Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: simon knight on February 27, 2009, 05:56:23 pm
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Lady isn't paying (£18). Phoned and left messages, sent texts...no response. Called round...never in.
I'm not gonna waste any more time with it but fully intend to return the dirt to her (front) windows the next time I'm passing. Nothing silly like eggs, oil or paint etc...just dip applicator into bucket, apply to windows and off I go.
Although I'm going to do it does anybody know what the law is on this?
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Screw the law ;D
Just say you felt guilty about having her dirt in your posession so decided to return her property.
Can you imagine the response she'd get from the rozzers when she calls PC Plod complaining about dirty windows.
Ive had it with a domestic account that has owed me £255.00 since the middle of December, I spoke to the guys house-keeper today, apparently the bod is down from London with his pals tomorrow, Im paying a visit ;)
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Finally got paid from one customer today after five cleans. Some people are unbelievable. ::)
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Nice one Matt ;)
ftp: 5 cleans? Blimey you're trusting! With me it's no 2nd clean until 1st is paid for.
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There is a legal principle called Debenture, where the goods remain your property until paid for.
I've wondered whether the principle would stretch to windows. As in, I haven't been paid so I will restore the windows to their pre-cleaned condition.
Failing that leave the engine running and do it ;D
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Send her a bill for £56, she will be on the phone like a shot, you then tell her that you posted someone elses bill by mistake, but as she called when would it be convenient to collect the £18.
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You are always going to get one or two people like that, I have had a couple before but just dropped them. Its not worth wasting your time. But remember even if its not the law, if anyone get word that it was you, your reputation could be damaged and it could cost you more. It is the law that you should be paid for your work though, but unfortunately it cost you more money every time you try and chase it up.
My advice it forget it and go and get another two customers that will treat you better, and lets face it, they will soon run out of window cleaners to flease and will be pretty diry soon enough anyway.
I once had another window cleaner warn me that one of my customers owed a bit of money to another window cleaner, and low and behold she was a pain in the beep. I never let her away with anything, and reminded her that she would not be done again untill she paid up for her last booking. Once it had been about 4 months since I did her and she asked me to do them again, and ask for her ballance be settled and got it, I even reqouted and added another couple of pound, but in the end I never went back when I got my money, not worth the hassel.
If anything I would do that, let the other cleaners know what they are like and to be careful, in turn damaging her reputation instead of yours, becuase thats what she deserves, no-one to trust her with a thing.
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You are always going to get one or two people like that, I have had a couple before but just dropped them. Its not worth wasting your time. But remember even if its not the law, if anyone get word that it was you, your reputation could be damaged and it could cost you more. It is the law that you should be paid for your work though, but unfortunately it cost you more money every time you try and chase it up.
My advice it forget it and go and get another two customers that will treat you better, and lets face it, they will soon run out of window cleaners to flease and will be pretty diry soon enough anyway.
I once had another window cleaner warn me that one of my customers owed a bit of money to another window cleaner, and low and behold she was a pain in the beep. I never let her away with anything, and reminded her that she would not be done again untill she paid up for her last booking. Once it had been about 4 months since I did her and she asked me to do them again, and ask for her ballance be settled and got it, I even reqouted and added another couple of pound, but in the end I never went back when I got my money, not worth the hassel.
If anything I would do that, let the other cleaners know what they are like and to be careful, in turn damaging her reputation instead of yours, becuase thats what she deserves, no-one to trust her with a thing.
good post definately best way of handling it
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thats exactly what i used to do used to really p me off had an old pole just diped into bucket of mud, and smeared the windies, but dont do it any more, i think plod would have something to say.
would be interesting aruging your case, "well officer she didnt pay so im returning her dirt!!" dont go too mad
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Hi Simon,
Im a special constable of nearly 5 years with staffordshire police and technically this is criminal damage.
2 wrongs dont make a right!!!
::) ::) ::)
I have had this happen to me though and believe it or not Ive done the old pad the window up and walk off trick.
Its best in the summer as it really bakes on the window.
I once had somebody who owed me £7k from commercial work and I arrested them for various fraud offences. Thats another story though 8)
Dean
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Hi Simon,
Im a special constable of nearly 5 years with staffordshire police and technically this is criminal damage.
2 wrongs dont make a right!!!
::) ::) ::)
I have had this happen to me though and believe it or not Ive done the old pad the window up and walk off trick.
Its best in the summer as it really bakes on the window.
I once had somebody who owed me £7k from commercial work and I arrested them for various fraud offences. Thats another story though 8)
Dean
how can it be criminal damage when nothing is damaged?? you are applying a layer of dirt
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I would like to do this but never would
because of my business reputation.
There is no way in a million years this is criminal damage!!!
Unless the law has changed since I have been out ;D ;D ;D
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it is criminal damage as a charge would likely be needed for the injured party to correct the damage done by the offender who applied the soap.
trust me its criminal damage.
as is egging a window.
Dean
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just wait it out they will pay in the end
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Live with it ! move on , whatever you do it will cause you mither and stress it aint worth it.
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I once sprayed christmas window spray paint (red) on a customer's windows who was a really bad payer.
I covered every square inch of every pane of glass including the bedroom ones. I had to go up a ladder to get the bedroom ones. It was on a Sunday morning. After I finished spraying their windows I knocked them up and politely told them to stick their debt up their backside as they screwed me I had just screwed them with Xmas window paint. I laughed my head off watching the muppets spend hours trying to remove it.
Funnily enough word got around the town very quickly what I had done and everybody was very quick to send payments afterwards. However I did lose a few customers because of this stupid but fun prank. I wouldn't do it again but I can look back and laugh at it now.
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I once sprayed christmas window spray paint (red) on a customer's windows who was a really bad payer.
I covered every square inch of every pane of glass including the bedroom ones. I had to go up a ladder to get the bedroom ones. It was on a Sunday morning. After I finished spraying their windows I knocked them up and politely told them to stick their debt up their backside as they screwed me I had just screwed them with Xmas window paint. I laughed my head off watching the muppets spend hours trying to remove it.
Funnily enough word got around the town very quickly what I had done and everybody was very quick to send payments afterwards. However I did lose a few customers because of this stupid but fun prank. I wouldn't do it again but I can look back and laugh at it now.
are you still i there christmas card list ;D ;D
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Criminal damage refers to crimes where a person intentionally or recklessly destroys or causes damage to another person's property
It is Not Criminal Damage
There would be enough to get arrested as there is reasonable suspicion that damage has been caused
but as you are just putting dirt back on windows then there is no damage.
There is not a court in this land that would convict a person of doing this.
Like I said it would not be something I would recommend as there could be repurcussions on your business name.
Russ
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Whether or not it's criminal damage or not my take on it is: I've taken the dirt away for a fee. The fee has not been paid therefore I'm return her goods...the dirt...she should be grateful I'm so honest ;D
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Exactly, good on ya ;D
*Pat on the back for Simon*
;)
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Many years ago I had one customer out of a whole street that I did, that made out they had paid, and refused to pay the amount I asked for.
I happened to be having a cup of tea with one of the other neighbours ( who happened to be quite a talker) and mentioned what had happened.
Well the next time I had a cup of tea with her, she said she had found just that amount of money sellotaped to her doorstep :o ;D ::)
It is amazing what " word of mouth " can do !
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HERE IS SOMETHING THAT WORKED FOR ME a customer refused to pay me quite determined he seemed on the doorstep. so sent him a letter requesting money on my letterhead and stated please take this as a formal warning that failure to pay will result in legal action which could incurr additional charges. then posted using signed for delivery service with post office i think it cost less than a pound.
but was proof of receipt a bit like using postman as a bailiff. low and behold cheque for £144 in the post by end of the week (definitely one i would use again as it was much cheaper than small claims court) give it a try it really is call my bluff, but what would you do if you had to sign for a letter like that, and owed money ???? :P
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but what would you do if you had to sign for a letter like that, and owed money Huh?
Well if you were naive you would probably buckle and pay, but unfortunately no-one can demand money from you unless serving a court order. (trust me I know on this one..lol). I had a couple of debts which were owed and threatened by bull y boy tactics (DCA), and they can do bugger all!!. There is a written law that states the only people who can knock on your door without an appointment is a postman and a person asking directions. Any other individual who stands on your doorstep requesting payment (other than a court bailiff with a court summons) can be removed by the police for tresspassing.
Just a little of my experience...lol ;) ;)
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I think thats likely to be disputed, unless youre going to re-define the word 'demand'
There is a written law that states the only people who can knock on your door without an appointment is a postman and a person asking directions. Any other individual who stands on your doorstep requesting payment (other than a court bailiff with a court summons) can be removed by the police for tresspassing.
In that case we're all guilty of law-breaking when we go collecting at night.
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lol lol I think its more a common law,
here is pretty much the reply to someone who threatens to "doorstep call" you
Should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you.
There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so, then you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.
Have used that a couple of times for reasons I won't discuss...lol and no-one has door knocked yet !!!...lol except a window cleaner...lol
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it wouldnt matter any way, because if they called the police to report you tresspassing you would just leave before they came, the point being you have ask for payment and they clearly are not giving you it so you've got your answer if they start giving you a speech like that, so either forget it or take them to court which I dont think a window cleaner is going to do, not unless its a really large amount.
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lol lol I think its more a common law,
here is pretty much the reply to someone who threatens to "doorstep call" you
Should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you.
There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so, then you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.
Have used that a couple of times for reasons I won't discuss...lol and no-one has door knocked yet !!!...lol except a window cleaner...lol
if you gave me that nonsense I would catch you in the supermarket and make sure everyone heard your refusing to pay for a service you requested.
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it wouldnt matter any way, because if they called the police to report you tresspassing you would just leave before they came
Exactly.
I agree, you do the work you get paid. I was just pointing out that if someone threatened me with court action (and I don't mean over a £10 or £12 or whatever window clean). I mean certain organisations that thrive/exist on an individual not knowing his rights and bullying them into payment, and I mean legitimate bullies not crombie jackets and hobnail boot brigade...lol.
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Whats a legitimate bully?
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DCA, Someone who preys on an individual for debt collection under the guise of a company and not taking into consideration the financial circumstances of that individual, and then threaten that particular individual with all kinds of court threats, bailiff calls and removing of possessions and maybe charges on property, when in fact they can do bugger all without the correct documentation or orders of court. Then continue to harrass the individual via phone calls, letters and "doorstep calling"
That is just my interpretation :)
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just go to clean them as normal but just clean the frames... thats if your water fed pole...
let the dirty drips run every were.....
someone asked the guy that worked for me to clean ther windows... i never got paid after three cleans... i finally got her going out the day we were due..i asked her for payment . said she never asked for hers to be done ... i called my mate over she just blanked us said she had a window cleaner
and got in her car...so done the above
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its criminal damage.
I once arrested a young lad for egging somebody's windows (it was non window cleaning related)
he was arrested for criminal damage. we found him with eggs in his bag.
Dean
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haha this forum is funny, dean is obviously in the know as a police officer yet some of you still "know better" even though you actually dont, just dont have the humility to listen to someone who knows something you dont ... it seems pointless coming on here if you wont have an open mind and not insist you know everything and are never wrong....
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He is a special
that is not a police officer
I am not going to go on any more on this post
If you read my post I stated enough to arrest
but there would only be a conviction if there was DAMAGE!
In this case putting back dirt/dust would not cause DAMAGE
Specials- sometimes they try hard but do not always get their facts right.
This forum is to help and give advice
Thats what I have done on this
Here endeth my post on this one
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Russ
you've tickled me there mate.
you've basically agreed with everything that I've said but still put a argumentative point to it.
as for specials not being police officers?
what are they then?
window cleaners?
I agree some specials are wannabe fulltime bobbies.
I'm certainly not. I've been frontline policing like I said for nigh on 5 years on a regular basis and have heard many "specials arent police officers" jibes and enjoy them. especially when they're said as im putting the cuffs on or shutting the cell door. I love policing but my window cleaning business comes first.
Dean.
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so true ewan.
Dean
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only had this happen once so far and maybe about to do again soon, i have a pump sprayer full of muddy water and just give glass a good splatter, no damage just returning to pre clean condition. Oh and does give a lot of satisfaction.
simbo
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just invoice them, state that payment must be made within 30 days or a 10% surcharge will apply for each and every month that goes by unpaid.
totally unenforceable unless we had a contract with them ( 99% of my customers have no signed contract with me)
if they dont pay then leave well alone....spend your time on getting other work 8)
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Lady isn't paying (£18). Phoned and left messages, sent texts...no response. Called round...never in.
I'm not gonna waste any more time with it but fully intend to return the dirt to her (front) windows the next time I'm passing. Nothing silly like eggs, oil or paint etc...just dip applicator into bucket, apply to windows and off I go.
Although I'm going to do it does anybody know what the law is on this?
Did it!
Don't think I was spotted but I'm sure Horatio Caine from CSI Miami would have no trouble tracking my car down given the amount of rubber I left behind as I roared away ;D Oh what jolly jape ;D ;D
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Nice one.
I hope you didnt make the mistake of ringing her last night to get rear access.
;D ;D ;D
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Lady isn't paying (£18). Phoned and left messages, sent texts...no response. Called round...never in.
I'm not gonna waste any more time with it but fully intend to return the dirt to her (front) windows the next time I'm passing. Nothing silly like eggs, oil or paint etc...just dip applicator into bucket, apply to windows and off I go.
Although I'm going to do it does anybody know what the law is on this?
Did it!
Don't think I was spotted but I'm sure Horatio Caine from CSI Miami would have no trouble tracking my car down given the amount of rubber I left behind as I roared away ;D Oh what jolly jape ;D ;D
Good on you!!!
Whats your address?
Ill give you a lift in to face your criminal damage charge :o :o :o ;D ;D ;D ;) ;) ;)
Dean