Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: bob on March 09, 2009, 12:27:08 pm
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Hi All
It will be time soon to Renew our NCCA membership. Just thinking will I or not.
At £200 +vat or there abouts.
What do the rest of you think.
Do we get value for money.
Do many of use get any referrals from them.
Do any of our customers know who the NCCA is unless we tell them.
I am open still as to if I do or not.
Your views would be of intrest.
Bob Jennings
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Hi Bob
I think you already know what I'm going to say ;)
I get a return from referals well in excess of my membership fee, so for me, yes it is cost effective.
I've come across quite a few members who have needed to use the free leagl advice benefit, and they were truly grateful for their membership.
Is there a public awareness of the association? generally speaking I'd have to say no. But the same applies to plumbers, carpenters, drain cleaners, brick layers, plasterers, window cleaners ........................ IMO membership is something that has to be "sold" to the prospect, it helps to instil their confidence in you and could be the deciding factor for them to choose between two equally impressive CCers.
All trades need a voice to be heard at whatever level, and for our industry it's the NCCA. There's no other organisation that can speak solely for us carpet and upholstery cleaners.
By attending the AGM, a member can have their input into the direction of the association.
The reasons for membership go on and on. yes their are negatives which are different for different people. It's not, and never will be, a perfect world. The biggest gripe seems to be that some want the NCCA to be more of a marketing company than a trade association. Perhaps if they were to join and lobbied to have this happen, then they may achieve their goal. The problem then would be that many, like myself, would leave because they want to belong to a trade association and not a marketing organisiation. Different strokes for different folks 8)
Safe and happy cleaning :)
Ken
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I understand what you saying Ken,but you must admit they could help a bit more.
If we are all trying to promote each other why is it that we have to pay to have are website url added to there webpage.
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Just coming to the end of my first year and yes I am going to join again for the simple reason I have had jobs direct from their website and I have got jobs because I promoted NCCA either in person or on telephone quoting.
True, its not perfect (what is) but it wont change unless something chages it.
They did the questionnaire recently and got a response which I believe was going to discussed at the (now postponed) AGM.
Some have suggested that more "policing" is needed because some claim to be members but are not, others are members but employ others who are not but sell their business on the basis it is a memebr of the NCCA - its actually the individual and not the business thats a member (as I understand).
But how do you police a national organisation? Would cost a fotune - so it is up to members to report such ones, I wonder how many do?
Not a difficult decision for me to make - I put my money in again.
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The NCCA outsource the website construction, maintenance etc. etc. to a specialist service provider (as do most companies and organisations). They make a charge for adding the members link, so the association passes on this charge to the member concerned after adding a small amount to cover their own administration etc. Remember that this charge is a one off so you wont have to renew it next year, or the year after, or the year after that........ ;)
Safe and happy cleaning :)
Ken
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This will be my 3rd year as a member In that time I have had about 4 referalls, all good quality customers that use you twice a year, then add the referalls from the customers them selves , I reckon it pays for its self
John
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john
over 3 years at £200 per year, thats equates to the cost of 60,000 leaflets which i'm sure you would of got more than 4 jobs out of which would of led to repeats and referals, a lot of hard work getting them out mind. but no pain no gain as they say.
just a thought,
derek
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Hi Guys
As a bit of an aside but those of you in the NCCA know might be able to answer this.
When 'Which' came out with their washing up liquid is a brilliant spotter piece a couple of weeks ago did the NCCA attempt to point out what ridiculous advice this was in terms of resoiling.
As Which puts itself forward as a consumer organisation, shouldn't a carpet cleaning trade association have an input into this type of report.
Cheers
Doug
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Doug as a member I was a surprised Which made no mention of the NCCA.
Would have thought they had should have contact and influence on any consumer association reports.
mark
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I'm looking at joining but I have been told not to bother by several people ??? I've never been asked by a customer if I'm a member or not, but when I do join I will point this out whilst doing quotes. I believe that when out on a quote and mentioning that you are a NCCA member and what it means, it should give the customer peace of mind.
Right, when's the next course?
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Go to the website for training dates - April sometime.
Unless NCCA spent thousands on high profile advertising the public are not going to know - as you correctly say SELL YOURSELF including the fact you are a member of a national organisation.
It logic.
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I did the course last year with a view to joining and I am still in 2 minds about joining.
My 2 main bug bears are this:
1. There were people on my course with no equipment and no knowledge of the trade - providing they passed the multiple choice exam they would be invited to join.
2. A couple of people there were simply putting powerburst in their rinse tanks and scrubbing away - no pre vac, no pre sparay, no agitation or dwell time and happily told me they got excellent results, they too would be invited to join if they passed the exam.
Now I appreciate that being a member is what you make of it, but it seems that not all members can be considered equal in terms of experience, knowledge, ability etc.
Having said all that perhaps I should mind my own business and stick to concentrating on what I do.
Steve
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a lot of people join thinking its a good way to fill your books, maybe thats right but for me, the money will be spent on effective advertising to try and fill my books.
then once my books are bulging i will join the NCCA to help up my prices, i will also join the FSB and the iicrc once my work is coming in to again up my prices.
not sure you guys will see it as the right way round but thats what the plan is here.
derek
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Carrying on from Steve
If you don't pass they send you out the questions you got wrong and let you have a 2nd bite! why not say "you've done the course without falling asleep so you've passed now cheques made payable to NCCA"
Shaun
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I have never been a member so cant comment on the NCCA, however what i can honestly say is that i have never ever been asked by a customer if i am a member or not.
I agree with Derek spend the money on leaflets instead.
Mark
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Depends on your focus, if you sell the benefits of being a Truck mounter Association member then you will get rewards the same as knowone has heard of them niether.
Shaun
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Imagine being a member of the NCCA and selling yourself to a potential customer as such.
but then Steve goes in and says what he has typed above, you won't look so good then will you :-\
and this is the problem, if any customer said the last carpet cleaner who quoted to clean their suite & carpet was an NCCA member I would just shake my head and tut, then tell them why they should chose me even though I've not parted with my money to be a NCCA member.
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I always thought you were a mamber of the NCCA?
Shaun
PS where are you going on your hols?
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I was but never got a single job from it :'( :'(
Hols on Thursday :D sunny Botswana
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Safari?
Shaun
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Used to be but didn't see much value in it so didn't bother spent the £200 plus vat on some high heeled shoes size 4.
Shaun
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Mine were to fit my Missus so yours must have big feet! I would never infer that you wear them (not with a size 11 foot behind them!)
Shaun
PS I bet they're red aren't they? ;D
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Shaun
There's no way Clinton would wear red on a Gixer. Maybe a Duke or CBR though.
If you don't understand that, Clinton will explain it to you one day 8)
Don't ride faster than your angels can fly :-*
Ken
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I thought you meant geeza! gangsta rap kinda!
Probably don't make size 11 womens shoes. do they Clinton?
Shaun
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Ken ;D
Not on my gixer ;D
Shaun
Reds my fav colour ;D
My mrs has at least every colour shoe going ;D
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My missus has the different colour thing also and the exact same shoes twice over but with slight differences (she says) as they are this years!!!
Shaun
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I've often thought about the matching pair, leather gag to keep here bloody quiet and for nothing else before Derek starts!
Shaun
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The postings on this subject remind me of other trade organisations where people within that trade (but not members) keep on with "What are you going to do for us?"
The trouble is without enough members what do you expect x,y,z organisation to achieve?
My main comparison here is with the window cleaning world. The biggest organisation FWC is dying a slow death whilst new organisations which were what window cleaners apparently wanted, just weren't supported at all and disappeared even quicker.
Is the NCCA sponsored (or affiliated) by some larger organisation which would give it the financial clout to make the changes?
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My Gixxer is red.
Clinton, just say the word and you can loan it for a photo shoot to match with your shoes.
Off topic but is yours a K5 or K6?
I ask as there is a recall due to a potential issue withthe frame.
Just my luck; mine's a K6 :-(
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sorry guys looks like i missed all the fun,
misses is back in hospy, 3 hours waiting for a bed, and then they charged me £3 cos i was more than 20 mins in the car park.
still, mustn't grumble.
derek
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I think it's catch 22 with the NCCA but I think they go about things all wrong, IMO they don't get and keep good quality members that are forward moving and only seem to attract newbies and then they get promoted as members of a quality mark.
Without splitting the NCCA a 2 tier system would be better but only to more experienced members but if non experienced were to join then the attraction would be there and also to get into tier 2 on going training would be needed, all this at ongoing expense but if it was to go that way the members paying would become more elite and then the association would get more prestige.
Chicken and egg situation and it won't move on until it's resolved as we've been having these posts for years and it's still the same experienced non members won't join and NCCA members won't do anything about it.
I'd personally love the NCCA to become more elite and therefore be promoted as that to other trades, I'd love to be a member again and part of that and pay and train for the priviledge perhaps one day.
Shaun
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Is she pregas then? I never did find out or has she been on the Ultrapak?
Shaun
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18 weeks preggars and half a stone lighter ???
poor girl, can't even keep water down some days.
its her fault, i wanted to stick it up her????????????????????????? ;D ;D ;D
queue delete
derek
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Arsk your mother for a penny!
From experience when will she start getting better? and when will she start letting you back into the marritual bed?
Shaun
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with joel she only went into hospital once and all though she threw up all the way to the midwife (yes all over her too) she didn't feel too bad, this time she's been bad since xmas with 3 or 4 days a month where she's been ok. hope it subsides soon as we'ere both losing it a bit. just had to cancel 2 jobs tomorrow and if she's still in hospital thursday i'll have to cancel another 2. not good.
might see if the nursery will have him for the day, can't see why not, there there to make money.
derek
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last month done the NCCA course but b4 I paid up membership , I wanted to use " NCCA " over the phone with my clients new and old to see if it did any thing ?
all but 1 had never herd of it !
I think the NCCA would be an asset to be in if they were a lil better known , I dont want them to get me work cause thats my job but im still trying to work out there uses are for me ,
if I bugger up or get stuck with something with in the job I use my phone and speak to some 1 time served with in the subject at hand
most fowl ups are reversible and avoidable .
so I cant see why the NCCA will help me unless they become more proactive very soon
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Think of joining, will be visiting thier stand at the cleaning show tommorow
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last month done the NCCA course but b4 I paid up membership , I wanted to use " NCCA " over the phone with my clients new and old to see if it did any thing ?
all but 1 had never herd of it !
I think the NCCA would be an asset to be in if they were a lil better known , I dont want them to get me work cause thats my job but im still trying to work out there uses are for me ,
if I bugger up or get stuck with something with in the job I use my phone and speak to some 1 time served with in the subject at hand
most fowl ups are reversible and avoidable .
so I cant see why the NCCA will help me unless they become more proactive very soon
I shudder to think how much it would cost to get national exposure!
What form would it be - half page in dailys for a week, repeated every month or so.
Or perhaps an advert on telly peak viewing time.
and I reckon you ask your same clients and they still wouldnt know about it.
And how much do you think annual subscription would be?
Got to sell it yourself - I find it quiet easy to do that, and I know I have won clients because of it.
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I think it should be promoted to other trades not the general public, good stong adverts in upholsterers Association and dry cleaners and carpet manufacturers etc etc
Shaun
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If NCCA did advertise on TV, I would think that more and more C/C's would feel compelled to hop on board. I bet they'd get a good deal with ITV seeing as they're in the cack at the moment :o
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No way far too expensive, I think the advert in the YP is as good as it gets and also swapping adverts in trade mags would be good then they can build up relationships with trades that do the selling for them.
Shaun
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So how many members does the NCCA have and what does it spend the money it gets from its members on? If it can't afford to do some type of "Big" advertising to get out there and teach the public, what use is it?
Perhaps a short introduction on our leaflets explaining why they should use a NCCA member would help "Them" out as well as yourself.... at a price of course!
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Of course - the only way to change things is to get involved.
Do I see any hands going up?
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I'm slowly putting my hand up Joe, if there's one thing I've learned since starting my business, it's to look before you leap! There's good arguments for both sides to be honest and as Derek has said, would the money not be better spent on marketting? I know you can use NCCA for marketting, but which one's better.... (Cue Derek....)
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The NCCA outsource the website construction, maintenance etc. etc. to a specialist service provider (as do most companies and organisations). They make a charge for adding the members link, so the association passes on this charge to the member concerned after adding a small amount to cover their own administration etc. Remember that this charge is a one off so you wont have to renew it next year, or the year after, or the year after that........ ;)
Safe and happy cleaning :)
Ken
It may be a one off charge but at 75 pounds to have a weblink added ;D
Thought they are only adding website not building one
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sorry watching liverpool thrash that poxy spanish club with that rubbish striker called kacky poo poo in the side.
derek
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don't ask, losing the plot, meant raul.
anyway one word
spanked
derek
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i wish.
misses is in hospy so can't drink. i can be quite a responsible father when i need to be.
derek
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Ah yes forgot mate you caint when you have your kids too :)
Hope things are ok mate il rong you next few days :)
Hope you know them viking larger profits will be down thres thousands of jobs on the line :D
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yeah but maccies burger king and kfc are taking on due to the fact that i can't be assed to cook when the misses aint here. ;D
derek
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clinton
now i'm just fat. yum
back to the thread
i honestly think if the NCCA went mainstream they could treble there membership. i personally think there sitting on a gold mine but are to set in there ways to take a gamble and push forward. (no offence paul)
lets face it, if we were sitting watching corrie and an advert came on....
"if your CC is not NCCA registered then think again" and then all the problems they might have with a cowboy cleaner plus a bit about rug doctors being abismal blah blah blah.
how many of us would join then. i know i would straight away, plus all the referals we'd get with people logging on to the website. not only would i join but i'd pay a lot more to join.
maybe the NCCA could run the idea to there existing members and ask them if there willing to pay more for a big ad campaign,
yeah tv adverts would be a big gamble but a gamble in the right direction, and if they don't take that gamble then they won't be around for much longer. just cos theyve been around for years doesn't mean they can go under all of a sudden, take woolies as an example.
with the right approach and the right PR they could move mountains and triple (if not more) there membership.
just my thoughts but then, what do i know.
derek
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You've hit the nail right on the head Derek, I would join as soon as I phisically could..... And I'd be happy to pay more!
We are all business people on here and most of us have learned that to make the next step up, you have to come out of your comfort zone into the world of the unknown... If they don't, someone else could easily set up a governing body as such, plough loads of money into it and and advertise in the middle of Corrie, then watch carpet cleaners break their necks trying to join.
I'm sure you'd get the backing of the more seasoned Carpet Cleaners to head it up.
If I had the capital I'd do it myself ;D ;D ;D
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can i just point out that i don't watch corrie, i watch manly programmes and eat spuds for my tea, but for advertising purposes corrie would be good.
derek
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My thoughts are it will cost me 2 grand for 2 entries in 2 Thompsons in 2 areas but if I just go into the NCCA ad box's that will probably get me better quality work as its a fairly recognised organisation and it would be cheaper too.
I'm sold already.
Murky
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god i'm bored so heres what i'd do...
1) call a meeting for members.
2) inform all members of price rises and justification with mainstream adds and a promise of more referals.
3) contact all possible members and past members with a promotional discount to join again pointing out whats going to happen.
4) total revamp of the website to make it more cutomer friendly and to make finding a cc in your area easier.
5) find a famous face to promote the new ideas, if alltec can have anthea then why not the NCCA, she's not up to much so she'll be cheap ;D
6) sort out mainstream advertising, the revenue from new members will cover it, trust me we'll join
7) organise spin off pr work from the adds with our famous face so there on daytime chat shows like loose women etc...
8) don't reap the rewards, plough them back in
9) sit back and watch the member tally stack up. also watch the forums for none stop positive feed back.
10) send derek a big fat cheque for being so great. ;D
11) go to maccies for a egg and bacon mcmuffin breakfast with a latte.
well i'm deffo gonna do step 11
derek
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Step 5: That 2@ from Cilit Band or Kim and Aggy would be good....
Step 11: Ohhh yesss!
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WHY is the price going up when members is going up, err dont more sales mean more revenue?!
Also "price increases due to inflation" aint that come to a grinding holt?!
I am a member and yes if you sell it its good selling point BUT membership fee is too high and to much time and money spent doing nothing that helps me.
I mean who cares about discount on polo shirts? or discount opn web design? we all got are own suppliers dont what theirs (or their mates probally)
sorry but the fee going up year on year annoys me. ;D
on a seperate note just found this: http://www.howardpartridge.com/softserveproducts.html
never seen it on here or anywhere before, cant see a price though
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The problem is Derek, most folks would just skip straight to step 11. Precisely why the NCCA is not spearheading the CC industry in the UK at present.
Summed up in one word... Apathy.
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jim
didn't expect anyone to take notice, i was just bored as the wife was in hospital and i was waiting for my arm to stop aching ;D so thought i'd write a piece on what i thought should be done with the NCCA.
isn't apathy what you walk uppy to get the the front doory? ;D
derek
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An evil thought is
The trainers who keep training and providing new pas marks are making a killing as they keep themselves in work!
I once gave a couple of ideas to grow the Association but they were poopooed 1 being a mass exam to those who have been in the trade for over 5 years, no training (unless they wanted it) but to hire a big hall and have may be 30-40 even 50 at a time taking the exam aiming to swell numbers but this would do them out of a job as most wouldn't want training.
I do take it that trainers do get paid?if they don't I am way off.
Shaun
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Ive found that trainers in any well paid industry get paid well them selfs
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Not sure because I don't think anyone has!
Shaun
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So Derek yeah ole pal, I can see how you would master mind a NCCA revolution. I still haven't joined because every time I suggest an idea I get told it's too costly so my point is the same as a lot of non-members, What is my £200 for?
Some time back this same issue came up and I started a thread, from what is been said now by the people on this forum, shows that we need action from the NCCA. Oh I get 20,000+ flyers for £200.
I showed everyone a link to a site that does great for there subscribers, they charge £300 per month but you get the leads. The NCCA needs to copy this model, they would be stronger and profitable, thus, making them more able to represent us at all levels.
Now take a look at this site http://www.promotional-merchandise.org.uk/ believe this model would work a treat for NCCA members.
Now, Lets see a show of hands for all those who would join the NCCA if they got fresh leads every day?
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I think the NCCA need to specu;late to acumalete.
Like derek said if an advert was seen on the adverts betreen Corry the membership would soon grow, but can they risk the cost of such an advert (it would be in the $1000s)
but perhaps they could dabble a little bit by employing a marketing Director to push the NCCA, in the newspapers and TV.
mike (In Deepest Africa :D)
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Mike have you seen Biggins yet?
Years ago the NCCA did go for a more professional approach with a marketing manager but it didn't work out as there was a clash of interests with some directors, the trouble is that with part time non paid positions only part time marketing can be done.
I don't think that national coverage is anywhere near what should be done but a revolution in the allied trades so that the members can get good quality leads from recommendations the TV and Radio and Home and Beauty mags would then be a step nearer.
Shaun
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Show they work but CD have far bigger revenues that's why the NCCA should go for swap deals with Upholsterers and carpet manufacturers etc in their trade mags.
Shaun
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Goldfinch
If you are not a member,why do you have NCCA on you profile?
Goldfinch PCS
0845 644 0676
NCCA IICRC LTT PROmite
www.goldfinchpcs.co.uk
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Whoops!
I wonder if anyone from NCCA reads this forum?
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Hope so Joe because all these things need addressing and realistically put to bed so we can all join as valued members and the feeling that we'd be in good hands. I really want the NCCA to work but there are too many issues at the moment I wouldn't feel comfortable with.
Shaun
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From a non-members point!
Have yet to see under a cushion NCCA ;)
It’s a trade body no more no less ken summed it up (I've come across quite a few members who have needed to use the free leagl advice benefit, and they were truly grateful for their membership.) like the word free I pay extra for this confused dot com. ;D
My working mans club are seeing the light just, (it took a baseball bat but there is still fraction own agenda) hiring the hall, charging for parking for the local rugby club and 4x4 dealer. :)
If you are happy I’m happy for you! ;)
Len
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I heard that to pay for the labels it's £60 000 for the year.
Shaun
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Shaun
I think they need a sharper negotiator, but hay who looks under a cushion. :D
Len
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Hi Guys
There is a difference between advertising and public realtions.
A friend of mine at school went into PR, which is basically about getting free exposure .
For example by writing press releases, getting on magazine tel shows etc.
This in my view is where the NCCA should concentrate , to talk about tel advertising is missing the point , it would be far too expensive.
My other bug gear is that it is not really a trade organisation because by restrictive practice it prevents CC's like me , who trained many years ago from joining by having the ridiculous rule that you have to sit a begginners CC course to get in. With lost work, hotels, course fee etc , this would cost me well in excess of a thousand pounds !!
I would be happy to take the exam, afterall they send it out to those who have failed so that they can pass, so I do not see why they cannot send it to experienced CC's.
A local lad is a member and he has not even got any equipment yet :o
Cheers
Doug
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Whats wrong with him getting training before he starts? Maybee by paying out the money on the training he wants to do it right.
Bob
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Doug
That was my main problem with them and was going to join about 15 years ago ::)
The so called exam was treated as a joke between some up here with the easy answer questions lol
Doug the proof is with your sucsess like myself with our set ups.
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I've never joined although always regarded the concept as good for the industry. In my past and other business lives I've been and still am a member of Trade Associations.
All of these are VERY ACTIVE in representing their members at the highest level and indeed have meetings with relevent government ministers resulting in changes taking place.
I'm out of touch with past memberships, but our current association UKHCA costs about £450 per annum, which might seem a lot, but ....................
They are up to date with every change/new legislation, changes in the law, legal requirements, mandatory training, etc,etc and have the same legal advice available as the FSB,
They have training workshops on a regular basis and have " ready made " packages for members that cover virtually all training needs.
The main difference is.........................
The UKHCA
The MSA
The DIA
and many others are run as a business and as such look after their customers interests by providing what their customer wants/needs and charging accordingly.
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I know what NCCA stands for, and FSB
but all the others were meaningless to me.
So sorry, dont know who you talking about.
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Come on Joe GWIM ;D
(GWIM=Get With It Man)
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Hi All,
Thanks for all the interesting points on your messages.
I see that the NCCA had to cancel the AGM as they could not get a quorum together
Is this a sign that know one is interested in doing any think with in the Association. I was planning on attending and also having a look at the show, but in the end did not do either.
I am not going to rejoin the NCCA I have also cancelled my membership of Woolsafe together over £400.00p a years. Never in all the years as a member have I had a job from Woolsafe or any real help joined Woolsafe to use Enviroshield but Woolsafe don’t approve of any type so protectors.
Again thanks to all
Bob Jennings