seems the industry standard on price and performance that the others have to beat.
From a supplier point of view the domestic wfp has exploded, only time will tell if people stick with £500 day to day poles,or if cheaper fibreglass poles with a shorter life become the norm. As regards a comparitive review this is normally undertaken by an independant trade magazine. There is no such thing as an impartial review, and i wouldn't have thought which would bother as the market is so small , and this also a dangerous strategy because they would likely highlight the best benefit to householders.(i mean home systems).
I can't speak for others but I have varied between cheap poles and more expensive carbon poles depending on my finances at the time. If I needed to replace a pole and money was tight for a while, I would revert back to cheap fibreglass for the sake of cashflow. I would always view fibreglass as a temp solution though.