Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Pj on January 24, 2009, 08:57:01 pm
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I'm in a hard water area.
I also am stuck with low mains pressure.
I use a 4040RO system.
Some say get a water softener yet when I spoke to a couple of suppliers they talked me out of it.
Any sensible advice?
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Pj
it can only help
jerry
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Pj
it can only help
jerry
why you dont need a softener for a ro man unit so why would you need one for a 4040
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Chris Cottrell
because i get more out of my resin
jerry
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ive got the kinetico 2020 and it reduces the tds reading by about 010 tds
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I use a softner, as soon as Ian (you know who) say my system he told me to get softner straight away which is now fitted, my tds after ro is 002
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i have a sofener, but what a ballache they are.
I would rather pay more in resin tbh, it take to much of my time refilling ect but it does take the tds down.
membranes are cheap enough, now it there is a softener that does everthing for you without all the hassle I would buy one. if not it is twin 4040's for me and twin di's and third on tap (swopped).
Ian
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This is a response I got from a leading expert in water treatment:-
"One can use an RO system which also functions the same way as MB resin; i.e. it removes both cations and Anions. If the cationic load is very high, we can supplement this system with a water softener prior to the RO. The softener is a Cation exchanger and removes only the Cations from the water, thus reducing the load on RO. This way it does optimize the performance of RO, but adds on two systems for operations; i.e. Water softener and RO.
Frankly when one can use only the MB, I don’t see any use of water softener followed by the RO. Some of the benefits of RO pertain to making the water potable etc are not relevant for window cleaning. "
In summary if your Cation load is high yes a water softener will have an impact. If it is low it is a waste of money. MB is a 60/40 mix so if cation load was high then your cation mix would be the first to be exhausted so makes sense, if low your anion resin would be first to exhaust so makes no sense to put a softener prior to RO as you are throwing money away.
Hope this makes sense.
Cheers
Doug
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i have a water softner if any one wants to make a offer my brodex one collecting dust in the shed
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What are Cations and Anions?
My understanding is that water softeners have little effect on the tds but lenghten the life of the RO membrane as calcium and magnesium deposit from hard water clogs them up more quickly.
When I have measured water before and after softener there has only been a difference of around 004 tds.
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I forgot to say thanks guys for your comments. Based on the above I don't think I need a softener, however I can't get the tds reading below 017 after RO no matter how I try after 3 1/2 years at it! So my resin works quite hard to get it to zero.
Maybe thats just how it has to be for me?
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I'd say it also depends if you have a van or static ro. In my mind they'd be too much hassle in a van, but an automatic one on a static is well worth it. My tds is only 2-3 on the pure, if the ro starts pulling through hard water then the tds goes up to 10-12. They are supposed to make your ro last longer as well, the tds on my ro has never increased and the membrane is 2 years old now. Something else to factor in is the cost of salt, not mega expensive but it does add up.
All in all if I was setting up again from fresh, I'd buy one for a static but not for a vanmount and only on a 4040 system.
Simon.
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I'd say it also depends if you have a van or static ro. In my mind they'd be too much hassle in a van, but an automatic one on a static is well worth it. My tds is only 2-3 on the pure, if the ro starts pulling through hard water then the tds goes up to 10-12. They are supposed to make your ro last longer as well, the tds on my ro has never increased and the membrane is 2 years old now. Something else to factor in is the cost of salt, not mega expensive but it does add up.
All in all if I was setting up again from fresh, I'd buy one for a static but not for a vanmount and only on a 4040 system.
Simon.
where do you get at automatic water softener that rejens the resin with salt ? I want one as manual is a ball ache
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I go home put salt in and turn tap on have a cup of tea, go out once drunk salt all dissolved flush ro and have dinner, then go out and produce water.
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I'd say it also depends if you have a van or static ro. In my mind they'd be too much hassle in a van, but an automatic one on a static is well worth it. My tds is only 2-3 on the pure, if the ro starts pulling through hard water then the tds goes up to 10-12. They are supposed to make your ro last longer as well, the tds on my ro has never increased and the membrane is 2 years old now. Something else to factor in is the cost of salt, not mega expensive but it does add up.
All in all if I was setting up again from fresh, I'd buy one for a static but not for a vanmount and only on a 4040 system.
Simon.
where do you get at automatic water softener that rejens the resin with salt ? I want one as manual is a ball ache
I got mine from www.purewindowwater.co.uk but they don't have any on the site to buy. I think GAPS sell them. Mines metered to regen after 3500Ltrs, if it is near the limit then I just press the override button and it will regen.
As I remember that (3500) size retails for around £400ish. If you want to be really classy you could get a twin cylinder job and only worry about topping the salt up when it needs it (they would never run out of soft water as when one cylinder is used up it regens and switches to the other).
Simon.