Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Moderator David@stives on February 07, 2009, 08:33:33 pm
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I would like to let you all know the APWC is now closed for business.
I would like to thank all those who supported us in the past 3 years and a special thanks to our members.
The last of our existing memberships ran out in December, we stayed open to fulfil our obligations to our existing members and have refused any new members in the last 12 months.
The APWC was Formed to give an alternative to the FWC who at the time a lot of people thought wasn't doing enough to represent the commercial window cleaner and wfp,(remember the Newsnight fiasco) but now over the last 3 years the FWC have changed beyond recognition and it hasn't gone without notice by myself, the APWC and within the industry.
Because of this we decided we were just simply wasting our time, as what were trying to achieve is now already being done by the FWC and it would take us at least 10 years to catch them, as we simply dont have there manpower or resources.
This is one of the reasons we have decided to shut our doors, and the remaining committee members, Wayne Voller and myself are giving a public endorsement to the FWC.
I would urge anyone who wants to improve there business to have a look at what the FWC have to offer, believe me for what they have achieved has taken a lot of time and hard work with the interests of window cleaners at heart, especially with the NVQ's and the new IOSH course and I believe there is a lot more to come.
I have learnt a lot over the last few years, mainly that actions speak louder than words, also I have gained a lot of experience and have got to meet a a lot of people on the way, some good, some bad, some with big ego's, people on power trips, I wont dwell on them, but I think we all know who the good guys are.
I would Like to say a special thank you to Wayne Voller for standing shoulder to shoulder with me for the last 12 months, through thick and thin, while we honoured our commitments,
It has not been easy, if you knew how long it was to set up, well it will take just as long to shut it down. We still cant walk away for a few more months yet as we have to finalise everything with the relevant authorities.
So there you go, we are closed.
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Respect, for your commitment & hard work after reading this post. Think you've touched my soft spot Dave. ;)
Tony
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I dont think the FWC would of changed if it wasnt for the APWC. I know that the committee put there money where there mouths were. Well done its a shame it has had to close
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Dave, respect to you, for trying, if the fwc took note and acted on some of the things they were lacking then that can only be good for the members and they should be thanking you.
Ian
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Sorry to see it go. They had a cracking life insurance policy as well. Thanks for all the members hard work while it was in existance.
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Thanks for your kind comments guys.
Dave
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Dave, what happened to Andrew Mullen
Brett
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so what is the real advantages of the FWC now? from reading this site i thought it was an out of date federation? how have they moved on? if its worth joing i'd look into it. anyone got any verdicts??
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Are the FWC now rubbing there hands together and laughing in an eerrily spooky laugh?........or not...
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Chris
I dont think they are, the FWC and APWC have been on very good terms over the last 2 years and we both wanted the best for each other, I have received a lot of advice of Bryan and the gang and vica versa, I have offered them my twopenneth worth, secretely I think the took some of my advice. ;D
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I would like to endorse what David said in his post
We have both spent may hours on the phone
I have tried to help the APWC from day one
The FWC is the only trade body acting on behalf of our industry so lets get behind it to promote the proffesionalism of window cleaners
Bryan Dolby
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i have taken so much from the fwc in 5 years as a member i never have to ask about
things like methode statements or risk statements wfp or lots of other things
i have sat in on semenares so for me its worth what you put in you get a lot back
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The FWC still talk a lot of rubish when it comes to WFP cleaning and when asked a straightforward question can't give a straight answer.
Thats probably why they will do well with the political side of things.......
Very sorry to hear the APWC is closed.........
Regards
Mr H
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I was a member of the FWC but i found no benefit of my membership.
The "benefits" they seem to offer such as discount off supplies - you can get cheaper by shopping around.
Free legal advice - i can get from the FSB and more besides
Low insurance premiums - No i got cheaper by shopping around.
From what i can see they take a lot of money and are a money making organisation - they are not solely in it for the benefit of window cleaners - especially when you have that idiot saying wfp is rubbish and has no understanding of the WAHR... so who are they to represent window cleaners?
waste of money imo - purely just a membership badge to show you are more of a professional than someone who isn;t a member - sorry but that fools no one these days - as any idiot can pay to become a member, it doesn't represent how professional you are.
In a way the guild could be said of the same, but for such a cheap joining fee i thought i would "try" it and see how it benefits me.. only time will tell, if i continue with membership there, or believe it has no use to me like the FWC.
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Dave, that's a shame; though I bet you can't help feeling hurt at the poor level of support you gained from those like me.
I hope you gained something tangible from the experience.
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Tosh
I dont feel hurt one bit, in fact i am happy about the whole experience, I have gained enormously through rubbing shoulders with the great and mighty of the window cleaning world and wouldnt swap a moment of that experience.
We have not closed through lack of support but through a feeling of how can we give something different or even compete with the fed now they have got there house in order.
For those who think the FED dont do anything, just look at what they have achieved and what is in the pipeline.
Somebody mentioned insurance, admittedly not the cheapest but it is a comprehensive policy covering all situations. Theres an old saying in this world "you get what you pay for.
The things they have achieved lately.
1, IOSH certified course for window cleaners including wfp
2 Ladder training course
3 ladder video
4 monthly mag
5 they help set up the NVQ level 2 for window cleaners.
This is just the start of the list, we could never compete against that lot, thats why we have endorsed what the Fed are doing and i give them backing.
It is easy to sit on the fence and pre judge, but uless you have helped run such a thing you really havent got a clue of all the hard work involved behind the scenes.
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lol the phantam post thief, well i let Nat know anyway.
lol cheers Chris
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I deleted it, it was nothing to do with the post and since you both had sorted out your" i cant do this " "i will let him Know " Thanks" communication there was ne need for it to be left on this thread
Dave
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I was put off from joining the FMWC but exisisting members,they told me it was just belonging to the tufty club and wasn`t worth the money.A couple of them said that there customers had no idea of what is was about and that the old printed image gave a better impact at a glance.
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Dave, what happened to Andrew Mullen
Brett
i'll take that as a no comment then
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Brett
Dont know what happened to him , he resigned nearly 2 years ago and thats the last i heard from him
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Well done for trying so hard, Dave. I've been on various committees in the past, and I can confirm it's b****y hard work for very little appreciation - people are always ready to criticise, but rarely prepared to compliment and chip in with any sort of tangible help.
I remember there was loads of enthusiasm when you first started, but trying to maintain the momentum is a gargantuan task.
I'm sure no-one else could have exceeded your achievement.
Ian
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hear hear
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Chears guys
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Thanks for bringing this to my attention, I guess that time is great healer and if the FED has got is act together then that can only be a good thing but I do still have one question why do you feel you have to ridicule the Guild? If you don't think it's something that can benefit you then thats fair enough but that does not mean that it wont benefit others. The APWC tried to rival the FED but the guild hasn't set out to be another FED or APWC, it seems its only you that thinks that we are rivals we are not. Our aims are different and although this is the case there are is some common ground an example being to raise safety awareness in the industry which can only do good for the industry. OK yes the guild is quite new and there is still a lot of work to do to raise the profile but give us time and we will make every effort to increase awareness. The membership benefits are still being added to all the time. The Guild is something that can be a benefit to the industry and IMO could be viewed as to complement the FED as in we ultimately both have one common aim. To benefit our members. If is not for you then fair enough but please understand we give up our free time to run the Guild and that we do it for the benefit of Window Cleaners and the industry so it can be a bit disheartening to see you put us down for no reason.
Your efforts with the APWC are to be applauded, you did very well and should be proud I suppose the fact that you longer felt the need to continue meant that you had achieved what you set out to do even if it wasn't quite what the way you imagined.
Pete
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I dont ridicule the Guild, you make claims that it is something that it is not.
It is some of your members who compare it to the fed, not me.
If you want to be taken seriously there are a few things you have to change.
to use a quote , "we are better value than the fed" I never said that, you did.
I dont put you down, you do it yourself by claiming to be something you are not. If you think a guild certificate will impress a facilities manager, then you are completely misguided, if you are to use a certificate to impress someone, please make sure it has some substance behind it.
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if you are to use a certificate to impress someone, please make sure it has some substance behind it.
I have been a member of the fed since 2003, and I have got to admit it hasn't done diddly squat for me. I attended their health and safety course which was ok, but as for getting work because I was a member I'm afraid is a no. Memberhip benefits aren't great either.
When I mention I am a member, no one still hasn't heard of it, some even think it is quite funny. I won't be renewing my membership this year, I have joined the FSB. Most people have heared of these and their benefits far outweigh the FWC.
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Rob
If its doing nothing for you youre not using it the way it should be, have you got the logo on your stationary or on your van.
I take a folder to all my new quotes and it impresses the hell out of most businesses.
The FSB cert wont do nothing for you as well, it is nothing to do with the job. In my opinion It just shows your clients you are scared of a tax investigation so you are protecting yourself.
I am currently working on a £20k plus contract and the FED gave me a good hour on the phone guiding me through some complexities of the proccess.
Also last week I was given a lot of guidance by the Chairman on what I could and couldnt do on a ladder.
Like I have said in the past find any of the big guns websites and look at there badges, Coincidence that they have all got them, I think not, they all know they are essential.
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Have a look, see what they have all got in common, these guys are no fools
http://www.millardscleaning.co.uk/
http://www.jvprice.co.uk/accreditations.asp
http://www.allcleanservices.co.uk/
http://www.groveswindowcleaning.co.uk/gad.html
http://www.clearviewwindowcleaners.co.uk/
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Have a look, see what they have all got in common, these guys are no fools
http://www.millardscleaning.co.uk/
http://www.jvprice.co.uk/accreditations.asp
http://www.allcleanservices.co.uk/
http://www.groveswindowcleaning.co.uk/gad.html
http://www.clearviewwindowcleaners.co.uk/
Things they've all got in common?
Aha, websites! No no... they're all companies that've been in existance for many years? Millards says it's 90 years old and JV Price took of his from his father when he retired I seem to recall.
Is that it?
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Badges at the bottom of the page
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Badges at the bottom of the page
I know I know! I was just being my usual pedantic self.
It's blowing a gale outside, and I'm dithering about getting my fat bottom out to work; or not.
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Yes I have the badge on stationery etc. but if people haven't heared of them it doesn't matter.
Ok all the links above have the fed badge on their website as does mine. I have some large contracts NHS Hotel chains etc. the people I dealt with didn't know of and couldn't care that I was a member of the fed. I am pretty sure that the owners of these companies would be quite upset if it was claimed that they are as successful as they are because they are members of the fed.
I have just finished with safecontractor too for the same reasons.
The FSB I think has a bit more clout. OK its not window cleaning orientated, but there are many window cleaning companies as members, so will fight our corner if asked.
The tax investigation is a bonus as my accountant wants £100.00 + vat a year to cover this. that nearly pays for my subscription alone. Theres free banking which I know i can get without the FSB, but the coop bank seems to have less people complaining about it than the other free ones, which again is another saving £20.00 a month in my case. All this as well as help with risk assessments/method statements, 24 hr legal and up to date business news in general.
If it works for you great, I just can't see the benefit. I liked the badge on stationery etc. but I was paying just for that which was really more for vanity. As many people have said on here before - profits before vanity.
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Touching note on what Dave has been saying about the FWC changing, click on link below
http://www.cleaning43.com/latest-news/latest-news-article.php?latestNewsID=677
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The NHS questions on all tender documents ask a series of questions.
In those questions they ask what relevent Accreditations ie
Details of current Quality Assurance processes and procedures including standards adopted and any complaints procedure (with a copy of any relevant accreditation/certification)
Details of current Health & Safety processes and procedures, including COSHH and Manual Handling elements (and copy of any relevant accreditation/certification)
Confirmation that a programme of proposed window cleans and scheduled dates will be provided for each location in consultation with authorised officers, and details of contingency arrangements which can be implemented in the event of any emergency situation/s
Statement of monitoring procedures
Why do they ask for relevent accreditations, the fsb is just for your own personal piece of mind, if i presented it to a facilities manager they would just say "whats thais got to do with anything"
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David
A very good step forward for the Fed, I reckon i will be giving Andrew a ring in the next couple of days for some more advice
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may be people will think a bot more of the fed ??? they have been going for many years they have stayed the test of time.you tried and was not to be,
you go out of this with your heads high! I think the Fed is to pro like to be rubbing there hands with glee, just makes people think about how hard things can be, your support to them will not go a miss :)
just my thoughts well done anyway :)