Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Jim Gibbard on January 20, 2009, 04:50:50 pm
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Hi Guys,
I have been following the threads on Website topics and would particularly like to add my comments on the thread started on Jan 14th. by Mike Osbourne - What Is a Website For ? Sorry it's a bit long, that's why I started a new thread, but I hope it helps with website related queries.
My day job is cleaning and the internet is my hobby. I have been involved with the internet for a couple of years now and have learned about and practiced building websites & SEO ( search engine optimisation ) techniques. I hope some or any of the answers may help someone.
Mike Halliday Jan 14th.
I'm having a website done, but I'm not sure what direction it should take.
Is a website a way to educate customers on what we do or is it an introduction to the company so potential customers know who you are. Mine at the moment is more about the company and just gives a short over view of what we actually do. it is a 'pretty' design with just the basics of what the customer needs to know. When it’s finished I'll put up a link.
Comment:
A website serves many purposes. It is a way to enlighten customers who have never had carpets professionally cleaned – there are still many about. About what to look out for when choosing a cleaner etc; Plus something about the company they are hopefully going to be dealing with – building credibility & honesty. Altogether, selling your company and putting money in the bank.
Derek West
mike,
look at it as an extension of your advertising, for all those bits you can't fit on your leaflet or 1 liner in a free ads paper.
Derek
Comment:
Dead right. Who can afford full colour leaflets with pretty pictures? Two colour yes,
but display your website address prominently and they can go to your site to view all the pretty pictures they want. Plus, it sets you apart, the “Splash & Dash” merchants tend not to have websites – people could find them and sue them ;D. I bet you could run a website for 3 months or more for the cost of a one liner. Hosting costs at the moment are very reasonable. Once your site is set up, your monthly running costs would be less than the cost of a small box ad in a newspaper.
Mark Roberts,
I’d say a bit of both, but more emphasis towards new potential customers. I can’t see too many of my customers logging onto my site just for information other than say emergency tips.
Mark
PS. make sure you do it right first time as if its a template Mark is selling then its going to be the one I'll be using more than likely.
Comment:
Yes, it is essentially for attracting new clients, but you must keep your regulars informed, as they can tell others where to find you. You could also have a special offers page which changes every month to keep them looking, plus you may add new services to your business which they may be interested in, which they might not have otherwise been aware of.
Shaun Ashmore,
I get work from my website so it's not just an information piece it's a sales tool but knowing who you are selling to will help with the direction you need to go with the message you are giving.
Shaun
Comment:
Spot on Shaun, The more targeted your website promotion the more business you will get. So, if you want high end, middle or low end, target that particular market.
Mike Halliday,
Mark I think the template will work like this, each page will have a picture in a set position and text in a set position. so all it takes is my picture is removed and yours goes in it place same with the text. The pages will have a set background and be in a set order. Although it will be a template it will still look like a normal website unless you see 2 website side by side. Mine (IMO) is looking very nice and looks professional.
Mike,
Comment:
Sorry Mike, but who wants a website that looks like someone else’s. You should strive to be different, stand out from the crowd. Look at different website designers and compare costs.
“Google It”. Why settle for bog standard.
Mike Osbourne,
A CC website is for making money as far as I'm concerned. If you don't get the traffic then it's not much use. In Mike's case with his 3mile exclusion zone there may not be hardly any, but then again there may be quite a few people who never read a leaflet, but do search by where they live and 'carpet cleaner'
Mike,
Comment:
Right Mike, it’s for making money, No.1. Getting traffic – targeted traffic is the key. I don’t quite understand the 3 mile exclusion zone. There should not be any exclusion zones on the internet, it is free for all. Once again it is how you attract traffic to your site. It is not a franchise. People when searching will only look for “Sparkle Clean” if they have heard of them, otherwise, they will search for what is logical to them – “Carpet Cleaner In My Area “.
Doug Holloway
Hi Guys,
100% agree CC websites are there to make money, mine have brought in a large amount this week.
Cheers, Doug
u]Comment:[/u]
There you go, proof of the pudding. !!
u]Comment:[/u]
Have you any suggestion for what website name I should choose. Ultraclean is my business name but .co.uk and .com have been taken.
thanks, Mark.
u]Comment:[/u]
Still the best domain name extension as far as the search engines are concerned is .com. - if you can get one.
Shaun Ashmore,
Ultracleanbelfast
It’s available!!! But only any good if anyone knows you as Ultraclean.
Shaun,
Derek West,
if you’re from Belfast like shaun suggests. i'd definitely have my url as either.....
carpetcleanersbelfast.co.uk / belfastcarpetcleaners.co.uk /belfastcarpetcleaning.co.uk
carpetcleaningbelfast.co.uk - trust me, ditch the ultraclean in your url, no one searches that way unless they know you direct in which case you'll be there about anyway with an ultraclean search due to your content.
Derek
u]Comment:[/u]
Exactly the way to go Derek, you must have some experience of this. You can still call your company “Ultraclean” but call your website a search engine friendly name like Carpetcleanerbelfast.com , and it is available at the moment – get in quick Mark. Your domain name is a marker or label for your business on the internet, you certainly do not need to change your business name to Carpetcleanerbelfast.com.
Another way to target your traffic is to use : carpetcleanersbelfast.co.uk /belfastcarpetcleaners.co.uk /belfastcarpetcleaning.co.uk /carpetcleaningbelfast.co.uk -as one page web sites for landing / gateway pages that re-direct to your main site ( which can be called Ultraclean Belfast, if you wish ) when clicked on. You do of course have to own the domain names.
Doug Holloway,
I have about 20 to 25 sites which directly affect my CCing.
Cheers, Doug
u]Comment:[/u]
The proof, Doug gets the traffic.
Mark Roberts,
So do you all ditch your business name and call yourselves carpet cleaning Sheffield or where ever. In advertisements such as YP or on the van do you have your business name and your website address or just the latter. If I do call myself carpetcleaningbelfast.com will I always be at no 1 in a search if the search is carpet cleaning in Belfast. I’m really thick when it comes to computers/web stuff so be gentle.
Mark
u]Comment:[/u]
Mark, answer above. There are many, many factors in getting top page positions. The search engines change the rules every now and then to make things interesting. One of the most important components of a website is a site map. The search engine spiders make a bee line for this, as it tells them all about the website. Another important factor are links to and from other sites. It is not the visual element that they look for, but content. At the moment Google seems to favour sites that are rich in content and add to the searcher’s sense of satisfaction. So, if a searcher finds what they want, they will use Google again next time and be exposed to Google Adwords – another story.
Mike Osbourne,
It will help with rankings but it's not essential. I found the learning curve very tough at first and I'm just about feeling I know a little.
Mike
u]Comment:[/u]
The more specific you are with search terms, the better the result.
Clinton:
I did a 10 minute search of available domain names suitable to your business name and area and came up with 10 that were available, they were good ones too.
Summary:
So, I hope you will see that a website presence is essential if you wish to be in with a good chance of competing favourably against your competitors, this will be even more important as time passes, with thousands more people searching the web every day, for their needs. The Web is the new “Yellow Pages” if you like, but it’s much better, much cheaper and I feel, much more user friendly than a directory advert. Also, you can put your own personal stamp on it.
People are searching the web looking for useful, attractive sites which are utilising the latest marketing methods, like sites with video and audio content. Look at the popularity of “YouTube”. You can tell prospective clients how good you are all day long, but, you know what, seeing something being cleaned is far better than trying to imagine what it will look like when it is cleaned.
As I have said, I have been involved in learning about internet marketing for a couple of years, but I feel I have just scratched the surface. I have got to the point where I can now build my own sites from start to finish and I really enjoy it. In fact I am now sort of semi-retired cleaning, probably give it a few more years – the old knees are playing up now – then I will concentrate on the internet.
If anyone is interested in having a site built from the ground up, I can manage to produce a few a month. I have a couple I am doing at the moment. They would all be unique and I am sure, if managed correctly, probably be the best marketing money you ever spend and increase your number of jobs and profit. Your site can include Video and Audio if you wish. If you are interested in a site, email me and I will send you all the details. Your site would be bespoke, built just for your business and unique to you, not a variation of a template.
Have a look at 2 of my sites, my cleaning site and one I have just done for golf. They are designed to be functional and user friendly with lots of links – embedded, internal and external. Also, look at the site maps. Your sites would also be optimised for the search engines and submitted to a number of search engines. But please be aware, you will not top the rankings overnight. It depends how quickly and how often the search engine spiders visit your site and of course, your choice of domain name – I can also help you with this.
Sorry the post was so long, but I hope it gives some further ideas on websites and their usefulness to everyone in business, whatever business. It could give you the edge!!
Jim Gibbard
http://www.spic-n-span.co.uk
http://www.golf-del-sol.com
eMail: info@spic-n-span.co.uk - Stating “website info required”
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by eck you put some effort into that post!! ;)
just to answer one aspect aimed at me, who wants a website that looks like someone else's why does that matter? as long as it they are never found in the same search, and I don't think Alltecs select team would agree, theirs all look the same.
but its done on a template basis to make it cost effective.
BUT!!! I've now found out they won't be the same all of them done by MarkDP will be totally different
good post Jim :) :)
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mike
seen my home page and all though its gonna change a few times over the next few weeks, its nothing like yours so looks like all marks will be unique.
jim
excellent post, especially the bits where you agree with me, ;D
good luck with your change of career, if you do eventually go into website design, bit less physical than cleaning carpets. :)
derek
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Derek I saw yours today when I was at DP it look very nifty, Me & Mark were havng a laugh about how each one he does will get better & better so me being his first was'nt a good idea.
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Hi Guys
Good first post Jim.
Websites are a fascinating 'hobby' because there are so many ways of looking at them. Different people will have different strengths and objectives.
Go for it all you doubters.
Cheers
Doug
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Good post Jim.
Looked at your web-site and you are not ranked by Google nor do you have any backward links.
It would help to have both to achieve a high and constant placement.
Davey.
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Guy's,
Thank you for the welcome.
Mike H,
Quote:
just to answer one aspect aimed at me, who wants a website that looks like someone else's why does that matter? as long as it they are never found in the same search, and I don't think Alltecs select team would agree, theirs all look the same.
but its done on a template basis to make it cost effective.
Alltec, is a different proposition, their main objective is "Corporate Branding". I would venture that this is the reason they are all the same- Alltec first, members second, which is a reasonable position, given their overall objectives.
Derek West:
I have watched your posts, you will go far- you have "The Right Stuff" .
Don't change your ways, if you do, make sure it is only for the better.
Cheers Mate.
Doug,
Respect, you are obviously a believer!!
Davey,
Not sure which site you are talking about. If it is the golf, this was a project. With the collapse of Sterling against the Euro,
I don't think there will be many golfers going to Spain this year. Hence I have not bothered to push it. I look on it as as showcase site as to what can be achieved with a website. Just check out the RSS feeds on the home page ( Really Simple Syndication ).
It is the automatic supply of news information relevant to that site which changes every day. This is a feature that search engines are looking for more and more.
If it was the cleaning site, search on Google For : The Spic n Span Group - last time I looked today, it took up 6 places out of 10 on the first page.
Otherwise search on Spic n Span - I think it is in the top 5 on the first page. It was No. 1, for a long time but I messed about with it experimenting and it dropped down to page 3 Just goes to prove the saying " If it ain't broke, don't fix it" I'm pretty confident it will again rise to No.1. again within a month, without me touching it again. I do not push it too much because with my knees, I could not cope. ;D.
Jim
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Hi Jim
If you Google for "carpet cleaners coventry" your spick-n-span site is a 'no show'.
You are in Coventry?
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Hi Daveyboy,
I have not optimised it for carpet cleaners coventry, I could if I wanted to but I choose not to. With my recommends I more or less get all the work I need and can manage. As I have mentioned before I am semi-retired.
If I wanted to get Spic n Span on any search with Coventry in it, I have a list of more than 20 available domain names based on Coventry that I could make 1 page gateway sites that would send anyone landing on it to my main site.
Jim G
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Wow! Change a URL and get ranked. Sounds too good to be true.
G
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Jim
Out of interest how many unique visits ( not Hits ) do you get a day on your sites? It would be interesting to know how other peoples web sites are doing also.
bob
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Good question Bob and I'd like to know what people's bounce rate is. I think my site is made of rubber.
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Wow! Change a URL and get ranked. Sounds too good to be true.
G
Garry, ;)
I've been through my previous post and I am afraid I can not find the part where I said I would change a URL. What I did say, was: " If I wanted to get Spic n Span on any search with Coventry in it, I have a list of more than 20 available domain names based on Coventry that I could make 1 page gateway sites that would send anyone landing on it to my main site".
This meant I would or could, create new URL's heavily reliant on the keyword "Coventry". Example "Carpet Cleaning Coventry" or a derivitive, which, when accessed would divert that traffic directly to my main site "spic-n-span.co.uk".
This is taken that a the URL is the domain name, or website.
Jim
Out of interest how many unique visits ( not Hits ) do you get a day on your sites? It would be interesting to know how other peoples web sites are doing also.
bob
Bob,
That is a good question !! Personally, I track hits through a website visitor counter. If you do your own sites, you can search on "Google" for free website counters and you can indeed get one free to put on your site. The disadvantage of using free counters is usually they carry advertising for the company supplying them and they can not be hidden. This will tell you about the number of hits, unique visits and return visitors.
I use one on my site supplied by "www.bravenet.com". I have used this for just over a year now, it was about this time last year. I think it is now at about 2500. in 12 months. On the face of it not too bad, 200 a month, 50 a week. But I must be honest and say that part of that was due to PPC (pay per click) - Adwords. But not knowing a lot about customising adwords at that time, I was getting hits from all corners of the Universe, which of course were absolutely worthless.
But having said that, I did get some really good jobs from it. The best was an office relocation job for about £1200 which I know was from Adwords, because you can track your hits with it. I suppose over 9 months, it cost me an average of £50 a month. If you want or need a lot of work, I would suggest that is one of the better ways. But you, or whoever is running your campaigns must know what they are doing or it can run away from you and leave you heavily out of pocket.
I think Garry knows a lot more about this than me as he is doing it for clients.
Good question Bob and I'd like to know what people's bounce rate is. I think my site is made of rubber.
Mike,
Bounce rate !! Another goody. I think you can describe bounce rate as people who hit your site by accident, realise this and get straight out. Website counters will not tell you this. The Adwords program deals with this very well, but I am not aware of any other ways to detect bounce rate.
Hope this helps, it is just my personal experience of these matters.
Jim G
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Hi Derek
Nice looking website but I would very politely like to say some of the wording did make me cringe
eg . Oh and you will get a call a few days later to make sure you are still happy
the oh bit (in my opinion dosn't sound very good) I think I would delete that whole line.
Also the gallery (maybe cap.G to match the others along the header) you use words like trashed and I even got a tip for that!
Sorry - just my opinion
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bit out of the blue barbara, but thanks for the critique, i'm having a new one built this week, i will gladly take your comments on board, your right, trashed is not a pro word, and "oh" does sound a bit cringeworthy now you point it out,
anything else while your there as a lot of the wording is going to my new site.
i'll inspect your web site now with a fine tooth comb to see if i can get my own back. ;D ;D
derek
ps... i don't actually like my site, its plain boring and longwinded, my new one will be more colourful (pink) and to the point. i'll let you have first dibs on picking fault with it before it goes live.
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barbara
in this bit....
We use a hot water extraction process, cleaning solution is sprayed deep into the pile of your carpet. At high pressure, with water the solution and the dirt are extracted from the root of the carpet.
doesn't flow right. ;D ;D ;D
i think youve got an excellent web site if thats the best i can come up with.
and ive probably just read it wrong. :-[
derek
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That was quite tame I did expect to be slaughtered for my comment - sorry derek ;D
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constructive critisysm is always welcome is the westy household barbara, especially when its said in a friendly tone, yours was just that and i thank you for it.
derek
ps... i'm making amends to the wording as we speak and will be put onto the new website for your keen eye to peruse at your leisure. :)
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No problem derek, you will end up putting a lot of effort into your website creation yourself eventhough your not actually doing the work yourself. Your constantly thinking of ways to make it look and sound the business. My was finished end August, SEO is pants so getting that sorted out at the moment too. I've had a few estimate enquirys from it (one being someone off this forum fishing for prices)! Did our first job from it the other day, so it takes a while and hopefully once SEO gets sorted the work will come rolling in ;D
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Just got a website but don't know much about how to promote it apart from obviously putting it on the ads and business cards.
What exactly is search engine optimisation, I know what it means from the wording but how do you go about it.
Also what exactly is hosting.
John
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Barbara
I see you've got the same guy cleaning the carpet as Pilgrim Payne :D
Bob
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Just got a website but don't know much about how to promote it apart from obviously putting it on the ads and business cards.
What exactly is search engine optimisation, I know what it means from the wording but how do you go about it.
Also what exactly is hosting.
John
Hi John,
If you go back to the start of this thread, you may find some answers to your questions.
Jim G
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Bob - he gets around dosn't he - busy guy ;D
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Barbara
;D ;D
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Barbara,
I thought we were getting a photo. 8)
Clinton. What guitar or guitars do you use?
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Hi rabby
Got an few old gibsons i have had for many years was an expensive buy when i bought them :)
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Rabby
Didnt ask you if your backs on the mend ???
Barara
Go on show us your picie 8)
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Mike Osbourne,
Re: Bounce rate.
Do you mean site wide or for each page?
I'll check back here tomorrow. After that I'll take a look at a few site analytics (sorry, site names will have to stay confidential) and come back to you.
Cheers,
Garry.
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Whoops,
Did you mean bounce rate on Adwords ads or general site traffic?
G
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Gary
I mean on a homepage, looking at Google Analytics and it seemed high ie over 50% and was wondering what other CC were getting.
This is traffic from organic searches.
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I don`t get to bogged down with analytics anymore, never did trust them all that much.
I get the phone ringing, that does me.
Backs miles better Clinton, cheers for asking, still a wee worry though.
Two Gibsons. You cant hide money mate. Just got a PRS, it`s a nice.
You got anything on Utube?
Rab
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I have tried to load my picture but have been having trouble 8) - ???
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Oh Bugger - its worked :o
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Barbara :)
Anyone told you you look like weneth paltrow :)
Rabby
Can see who got all the money :)
A johny marr and oasis fav :)
No u tube,what about you ???
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Babara was the one who got run over in Sliding doors ;D
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Rab when my back went and then eventually got better I would walk like an old man my Dr said it was pain memory and I should wear an elastic belt under my trousers/shirt so it would make me stand tall and give me confidence, they were wise words I think I got mine form ebay.
Shaun
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Mike ;D
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Clinton
I hope she's seen it and gets the joke.
There was one of those 'connections' programmes on last night about it.
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Mike
Am sure she will n barbara does look like her:)
I also saw a bit of that too and didnt know it was joey from bread :o
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Yes, that's going back a bit.
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Was suprised to see him,guess its like ron howard from happy days and he went on to be a top director :o
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Mike,
Quick figures...
Site A ... 1 page "salesletter" type 80.60% (hardly surprising)
Site B... 5 Page "brochure" site 67.24%
Site C... 7 Page "brochure" site 66.53%
Site D.. 328 Page integrated shopping cart (e commerce) 43.07%
I'm working on the Adwords definition (I don't understand Jim's way of calculating it).
Here's the rub. Site D is the worst ranked and worst performing (I've only been working on this nightmare for three weeks)
A & B are on page 1 but not seeing much traffic (actual searches sre right down).
C is getting lots of traffic and most importantly, doing good business.
Looking at the phrases that people entered the sites (especially the high ranked ones), it would appear that a lot of the "bouncers" were "curiousity clickers.
If these were Adwords stats I would be worried but they are not.
Rabby is spot on.
It's not a good idea to look at stuff in isolation. It's a bit like the fixation on this thread about keywords in URLs. From a ranking point of view they have very little effect in the overall picture.
G
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That's interesting Gary.
Thanks
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Looks usefull to garry :)
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Mike,
Quick figures...
Site A ... 1 page "salesletter" type 80.60% (hardly surprising)
Site B... 5 Page "brochure" site 67.24%
Site C... 7 Page "brochure" site 66.53%
Site D.. 328 Page integrated shopping cart (e commerce) 43.07%
I'm working on the Adwords definition (I don't understand Jim's way of calculating it).
Here's the rub. Site D is the worst ranked and worst performing (I've only been working on this nightmare for three weeks)
A & B are on page 1 but not seeing much traffic (actual searches sre right down).
C is getting lots of traffic and most importantly, doing good business.
Looking at the phrases that people entered the sites (especially the high ranked ones), it would appear that a lot of the "bouncers" were "curiousity clickers.
If these were Adwords stats I would be worried but they are not.
Rabby is spot on.
It's not a good idea to look at stuff in isolation. It's a bit like the fixation on this thread about keywords in URLs. From a ranking point of view they have very little effect in the overall picture.
G
Garry,
You seem to have this thing about mis-quoting what people have said.
Take bounce rate: You said--"I'm working on the Adwords definition (I don't understand Jim's way of calculating it)"
I said: - "Bounce rate !! Another goody. I think you can describe bounce rate as people who hit your site by accident, realise this and get straight out. Website counters will not tell you this. The Adwords program deals with this very well, but I am not aware of any other ways to detect bounce rate".
Where are the calculations you are refering to? What I did say, was "I think you can describe bounce rate as people who hit your site by accident. Which is remarkably similar to your statement: "it would appear that a lot of the "bouncers" were "curiousity clickers". - Yes, people who had no intention of really being there.
I don't know what you are trying to prove from your figures, because they are only of relevance to each particular site they refer to. It can depend on any number of conditions: The market they are in, The competion in that market, the efficiency of the Keywords & Meta Tags, site design, site features etc. All it tells you is that bounce rates are high. I'll bet 90% of sites on the web have high bounce rates unless they are attracting targeted traffic.
Your other statement: "It's a bit like the fixation on this thread about keywords in URLs. From a ranking point of view they have very little effect in the overall picture.
I presume you are refering to me as the fixationist . I have offered an honest opinion on the relationship between keywords and URL's ( Unique Resource Locators - official description ) and it's effect on page ranking. If you do not believe it works, fine, that's your opinion. But if you are having a "pop" at someone, have the decency to name them.
Your other point: " From a ranking point of view they have very little effect in the overall picture". Tell that to the internet marketers of this world using those techniques to make Millions per year using the tehnique" . You surely don't think that I thought it up did you?
So, please get your facts right before you post. This is the second time you have misquoted me on this thread.
Jim G
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Jim
I have always thought domain name means a lot to google when searching phrases.
Just wondering why you have a link to a site called spic and span instead of CC(area)?
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Mike
Thought spick and span was a mag that advertised cleaning firms as well ???
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Jim
I have always thought domain name means a lot to google when searching phrases.
Just wondering why you have a link to a site called spic and span instead of CC(area)?
Mike
Google and all search engines search on the information inputted by the searcher.. Input Spic n Span and it will be on the first page, somewhere. But if a searcher does not input Spic n Span ( They don't know us, it will not find us on that first page. Google looks on the words inputted ( not sure if that is a proper word ) and considers them to be "keywords" and searches on them. It can be complicated.
I've traded as "Spic n Span Specialist Cleaning Services" from 1988 until 2004 - When changed to The Spic n Span Group.
Did not have a web site all that time. Web site 2 years ago, did not know anything about SEO then so called site Spic n Span.
I have not bothered to optimise for Cov as I have enough work from Recco's and leaflets. If you look back through the thread, I have already answered this question. All I know about SEO I have found out for myself from studying Internet Marketing from the web. Something I have learned from many hours on the web is this: " If you need to find out how to do something really well, ask or take advice from someone who is an expert in the field in which you would like to excel. Pure & simple ask someone who "really knows" rather than thinks he knows.
I have some knowledge, but I am knowhere near to being an expert, there is an awful lot to it and it changes all of the time, but I shall continue to seek advice from people who are successful in their field, and - someday maybe?
But Not Yet!!
Jim G
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Mike
Thought spick and span was a mag that advertised cleaning firms as well ???
HiYa Clinton,
Think I shall answer that one.
Firstly, it's Spic n Span(me) not Spick & Span (them).
There are I should think dozens if not hundreds of Spic n Spans in the uk, judging by google.
So, I've got all that competion as well to contend with. Ah, it's a hard life ain't it.
Jim G
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Jim
As a rarity on this forum you appear to speak sense.
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Jim
Thanks, I did read your previous post but I must have missed that bit, sorry. ;D
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Jim
As a rarity on this forum you appear to speak sense.
Glynn,
Thanks for that.
My mother said to me once ( god bless her ) : "If you use your ears and eyes more than your mouth, you will not go far wrong".
Jim G
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So that's where I went wrong !!
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Jim ;D
As sure your posting will help some of us with advice on our sites in the future :)