Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: suffolkclean on March 03, 2009, 03:47:48 pm
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Hi - I've been asked to quote to clean hard floors (not carpeted) she said they get buffed once a year. We have not done any work on this side yet, I have read your comments regards to the Prochem Hard Flooring Course and it didn't get great comments.
Been told it has black marks on and would be buffed once a year.
Does anyone have any advice they can give me :-
Equipment needed (will probably hire a machine if we get this job), Chemicals used, I assume you charge per m2 - how much?? any tips would be appreciated
Thanks - Barbara
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Hrad Floor buffing, what type of floor?
Regards,
Rob
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I will be looking at it tomorrow - I will report my findings. Rob it's our first commercial cleaning one off quote to be done will include cleaning shower blocks etc the lot. We do lots of end of tenancy cleans at the moment. It may end up being a regular once a week contract, I assume I price higher for a one off? can you give me any idea of pricing, Its obviously something you do a lot of
email info@kc-services.com
Thanks
Barbara
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Hi,
It depends on the type of floor >> if it sealed >> the state of the seal >> is it polished? >> how much polish is left?
Generally a porous/semi porous hard floor is sealed and then layers of polish are built up ontop of it. These are sacrificial layers that wear away with traffic and can be rebuilt easily.
From your description of what they asked for its a simple spray buff which uses a neutral detergent (doesnt break down the polish) and a relatively no abrasive pad (tan/red?) Eg prochems prodet is good for this. Alternatively, you could use a wax like protreat for a better finish.
The trouble will come if the floor has had its polish layers worn off completely and or the seal is compromised.
There are way more experienced people on this board with respect to hard floors and i will leave the other stripping/sealing/poilishing bits to them.
Graeme
Access Cleaning Solutions
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Barbara
Take some pictures of the flooring and post them on here, then the guys can give you the proper advice
Bob
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Thanks Greame for your advice I really appreciate it & Rob I will take pics tomorrow to post
:)
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Sherco is very knowledgeable on hard floors.
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Hi I have done the hardfloor course at Prochem and found that all you need to know IS covered on it and in the manual BUT it is a lot to take in on 1 day.
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Yes I too have done the Procham HF course and thought it was really poor , like they had done that many time they couldn be arsed .
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Ability,How long ago was that because I did not find that at all.I do agree they do not go into grinding floors but thats renovation not cleaning/
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Ok I've taken a couple of pictures of the floor, generally dirty with black scuff marks which she said weren't all removed last time it was all cleaned.
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Another one - So I need to know how you recommend its clean also how much per m2, got to quote for tomorrow if possible - 140m2 in total for the hard flooring
Any contract cleaners reading this how much per hr do you charge for commercial one off cleans eg. cleaning shower blocks etc
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Barbara
You may be best posting this also in the general cleaning section.
"They" may not always read the carpet cleaning section.
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Hi Joe I know extactly what you mean but there dosn't seem to be much response when I put posts on that section on here. Not always as much feedback as the carpet cleaning & window cleaning section.
???
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Hi,
My experience of hard floor cleaning is limited, but i see your in a bit of a predicament with respect to timing, so i though i would post. Besides, Rab says your nice and he is a good friend so i will stick my neck out here.
Looking at the pictures it doesn't have a finish. It looks like the stuff they lay in communal areas of flats in Glasgow which is some kind of non porous vinyl (the best description i can come up with).
If your client is looking for it to "look clean" >> ie remove the black marks but leave no kind of lasting shine, I would hit it with a stripper and a green pad. Test it first in a corner to check there is no major reaction with the surface. I would use neat stripper and leave it for a couple of minutes and check the visuals. If there is no major colour change then proceed at recommended strength across the floor.
The black marks will need a bit more elbow grease than the rest and i use an edge scrubber >> a small rectangular version of a buffing pad attached to a mop handle. With this implement i usually take the handle off and go nuts on the mark till it goes, have never seen any bad reactions from the floor unlike a pilled carpet with too much agitation. They seem to be pretty resilient compared to carpets.
After the strip i would mop it with an acid rinse, more because we usually polish these floors than a re-soiling carpet type argument. I guess if you wanted to keep the costs down, you could just mop with water to remove the soiled stripper. A cotton bonnet comes in handy after a mop to remove the last bits of soiled stripper.
The key will be to get the soil into the solution phase then remove the dirty water.
Agitation >> Gets the dirt into solution phase.
Rinse >> Removes the dirty water to stop the dirt drying into the floor.
Im in no doubt i will get crucified by the purists for this approach.
Charging depends on what you feel comfortable with as price resistance is always in the mind of the seller. Remember, you have this job because the "last lot" were not performing. To stip it and rinse it at 140m is going to take an hour to 2 hours. So charge your rates.
If you were going to upsell to polishes and better finishes + easier maintenance then your looking at 5-6 hours for 3 coats (less is pointless imo).
Again, we work in mysterious ways compared to some, so purists lay off the nails, i have sore hands already.
Graeme
Access Cleaning Solutions
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Thanks for that Greame - Yes it is as you say a very pouris, rough surface, I've just seen the same flooring in my little boys school. Its very matt surface, sorry when you say use a stripper what do you mean? (no rude answers please) :o, so am I right in thinking that theres not a buffing machine involved just lots of elbow grease. They will want the cheapest option so no coatings on top.
Another helpful scotsman - Thanks (although I'm biased I'm married to one)!
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To clean this thoroughly you would need a low speed rotary, using a green pad as suggested or a black pad which is more aggressive.
It may also be possible to use a scrub brush on the rotary to get it clean.
It all depends on your customer`s expectation.
It would be a lot quicker if you used a wet pick up or wet and dry vac to suck up the dirty stripper.
To clean this by hand would be very hard, dirty work and maybe not too effective.
Once cleaned you should apply several coats of finish/seal on it which are sacrificial coats i.e you wear out the finish/seal before the actual floor and would also make it easier to maintain but your customer does not wish to pay for this.
I would be looking for cleaning only £1.50 to £2.00 per sq. mt.
Cheers
David
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Barbara,
It looks from the pictures as if it is Altro flooring (the non-slip stuff).
Should feel rough when you run your hand over the surface!
If that is the case, I would suggest that you try Prochems Ultrapac Renovate, a standard speed rotary and plenty of Black/Brown pads. Make up a strong solution of chemical and mop hand hot water on generously, leave for 10 mins, then start scrubbing, stubborn marks will need you to get down on your knees and give it some welly, using perhaps neat chemical, clean the floor a bit at a time, do not try to clean the whole floor in one hit.
As suggested by Access, use a "Doodle Bug" (Edge Scrubber ;D) for the edges, and the most stubborn marks.
Once you have scrubbed an area, use a decent wet and dry to remove the slurry, go back and check the area, removing any remaining marks by hand.
Move to another area, and repeat.
If it is Altro, using a stripper will do you no good, as there should be no seal or polish to remove, yes I know others say that you can put a water based polish on altro, but in my opinion you risk damaging the anti slip properties of the flooring, and you would never get the manufacturer to state in writing that you can put polish on the floor when there is a danger of the floor getting wet.
Regarding pricing for the floor, this again depends on how confident your are of getting the job done in one pass so to speak, and how close you are to water, and the waste area. I can see no reason why you shouldnt complete the job in a day, providing the floor is in one main area with a 2 man team.
Labour cost would be £320
Chemicals approx £60
Pads £40
As for the remainder, I would need more details, such as surfaces, sizes, walls etc.
Do not under price this one, it will be hard work if all the floor is in that sort of state, and you will only really know, if you got it right when finished, you gain experience on this one, then use that knowledge, to get closer the next time round, sorry couldnt be more help!
Regards,
Rob
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Looking at the photo`s more closely it does look like safety flooring which should not be sealed as it negates the non-slip properties.
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barbara
known as altro safety flooring[as already stated]
follow robert parrys schedule[well written good advice]
colin.
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Rob - You have Mail
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Get someone who knows what their doing, watch them and do the same thing the next time.
You dont want to buy this floor as it would look crap in your lounge.
Mark
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Hi Barbara
I think that rob is the one to go with but I would disagree on one or two points.
Firstly on Altro safety floors I was told by Altro that you should never use a black
pad it is too aggressive and can pick up carbon black from the aluminium particles in
the floor
Secondly I was told by Altro and Prochem that you CAN apply up to 3 coats of polish
PROVIDED that the floor is not in a wet area and y
ou get the customers written permission
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Sorry Barbara,I forgot to add that on my previous post that it only applys
to ALTRO Floors and not any other manufacturers.You can always contact Paul
Gardiner of Tech services at Letchworth he is usually very helpful.
If I have any doubts I always seek advice from either the chemical maufacturer
or the flooring manufacturer.
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Expro,
I agree with you on the black pad, but in my defense, the floor looks in poor condition, so I would be surprised if any reaction took place, and I should have put TEST FIRST!
So many thanks for the words of caution ;D
Regarding the polish, this is not the first time I have heard this, many moons ago, there was a bit of a debate on this very matter, when I phoned ALTRO I asked them to put that in writing, they refused! Although, verbally was a different matter ;D
Personally, I would never put polish on any safety flooring, in todays climate, some one trips, slips, I know who would be liable, no matter what.
Barbara, you have mail, and many thanks for taking the trouble to say thanks :)
Regards,
Rob
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Re previous posts on this.
Its Altro.
They are in Letchworth, Herts they have a really friendly tech dept.
They will send you easy to understand instructions and probably send you a couple of litres free of their cleaner, as above, clean with a machine, that way you get uniform pressure on the floor, if you get down on your hands and knees you are putting more pressure than a machine and you will possibly get uneven areas. (You weigh more than a machine, geddit).
You might need to use a mild solvent like white spirits on the black marks (called heel scar) that will impress 'em.
And off you go.
Good luck.
Murky
Rinse it with a mild acid to neutralise it just in case, and no, you dont put a dressing on it.
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Thanks murky - I will get in touch with them, you've all been great for info on this. My husband is going to go on the prochem hard flooring course too. I will contact altro in Letchworth I like to sound of free chemicals. If we get this job it'll be a real learning curve.
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We've got the job! ;D So big thanks to everyone especially Rob incl.help on pricing was great. I've contacted Altro and they emailed a leaflet with information on regards to cleaning. I'll have to take some AFTER pics
Barbara
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Good news Barbara,
Well done, hope it's the first of many!
Dont forget to let us know how you got on.
Regards,
Rob
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I will Rob - As you said hope its the first of many. She didn't say an outright NO either on my regular contract price she said she'll let me know on that one. I'm sure she's waiting to see how well we do on the one off - no pressure ehh 8)
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Job complete!! Floors came up lovely apart from some black marks which wouldn't come off even with 100% Ultrapec renovate, hubby said it was scraped with studs from football boots. Did exactly as you said Rob, used Green pads hired scrubber & bought a wet & dry hoover. Cleaners hoovered all floors then took 8 hours to clean which wasn't bad at all.
Customer was going to look at it this morning and I havn't heard anything yet?
Thanks for everyones advice on this one ;D
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Hi Barbara,
Glad to hear all went well, on to the next one now!
Regards,
Rob
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My thoughts too. The flooring 'looks' like 'non slip Safety Flooring'. A Health Centre that we clean has just had all it's new extension fitted out with it but in a different colour.
We haven't had to deep clean it yet as it's all very new, but I would advise against using a soft bonnet as suggested in an earlier post, (in good faith) as the floor will rip it to shreds.
Definitely don't use any sealant products if it is non slip though.
Les ;)
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Ignore my comments....
it would appear that I missed page 2 before posting my comments.
Glad it went well, one way or the other we're all learning, hopefully, all the time.
Les ;)
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Sorry I missed the boat on this one.
We clean Altro flooring on new installations and it certainly can be a nightmare.
We have however discovered the best method is to use Altro's own product, Altro 44 for regular grime and stains. We dilute with hot water and spray using a low pressure sprayer. We then use a rotary fitted with a blue poly brush to scrub the entire area. We then we extract with a wet vac and finally dry buff with a microfibre mop.
The real problem for us comes in the form of gloss paints, adhesives and worst of all resins that get splashed about. For this we have best success with a solvent cleaner and a combination of rotary with poly and elbow grease.
Some resins will not budge though which means the flooring is already ruined. The problem is that you won't know until you try. Be sure you point this out to your client from the off. Never guarantee results, only that you will do your best.
As others have said Altro themselves are as helpful as can be and I cannot fault them and their technical advice. If in doubt then give them a call.
Best wishes
Ian
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Yes the flooring is Non slip Altro. Altro emailed me info on cleaning advice - manual & with machinery.As you can see from pics its ivory coloured and used a lot for footballers, there is a notice saying 'no football boots' which is obviously ignored.
I've learned a lot on this one - I'm now looking at hard floors thinking -oh that looks like altro flooring (I'm SAD) ;D
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She called today - DELIGHTED with the work we did, it looked amazing and said the floor had never been cleaned so well!! She sai ' I don't know what you used on it but its the best clean it's ever had'!!
That was a nice end to the week ;D
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Can't wait to see the pictures it's been a long long time since I did a hard floor. Congratulations Barbara and hubby, how big was the area? and (if a dare) how much did you charge?
Shaun
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Barbara,
140sqm
Labour cost would be £320
Chemicals approx £60
Pads £40
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Lets see the pics then.
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Hi Shaun, it was 140m2 in total, we did a full clean toilets, sinks, severe lime-scale removed on about 15 shower heads, windows etc. Did charge the price as noted above - Just looked back at the before pics - god they were pretty bad.
Ok - few pics of floors cleaned ;D
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Clinton no that was one part of it, I needed advice on flooring as we've never dealt with hard floor cleaning (apart from a quick clean over) this was a different ball game all together.
Me & 3 other cleaners did the general cleaning.
Great experience - I'd like to get more of this work!
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Good experiance then barbara :)
It will give you more confidence the next job :)
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I know - hubby is doing hard floor cleaning course in May so that'll help too
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Get yourself a dry fusion or type and then you could do some office floor areas to go with your hard floors :)
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Sorry clinton dry fushion?? could you elaborate ???
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Barbara
Its a low moisture cleaning system like a buffer and you can clean low profile office carpets quick and it drys quick so its a great selling point also you dont get wick back :)
Or use a buffer with pads and just use prochem bonnet buff as a pre spray :)
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http://www.dryfusionuk.com/ ;)
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Fantastic Susan, any pros and cons that you came across?
Shaun
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Hi Shaun, He used ultrapac renovate diluted in warm water, mopped over area, left for a bit, scrubbed with rotary then up with wet & dry vac, any stubborn marks he used neat U.R and scrubbed like mad
Barbara !
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Sorry clinton dry fushion?? could you elaborate ???
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=270363128804
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Thats only a miniture kit Dennis.
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Thats only a miniture kit Dennis.
Anybody interested in this, they have added a couple of decent pictures.
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Decent size photos now Dennis. How did they get them so small before?
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Decent size photos now Dennis. How did they get them so small before?
I'm guessing they pinched the first off a website. :-X