Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Darren O on February 18, 2009, 11:52:19 am
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Got a chinese restraunt to do tomorow its got a bit of blacktop on it whats the best prespray to use ive got Chemspec Enzall,Blitz and was going to buy some Prochem Powerburst to just wanted to no whats the best out the three.Never had great results on blacktop i dont think the prespray was hot enough when ive done them before.cheers Darren.
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No experience of the other 2 but used powerburst on restaurant blacktop and it worked for me, make sure it is hot with alot of agitation, I found it easier cleaning in small sections before it has a chance to dry out, another quick misting before wanding if it does dry too much.
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Darren
Try a rotary first on the areas to get rid and break down the black top :)
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Clinton
Is that a rotary with a brush on or straight to a pad?
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Joe
Prob just use a pad as its the main traffic area and might be a little warn under the grease then maybe the soft brush after :)
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My choice would be Powerbusrt pre-spray hot, agitate with rotary machine or sebo duo if you have one, 10 mins dwell then rinse. Blitz will do the job in the same way, it is a good product but imo Powerburst is better.
Mark
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what sort of carpet it is?
derek
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Its a wool carpet the taffic lanes are quite bad and sticky and theres black top were the bar is iam going to use Blitz as a prespray then use rotary with brush on it then rinse with F90 but i stll want to buy some Powerburst heard good things about it.
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How about this for a restaurant clean
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoIGA5AYP2s
This machine runs on a portable or TM but I suspect the more powerful the porty the better ie in air/vac and psi
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Its a wool carpet the taffic lanes are quite bad and sticky and theres black top were the bar is iam going to use Blitz as a prespray then use rotary with brush on it then rinse with F90 but i stll want to buy some Powerburst heard good things about it.
Dont forget to do a bleed test prior to cleaning, you may need to use an acidic rinse.
Mark
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If its black topped I dont think you have to go the acid rinse route, they just want it clean. Go in all guns blazing, its not the time to worry about wool and Ph factors. That black top is doing more harm to the carpet than you ever could, using solutions that might be otherwise classed as not good for wool, just get it off!
Dave.
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Before your hit it with bucket loads of water and high ph solutions, check its not a BW as Chinese/Indian carpets tend to be on the cheap side.
Vacuum,
Pre-spray, what ever suits (M-Power very good on Black Top)
Roto with brush block (pad won't touch it) on black top,
Clear water rinse off.
Repeat
(except vacuum)
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En zall always for me , dont worry about ph it is not going to bother a restraunt carpet, as Dave said all guns blazing.
m.power ;D ;D yor having a laugh arnt you Hilton ;)
Geoff
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it can't be a BW if its wool, i'd still be concerned if its a woven carpet as these can shrink if the backing gets wet, plus a high PH can cause the jute backing to bleed, hence the acid rince. i'd still use a high ph but keep psi to around 300, some agitation on the black top should loosen it. this is how i'd go about it but it
could be the wrong way though.
derek
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Hi Guys
This is where enzyme products come into their own with all those protein bonds mixed with fat.
Make you you extract well and give it a good half an hour dwell.
Cheers
Doug
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Powerburst for me.
If it is wool then I wouldn't be too worried about ph etc for the reasons above. Ditto shrinkage. However as somebody said they can very often be BWs.
Hence the need for proper survey.
By the way Darren (and this is supposed to be a funny comment not a get-at-you) what is a Rest-a-RUNT?
Sounds like a cc trying to use a bad Chinese accent. ;D
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Just noticed my spelling was in a hurry this morning not to bothered with shrinkage or colour run ive done a lot of restraunts"is that how you spell it"never had a problem its only the blacktop that i struggle with done another chinese before christmass and couldnt get all the blacktop of and i used Enzall but the water was only warm at best ive checked with the owner today and he said there would be plenty of hot water also its just been bought over and dosent open till saturday so i can try a few things on it to i get it right.
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We have cleaned shed loads of these restaurants and used M-Power on a good many , no problem so long as you know how to use it and they clean up fine.
I'll invite Geoff along on the next one to see how its done properly ;D using a product like m-power or nemesis, without the need for hot water as in a lot of these restaurants as we all know hot water runs out very quickly.Hence the need for a plan B like the products mentioned above.
I know it cant be a BW IF its wool, but I would carry out the necessary to make sure.I am sure as Darren says hes cleaned plenty that he knows the difference.
By the way, if its wool why wouldn' t you be worried about ph or shrinkage ?
seems like a recipe (excuse the pun) for disaster.
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I have used m Power mixed at 80 to 1 and got exellent results with it through my chemstractor and brush certainly as good as enzall and I have used a lot of both products
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Ive actually shrunk a BW before it was about 4 years ago when i first started it was nothing dramatic like coming of the grippers and shrinking before my eyes got a phone call the next day the customer said the carpet has came away from one side of the room.Went back with a carpet fitter and stretched it back carpet fitter said it wasnt fitted right in the first place but i always keep an eye out for them now.
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I would love to take you up on your invite Hilton, shame your so far away and no matter what you say regarding m/s which basicly what m power is and the use on trashed black top carpets , you will not achieve the same results as a high ph enzime cleaner with hot, yes hot water. physics alone tell you hot cleans better than cold, fact .
if your statment is true, then why the hell are we using a multitude of chems, spending good money on machines that produce heat ? I have and still do use colloid cleaners in some instances, but to be honest I do like to give the custy the best results possible and m power with cold water doesnt do it for me, " I must be doing some thing wrong " could you enlighten me as to your pie.
regarding the use of high ph on wool and shrinkage, never shrunk a wool carpet yet " doesnt mean to say I wont get complacent" and worried about ph , come on were talking about a restraunt carpet that is likely to need every thing under thye sun, you really think the owner is going to be bothered? No.
You are not going to do any more harm than whats already been thrown on the carpet.
geoff
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Darren
I've got some Powerburst in my van. If you want to try it out give me a phone tomorrow morning.
Bob
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Thanks for the offer Bob but i think i wll try the Blitz i got some free when i bought my Raptor so i will give it a try cheers anyway.
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I would love to take you up on your invite Hilton, shame your so far away and no matter what you say regarding m/s which basicly what m power is and the use on trashed black top carpets , you will not achieve the same results as a high ph enzime cleaner with hot, yes hot water. physics alone tell you hot cleans better than cold, fact .
if your statment is true, then why the hell are we using a multitude of chems, spending good money on machines that produce heat ? I have and still do use colloid cleaners in some instances, but to be honest I do like to give the custy the best results possible and m power with cold water doesnt do it for me, " I must be doing some thing wrong " could you enlighten me as to your pie.
regarding the use of high ph on wool and shrinkage, never shrunk a wool carpet yet " doesnt mean to say I wont get complacent" and worried about ph , come on were talking about a restraunt carpet that is likely to need every thing under thye sun, you really think the owner is going to be bothered? No.
You are not going to do any more harm than whats already been thrown on the carpet.
geoff
If your using M Power with cold water it only works if you rinse it with a scorpion. ;D ;D
Mark
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Now thats were I was going wrong mark ;)
Geoff
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Physics doesn't say anything of the sort, back to school for you me laddie,
Like Stuart we have achieved results akin to anything you suggest using a colloidal cleaner with warm water, like I said experience will teach you that you need a plan B in this game.
We have all manner of heaters, not so many solution nowdays as they are not needed but can clean black top next to you using full power flooding the carpet with boiling water and massive ph and achieve the same results if not better.
By the way read your paragraph 2 and then 3 and see if you can spot the contradiction. ;D
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Hilton,
What machine do you have?
Mark
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All guns blazing ;)
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Its common sense really, Greasy restaurant carpet, which is best Hot or cold water?
I will just ask my 8 year old son!
He says Hot would be better. ;D ;D
Mark
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Mark :)
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Clinten if your reffering to " giving the best results possible " and do you think the owner will be bothered "
Not a contridiction at all, I, giving the best results possible , albeit not how you would treat a household wool carpet, circumstances differnent,
and please let us know your cleaning pie when your using cold water and m power.
geoff
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Still no answer,
Why would those of you that advocate it, have no problem with a wool carpet being cleaned at high ph or be concerned about shrinkage, come on enlighten me I am sure new cleaners on here will need to know this so it will be educational to all.
Incidentally I have shrunk a wool carpet, Wilton broadloom seems split after cleaning at the Temple in London, so I need to know.
Cleaning pie ? come on Geoff you can do better than that surely.
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Hilton I'll answer you.
if you are concerned about wool shrinking then you are worry about the wrong thing, I'd be more worried about not know knowing what you are doing, because that's real the cause of wool shrinking.
as for high PH and wool, not recommended on Mrs Bouquets lightly soiled lounge carpet, but when it comes to heavily soiled restaurant carpets we leave carpet cleaning and go into the realms of carpet restoration if this can be done with low PH then great, but often the condition of the carpet warrants something stronger
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Hilton:
I have mpower and have tried it on blacktop. I presprayed copious amounts, agitated, let dwell for 15 mins, tried to extract it........... then reverted to good old blitz!!
Now I've read on numerous ocassions the comment "If used properly" but no one seems able to enlighten me on how to actually "Use it properly".
I have done exactly what Solutions have told me to do on blacktop and guess what...... it's poop.
perhaps, finally Hilton you are the saviour and will enlighten me on how to actually use this product properly.
Go on tell me step by step how you get black top off with mpower.
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Add some citra boost to your powerburst ;)
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Hi Guys
Don't want to get involved in the hot vs cold debate because scientifically there isn't one ;)
I do think however the black top thing needs looking at.
A pub black top is largely sugar and dirt.
A restaurant black top is food based , hence the need to use either high pH or enzyme to break down the protein bonds.
Cheers
Doug
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Thank you Mike for your answer,
If a carpet is such poor condition as described with copius amounts of black top or soil saturation then almost certainly apart from the soiling from grease and fats and foot fall, it would have been cleaned previously using a hgh ph which has left oodles of residue in the carpet attracting further soiling resulting in the same problem again,
Your right this is now a restoration job but has Mr Owner been told this or is just another job on a bog standard restaurant carpet who's manager not bothered about the results so who cares about standards.
Go in with this attitude and I can assure you you may get away with it a few times but sooner or later that carpet will shrink or the colours will bleed and now you own it.It may not be down to you not knowing what you are doing but the previous cleaners.Thats why I would be worried about shrinkage and colour bleed using the methods described above.
Contract Wilton or Axminster a very very good carpets that will take a beating and a good many sub standard cleans but eventually with the ph raised to such a level that you have now reached the tipping point eventually somthing will give and it might be the time you have taken on the job and you will end up paying for all previous cleans that have been carried out on it.
By all means Blitz it, that Axminster will look lovely in your lounge ;D
willo if it didn't work for you fine, there are lots of solutions that we have used that I either don't rate or just can't get on with. Your description of it was very succint.
There is no need to use high enzyme and high ph on black top whether be sugar based or protien based as I have already mentioned we can and do clean without the need. You just might prefer to because thats what you been told and are used to.
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WHAT A LOAD OF BULL S**T :-* :-*
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Hilton:
You havent answered my question. If you believe mpower to be so good on blacktop please please please tell me how to use this product properly on blacktop.
Surely if you have used the product on bt and had success then surely if we all used it in that way then we would have equal success.
I AM JUST CURIOUS TO KNOW WHY YOU ARE GETTING RESULTS ON BT USING MPOWER AND OTHERS ARENT. Your method must be correct so please enlighten me. Please :)
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Folks
I understand from a previous post that Martin_606 from Brighton has tackled black-top staining with his VLM system. Perhaps if Martin comes on-line he could comment on a safe and effective solution ?
Regards
Pete (JS2)
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Darren
No problem, if you want to try it before you buy it let me know.How did you get on with the Blitz ?
Bob
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Got it done today it went well the Blitz done the job but it took longer than expected and that was with 2 of us we used realy hot water with the Blitz then used the rotary with carpet brush and managed to get the Raptor up to 300psi and blasted it even my mate said that was the worst one we have ever done the owner was a moaning c-nt but was happy with the result in the end and paid in cash.
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Darren
Did you get any picies before and after ???
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When using enzymes make sure the water you mix it up with is not boiling hot, as this will kill the enzymes.
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Clinton i would of took pictures but ive not got a clue how to upload them to a computer thats the reason ive not joined truckmounters cant get a photo on it tried doing it with my mobile but says something like pictures to big.Derek the water was hot but not boiling didnt no that about killing enzymes if water is to hot.
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Darren
No probs mate then :)
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Well done Darren you got it done in spite of us all,
Next time take mark along with you he is fountain of knowledge, I bet posters are waiting with baited breath for his next words of wisdom on all manner subjects as he types away with fury from his spare bedroom.
So far his contribution on this thread has been,
No, er , what, ask me son, bulls**t.
Not surprisingly hardly anyone actually read what Information I had posted but just followed the sheep mentality which is so prevelent on here by jumping on a subject with out really understanding what is being said,
The point I was trying to make is if no hot water is available you must have a plan B a back up, to finish the job or even be in a position to take the job on in first place. This is where M-Power, Nemesis and like come into play which will clean black top despite what the scientists say on here.
Pointless trying to use a product that requires hot water to be effective if none is available.
My next point was to be careful when using hot water and high ph on a Wilton or Axminster because of previous high ph high temp cleans for reasons that seem obvious to me but several of you struggled with it.Some even thought shrinkage wasn't even a problem to concern ourselves about ::)
Many of you seem to have an irrational, pathological aversion to some solutions if they are mentioned on here, outside of all reason, if an alternative is available that may get you through a difficult situation or even win a job you might not otherwise had a chance with, seems plain to me you have to have an alternative available.
This is where Mark comes in BULLS**T just ask my son. er I think ,what, back me up here boys. :-*
Will
as for procedure using M-power ( I thought I had already mentioned it early in the thread:)
Vacuum
Apply M-power at 50:1
Using a stiff brush block on your rotary work in,
Extract off re -apply m-power and leave dwell for 15 mins
Get on with rest of clean-prep etc.
Go back to black top roto again, extract off
Repeat procedure as above
Until complete,
No need to soak the carpets, no need for extremes of heat or ph.
Procedure would probably be quicker with heat but not always,
each job on its own merits.
Now await the screaming and awailing from the anti everything brigade as for me couldn't give a flying toss, I follow my own mind not the bleeters a good few of you could well do with doing the same.
I might have to consider my position on here on offering up any advice in the future if your minds are to remain so closed , you then all go back to rubbing each others ego's with out any interlopers. ;D
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I have used M Power yes, i have also used nemesis and Pureclean.
I have been cleaning carpets 11 years so i have also used just about all the detergents as well.
As far as microsplitters go Pureclean is the best followed by Nemesis imo.
The original question here was what is the best product for removing BT from a restaurant carpet, the answer by most on the forum was to hit it with high PH cleaning products, agitation then extract using heat.
Then we get someone obviously brain washed by solutions uk stating that M Power pre-spray is the best product.
Whay planet are you on Hilton, unbelievable :-* :-*
Mark
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Sorry to say it - but same old story.
Mention Solutions UK, M-Power, Scorpion machine and its "lets bash him" time - no matter who it is.
"brain washed by Solutions" - what a rubbish statement is, heard it so many times its boring.
and I have said this before - it shows complete lack of respect for fellow carpet cleaners, and thats not good.
I havnt got a clue who Hilton is, but he does sound pretty genuine. I do know who Stuart Clarke is, never met him but we chat on the phone every so often - very experianced carpet cleaner who knows what he is talking about.
Why cant "we" just accept that if someone like Stuart or Hilton or whoever says they get good results with M-Power then it must be correct. They would not just keeping buying it if it was "sea water" or "coloured tap water" as some have termed it. It must work for them.
and whats the difference between Nemesis Super and M-Power, both colloids and both do a similar job. There may well be differences in their make up but they are pretty similar. Ask John Kelly how much of it he sells - he wouldnt be stocking it if it didnt sell.
As for Solutions Uk - they provide a really good service to their customers and a back up to match. (but so do some others, John Kelly and Cleansmart spring to mind where I have had good service).
They are an innovative company, pushing cleaning technology forward - if you close your minds you will miss out on some really good products.
The Scorpion has to be at the top when you talk of portables. Ken Wainright has posted on Clean Talk a photo of his Scorpion, with 2" hose, mounted in his van 125' away from the job and he says it is still pulling a bit better than a 2 vac portable with 1.5" hose at 25'. Show disrepesct to that man and you are well out of order.
M-Power - best thing since sliced bread? - I doubt it, but when you hear experianced guys, and I mean experianced guys, getting results which are beyond comprehension of many, then why question it. Just cause "you" cant cut the mustard does not mean to say others cant either. Sometimes I question whether "you" want to.
You know, one day there will be a replacement for M-Power, and what will the knockers say "see, it wasnt all cracked up to be what they said", when the truth of the matter is that technology is moving forward all the time, it is not standing still. But if you not aware of it you will be left behind.
Now I am not saying stuff like Pure Clean is no good (took me some time to get used to it though) nor the likes of Powerburst (although I cannot enthuse over it to the same height as others), but obviously others are trying different products and finding success - why slam them at every opportunity.
Why not listen, if you dont want to go down that road - fine, but at least be open minded enough to listen. We have 2 ears and 1 mouth - perhaps it means we should listen twice as much as what we speak - difficult for some, but try it.
Now I have had my two penneth (or was it five penneth) I am off for a cuppa.
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Well said Joe :)
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whats amazing about it Joe is no where in the thread have I said M-Power is the 'best solution'. We use all manner of diffirent solutions, as I said each job on its own merits. This lot see what there own agenda want them to see,
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Joe,
I dont post on Cleantalk, but i do look once a week to see if there are any new posts, The fact is no matter what the question is regarding best cleaning solutions / staining, M Power is always the answer given.
Obviously the owners of the forum are not going to push any other products than there own for obvious reasons, why would they?
Joe, please just answer this question, Is M Power the best solution in your opinion to deal with restaurant black top or not?
I would ask you the same question Jim but i know what the answer would be, i know where you stand with regard to Solutions UK.
Cheers Mark.
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Hi Guys
I have locked this as it's getting nasty and seems to have run it's useful course.
Cheers
Doug