Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: windowcleaninginessex.co.uk on February 06, 2009, 07:05:08 pm

Title: Hourly charge...
Post by: windowcleaninginessex.co.uk on February 06, 2009, 07:05:08 pm: Just looked at some questions over earnings, prices seem to be quite different and some exaggerated in my eyes.
Surely we only want to make a good living and just a little profit when we can, not rip people off and give ourselves a bad image and name.
So maybe if you want to use this poll to put the matter to bed and prove we are not rip off merchants but decent folk.....
Title: Re: Hourly charge...
Post by: jaykie on February 06, 2009, 07:12:53 pm: dont think youll be getting many responses to this one ;)
Title: Re: Hourly charge...
Post by: paulscotney on February 06, 2009, 07:25:15 pm: No i'm not voting either. I do an honest days work for an honest days pay.
Title: Re: Hourly charge...
Post by: smearo on February 06, 2009, 07:49:37 pm: it does not let you put in £100 an hour lol...
Title: Re: Hourly charge...
Post by: jonisondell on February 06, 2009, 08:05:01 pm: der... that would be 30 or over
Title: Re: Hourly charge...
Post by: NWH on February 06, 2009, 08:32:39 pm: Not good threads these we all know what can be achieved your only going to encourage newbies to start up and create more competition,sad but true.
Title: Re: Hourly charge...
Post by: pjulk on February 06, 2009, 08:38:58 pm: As NWH said
But i just manage a living when i don't rain or snow
Title: Re: Hourly charge...
Post by: mikethechamois on February 06, 2009, 08:45:45 pm: wht concerns me is that the 0-10 has nearly the same number of votes as over 30

how do you run a legit business and make a decent living

this is not good for the industry
Title: Re: Hourly charge...
Post by: mikethechamois on February 06, 2009, 08:58:43 pm: ok stan..................ill gve you that one, and its not maybe.................it is a trade
Title: Re: Hourly charge...
Post by: Slash on February 06, 2009, 09:06:38 pm: Quote from: darrencharm on February 06, 2009, 07:05:08 pm
Just looked at some questions over earnings, prices seem to be quite different and some exaggerated in my eyes.
Surely we only want to make a good living and just a little profit when we can, not rip people off and give ourselves a bad image and name.
So maybe if you want to use this poll to put the matter to bed and prove we are not rip off merchants but decent folk.....
I earn a good living and at the same time not rip anybody off,I am concerned at some people and their hourly rate,how can people possibly run a buisness like that especially if they have overheads like myself! ??? ??? ???,do they use a ladder and bicycle with a chamois :o
Title: Re: Hourly charge...
Post by: Sir Squeaky on February 06, 2009, 09:16:23 pm: Some of you must leave spur-marks in the drive!

Where do you park your horse? ;D
Title: Re: Hourly charge...
Post by: paulscotney on February 06, 2009, 09:36:43 pm: If you tell someone ( a normal person with all their faculties intact) the price for the job and they agree that they want the job doing at that price, whatever that price is, how is that a rip off?

In my mind that is a completely fair transaction. Not that I do overprice, as I find that they are the first jobs to cancel.
Title: Re: Hourly charge...
Post by: seandyer2003 on February 06, 2009, 10:23:55 pm: I rarely do under £25 an hour, but that doesnt mean i earn £52000 a year (40 hours a week at 25 is 1000 x 52 weeks) Nowhere near it yet in fact....

So hourly rate means nothing!!

As this week illustrates if window cleaners earned just £10 an hour, when you have a week off you would struggle trying to catch up to pay bills every time it rains!!!
Title: Re: Hourly charge...
Post by: mikethechamois on February 06, 2009, 10:51:53 pm: thats profound ewen

so they believe their paying for a proffessional and getting..............less than proffesssional
Title: Re: Hourly charge...
Post by: Mr Sparkle on February 06, 2009, 11:58:20 pm: Rip them off we are here to make money ;D ;D
Title: Re: Hourly charge...
Post by: Handyman Window Cleaning Services on February 07, 2009, 01:27:42 am: i hit 20-25 and 30+ as i thing a cleaner should hit at least £20 per hour
Title: Re: Hourly charge...
Post by: luther1 on February 07, 2009, 08:18:46 am: If you charge someone £30 to clean their windows and take half an hour thats not a rip off.
How long would it take them to do it? They value their time and health more than saving a few quid.As for insurance,i've had three issues in 20 years and paid out of my own pocket because my excess is £250 and the damage wasn't that amount,so if i had no insurance,it wouldn't make me a cowboy. Its the pikeys who tarmac your drive or do UPVC cladding etc (masses of them doing it round here) that rip you off.
Title: Re: Hourly charge...
Post by: pingu on February 07, 2009, 08:37:19 am: It simple somthing is only worth the amount someone is prepared to pay for it...

Its an old and tired saying but is so true.

As for ripping people off...we offer a price for a service and if the custy say yes then what is the issue...by charging low prices who is being ripped off?

Cheers
Dave.
Title: Re: Hourly charge...
Post by: mikethechamois on February 07, 2009, 10:01:42 am: you are so right pingu
Title: Re: Hourly charge...
Post by: Slash on February 07, 2009, 10:10:03 am: LOL ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
When I give quotes some people say the last bloke only charged half that in which I like to reply ..............
"Where is he now then,I persume he's gone out of buisness OR came to terms he's under estimated the job" ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
8 out of 10 times they ring back but when they don't I am not missing anything! ;D
Title: Re: Hourly charge...
Post by: john tomkins on February 07, 2009, 12:38:07 pm: Quote from: seandyer2003 on February 06, 2009, 10:23:55 pm
As this week illustrates if window cleaners earned just £10 an hour, when you have a week off you would struggle trying to catch up to pay bills every time it rains!!!

The other side of the coin is that a person earning £10 ph works 6 hours a day and gets £60. Obviously he can pay his bills and is happy with that amount.
If he loses 3 days due to snow/rain/wind/illness whatever, he loses £180.
You say you do £25 an hour and work those same 6 hourly days and lose the same 3 days in that week and you'd be down £450.
The £10 per hour guy would be better off ;D
Title: Re: Hourly charge...
Post by: geefree on February 07, 2009, 12:56:44 pm: I just dont think its a good thing to advertise what anyone earns on any forum.

especially in this economic climate,

;) ;)
Title: Re: Hourly charge...
Post by: windowcleaninginessex.co.uk on February 07, 2009, 02:05:17 pm: Quote from: paulscotney on February 06, 2009, 09:36:43 pm
If you tell someone ( a normal person with all their faculties intact) the price for the job and they agree that they want the job doing at that price, whatever that price is, how is that a rip off?

In my mind that is a completely fair transaction. Not that I do overprice, as I find that they are the first jobs to cancel.

Example of ripping off in my eyes: A tv in one shop costs £650 in next shop costs £450, we would all say what a rip off that first shop is don't go there.

So why is difference to us window cleaners when one charges £10 per hour and what charges £30+ an hour when in the end we all do the same job..

I know hourly rate is in possible to do as we price by the job, Its just an estimate
Title: Re: Hourly charge...
Post by: jaykie on February 07, 2009, 02:18:56 pm: so is £30 too much or £10 too cheap, who is going to decide what it should be,
well that will be more as im my own boss, i give the price to the custy and they choose.

Chris
Title: Re: Hourly charge...
Post by: Justen Uff on February 07, 2009, 02:41:30 pm: Can't believe how many times this subject comes up on here.

It really proves one thing to me....What a bunch of amatuers must be on this forum trying to find out what they can get away with as a windowcleaner.

What are you worth?

That's the question to be asking yourself.

If your strength is small then don't carry heavy loads, if your words are worthless then don't give advice!

If you want to know what you're work is worth - just quote what you think you're worth, do the best job you think you can and charge what you think you should. If the clients have paid somewhere around what they think they should then they'll generally let you know.

It's something you get a general feel for. You can't gauge what you are worth by someone else on the internet.

Robbie Williams was 10 times better than Take That when he went solo, my how things change!

Your customers will soon let you know if you're worth it or not!

Enough, already!!
Title: Re: Hourly charge...
Post by: jaykie on February 07, 2009, 02:47:25 pm: This Question only ever seems to come up on CIU, the other forums im on never seem to get this question.
Title: Re: Hourly charge...
Post by: mikethechamois on February 07, 2009, 05:33:30 pm: ewan you are showig again that you understand business

some of the replies on this thread are worrying, not for me, if thats the state of my competition then im laughing all the way to the bank

some of you do really need to get a grip of how to run a successfull business

business link run some excellent courses on how to manage the financial side of your business..............including how to price your service in order to make enough profit to sustain and grow your business

i could easily put it all on here but i feel that those that really need the help will just stubbornly argue to the annoyance of those that already have it sussed

looking at the results of the survey those that ticked 30 + are not the problem,even those that bigged up their hourly take are not aproblem as it shows that their thinkings in the right place even if their customers are struggling with the concept of employing a professional wc

whats worrying is those that are charging less than £10 per hr

by the time you have paid all your running costs,insurance etc your earning peanuts,

What is going on in your world
Title: Re: Hourly charge...
Post by: jaykie on February 07, 2009, 06:04:52 pm: Put up a pole on who doesnt want a licence and a majority that put £10 a hour will probably select they dont want a licence. That or they dont want newbies to think its good pay.
Title: Re: Hourly charge...
Post by: Slash on February 07, 2009, 06:27:37 pm: I would gladly go for a lisence for WC's,would make us all more professional and would come across as a more ligit buisness.
To be honest I have quoted low for very small properties that I think would be reasonable and only charge say £5.00 and the person would say.."God,thats cheap" but they only have 2 -3 windows per flat on first floors,the higher I go the bit more I would add.
I would rather do a load of flats together than just one as I have had trouble with occupiers underneath the flat I am cleaning and is it really worth it cleaning just the one flat for £5.00 with 2-3 windows,getting ladders off vans or reeling in/out etc.I think not and thats why I try to prevent doing one,maybe 4-5 flats make it a little bit worth while.
As for WFP and trad the price is the same for me.
Title: Re: Hourly charge...
Post by: sparklebright on February 07, 2009, 08:04:42 pm: The main problem with this poll, is that it does not reflect how much someone earns.
Once you take into account your costs you are not earning the headline rate. It is this sort of thing that encourages newbies who work for X per hour to become windys and bring down the price.
Let's list some costs:
Accountancy min £250 a year (mine is £600)
Fuel min £1200 a year (for local work)
Vehicle costs min £1000 per year.

I'm sure there are many more costs I haven't listed. My running costs are more than £600 a month and doesn't include subbies.

So if you tell some poor sod I make £30 an hour when he works in an office for £10 it doesn't tel the whole truth, does it.

We have all lost work to some muppet who arrives and works for £120 an hour top line rate, who finds he is not making any money after costs.
Window cleaning is an ok job, which delivers a good wage but only if you do the work.
Title: Re: Hourly charge...
Post by: sparklebright on February 07, 2009, 08:07:13 pm: Sorry that should have said £10 an hour :)
Title: Re: Hourly charge...
Post by: groundhog on February 08, 2009, 08:49:22 am: I work at least twice as quick as most other window cleaners.... does this mean that I should charge half of what they do?... I think not!!!!
Title: Re: Hourly charge...
Post by: steve a on February 08, 2009, 08:55:26 am: Quote from: seandyer2003 on February 06, 2009, 10:23:55 pm
I rarely do under £25 an hour, but that doesnt mean i earn £52000 a year (40 hours a week at 25 is 1000 x 52 weeks) Nowhere near it yet in fact....

So hourly rate means nothing!!

As this week illustrates if window cleaners earned just £10 an hour, when you have a week off you would struggle trying to catch up to pay bills every time it rains!!!

Think you will find thats due to the loss factor usually 2 hours per day. You may go out to work for 8 hours say 8 till 4 but with travel and breaks (brews etc) you prob only work 6.
Bet turnover is more like 32k which is 32hrs at 25 per hour
Title: Re: Hourly charge...
Post by: mikethechamois on February 08, 2009, 09:47:53 am: thats right steve it does work out like that

when i started i had all my costs worked out , or so i thought

i ws making money but not what i thought i was going to

i now work out my costs on a 40 week year to take into account bad weather, days off, and holidays

6 hrs working day as that is what you actually end up working

its then down to how long each job will take you with travelling

since the year stared i have written off 4 weeks work and next week is not that promising but working things out ths way has allowed me to do that

so newbies take note of above and get your calculators out

work out your breakeven point per hr and once you know that figure you have a constant check on your earnings..............by the hour

thats why wcs wrk to an hourly figure rather than per job, you charge per job but convert it into an hourly figure for your own peice of mind

if anyone needs advice on working out their breakeven, its a simple exercise and i will advise

the old hands have sussed it years ago andd wont need any help
Title: Re: Hourly charge...
Post by: dai on February 08, 2009, 10:28:26 am: I guess that most of us have some work that pays £30 an hour, and a hell of a lot of other work that doesn't.
For me it's not so much what I earn per hour, it's how much I manage to save every week, that's the bottom line as far as I'm concerned.
My average after expenses is about half of the above figure, but I did take my family to Bali for a month last year.
Title: Re: Hourly charge...
Post by: Rob.Hall on February 08, 2009, 12:01:30 pm: When you take out the actual days lost through bad weather etc, you will find that it will be far less than what people say they earn an hour.
Title: Re: Hourly charge...
Post by: Davo on February 08, 2009, 02:55:04 pm: Its the same topic again, and again the question of "rip off" comes into the mix. If the customer is happy to pay the price for your service are they being ripped off? Someone, no matter what business it is,is always cheaper, so does that make any one dearer for the same service a rip off merchant.

If a man can get £15 for a job that most may only get £8 for, is he a rip off merchant or is he smart?

Maybe there should be a national tariff for cleaning that you MUST work to, there again some will earn more per hour on set cleaning rates because they work more quickly, so they will be ripping off customers because they arent taking long enough. Where does it end?

Maybe for the more socially conscious you could set up a cleaning cooperative and give all the profits back to your customers as a dividend.

Mark
Title: Re: Hourly charge...
Post by: ftp on February 08, 2009, 05:14:50 pm: Still not cleaning windows Davo?
You have a strange interest in earnings of windowcleaners why is that?
Title: Re: Hourly charge...
Post by: Davo on February 08, 2009, 07:18:26 pm: Quote from: ftp on February 08, 2009, 05:14:50 pm
Still not cleaning windows Davo?
You have a strange interest in earnings of windowcleaners why is that?

No i dont actually clean windows, i rent some work out and sub conservatory cleaning work. As to the question of a strange interest in earnings, what you earn or dont earn makes no difference to me, but ive been on the tools and seen men who undervalue their skills when they start to work for themselves.

Just because you might not pay a certain price for something doesnt mean your customers wont, everybody values the price of things differently.

Mark