Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: james roffey on January 12, 2009, 08:39:08 am
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As a newby, can i ask what exactly constitutes "eco- friendly carpet cleaning" i have heard talk of microsplitters and saw a demo at the Alltec open day and they are really pushing it with the marketing etc but at a huge cost! well eco friendly cant be patented so its for all of us to offer, i just wanted to understand what chemicals from start to finish are used, are they more expensive, are they as good as conventional chemicals,and where can to get them? cheers
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Alltec, Solutions UK, Chemspec ,Prochem , Ashbys Restormate to name a few
As many of you know Alltec are doing three Eco days this month and explaining the correct way to use their product plus join ECO Network
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Are they more expensive?
I dont think so.
For instance M-Power from Solutions UK and Nemesis Super from Restormate are very kind on the pennies per sq yd.
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Joe
Agree with you on those products :)
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At the stated dilution rates they are. Bumping it up on a lot of jobs, as I invariably have to, certainly shows a difference....
BUT
The money I spend on cleaning products in a year pales into insignificance when compared to what I spend of fuel!!
My own personal opinion is that to be truly eco-friendly you'd have to turn up to the client's house on a horse-drawn cart, hand made with wood from a sustainable forest. You'd have to have no tools or equipment made from plastic, nothing electric that requires plugging in.... just stuff made from hemp fibre and tree branches (all from renewable sources, of course) and the only power you could use would be power you generated yourself, i.e. doing everything manually and by hand.
So let's see....
The "Eco Warrior" carpet cleaner rolls up to the job in his van, which is made of all sorts of plastics and non-recyclable parts and has a carbon footprint the size of a small country. The energy used (and wasted) in vehicle manufacture is absolutely phenomenal.
To get to the job, he's been burning diesel on the way there (sod off with your bio-diesel, it's just a different kind of pollution), then he unloads from his van all the same tools and kit we all use, which are made from all the same metals and plastics which have depleted the earth's resources and consumed VAST amounts of non-renewable energy in order to be made, manufactured and shipped around the world between suppliers and customers.... he plugs it all in to the mains and uses up more power gained from non-renewable fossil fuels.... but just because he uses an "Eco Friendly" cleaning product, all of that is forgiven ::)
YES I'm slightly sceptical about the "ECO" tag. Just because you use M-Power or nemesis or whatever microsplitter, it doesn't make the damnedest bit of bloody difference to the environment. It's just a marketing gimmick.
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Hi Guys
It is easy to cynical about this but a lot of customers like it and it makes one think of the type of chemicals being used.
My preferred eco Product is Prochem Pureclean, mainly because I get excellent results.I know it is a salt and there are issues with phosphate polution but in my view it is lesser evils.
I have an LPG driven TM and have also formed then Green Carpet Cleaning Network.
James all the suppliers now have their eco ranges but it is as much about how you go about things which matters.Costs are pretty much the same as other chemicals.
Cheers
doug
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We have been marketing our use of non toxic products since 2005, in this area people are reluctant to
introduce any additional aggressive chemicals to their home. Why would I want to use other products when, in my opinion the eco friendlier solutions work as well if not better....bit of a no brainer really.
S
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Sustainable, green or eco friendly cleaning is, IMO, more about minimising the impact of our commercial activities on the environment rather than negating them, so yes Jim it is about marketing, but certainly not a gimmick in my case.
We all have to market in one way or another and I suppose people would be quite justified in saying that I was putting "spin" into my marketing. A good example:
Doug has invested in Truckmount technology and runs his machine with more eco friendly LPG. That's positive marketing or, if you like, spin. But there's a massive carbon footprint etc. from the manufacture and running of the machine. I, on the other hand, use a high performance porty that runs on "clean-in-use" electricity. That again is the positive spin. Buit likewise there is a massive carbon footprint etc. from the manufacture of the machine and the production of the energy.
So, is eco-friendly cleaning, or eco-friendly anything, a reality? IMO no. We, and society, should perhaps refer to it as eco-considerate. Even "Sustainable Cleaning" doesn't tell the whole story as there is so much unecofriendly elements involved prior to the delivery of the actual service.
Doug has mentioned phosphates which are the primary constituent of micro splitters. Whilst they are typically food grade products, The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA) state that sewage works are required by the Urban Waste Water Treatment Directive to process the sewage for the small amount of phosphates coming from cleaning and human waste products. So there is, by inference from the appropriate government authority, concern over the use of phosphates. Our UK sewage works are successful at managing this, but does in the process create other environmental impacts from energy through to chemicals.
There has been of late, new friendlier products coming onto the market. Products such as Nemesis, M Power, Ecogent and DFC to name but a few. The technology is in it's infancy and I can see more manufacturers stepping upto the mark to develop new, fully biodegradable products.
Beware when buying Green Products. Read the labels and sales blurb. Something that is greener or friendlier than previous formulations doesn't mean to say that it's GREEN or FRIENDLY, just not as "bad" as it was before.
For the record, my cleaning practices minimise the amount of time that my high energy consuming extractor is in use. Lower energy consuming machines and process' are used prior to this. My cleaning solutions are from plant and dairy origins and are fully biodegradable and I don't take the manufacturers word for that as I use products that are certified as so by world recognised independent authorities. I recyle all of my plastic containers and outer packaging, use the smallest van I can get away with that returns 36/37 mpg tank after tank after tank of derv. Although I travel out of area a little, I control my mileage to less than 10k per year. I follow good office practice too of recycling paper etc and being paperless where viable. As a businessman, or householder, there's not a lot more that I can do.
But then, on a sunny day, I'll fire up the Suzuki and hit the road :-X
Life's a b1tch, then you ride :D :) ;D
Ken
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We have been marketing our use of non toxic products since 2005, in this area people are reluctant to
introduce any additional aggressive chemicals to their home. Why would I want to use other products when, in my opinion the eco friendlier solutions work as well if not better....bit of a no brainer really.
S
Probably more to do with the big Fck Off TM you got outside rather than the magic water. ;D
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Some really well thought out debate here (hope I don't let the side down).
What I think I dislike most is hype without substance. It seems that some business people (in any industry) seem to think that just because you use "eco" or "green" or have a picture of a baby in clear water that this is sufficient to push an agenda and expect people to buy off them simply because they use those words or that type of image. As if it's a magic wand for creating income.
I'm all for being considerate to the environment but I would have to call myself a hypocrite if I then marketed myself as such. Some would call me foolish but I'll just crack on doing what works for me and trying to be as considerate as I can be without ramming it down people's throats and trying to get them to feel guilty that they are not as green as me.
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As a supplier of "Green" products I do so not in anyway to save the world. Although I am a strong advocate of recycling as the resources of the planet are being used up at an alarming rate, I do have reservations regarding global warming, which is incidently a totally different subject.
I sourced green products because I could see the wider picture regarding corporate and government organisations going down this route. By supplying suitable products enables my customers to carry out work where "green" or "eco friendly" products are a pre-requisite of carrying out the work.
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Has anyone stopped to ask why people want Eco cleaning?
Is it to save the planet or is it to not introduce 'chemicals' into the home?
I find that the last statement is what they really want, people are not stupid they open the door to the world and know that they are going to be breathing in corrupt air it's the fact that in their little piece of England that they want a nice fresh indoor enviroment a bit of a micro climate for them to think that they are fresher and away from the nasties of the outside world.
Shaun
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Has anyone stopped to ask why people want Eco cleaning?
Shaun
Yes
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Ithink all you eco warriors are not actually eco warriors at all you're just trying to find a different marketing angle than the rest of and that just makes you all hypocrites.
Come on people be honest now how many of you who market so called eco products / services actually give two hoots about the environment. The truth is your all just trying to make a few quid out of other peoples fears / concerns.
Personally i've never been asked by any customer if we do eco chemicals and why is that because people aren't worried about whether or not there carpet cleaner uses eco friendly chems but they do associate the word eco with saving the planet which is why you use it. sorry for being so cynical but am i talking the truth or what?
Col
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Colin
I hope for your sake it doesn't take off then, because either your family will have to go hungry or you will have to be a hypocrite.
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Mike, i think the world has far bigger environmental problems than the tiny, alsmost insignificant difference between the pollution an eco and none eco carpet cleaner contributes to global warming. I think us filthy polutters can sleep easy for a while at least.
Col
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I totally agree, what we do is literally a drop in the ocean and you can tell your Clients that till you are blue in the face but it IS going that way and we will have to adapt.
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Mike, between my three units we did over 2000 jobs last year and without a word of a lie not a single customer asked whether we used eco friendly prducts. all this eco chemicals etc is something some carpet cleaners have seized upon to make a few quid by cynically taking advantage of people's quite legitimate fears about the environment. Whether or not we as an industry use eco friendly chems or not means nothing. Stopping the Chinese from opening 5 coal fired power stations every week is a legitiamte issue and when we achieve that then maybe then we can look at eco friendly carpet cleaning.
I wonder if any of the eco warriors carpet cleaners can provide us with data showing what effect none eco carpet cleaners are having upon the environment ::)
Col
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Colin
At the moment you are correct, but I recently completed a tender application for our local authority and how we dealt with protection of the environment accounted for quite a high % of the score.
The same will apply to all local authority tenders and hospital tenders and this will be taken up by aircraft cleaning, education, etc, etc.
Eventually it will become a REQUIEMENT and you will have to COMPLY!
I hate being forced into COMPLIANCE but it will be along.
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OK so we agree that there's stuff going on that puts all this in perspective, like the movie stars who drive Toyota Prius then jump on their private jet for lunch in Milan. Or the councils that love eco recycling till the bottom dropped out of the paper market::)
Just suppose however, 30% of your clients said I care about the environment and I don't care what you say Colin I believe in saving the planet. Would you seriously drop them as a client if you couldn't persuade them otherwise?
As for cynical marketing, remember our clients are the ones who by the wrinkle creams ;)
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ALL marketing needs a cynical edge, it's how to grab the prospects attention . In politics it's known as SPIN.
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Colin, I'm afraid as far as a lot of commercial cleaning is concerned you soon won't have a choice as environmentally friendly chemicals will be a requirement.
Also the EU are a 3rd of the way through testing every chemical in everyday use and already quite a few have been banned due to them being classed as hazardous. It is likely over the full 10 years of the scheme quite a few more will also be banned. This is already forcing manufacturers to change their product range.
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The main concerns my customers have with chemicals are to do with are they safe with children and pets etc, saving the planet is an extra benefit that comes with it.
Eco friendly gets mixed up with safe to use as far as the customer is concerned.
Having to work with these cleaning agents all the time I know which ones I would rather use.
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Spot on Colin.
Not one person, domestic wise, asked if I was eco friendly last year.
Got the odd one asked if it was safe for the babies to crawl on it or their pets to walk on it afterwards.
Commercial wise not one company asked about eco friendly.
Only one asked for a risk assessment.
Me personally I couldn't give a sh*t, after all 95% of climate change is naturally occurring according to the stats.
Brings back memories of the millenium bug con.
John
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I try to do my bit for the environment and reduce my dreaded carbon footprint. i turn lights and appliances off and drive my van a little slower to save fuel and therefore emmisions but unless i thought it a good idea to market eco friendly green carpet cleaning then i wouldn't give it second thought purely as an environmental issue because it isn't one, its just been made one by those seeking to profit from other people's concerns about the environment. The truth is that even if you use a supposedly eco friendly chem to clean the carpet your still burning fuel travelling to the job and running your tm so what is the planets nett gain from being eco friendly? sod all in my opinion. But if it gets you a few jobs does that make it ok to be duping people, I'm not sure about that.
Col
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colin
i understand what you are saying...........both of my recycling bins are full every week ,i have energy efficient bulbs,i wear my underpants for a week :o an so on and so on
but i thought that the idea of business.............was to make as much money as possible whilst spending as little as possible???
if by offering a "eco-service" you gain more customers then surely it has to be worth it......even if it means using plain water!!
how can you be duping customers if they ask for it!
like you i have never been asked for a eco clean....but if asked i will provide at extra cost as i dont use m/s or eco products and i would have to buy them for that particular job! so why shouldnt i charge accordingly?
i have never ripped anyone off. ;) ;D
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if i wanted and eco clean, i wouldn't ask colin or john or spindle if they used eco friendly solutions. i'd search for an eco cleaner.
its not hard to work out why you guys (and me) don't get asked.
you wouldn't ring a ford dealer and ask for a brand new vauxhall!
just because you don't get asked, doesn't mean theres not a demand for it.
derek
ps... i hate eco, its just another tax burden. but like jk says, we'll all have to use eco solutions soon enough. tut.
sandals, yes, grow my hair long! impossible! ;D
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There is a demand and I have been asked in the last 12 months and even in the last month.
I have had calls from people who have seen my website so know I offer it.
The fluids cost no more then detergents so why charge more?
I have a range of fluids in my arsenal - something to suit most ocurences I come across.
Members of families may be asmatic or allergic to various fluids - there the ones that ask for and want something friendly for their family.
I remember a discussion on a forum in the last 12 months (maybe this forum) where a certain fluid affecting the breathing of the carpet cleaners.
A client I cleaned for in December had a particular allergy and did her own search on the internet for a product that could be used and not affect her condition.
She rang me and asked would I use this product.
When I asked what it was I said I already have that product and use it.
I got the job.
Stick your heads in the sand if you want to, but you miss whats going on around you.
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ken
how do you recycle your plastic containers, my wife says there not allowed in the plastic recycling bin cos theyve had chems in, please tell me she's wrong, there everywhere.
derek
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The majority of my customers are asking for non toxic cleaning (no b/s) most of them live in Brighton, Hove and Lewes, all of them are pretty well read on this subject and fortunately for us, they like the info on our sites.
They are concerned about their own personal indoor environment, particularly the 'chemical exposure' issue. We have nearly three weeks worth of work, which considering the economy is good, I wonder how this compares with others?
There will always be people knocking others that make the effort (however small) which tends to make my conversion rate stronger... cheers!
S
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Well said Spencer ;)
Some people cant open their mind.
If customers want it why not listen to them? its a selling point.
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As I said at the top of the thread Eco cleaning means to Joe Public no chemicals in their home.
Eco cleaning is a selling point just like the most thorough cleaning or it's free or dry in 60 minutes, providing it does what it says wouldn't you say it's for the customer to decide?
Shaun
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Col
There are various reasons why some of us offer eco cleaning. My own personal reasons have been well discussed here so I wont go into them again. As mentioned above by Roger (?) I don't feel that global warming is an issue for my business to be involved with. Global warming was happening before the industrial revolution began less than 300 years ago.
You are unlikely to have Jo and Josephine Bloggs ask for green cleaning, but you are in business to SELL them your service. If you have a USP, then use it/them. This can assist you to achieve a premium price for your service and, if someone is in a situation to make a choice between two similar quotes, the one offering more "bangs for their bucks" has a better chance of winning.
Derek
I only put 1 or 2 at most containers into recycling at a time. I rinse and flatten them first. No problem YET. They've even taken unflattened 25 litre containers! I can also take them to the local tip. Mind you, I do pay my council taxes on time ;)
Safe and happy Eco Cleaning :)
Ken
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"The Most thorough and eco green quick drying no chemical free rinsing cleaning you have seen or it's free!"
I think that's covered it I think.
Shaun
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Spencer, no disrespect my friend but that is a load of boll_x. You seem to be the only person in the country claiming:
The majority of my customers are asking for non toxic cleaning (no b/s) most of them live in Brighton, Hove and Lewes, all of them are pretty well read on this subject and fortunately for us, they like the info on our sites.
What a load of tosh ;D Customers well read on the subject of non toxic carpet cleaning, yeah right!
If it were true then why aren’t your competitors offering Eco-cleaning. Greens of Brighton don’t, Apollo Cleaning Services don’t, Scrub don’t, Emmenel Cleaning don’t, but there’s this big demand in Brighton for Eco-cleaning is there? rubbish ::) You may have marketed to people who other wise may not have known about eco carpet cleaning but that is totally different to you suggesting that there are all these well read people searching desperately for an eco cleaner when in fact there can’t be because none of your competitors seem to be moved to go down the eco route but manage to stay in business. The fact is there wouldn’t be an Eco carpet cleaning side of this business unless it were started by carpet cleaners seeking to exploit peoples concerns about the environment but to suggest you are all doing it to save the planet is a joke ???
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Is there a certification type body here in the UK? Or do we trust what is on the label or told. ;) Leaving a footprint is one thing, chemicals another.
Advertising Eco is good for business but! Be prepared to support your claim if asked. ;) ;D
Len
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I guess that Eco carpet cleaning does work then if Spencer is getting work on the strength of it just like Chris Straker but it is a strong selling point it's all of the other words that go with it that make the sale. A bit like Eric Morcambe when he said he could play a tune on the piano but not necacarily in the right order ;D
Shaun
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but you advertise eco friendly cleaning Shaun, do you get calls from your website for it?
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A bit like Eric Morcambe when he said he could play a tune on the piano but not necacarily in the right order ;D
Shaun
now theres a classic, ;D ;D ;D ;D
or better still....
police car goes past his bedroom window at full speed and he turns to earnie and says?
derek
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"he won't sell many ice creams going that fast"
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;D ;D ;D
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A couple a year Joe and I do ask but don't really push it apart from wriiten avertisements ie cards and YP, it doesn't cut much until you start to preach it but I also preach the fact I am very very good so something has to give.
Shaun
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Perhaps what Spencer and Chris have shown, is that target marketing works !!!!!!!!!!!!
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The word "dry" certainly works.
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Especially if there's a "quick" in front of it
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works even better for the ladies if theres "white wine" after it. ;D
derek
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Or even carbonated water. ;)
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SPINDLE2K
What does anyone achieve from wearing thy boxers for a whole week without changing them?
I agree with the argument that soon the EU will ensure most companies produces eco-friendly cleaning products and soon all government sites will have to implement green cleaning.
Yeah, I also agree that people are more concerned with the impact thus chemicals might have on thy children and pets than how many trees it thus saves.
However I do think using chip oil to power thy vans is a great idea, the only problem is we would need to eat more chips which kind of defeat the object, so, we could buy more gas off Russia, well, the Checs might not want us to get it so then all the vans would have to park up. I think chip oil is the key, but who can we feed the chips to? The French? The Americans? The Dutch? The Swedes? or maybe we could swap chips for Swedes, hmmm (this was my idea first hands off). Got it! The Germans. Alo Alo could use it to feed the ResisTaunce. Would it be any good to animals or would they thus become over weight coach potatoes?
DAMN Houston we have a problem, we can't find a resolution. So we will use what works, the things we have been using for some time now, so what was the problem again?
Oh, Steam, lets use steam engines, the Yorkshire miners would be grateful, oh, Maggie messed that up. What about them hot rocks down south that they think will be able to make us electricity - have they decided whom should get rich from this yet? They best soon so thus poor confused CCs can get on with thy daily business.
I use DFC105 to rinse. But to pre-spray I use any aggressive animal i can get my hands on, Formula 90, today i used Alltec's Ultimate Master, tomorrow I might decide on Prochem's Crystal Green but William of Pure Hydro Cleaning said dump Crystal Green and use Prochem Double Clean so I will and he said if that aint doing the trick add some Prochem Power Burst - Damn this guy is dangerous.
So which products should you use? Try Prochem, Chemspec and Alltec Green Products if those don't work come back to the forum and I am sure somebody will be able to help you with more info. Just remember I love green simply because I want to always use green, why because the cleaning chemical manufacturer says so. Oh and it's save for the KIDS, especially when consumed at bedtime.
OK seriously, I think it's a sensible way forward and I do sell the thing and my customers think it's great as a rinse so I always rinse with a green chemical -, well, only since I discovered DFC105. They wont pay me the premium to use the green think for the entire process, and, yes I charge more for totally green. That's soon to change so no swearing please.
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Gold Finch, dont take this the wrong way but I honestly believe that 0845 number will be a barrier to some customers calling you.
If I'm looking for a trades men I would move on to the next advert that has 0800 or landline.
Craig
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Col
There are various reasons why some of us offer eco cleaning. My own personal reasons have been well discussed here so I wont go into them again. As mentioned above by Roger (?) I don't feel that global warming is an issue for my business to be involved with. Global warming was happening before the industrial revolution began less than 300 years ago.
You are unlikely to have Jo and Josephine Bloggs ask for green cleaning, but you are in business to SELL them your service. If you have a USP, then use it/them. This can assist you to achieve a premium price for your service and, if someone is in a situation to make a choice between two similar quotes, the one offering more "bangs for their bucks" has a better chance of winning.
Derek
I only put 1 or 2 at most containers into recycling at a time. I rinse and flatten them first. No problem YET. They've even taken unflattened 25 litre containers! I can also take them to the local tip. Mind you, I do pay my council taxes on time ;)
Safe and happy Eco Cleaning :)
Ken
Naughty Ken##
Putting commercial waste in the Houshold Waste chain is an Offence
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GOLDFINCH
IT WAS A TONGUE IN CHEEK COMMENT ??? .......meaning that in my household we are very careful not to waste energy/food/etc......and we recycle loads!! :D
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i got it spindle.
but then mine are on inside out, its week 2. ;D
derek
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What's the point of the little green boxes, they are going to chuck it landfill when nobody's looking, because it all comes down to £££. ;)
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lmfao@ derek!! :o ;D ;D
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Hi
Mike is correct recycling is and has always been complete and utter nonsense.
The UK target was 25%, this means that 75% is still dumped in landfill, now the scrap market has collapsed this is probably a lot higher, now the paper and wood is kept in warehouses, problem with this is that if it is not recycled within 2 months, it's useless.
Part of my biz is eco friendly as the sponges are biodegradable and my use of water is minimal. For me not many people ask and just want the job done, although if they are there I will tell them about the system.
If it helps your biz then use it to earn some coin, if not then don't worry about it, although local authority are becoming keener on eco products and services, that way they can tick some boxes.
Regards
Martin 8)