Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: SteveAllan on February 22, 2009, 10:05:00 pm
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Got a chance of a couple of houses but means using a ladder to drag hose over the garages. What do you guys do in these circumstances - clamber over or just offer the fronts, i dont what to lose the chance of doing them as i am still round building.
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Cant you carry equipment through the house?
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With wpf i use the omnipole 5 speed 80 PSI backpack it's just great
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pack-pack & pole, as said!
A tip for you though...
Use shoe covers times three!
Two for your feet
One for the brush head 8) 8)
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no access through the house :(
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Personally I would just offer to do the fronts. Unless your charging top dollar it's not worth the aggro is it?
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building a round is one thing, but breaking your neck is another
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Ring the night before for them to unlock garage and once youve built up a trust ask if they would mind giving you a spair key.
Chris
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Got a chance of a couple of houses but means using a ladder to drag hose over the garages. What do you guys do in these circumstances - clamber over or just offer the fronts, i dont what to lose the chance of doing them as i am still round building.
stop being a big girl and use the ladder it wont bite ;D ;D
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If I was building a round from start and I had no choice then I would just offer to clean the fronts and make easy money. Start making life awkward for yourself climbing up and over garages and the easy money is gone so it's not worth the job.
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there was a guy on here some time ago who spent 2 days in hospital and did his neck and back in pretty bad its not worth it dont let other people on here persuade you to take risks with your health and business
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I wouldn`t do it get another 1 to replace it.
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there was a guy on here some time ago who spent 2 days in hospital and did his neck and back in pretty bad its not worth it dont let other people on here persuade you to take risks with your health and business
we are talking about climbing over a six foot wall with a ladder not base jumping of a mountain, i know a bloke who was seriously injured in a car accident but it doesnt make me go on a campaign to stop people driving.
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OK - taking a hose and pole over a garage is just stupid. You have to carry these things and climb a ladder and then lift the ladder over as well - what you gonna do - hold them in your teeth? You lose all credibility telling a custy you use a pole for safety reasons only to climb over their garage.
If I ever climbed over a garage to do the back I would do it traditionally. But those days are well over for me!
This is how I do these:-
I offer fronts only every month and that when I catch them in to let me through the garage/house I do the back. It is perfectly easy to go through the house.
Sound confident and tell them you do it for many customers.
I tell them that if I miss the back too many times then they can phone me and I will try to meet them at an appointed time.
Make sure you charge enough for doing the rear as getting through the house carefully will take time.
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I offer fronts only every month and that when I catch them in to let me through the garage/house I do the back. It is perfectly easy to go through the house.
Sound confident and tell them you do it for many customers.
I tell them that if I miss the back too many times then they can phone me and I will try to meet them at an appointed time.
This is the only way to do these sort of houses. All this clambering over garages malarky is just aggravation.
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OK - taking a hose and pole over a garage is just stupid. You have to carry these things and climb a ladder and then lift the ladder over as well - what you gonna do - hold them in your teeth? You lose all credibility telling a custy you use a pole for safety reasons only to climb over their garage.
If I ever climbed over a garage to do the back I would do it traditionally. But those days are well over for me!
This is how I do these:-
I offer fronts only every month and that when I catch them in to let me through the garage/house I do the back. It is perfectly easy to go through the house.
Sound confident and tell them you do it for many customers.
I tell them that if I miss the back too many times then they can phone me and I will try to meet them at an appointed time.
Make sure you charge enough for doing the rear as getting through the house carefully will take time.
i think if you refused to do backs round here they would find a window cleaner that did then the rest of your round could soon be lost to the newby
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OK - taking a hose and pole over a garage is just stupid. You have to carry these things and climb a ladder and then lift the ladder over as well - what you gonna do - hold them in your teeth? You lose all credibility telling a custy you use a pole for safety reasons only to climb over their garage.
If I ever climbed over a garage to do the back I would do it traditionally. But those days are well over for me!
This is how I do these:-
I offer fronts only every month and that when I catch them in to let me through the garage/house I do the back. It is perfectly easy to go through the house.
Sound confident and tell them you do it for many customers.
I tell them that if I miss the back too many times then they can phone me and I will try to meet them at an appointed time.
Make sure you charge enough for doing the rear as getting through the house carefully will take time.
i think if you refused to do backs round here they would find a window cleaner that did then the rest of your round could soon be lost to the newby
same round here, ;D ;D
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You should def. phone them the night before or the morning you are going and get them to leave the garage door open. Most people are ok with that.
If you damage the garage roof you could have problems...
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No, Trevor and Stan - I'm not refusing to do the backs, I offer to do the backs when they are in by running my hose through their garage or house. I do this for dozens of custies. Are you really advocating (especially you Trevor with your website talking about IPAF and risk assessments) laddering up and taking wfp over a garage using those ladders? Would you expect your employees to do this?
If that was me working for you and you told me it was a condition of my employment that I had to do that you'd have an industrial tribunal suit on your hands for unfair dismissal.
My custy's understand the need for a sensible attitude to risk and don't want an injury suit against them if a w/c should fall.
Frankly if you feel you want to take these risks then that's your neck on the line but please don't encourage others to do the same.
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No, Trevor and Stan - I'm not refusing to do the backs, I offer to do the backs when they are in by running my hose through their garage or house. I do this for dozens of custies. Are you really advocating (especially you Trevor with your website talking about IPAF and risk assessments) laddering up and taking wfp over a garage using those ladders? Would you expect your employees to do this?
If that was me working for you and you told me it was a condition of my employment that I had to do that you'd have an industrial tribunal suit on your hands for unfair dismissal.
My custy's understand the need for a sensible attitude to risk and don't want an injury suit against them if a w/c should fall.
Frankly if you feel you want to take these risks then that's your neck on the line but please don't encourage others to do the same.
yes i would expect employees to do this they always work in twos so ladders are held whilst one climbs up then other hands them equipment to be lowered at other side, it is perfectly safe.
ladders are not dangerous if used correctly and men are trained to use them and i dont mean one of these poxy i day ladder courses that dont cover half the issues needed and often teach some bad practices, for instance loughborough university have done a book on ladder safety and recomend ladders should be footed by a man standing on bottom rung [these are meant to be clever people].
a lot of the little tricks the old window cleaners used to make ladder use safe have been forgotten and sneered at because they are so simple and dont need to buy some expensive gadget to work.
you mention trainining such as I.P.A.F etc and yes we do have them and in fairness they do give you a bit of knowledge on how to use equipment and avoid certain practices that only a nutter would try.but in my opinion these are just money making schemes that generate jobs and make firms that have the certificates appear superior to others.
you cannot beat training that takes place on the job by someone who has years of experience and these training courses are just short cuts to achieving a minimum standard of safety as the first option is very rarel y available to most.
well thats my grumpy old man rant over and i accept your view on what your stand is on using ladders but mine are different, we have used ladders since 1960 and in early days ladders 66ft when extended wher used without a lost time accident, Wfp is safer and we use them wherever possible but the ladder is not redundant and i am paid to clean windows and not miss them for some lame excuse.
as for running a dirty hose through someons house ;D ;D
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Thanks for your view Trevor. It does seem that your views hark back to the 1960's in more ways than one. Perhaps your old guys in the 1960's would have fondly remembered sending kids up chimneys in Victorian times ... after all how many of them really got lung diseases eh? ;D
As for running a dirty hose thru' custies houses that is ridiculous - all I do is get a damp towel and run the hose through it when I put it away. To run it through a house without dirtying the carpet is quite simple. I pull it off the reel in coils about 1 metre deep. I then lay it on the floor as I go and out the back of the property. Good quality microbore can be pinched in a patio/back door without losing flow if you are practiced at it.
When finished I simply pick up the hose as I go. No mess, no dirt. I happily run my hose through some of the poshest homes in the area with no problems whatsoever.
Tell me, what do you do when only one of you is working and no one is about to foot the ladder, like the majority of window cleaners? Take a chance?
And what about garage roofs of 1930's mock-tudor homes with brittle brosely tiles? Do you crunch your way over those or do you deign to ask the householder to let you through their property - if your ladders will make it through without taking that nice picture by Edvard Munch off the wall with the stiles? ;D
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Thanks for your view Trevor. It does seem that your views hark back to the 1960's in more ways than one. Perhaps your old guys in the 1960's would have fondly remembered sending kids up chimneys in Victorian times ... after all how many of them really got lung diseases eh? ;D
As for running a dirty hose thru' custies houses that is ridiculous - all I do is get a damp towel and run the hose through it when I put it away. To run it through a house without dirtying the carpet is quite simple. I pull it off the reel in coils about 1 metre deep. I then lay it on the floor as I go and out the back of the property. Good quality microbore can be pinched in a patio/back door without losing flow if you are practiced at it.
When finished I simply pick up the hose as I go. No mess, no dirt. I happily run my hose through some of the poshest homes in the area with no problems whatsoever.
Tell me, what do you do when only one of you is working and no one is about to foot the ladder, like the majority of window cleaners? Take a chance?
And what about garage roofs of 1930's mock-tudor homes with brittle brosely tiles? Do you crunch your way over those or do you deign to ask the householder to let you through their property - if your ladders will make it trough without taking that nice picture by Edvard Munch off the wall with the stiles? ;D
all jobs are weighed up individually and no i wouldnt carry equipment over brittle tiled roof but the original post was about climbing over rear yard walls, if you cleaned in an area where there are rows and rows of terraces and you was to make arrangements to go through each house are get each back gate left open and miss ones that whernt then you would struggle to make the round viable.
you come across as extremely anti ladder and maybe through your experience you feel that is justified, a thread last week talked about people suffering shoulder pains etc due to water fed pole in the future who knows what HSE may come up with regarding repetitive strain injury and no doubt their will be ones come forward saying it has caused them alsorts of injuries.
the argument being if something is used incorrectly it can cause injuries this is true in any career are we going to stop butchers using knives because one cut of his finger. ladders are not banned and should always be used with caution if you decide not to use them that is your choice but do not slag me of as being not concerned with health and safety because i do use them on occasions.
as for your silly comment about sending children up chimneys and them getting lung disease you being such a concerned person you should maybe stop driving vehicles around which pump toxic chenmicals into the air causing lung problems like astma etc.
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Malc his men work in 2s so there would be one at each end of the ladder as he carried it through ;D
i have carried a ladder through a house before now when all the doors have lined up ;D ;D
Why would you guys do that when you can use your dexterity to "safely" go over a garage? ;D
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Got a chance of a couple of houses but means using a ladder to drag hose over the garages. What do you guys do in these circumstances - clamber over or just offer the fronts, i dont what to lose the chance of doing them as i am still round building.
No, Trevor the first post was not about climbing over yard walls - see above to remind you of what the first post was actually about ... ::)
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Got a chance of a couple of houses but means using a ladder to drag hose over the garages. What do you guys do in these circumstances - clamber over or just offer the fronts, i dont what to lose the chance of doing them as i am still round building.
No, Trevor the first post was not about climbing over yard walls - see above to remind you of what the first post was actually about ... ::)
your quite right malc what must it be like never to be wrong ;D ;D ;D
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Walls or Garages whatever is in the way. I didnt think i would be invoking such a lengthy debate - Peace ;)
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SOME GOOD POST TREVOR I AGREE I THINK ITS MORE CANT BE BOTHERED TO CLEAN THE BACK BECAUSE OF THE AGGRO RATHER THAN SAFETY ISSUES. BUT PERHAPS THATS WHY I PICK UP OTHER PEOPLES WORK BECAUSE THEY CANT BE BOTHERED TO DO THE WHOLE JOB. WHAT DID WE EVER DO BEFORE WFP ;D
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Trevor im interested in the little tricks if you dont mind expanding,im always open to new ideas
stan i know you use spikes when these are attached to ladder they run at same angle as ladder this makes them less effective before you attach them to ladder bend them in a vice so as when the ladder is set at the right angle the spikes run vertical this makes them much more effective.
not a new idea but something that has been forgotten about
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Walls or Garages whatever is in the way. I didnt think i would be invoking such a lengthy debate - Peace ;)
Walls and gates are more suitable for ladder use (due to their generally being six foot high or less your feet don't have to be more than about four feet off the ground. Garages are definitely not IME. (As you've probably guessed! ;D)
I'll never apologise for banging the drum against unnecessary ladder use, Steve - over my years in this business I've known of w/c's die, become brain-damaged, never walk again or simply lose months off of work due to a fall. I personally climbed ladders about 100 times a day, often to first floor and occasionally to second floor. Never fell but had a few near misses. Now I use a short ladder for only for gates and sometimes for high groundfloor window cleaning work.
Just because previous generations smoked forty a day without a care in the world or sprayed cars without PPE or simply drove without seatbelts doesn't mean that you or I need to.
You just talk to your customers about the issues and you come to an accommodation with them - if they want you to risk your neck just because some "numpty" will if you don't - well who wants custy's like that?
If you become skilled at wfp you will reach far more previously innaccessible windows and rooflights than you could hope to get to using ladders. You can do backs of terraces quite easily - I've got quite a few. You just have to be imaginative and you will offer a really good service to your custy's.
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[WHAT DID WE EVER DO BEFORE WFP ?]
Fall off of ladders.
;D
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You just talk to your customers about the issues and you come to an accommodation with them - if they want you to risk your neck just because some "numpty" will if you don't - well who wants custy's like that?
you cant help yourself can you why is someone a "numpty" if they use ladders, you have put your reasons for not using ladders now because others disagree you resort to name calling very mature malc
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Walls and gates are more suitable for ladder use (due to their generally being six foot high or less your feet don't have to be more than about four feet off the ground. Garages are definitely not IME. (As you've probably guessed! ;D)
look at the statistics most injuries from falls occur at heights below 6ft
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Trevor, you really need to read more carefully my friend. I said that if a custy wants you to risk your neck because some other numpty will then who wants them for a custy?
I call a person who risks their neck to reach a window unsafely a numpty - whatever method they use. But it's the attitude of the custy I'm calling into question.
And I take your point about falls from lower height being more frequent - possibly due to complacency - but they are by their very nature less likely to be as damaging as the ones from greater height.
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Walls or Garages whatever is in the way. I didnt think i would be invoking such a lengthy debate - Peace ;)
Walls and gates are more suitable for ladder use (due to their generally being six foot high or less your feet don't have to be more than about four feet off the ground. Garages are definitely not IME. (As you've probably guessed! ;D)
I'll never apologise for banging the drum against unnecessary ladder use, Steve - over my years in this business I've known of w/c's die, become brain-damaged, never walk again or simply lose months off of work due to a fall. I personally climbed ladders about 100 times a day, often to first floor and occasionally to second floor. Never fell but had a few near misses. Now I use a short ladder for only for gates and sometimes for high groundfloor window cleaning work.
Just because previous generations smoked forty a day without a care in the world or sprayed cars without PPE or simply drove without seatbelts doesn't mean that you or I need to.
You just talk to your customers about the issues and you come to an accommodation with them - if they want you to risk your neck just because some "numpty" will if you don't - well who wants custy's like that?
If you become skilled at wfp you will reach far more previously innaccessible windows and rooflights than you could hope to get to using ladders. You can do backs of terraces quite easily - I've got quite a few. You just have to be imaginative and you will offer a really good service to your custy's.
in the context of the paragraph it looks to me like your calling someone who uses a ladder a numpty and you are entitled to that opinion, i may be wrong and you didnt mean this but i think both sides of debate have been heard and i am not willing to get into a petty tit for tat argument on the forum good luck with your business malc i guess we will agree to disagree
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I've just read the whole of this thread...
Malc I don't think it looks like you were calling any - one particular a Numpty!
Your argument is sound! 8)
I agree there are those (and always will be) people who will take chances... No Sorry... Unnecessary chances, when working! ::)
As I read this thread I thought...
What if Jet-packs came to be the safest way of working at height?
Some would still choose to use ladders! ::)
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What if Jet-packs came to be the safest way of working at height?
Some would still choose to use ladders! ::)
id stick with ladders ,remember the space shuttle ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D
Well, what about the "Glider board" used in back to the future? 8) 8) 8)
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What if Jet-packs came to be the safest way of working at height?
Some would still choose to use ladders! ::)
id stick with ladders ,remember the space shuttle ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D
Well, what about the "Glider board" used in back to the future? 8) 8) 8)
put me down for one ;D ;D
thats just unsafe stan , you will need one for each foot and a skyhook too just incase they fail.
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What if Jet-packs came to be the safest way of working at height?
Some would still choose to use ladders! ::)
id stick with ladders ,remember the space shuttle ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D
Well, what about the "Glider board" used in back to the future? 8) 8) 8)
put me down for one ;D ;D
thats just unsafe stan , you will need one for each foot and a skyhook too just incase they fail.
Them sky hooks are meant to be very good, but very hard to find ;D
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What if Jet-packs came to be the safest way of working at height?
Some would still choose to use ladders! ::)
id stick with ladders ,remember the space shuttle ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D
Well, what about the "Glider board" used in back to the future? 8) 8) 8)
put me down for one ;D ;D
thats just unsafe stan , you will need one for each foot and a skyhook too just incase they fail.
Them sky hooks are meant to be very good, but very hard to find ;D
While you're there... what about the next time you're at the mechanic's ask for a...
"L-O-N-G WEIGHT" (long wait, found that one out with the REME) ;D ::)