Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: reflection on March 03, 2009, 04:01:54 pm
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ressession hits and all of a sudden theres new window cleaners popping up every where they make me so angry i know wot your all gonna say as long as im doing my work right i shouldn need to worry but when they are charging such stuppid prices the customers cant resist and i understand that because every one is trying to save money at the minute anyway they come into the estate canvis charge stupid prices get ten or so of your houses do them for a few months then the customer realises how bad they are and ask to come back on to our list im really starting to lose the head with these cowboys
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There is an awful lot of newbies appearing at the moment that is for sure.
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It's a good thing!
Most will fail and disappear without trace. It's very hard to start up and create enough income to live on, even if they have some money behind them. They see this dwindle and wonder if it's the right thing for them to do.
How many turn up once or twice and never return? I use this when chatting to my new quotes.
I am more worried about people who are just looking to suspend the windows while things are tight
Sorry bud. not much help!
Tony
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I dont hate them , it's a free country an all that, but I think the low price merchants are sad little parasitical creatures, who deflate the market value of the job, and willing poach work by underpricing.
I told a couple of people few who asked me to come back, after the low cost merchant realised he couldnt make the job pay and chucked it in, that I'm not Sinatra and I dont do come backs.
They can sod off and find someone else.
Just dust yourself of an move on, you find great satisfaction in looking at minging bird poo ridden windows at the house next door to the one your cleaning you know the one that you used to do.
As for newbies on here asking daft arsed questions just laugh at it, and help the ones that appear worth helping.
I dont now if the Earnings braggers have caused some of this, as if thay are willing to say how much thay earn on here regularily, {God I am so impressed } then Im sure they will tell anyone, including their milkman , the postie, the lady next door , etc,etc .
Dont worry be happy.
;)
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So where did you start then mate?
Your type p*ss me off, im out there trying to make a go of this after redundancy, have invested in wfp, had some training, do both wfp and trad and quote sensible prices and im not a cowboy thanks and have no intention of jacking in after 2 cleans. I could however head down the route of quoting low to get the work and would have had a lot more custys than i now have but chose not to.
Dont see your problem mate, if your doing a good job then you will retain your custys - adapt and overcome.
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ressession hits and all of a sudden theres new window cleaners popping up every where they make me so angry i know wot your all gonna say as long as im doing my work right i shouldn need to worry but when they are charging such stuppid prices the customers cant resist and i understand that because every one is trying to save money at the minute anyway they come into the estate canvis charge stupid prices get ten or so of your houses do them for a few months then the customer realises how bad they are and ask to come back on to our list im really starting to lose the head with these cowboys
give us a basic idea what you are charging for say a bog standard modern semi and what these undercutters are charging
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So where did you start then mate?
Your type p*ss me off, im out there trying to make a go of this after redundancy, have invested in wfp, had some training, do both wfp and trad and quote sensible prices and im not a cowboy thanks and have no intention of jacking in after 2 cleans. I could however head down the route of quoting low to get the work and would have had a lot more custys than i now have but chose not to.
Dont see your problem mate, if your doing a good job then you will retain your custys - adapt and overcome.
I dont think its aimed at newbies like you more the ones who think "my mums window cleaner charges her £10 if i go and quote on house similar at £6 ill get loads" they also dont ask the people at the door they canvass "do you have a window cleaner" and when told yes we have, theyll then undercut to get job. Im still a newbie but theres certain newbies i wont help on here and there the ones who havent done any homework at all, just come on here and ask questions.
Chris
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I've been going now for 5 months and still find it hard and now i'm w/c full time as a was made redundant 3 weeks ago the added pressure of newbies under cutting. I'm investing in wfp system now so this all needs to pay off and dont want it to flop to under cutters out there
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I've been going now for 5 months and still find it hard and now i'm w/c full time as a was made redundant 3 weeks ago the added pressure of newbies under cutting. I'm investing in wfp system now so this all needs to pay off and dont want it to flop to under cutters out there
Nice one chris, I picked up a £150 nursing home today, happy days.
Chris
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well done.
excited about wfp system, starting to get it all now and going to cleaning show to get stuff too.
gonna be like a child with new toy ;D ;D ;D
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well done.
excited about wfp system, starting to get it all now and going to cleaning show to get stuff too.
gonna be like a child with new toy ;D ;D ;D
Yer you wont regret it, make sure you have a list of what you need as i wasted so much money on bits that i ended up selling on ebay as where rubbish, friend of mine said that you can get some really good bargains at the show.
Have fun.
Chris
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Well I started about 2 months ago, haven't undercharged at all and basically picked up where a w/c has never returned or retired or couldn't do such and such window because of...(insert excuse).
I'm thoroughly enjoying it. I have no intention of giving it up. I provide a good service, on time and thorough (even if I do say so myself...lol). Have picked up 40 customers in two months and hope to get more. Doing it trade and not wfp. Customers are very pleased with results and so far have been getting £2-£4 tips on top of price, so I must be doing something right.
My intention is to build and try to get a good basic round which will give me a relatively substantial income, but I have no intention of going around charging £4,£5 or £6 etc...., as I see that as basically pointless. Quote price, get job, do a good job and customer will remain....................well thats the theory...lol but so far so good.
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well done,
pickup some the other day
had 1 phone wasn'tt happy with her current w/c
while cleaning
had an old dear for conservatory clean
and opposite her had old bloke want upper windows cleaning cause he can do the lower ones.
Got flyers coming soon cant wait to get out and flood the town
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i agree its a free country and all that but everyone just thinks we get it so easy.
they lose their job and think i know il start window cleaning il just go and canvis over this estate its as easy as that. thats fair enough if their gonna stick at it and really try and make a proper go of it but you know in three months time their just gonna move on to somthing else their rats and its they who give us window cleaners a bad name.
as for me i worked for someone for years and when he decided to move on i took over and he let me pay him off in three years i have over trippled the work and agree with the unwritten rule that you do not go into another window cleaners area.
saying that i also think that if their not doing their job right and you are getting countless ammounts of people asking you to come into that area then its fair game. i also never ask for another window cleaners price before i quote i give my quote and if mines cheaper then fair enough if its not then its not il not drop my price because i beleive i give a fair price and do not over charge and will never do a job for less than i would be happy with.
as for you steveallan lose the attitude youve obviously invested money in this game and intende on sticking at it fair play to you i do not put you in the same class as these rats i class you as fair compitition
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I might be a bit of a newbie, but I started off with a sensible head on. I will not undercut. The only person to win then is the customer. I will quote a job at a price that I'm happy at, if that happens to be under the current guy, then that's just the way it is. I make a point of not asking what people are paying at the moment.
Not that I activly go out canvassing another guys work either you understand. But I have found that the established window cleaners in any one area will not clean every single house on a street. And there certainly won't furnish me with a list of what they don't do.
Itry my best not to step on anyones toes, but until someone else pays my mortgage for me, I'll just carry on. I'm not the cheapest and I'm not the most expensive, but I try to offer what the customer wants, not what I want to offer. Being genuine when speaking to prospective clients helps too. I don't want to rob anyone, Just survive these dark times like everyone else.
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I try my best not to step on anyones toes, but until someone else pays my mortgage for me, I'll just carry on. I'm not the cheapest and I'm not the most expensive, but I try to offer what the customer wants, not what I want to offer. Being genuine when speaking to prospective clients helps too. I don't want to rob anyone, Just survive these dark times like everyone else.
TRUE WORDS
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hate is a very harsh word, I will always believe in a competitive market and welcome anyone to the business, in fact if anyone is starting out in Inverclyde I you can e-mail me and I will give any advice and help I can, spend the day with me if you like to see what it is really like.
Anyone quoting unprofitable prices won’t be around for long, and if they are around for a while then I might ask myself if I am overcharging, or they must be running a more efficient business than me. I am generally not concerned if another window cleaner is charging £1 less than me, I believe I offer a very good quality of work and service that justifies my price and welcome the competition.
There was two post that I would like to comment on, one Tony Lee, I completely agree with this and definitely think most will quit, it takes a certain kind of character to do the job of a window cleaner, and allot of commitment to build a round from scratch.
A secondly, Steve Allan. Your obviously a bit annoyed by this topic, and as a newbie I am not surprised but think this is mainly targeted at people charging 50% of less the average self-employed window cleaner and is generally on the dole or someone starting out that hasn't really researched the business properly and at the end of the year realises they have made a loss and quits, but it sound like you are on the right track and should do very well mate, and all the best to you. In fact I applaud you for getting up and getting on with it, instead of ending up on the dole.
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Will newbies quit?
If there are no jobs about what choices does anyone have - get fed up and do what exactly?
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why would you want to help out potential compitition to start up their business i dont under stand that its business after all and the less window cleaners there is the better it should be for you
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I totally agree with Reflection on this one, Dont know why you guys are going off the wall about this, Dont get me wrong if someone wants to start w/c thats upto them and fair is fair, but they'v got to at least know a sensible price for the houses they flyer/knock, not stupid money thats going to eventually turn w/c into a pointless job.
KNOW YOUR PRICES, KNOW YOUR ROLE! im out 8)
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Reflection - sorry about that, i retract that part, not normally arsy ;D
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I dont really think there will ever be no jobs, less yes, few and far between yes, but not none.
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no problem steve as i say fair play to you who really want to make a go at it
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why would you want to help out potential compitition to start up their business i dont under stand that its business after all and the less window cleaners there is the better it should be for you
Because I was once in there shoes starting out and my chirldren may be in years to come, its called humanity. Also your entire thread is about newbies not charging correctly so wouldnt helping them give advice and show them be the best way of stopping newbies charging too low. Not hanging them out to dry.
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i think il have to disagree on that one any compitition is bad compitition your in business to make money not friends and its my kids im thinking of when i say that i would love to be able to build up a great business that when the kids grow up they can help me run etc and eventually own themselves.
sounds like im a real git reading that im not really just want to do well for my family
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I too have noticed a few more wcs round here lately but as long as they don't poach my custies then let them carry on. After all its free enterprise. If you look in Yellow pages you'll always see pages and pages of plumbers and electricians who all have to make their living. The trick is to always try and keep ahead of the competition.
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when ever we want a job doing we look for a cheap price we dont always go for the cheapest but decide on a number of issues, our customers are exactly the same if we are providing a good reliable service and they know we are trustworthy then for the sake of saving a pound a month they will probably stay with what they already have.
if someone comes and halfs our price then probably the customer will change if the new window cleaner cant make it pay at this they will soon stop and the customer will return, if the window cleaner can make it pay then tough luck you must of been charging too much in the first place and you need to look at how your running your business.
its called survival learn to deal with it
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I have nothing against newbies,... its the cowboys that are the problem.
The summer "beer money brigade" type, who have been an annoyance in the past, but who are multiplying rapidly in the current economic climate.
I think its actually a dangerous attitude that is brewing in the industry at the moment. We're going from a very helpful community to a bunch of guys who won't give advice or help to anyone new. With most of the new guys working off ladders, this lack of advice might see more injuries & deaths in the industry in the coming months.
Weed out the cowboys,.. and continue to help the genuine newbies,.. their lives could be saved by your 20 minutes and a quick WFP demo,...
Perhaps licensing outside of Scotland isn't such a bad idea after all???
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Easy tigers.....Easy!
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I like newbies as a lot don't last long and a lot do a rubbish job and when they go we get to pick up all there work at a good price.
When a customer gets a good window cleaner they tend to stick with them.
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ressession hits and all of a sudden theres new window cleaners popping up every where they make me so angry i know wot your all gonna say as long as im doing my work right i shouldn need to worry but when they are charging such stuppid prices the customers cant resist and i understand that because every one is trying to save money at the minute anyway they come into the estate canvis charge stupid prices get ten or so of your houses do them for a few months then the customer realises how bad they are and ask to come back on to our list im really starting to lose the head with these cowboys
born a window cleaner where you?
never made any mistakes in pricing.
some people on here get on my goat with their pious attitudes and cynical replies to new people asking questions.
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i think il have to disagree on that one any compitition is bad compitition your in business to make money not friends and its my kids im thinking of when i say that i would love to be able to build up a great business that when the kids grow up they can help me run etc and eventually own themselves.
sounds like im a real git reading that im not really just want to do well for my family
Reflection, I dont think your sound like a git, and your point is completely correct, the less compition the better to a point. More to go round the few of course means you will find business easy but my point is rather different. You cant change how many people there are in your business legitimately without breaking the law. But you can set a high standard for others to follow. You asked why would I help a newbie...
Well it would be a bit big headed to think that they would fail if I didn't and it isn't quite incurraging people the start window cleaning only helping the ones that are already. So advantages to doing that, well you know the areas they work, they may pass work to you, if they do decide to quit they may offer to sell or give there round to you, if you advise them well they wont go undercutting etc. You go to any industry in the country, taxi drivers, driving instructors, shop managers they are all friendly with and know others that work in there area. THere is good stregic advantage to this even just from an informative point, I guess I am saying keep your emimies close, but without the malous intent.
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I've been going 2 years now and am doing quite well. Certainly speaking from experience, I thought picking up good customers would be easy. How wrong I was! Anybody starting out will soon realise this. I think it will make or break them. They hear all the success stories but don't realise the serious hard graft and effort that goes in to building up a round. Any custys I lose because of cheaper quotes will pay more when they come crawling back. So I'm not that worried, just riding the storm! :)
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ressession hits and all of a sudden theres new window cleaners popping up every where
dont know what your problem is,everyone has to start somewhere,people probley thought the same about you when you started ;D ;D
It's a good thing!
Most will fail and disappear without trace. It's very hard to start up and create enough income to live on
Tony
I dont hate them , it's a free country
Dont worry be happy.
;)
Your type p*ss me off, im out there trying to make a go of this after redundancy, have invested in wfp, had some training, do both wfp and trad and quote sensible prices and im not a cowboy thanks and have no intention of jacking in after 2 cleans.
- adapt and overcome.
I have nothing against newbies,... its the cowboys that are the problem.
The summer "beer money brigade" type, who have been an annoyance in the past, but who are multiplying rapidly in the current economic climate.
The above comment, say a lot about human nature... :-[
MY COMMENT IS THIS...
All window cleaners are only as good as their customer base... if your customers leave you it doesn't matter if you have been cleaning for 20 years or 20 minutes! 8)
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Im a newbie started a couple of months ago,people on here complain about newbies starting out and
taking work from them by undercutting.When im out leafleting if i see the house owner i ask ,do you have a window cleaner if the answer is yes i say thanks you move on any post the next house would never say i can do it cheaper. but it also affects us newbies that charge a decent amount .
I had leaflets made stating prices from £6:50 ,but my average price is £8:00,posted an whole village most were 3/4 beds didnt get any responce ,only to find out a couple of guys charging £5:00.
Had my leaflets changed prices from £5:00 have had more calls but still charge £ 8:00,wouldnt charge less than that . But i do think i will find it hard in the coming months for example my mum had i flyer through the door stating it will cost £5 to clean your windows ,my mums window cleaner charges her £14 because she have a large extention as my dads disabled ,im in it for the long run ,and most of the work ive pick up this month as been first cleans ,but how do we compete with the £5 cleans
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Unfortunately we either compete or go and work as a shelf filler in the local supermarket!
Diversify!!! offer other services, cleaning, gutters, jet wash paths, gardening, rubbish removal anything to bring the money in, until your round is up and running! ;)
If the price is right I do all the above! 8)
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hate is a very harsh word, I will always believe in a competitive market and welcome anyone to the business, in fact if anyone is starting out in Inverclyde I you can e-mail me and I will give any advice and help I can, spend the day with me if you like to see what it is really like.
id be interested, im not in inverclyde, but not that far away either, looked for a contact addy/pm but you dont appear to have one
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I'm neutral with newbies. I don't encourage competition, but it's inevitable it will happen.
What I do dislike is dole brigade undercutting and not paying taxman which gives them the advantage.
Established window cleaners should feel comfortable with existing regular customers despite the recession if they've looked after their customers as most of them retain your services because of the trust.
Plenty of low priced work around for the taking but it's getting harder to find decent new work with so many new window cleaners emerging because of current financial situation. However, I'm not stupid, or desperate enough to take on jobs where customers appear dodgy (gut instinct) or jobs that are best suited to trad work not wfp. I'd rather pick and choose the decent ones at sensible prices and forget the NTC's.
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As for newbies on here asking daft arsed questions just laugh at it, and help the ones that appear worth helping.
Oh dear.. that makes me feel awful! :P I'm totally serious about starting up but i'm gonna have a bundle daft questions to ask :o
I've been fitting car windscreens for 5 years and other guys around me in the trade used to laugh at 'newbies' when thay asked why it was important to prime the edge of the windscreen. Does anyone here know? No? pah! I laugh at you not knowing coz I was BORN with windscreen fitting knowledge! ...Actually, thinking back, me and all the others probably asked the same dumb question when we started out.
My point is, if us 'newbies' can't rely on a bit of help from decent folk then what chance does the world have? I'm sure everyone moaning about newbies on here have asked for advice on other things in the trade on this forum. At the end of the day everyone is competition, and your more likely to lose work to an exprienced w/c than a rookie.
I hope I can still get advice and help from some of you guys. I'm serious about making a career for myself although I don't know how anyone can tell which newbies are serious and what ones ain't :-\
I have a rule that I will stick too. I won't undercut anyone on purpose and I won't sell myself cheap. I feel £10 for a 3/4 bed house in the London area is cheap and expensive enough, if you get what I mean.
I'd certainly rather clean less windows for more money than loads for peanuts.
After all, it's more than beer money for me - it'll be my life!
(now I hope I just haven't made you all my enemies! GULP!
PS - you need to prime a windscreen or the bond won't stick and set. The screen would fly out on impact... :P
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some people on here get on my goat with their pious attitudes and cynical replies to new people asking questions.
couldnt agree more, im starting to realise its not the forum thats gone downhill lately,its the caliber of window cleaner joining it.
this used to be such a helpfull place for any new starter, as we all were once, seems a shame :(
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hate is a very harsh word, I will always believe in a competitive market and welcome anyone to the business, in fact if anyone is starting out in Inverclyde I you can e-mail me and I will give any advice and help I can, spend the day with me if you like to see what it is really like.
id be interested, im not in inverclyde, but not that far away either, looked for a contact addy/pm but you dont appear to have one
Check you e-mail GTR
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As for newbies on here asking daft arsed questions just laugh at it, and help the ones that appear worth helping.
Oh dear.. that makes me feel awful! :P I'm totally serious about starting up but i'm gonna have a bundle daft questions to ask :o
Ask as many questions as you like... that's the whole idea of a forum!
A note to all Newbie hater's (sorry dislikers!) those that don't wish to answer don't have too! 8)
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Cheers Chameleon, Nice to know still some decent folk out there. I'm sure the haters (sorry 'dislikers') are in the minority.
Now...prepare for the onslaught of 'daft' questions coming soon... ;D
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Just to clarify for you I am not a hater or even a disliker of Newbies.
We all had to start somewhere, and fortunately my dad was a W/C, and I knew many and trained with some before I started out on my own, so I had advice at hand and didnt have to rely on the forum.
I did not mean to make you feel bad with what I said personally. I will clarify what I meant if you like, I get a little irritated with the new ones who don't appear to do any research whatsoever before they ask questions, if you look back you will find some examples. Some even ask what they should charge and post a picture of a house.
So they want to be in a business and they havent worked out what their own pricing structure is!!!
The trouble is not with genuine business minded new starters its the really cheap poaching dole boy types. The guy who posted this thread has obviously been affected by these types, so naturally I will sympathise with him.
If you are serious, and do a bit of homework then I would willingly help you.
Ok so dont take offence.
Maybe my use of the term "daft arsed question" was not appropriate and just too general.
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I have been a window cleaner for nearly 20 years now, happy with what i do, i make a good living out if it.
But for some reason if i lost all my work ( pray i don't ) and could not pay my bills and keep my family happy, I would go out and do any job what so ever to pay the bills
Even if it means under cutting someone and taking there work, as long as i keep my house and family happy. I believe they say something like dog eat dog...
So what if we get newbies, i really think we would all do the same if we had no work.
LEAVE THE NEWBIES ALONE
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ok sorry everyone maybe newbie was the wrong word to use i think we all know by now the type of people i ment so to every decent newbie dont take offence and good luck in your business
think thats a good point actually darren but it doesnt stop me getting angry when it happens to me
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ok sorry everyone maybe newbie was the wrong word to use i think we all know by now the type of people i ment so to every decent newbie dont take offence and good luck in your business
think thats a good point actually darren but it doesnt stop me getting angry when it happens to me
It takes a man to admit they were wrong, well said.
The ones i hate are the ones still getting a dole cheque ( if they still pay it that way ) , get everything paid for by the state ( us ) and don't pay any tax.
Then they can give cheaper prices because they don't have the overheads like us.
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Yeah right on!! One of my customers had 7 window cleaning leaflets in a month.
That doesn't help when you want to put up your prices in April or Jan.
Newbies are not great for business
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I don't think it is "newbies" that are the problem, its "cowboys" and "doleboys" that I don't like >:(
Well said!
I'm a 'newbie' (Jeez, that sounds like 'teletubbie' or something) but i'm 100% serious in starting up.
I won't be signing on, I will be insured and I won't uncut others to snatch work. I'll set my prices and stick to them.
One thing is for sure, if i'm to by supplies, pay tax, run a van, cover my holidays, pay my insurances etc etc, then i won't be cleaning 3/4 bed houses for a fiver! ??? I couldnt afford too. So straight away, even as a 'newbie', i'm gonna hate the dole drawing, beer money, £5 per house bandits too...
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takeone thers a beter looking cat in the sun to day lol
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Yeah right on!! One of my customers had 7 window cleaning leaflets in a month.
That doesn't help when you want to put up your prices in April or Jan.
Newbies are not great for business
Not sure about putting prices up this year, might be mistake.
I put up my prices beginning of last year, before the credit crunch was in the papers and news , I think you might be better waiting a little bit longer or risk losing some work...
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If you go the traditional route, take care, ladder use is something that takes years to get right, and thats when it gets really dangerous!!
No worries there, I done ladder work for many years fitting Satelite dishes for SKY. I did all the training etc, however I do ultimately want to go WFP with it all where possible...
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takeone thers a beter looking cat in the sun to day lol
Yea, I saw the sorry looking thing ;D ;D ;D
..It reminded me of the Mrs... :-*