Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: williamx on February 07, 2009, 10:02:53 am

Title: How much would you pay to rent a round
Post by: williamx on February 07, 2009, 10:02:53 am
Heres the deal.

I will supply the following

Work £50000 per year to start with, rising to £70000 within a year.
Van
Van Insurance and Road Tax
WFP System
Poles
Workwear
Public Liability Insurance
Training
Full Backup Support

You will have to pay the following
Rent for the round
Fuel
Vechicle repairs
Insuarnce excess in case of claim.
Your own Tax & NI

All the customers will belong to me including any that you pick-up (you will be allowed the 1st clean price, which is always double the monthly charge).

You have to sign a contract, to work for at least 18 months and you cannot or anyone you know approach any of my customers, even if they approach you for at least 3 years.

What would you pay for a deal loke this?
Title: Re: How much would you pay to rent a round
Post by: mikethechamois on February 07, 2009, 10:12:29 am
that is some claim william

you would need to leave enough income in the round to make it pay for the rentee

so if they were to earn 40k that would leave you with 30k

but the question is would 40k cover their wages plus pay all the running costs

you may have to settle for 20k
Title: Re: How much would you pay to rent a round
Post by: williamx on February 07, 2009, 10:21:20 am
The running costs would be very small, they would used around 150 litres of resin a year, diesel/petrol aroung £35 per week and vechicle repairs around £10 per week.
Title: Re: How much would you pay to rent a round
Post by: mikethechamois on February 07, 2009, 10:45:33 am
your  figures for running a vehicle are unrealistic, these are ball park but a lot nearer the mark

i assume your going to lease them a vehicle

running costs inc isurance ,tax ,servicing etc...............£600 a month

lease inc vat.................................................................£400 a month

annual..........................................................................£12000 pa
Title: Re: How much would you pay to rent a round
Post by: luther1 on February 07, 2009, 03:31:03 pm
Some mates of mine rent rounds and pay 20% of what they earn each week.
Title: Re: How much would you pay to rent a round
Post by: geefree on February 07, 2009, 03:39:43 pm
i would just rent the work.  :)
Title: Re: How much would you pay to rent a round
Post by: Rogue Trader on February 07, 2009, 03:44:10 pm
Unless all your work is priced at top TOP rates doing £50 - £70k per year of work for one man including days sick , bad weather , holidays , days off for maintenance then this is well over the top and unrealistic.
Title: Re: How much would you pay to rent a round
Post by: supernova77 on February 07, 2009, 03:55:22 pm
I currently "rent" some work out to someone.

I supply:

> £600 worth of work each week
> Van (only an old S reg Vauxhall Combo which costs me next to nothing to keep running)
> WFP equipment
> Stationary with my company details on
> Pure Water

They pay for the van insurance and fuel, and can use the van for personal use to.

All money comes to me and I take 35% of the earnings, and then pay them their 65% at the end of each month. Seems to be working out well at the moment.

Andy
Title: Re: How much would you pay to rent a round
Post by: williamx on February 07, 2009, 04:25:44 pm
your  figures for running a vehicle are unrealistic, these are ball park but a lot nearer the mark

i assume your going to lease them a vehicle

running costs inc isurance ,tax ,servicing etc...............£600 a month

lease inc vat.................................................................£400 a month

annual..........................................................................£12000 pa

The van will not be leased, I will buy one for about £5000 this will last 5 years minimum.

Van Insurance no more than £500 per year.

Public Liability Insurance £250 per year.

Workwear £100 per year.

Servicing is up to them but it should not be more than £1000 per year.

Even if I had to pay for the servicing, the total cost should be no more than £1850 per year.
Title: Re: How much would you pay to rent a round
Post by: williamx on February 07, 2009, 04:40:37 pm
Unless all your work is priced at top TOP rates doing £50 - £70k per year of work for one man including days sick , bad weather , holidays , days off for maintenance then this is well over the top and unrealistic.

At the moment all of my jobs are priced very well indeed, I can earn a minimum of £250 per day, so to achieve the £50000 target they need to work 4 days a week.

My commercial prices are even better than the domestic side, with the commercial work they can earn £350 per day which on a 4 day week equals £70000.

Title: Re: How much would you pay to rent a round
Post by: MSTAV on February 07, 2009, 07:41:17 pm
big up yourself.... 8)
Title: Re: How much would you pay to rent a round
Post by: williamx on February 07, 2009, 09:16:43 pm
big up yourself.... 8)

Why big up something thats fact 8)
Title: Re: How much would you pay to rent a round
Post by: trike on February 07, 2009, 10:25:55 pm
dont need van exc got own insurance will pay 2k amonth,how much work a month is there cash wise
Title: Re: How much would you pay to rent a round
Post by: windowwashers on February 07, 2009, 11:49:43 pm
Unless all your work is priced at top TOP rates doing £50 - £70k per year of work for one man including days sick , bad weather , holidays , days off for maintenance then this is well over the top and unrealistic.

At the moment all of my jobs are priced very well indeed, I can earn a minimum of £250 per day, so to achieve the £50000 target they need to work 4 days a week.

My commercial prices are even better than the domestic side, with the commercial work they can earn £350 per day which on a 4 day week equals £70000.


if you are anywhere near bedofrodshire/cambridgeshire, give me a call.

Ian
Title: Re: How much would you pay to rent a round
Post by: trike on February 15, 2009, 02:31:57 pm
still waiting for a reply
Title: Re: How much would you pay to rent a round
Post by: williamx on February 15, 2009, 03:50:23 pm
At the moment there is no round to rent out, it should be avaiable by June, with others avaiable every 4 months, thats if I decide to go down that route, I need more information from my accountant and solictitor, which I'm waiting on.

As for the cleaners having their own van, equipment or insurance, that will not be allowed because I want them to drive vans with my company logo on them.

They also have to sign a contract that prevents them from cleaning any of my customers in the future, if they leave my company.
Title: Re: How much would you pay to rent a round
Post by: bluez on February 16, 2009, 11:21:00 am
If you supply everything then it is likely that they will be considered employees as opposed to selfemployed
Title: Re: How much would you pay to rent a round
Post by: mikethechamois on February 16, 2009, 11:25:46 am
unless you franchise
Title: Re: How much would you pay to rent a round
Post by: williamx on February 16, 2009, 11:49:55 am
If you supply everything then it is likely that they will be considered employees as opposed to selfemployed

Private Hire Drivers work only for 1 company yet they are self employed.
Title: Re: How much would you pay to rent a round
Post by: mp3_foci on February 16, 2009, 12:22:29 pm
where would this work be based?
Title: Re: How much would you pay to rent a round
Post by: williamx on February 16, 2009, 12:44:13 pm
Birmingham and The West Midlands
Title: Re: How much would you pay to rent a round
Post by: mikethechamois on February 16, 2009, 12:44:36 pm
depends on wether they own the vehicle or not,

they can sub to the taxi firm for the switch or they can hire the vehicle and switch and supply labour ony

after about 6 months continious work they  are deemed to be an employee

there are all kinds of ways around this, providing your services as a consultant is one of them, regular change of employer is another

the sevice industry is the hardest to prove self employment in but wc is one of the easist if you have a round as you tick all the boxes for self employment....................... providing its your round, if its someone elses round you are employed by them to clean the windows for their customers using their equipment

so the way round it is

to franchise'

rent the work only

have them as self employed subbies  but thers a very fine line between subbies and employees, the subbies will have to tick the selfemployment boxes for their other work

a lot of people get away with subbing parts of their round and and supplying the van to do it but the subbie genarally supplies own tools , fuel etc and if he loses a customer its his loss , he wont still get paid for not doing them, so he carries the risk if work drops , so he still ticks some of the boxes

its when you cant tick any of the boxes you lose your self empoymet status and become an employee
Title: Re: How much would you pay to rent a round
Post by: mp3_foci on February 16, 2009, 01:19:53 pm
i may have a bit of interest, but theres a lot to think about from both parties and a lot more information needed.
feel free to email me so we can chat about it.
Title: Re: How much would you pay to rent a round
Post by: bluez on February 16, 2009, 03:43:51 pm
If you supply everything then it is likely that they will be considered employees as opposed to selfemployed

Private Hire Drivers work only for 1 company yet they are self employed.

Not entirely sure about the uk law on this but over here (ROI ) to be considered a contractor there can not be a master servant relationship, you must supply the tools and equipment of your trade and you would normally be expected to be available for work from other sources.

A franchise agreement tends to sell the equipment and vehicles in the normal set up which makes it a bit different.

Private hire drivers like chineese and pizza delivery drivers may operate like you say but that does not make them compliant with the law. If I worked for revenue it would take a serious effort to convince me that a guy who has his vehicle, tools, work and insurance supplied to him is anything other than an employee and that the structure was designed to avoid NI , holiday pay and tax.

Why dont you sell the equipment and vhicle to the operator for a nominal fee say £1 with final payment of £20,000.00 or return of goods and work. That way you will have a legal agreement that can be enforced through the courts if the operator steals your work and you are seen to have allready sold the bits necessary to make it a real contractor arangement. 

Dont know if that is legal but it sounds ok to me :-[.
 
Title: Re: How much would you pay to rent a round
Post by: williamx on February 16, 2009, 04:08:40 pm
I have spoken to my solicitor and she is checking the legal status of this and a few other things.

I also have a meeting with my accountant tommorrow, so I should hopefully have some of the answers that I need.

If everything goes to plan then I will start to advertise these positions on some of the other forums asap.