Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Milltown Cleaning on March 01, 2009, 11:30:28 pm
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ok folks - give it all to me... info that is!
Im thinking of switching to WFP, but im hearing all sorts of positives and negatives. My run is pretty much all domestic, how happy are people going to be if i do their windows with this system? if a crow flies by 2 days after i have cleaned there windows - in the summer. and its baked onto the window, is the WFP going to shift that at all? And all the other possibel problems! how big a problem are they!?
Im just a little tentative at the moment!
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Your customers will take to WFP just fine its a lot easier converting people now adays as most people have seen a window cleaner at some point using WFP.
Baked on birds crap is easy to get rid off WFP if its a bit stubborn just soak and come back to that window 5 minutes later and it will come off.
Milltown Cleaning
And all the other possibel problems!
Now what problems are those?
To be honest there is hardly any problems with WFP
Most problems are down to user error and easy to overcome.
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The truth is - you aint going to fall off and you will earn a bit more.
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I am all for WFP. ;D
But I wouldnt actually say you wont have an issue. If everyone is honest not all customers like WFP.
There are still jobs that only traditional will do. And Even though I am keen on WFP sometimes I thinks its easier with traditional on certain types of windows.
As for earning more, well i dont disagree. But I am not sure if its actually proven. I know you can get more work and because of that i guess you can earn more. Yes it better for the high windows certainly. As for safety its superb. No ladders. Ground floor windows mmm! have to question that one. That includes shop front windows. I am not sure its actually a better result.
I myself cant tell the differnce between a clean window that has been done by a decent window cleaner traditionally or by WFP after wfp window has dried. And I dont just mean my windows that I do.
traditional is also cheaper running costs. WFP you have to purchase a setup that is right for you. Trolley/ van mount. Or you might need both.. Why? Well you might not be able to get access with a van mount on all/every job. Then if you want a 000 TDS reading you have the expense of the DI Resin. Not cheap. Then you have the filter in the RO and carbon filters etc. Plus even with WFP you will occassionally require trad.
What about a residential front double glazed door? I dont think every customer wants to step into a puddle of water even if they have beened pre warned to wear wellingtons.
After your investment, you ned to get back ROI return on investment. How long will that take you? I know window cleaners that have purchased van mount systems in this climate... and they are saying its going to take several years to get back the investment. AND ARE WISHING THEY HADNT DONE IT.
So think long and hard dont let any one sway you in either direction. If you mainly do residential why not ask them how they feel about you going WFP. Find out there feed back. Explain to them its for safety reasons etc. Explain that its pure water, the process. And most importantly that the windows will be LEFT WET, LIKE JUST WHEN IT RAINS. How will they feel about that? before you purchase what some say the be all and end all product that in my opinion isnt!
But it is great peice of kit, it certainly has it place. Their have been lots of new jobs without it I certainly could not do. But I mainly do commercial.
All the best in your new vnture on WFP.
Dave
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Truth 1. (as Jeff said) you will be far safer.
You need no other truths really, respect for your own life should be enough of a reason to change.
Truth 2. It cleans very well, once you have mastered the technique which takes about 2-3 months to get right and another 1 year or so to perfect.
Truth 3. You will be able to work shorter days (after about 3 months), but you will be working your body harder.
Truth 4. It is a lot more expensive to set up than a bucket and squeegee.
Truth 5. There will days that you wished you never invested (when your pump plays up or a small connection fails etc)
Truth 6. After a year or so you will wish that you had always cleaned windows this way. I still 'kick' myself that I hadn't listened to my American friends 16 years sooner.
There are more, but that's all for now.
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Truth 1. (as Jeff said) you will be far safer.
You need no other truths really, respect for your own life should be enough of a reason to change.
Truth 2. It cleans very well, once you have mastered the technique which takes about 2-3 months to get right and another 1 year or so to perfect.
Truth 3. You will be able to work shorter days (after about 3 months), but you will be working your body harder.
Truth 4. It is a lot more expensive to set up than a bucket and squeegee.
Truth 5. There will days that you wished you never invested (when your pump plays up or a small connection fails etc)
Truth 6. After a year or so you will wish that you had always cleaned windows this way. I still 'kick' myself that I hadn't listened to my American friends 16 years sooner.
There are more, but that's all for now.
Alex, all good points but you are a supplier of WFP. Thats like talking to a car salesman or an estate agent when buying a car or house.
Dave
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Been a window cleaner a lot longer - going on 24 years! Most of my time is still spent window cleaning each week :D
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So Alex can you honestly tell me then, can you see the difference in a window that has been cleaned traditionally and a WFP CLEANED Window after it has dried..
Your honest opinion as a window cleaner please.
Dave
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The majority of your clients are not really bothered about how you clean their windows, as long as you get them clean and clear off after charging them a fair price.
Most residential clients' eyes glaze over after 5 minutes from you chatting on about zero TDS, 1/12 litres per minute pure flow, 100psi pump, flow controllers, mini bore, ibs tanks blah blah blah...
Just clean the windows! as quickly, safely, and efficiently as you can.
It's a big initial outlay, and it doesn't suit everyone.
Here is the honest truth........
There is a trade off from doing it the old way.
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Dont forget the good old spots
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The old way ie. Trad(itional):
View the window close up, clean every little speck, scrape off if necessary, dry glass, edges and frames.
WFP:
No ladders, reach almost any window you need to safely, wash windows, frames, fascias, conservatory roofs easy. But can leave runs, spots and sometimes you miss the birds muck stains but you do get better at sorting it all out, even snail trails.
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So Alex can you honestly tell me then, can you see the difference in a window that has been cleaned traditionally and a WFP CLEANED Window after it has dried..
Your honest opinion as a window cleaner please.
Dave
My honest opinion is that from inside you can usually tell how a window has been cleaned either by the absence or presence of detailing marks on the edges of the glass. Squeegees/scrims always leave faint detailing lines/marks, unless the operator is absolutely meticulous. A window cleaned well with WFP leaves no such marks.
However I would say that it is possible to leave a window spotted with WFP, this again is down to technique and experience. After a 3-4 months or so of WFP work it will usually only be the odd problem window that will leave spotting. I have noticed on my own house though (another window cleaner does my own property) that this occasional spotting (I have some very awkward windows) is usually less visible than the odd squeegee mark that used to be left. You will miss the odd thing occasionally, but then I used to with trad methods. The number of times having done the inside on a hotel I have had to go back out and pick up after myself having used trad methods is more than now using WFP.
It is better to be very thorough for the first few months with WFP and ignore all of the ultra quick WFP videos that there are on the net. You will soon learn how you can speed up, but if you do not get the windows right in this time period it can be very hard to learn later as you are wanting to go fast not stop and learn. There are a lot of dodgy WFP operators out there just as there have been with traditional methods. (no-one on this forum though!)
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Well Alex,
Your spot on i must say.
You certainly have been a window cleaner for 24 years. Its nice to see other suppliers that know their stuff.
I may even consider looking at your site.
Dave
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its not a problem for me when sumert stops or leks i just sort it , it is part of the job now , as are the hose that snags just sort it with x you see wher to tralal pipe , its a hole difreant ball game you have to lern but you will learn how , i wish id started out WFP , after two weeks i thort on way im i going back up a bludy ladder , thats why iv got ladder less window cleaner on van if its trad it not me unleass its in side
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do a proper job first clean scrubbing all frames vents sills etc then go back and clean glass only, if this is done you wont have any problems on maintenance cleans after, if this isnt done then you may have spotting and runs on some windows where dirt is dislodged and runs onto glass.
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Truth 6. After a year or so you will wish that you had always cleaned windows this way. I still 'kick' myself that I hadn't listened to my American friends 16 years sooner.
My only regret.
Im not bandying round figures here, but I did the equivalent of half a weeks ladder work today and was home by 2.
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I do the insides of an office block that OCS do the outsides of; and you wouldn't believe the mess they leave behind.
There must be something about these windows, because I used to leave the odd spot or run; and I was fairly thorough; but these guys who took over the exterior of the building because of a new management company; leave a real mess.
I did the job this morning (I do the insides), and I just can't get over the naff job they do.
They shouldn't bother; the windows look worse than if they'd just left them alone.
I almost felt guilty because what's the point of me cleaning the insides when the exterior is covered in runs and spots?
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So Alex can you honestly tell me then, can you see the difference in a window that has been cleaned traditionally and a WFP CLEANED Window after it has dried..
Your honest opinion as a window cleaner please.
Dave
I am not a supplier so have no axe to grind as it were.
You can see when a job has been cleaned by WFP, (particularly jobs that have WFP for a few months), the difference is most striking, especially a week or so after a clean.
With trad. within a short time the windows look dirty again, with WFP they still sparkle after 1 or 2 weeks.
Trad leaves a film of detergent encouraging new dirt, that's a fact.
Likes as not for the most part WFP is knocked by those too scared or too skint to do it.
;D ;DLight blue touch paper stand well back ;D ;D
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Dave morris @ st-ives said -
Dont forget the good old spots
You should know by now dave that SPOTS is a banned word. ;D
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Hi guys i have been wfp for about 5 years and started with ladders for about 12 months doing the windows trd thay need cleaning every 4 weeks and customers could see that. but the only problem with wfp is some customers know thay don't need cleaning so often so thay want every 8 weeks instead so in one way we lose out and i think this will get worse in time. dave
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I almost felt guilty because what's the point of me cleaning the insides when the exterior is covered in runs and spots?
money, take it and run
how many of use have a house or 2 on our rounds that the insides are filthy and you CANNOT tell they have been done
i clean a house owned by 2 teachers, the insides havent been cleaned since way way before i started, they are filthy, loads of mould and mildew on them, its the easiest 10 quid i ever earn, rinse, why bother
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lol
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so i have come a lot closer to getting myself set up with a system. I visited the supplier today and thi is what im thinking of getting:
75litre trolley system with battery and controller
12-15 foot glass fibre pole
11litre DI vessel
4040 system
100m of 8mm hosing.
thats the main parts. The way i see myslef operating is having a static unit at my base where i will run the water through the 4040 AND the Di and store it untill i use it. I have a trailer so im going to use that for now, my only problem is thati need to use the trailer for other purposes. Have you guys any ideas of the best way to transport water than can easily remove from the trailer but also is easy to run into the trolley system?
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so i have come a lot closer to getting myself set up with a system. I visited the supplier today and thi is what im thinking of getting:
75litre trolley system with battery and controller
12-15 foot glass fibre pole
11litre DI vessel
4040 system
100m of 8mm hosing.
thats the main parts. The way i see myslef operating is having a static unit at my base where i will run the water through the 4040 AND the Di and store it untill i use it. I have a trailer so im going to use that for now, my only problem is thati need to use the trailer for other purposes. Have you guys any ideas of the best way to transport water than can easily remove from the trailer but also is easy to run into the trolley system?
What do you need a 4040 system for? How much water are you going to carry?
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ive been told its the most effeicent, effective system out there. but are you going to tell me something else?
im unsure as to how much water or how im going to carry my water as yet.
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4040 may be the best for producing large quantities of water fast. If you don't require this then a smaller 300 gallon per day unit will be adequate and cheaper to buy and service for a one man band provided you have a static tank. If you want to use the trailer for other things then containers of water would be your best bet so you can remove them quickly.
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yea i agree with you, i am goin to have a 1000 litre static tank at my house. so i think i will have a final chat with the man before i buy. They sell the 300GPD RO-man unit. i have 7-8 bar pressure at my house, with tds of 200. what kind of reading would this unit take the tds to?
yea im thinking of going with a few/lots of 25litre jars and maybe a few barrels to start with and i can build from there.
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I almost felt guilty because what's the point of me cleaning the insides when the exterior is covered in runs and spots?
money, take it and run
how many of use have a house or 2 on our rounds that the insides are filthy and you CANNOT tell they have been done
i clean a house owned by 2 teachers, the insides havent been cleaned since way way before i started, they are filthy, loads of mould and mildew on them, its the easiest 10 quid i ever earn, rinse, why bother
I have a custie like that. Always wants the outside doing and insides were always black. After 3years they finally cleaned the insides. I almost died of amazement. Insides are always kept immaculately clean nowadays. What a transformation. Miracles do happen.
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yea i agree with you, i am goin to have a 1000 litre static tank at my house. so i think i will have a final chat with the man before i buy. They sell the 300GPD RO-man unit. i have 7-8 bar pressure at my house, with tds of 200. what kind of reading would this unit take the tds to?
yea im thinking of going with a few/lots of 25litre jars and maybe a few barrels to start with and i can build from there.
I am not so sure you want a small RO UNIT. Those 300 a day were originally designed for marine & fisheries and to put under your kitchen sink for drinking water.
Consider this what if you get lots more work you will have to invest in a larger RO to cope with the amount of water you are using.
We have a 4040 but are even considering another one to run two as we have gained work.
Think carefully and buy what you need for your business. We deal in in mainly commercial but have residential as well.
Dave
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exactly - plan for the future... i dont intend to be a one man band in the future with a few days of cleaning. so it may be a few extra pounds at the minute, but may prove a saving in the future!
right its sorted, im buying!!
*runs to toilet as i realise the enormity of what im doing!!*
lol
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my order is placed - i should be fully functional by the middle of next week!
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Hi
The first month is always a nightmare after that its much quicker. The filter system will look after itself between filter changes. Its often the smaller things that get all the flack. The biggest problem I found was I spent money on some cheeper stuff and it broke within 5 mins. Don't bother with getting a cheep hose reel it will be the first thing break.
Rob
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Hi
The first month is always a nightmare after that its much quicker. The filter system will look after itself between filter changes. Its often the smaller things that get all the flack. The biggest problem I found was I spent money on some cheeper stuff and it broke within 5 mins. Don't bother with getting a cheep hose reel it will be the first thing break.
Rob
Yes that's very true I bought a B & Q hosereel once, what a laugh lasted half a day before I kicked it to death in rage after it jammed again. (temper temper)
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The truth about WFP,mmmm.
Most of the guys on here are gonna hate me saying this but I've been doing this job since I was 15 so I should know a little more than most.
On a domestic round there is NO BETTER way to clean windows and get consistent results than a ladder and squeegee.
PERIOD.
Now,bear in mind,I have been WFP for 2 years now and I have no intentions of going back to ladders full time even though I know it dosen't do as consistent a job.
Why?
Safety...simple as that.
Nothing to do with money,or having the latest cleaning gizmo etc....its just safer.
ANYBODY that tells you standing at a great distance from something and doing it does a better or as good a job as being up close at something is incredibly dumb and naive.
Wfp the tops and blade the bottoms that way you can at least be sure of most of your work.
Wfp can do a great job in the right hands but there are to many variables to get it 100% right all the time.
Thing is,I take my time WFP and because of that I see little if any difference in speed,unless its a large property,but I haven't had a complaint yet.But I know if I was to speed up there would be problems.
I still use ladders on alot of work and thats the work I dont have to worry about.
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It's very easy to produce pure water, Consider & invest in your pole & brush more as this will be the biggest influencing factor on wether you make a good job or not ;)
I would shoot the guy who advised you a 12 to 15ft f/g pole! :D
Trad = 100% sucsess rate
WFP = Can range from perfect to worse than before you cleaned them & the variables that determine this are too many to list.
Tony
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I would shoot the guy who advised you a 12 to 15ft f/g pole! :D
why?
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Get a 17ft xcel.Will cover most if not all a domestic round.
Best value pole out there.
Just realised your from n.ireland also.
Not many of us posting on here......so greetings!
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well i have also acquired a 2nd hand 24ft pole so hopefully between the 2 i will be covered.
so you are from the north? whereabouts you based?