Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Kevin R on January 08, 2009, 05:55:31 pm
-
Well due to having hot WFP we have finished this weeks window cleaning and also done a couple of extra jobs too. The dry and cold conditions, although difficult at times have allowed a clear run at the work. I know we have been one of the only wfp firms working this week due to the cold. So just quoting, admin, kit tidy and a definite POETS day tomorrow.
So was my investment in hot wfp worth it? I think it was and is.
Thanks to Varitech's Hot WFP and frost protection system we have been able to work, been confident and assured that our system was protected and it was always ready to work. The money we would have lost has gone a long way towards paying for the system!!!
Another interesting point is we have been set on 40 degrees C @ brush all week and no cracked glass!!!! Well if this week has not been a test for thermal shock I don't know what would be ;)
Happy Daze ;D ;D ;D
-
What temperatures have you been working in?
Because I know of one Hot WFPer who still had to give it up because it (the water) was freezing up on contact with the ground, which of course made it dangerous for home owners/public etc.
-
This is my 'issue' with hot...that despite being 'able' to work is it safe to...
I have no doubt that hot has many advantages but this 'issue' does concern me.
Cheers
Dave.
-
i have had no time off at all although on somedays i have started at 10, 0 clock, but somehow i have managed to get my work done.... tuesday was really bad, on a few windows the water froze on the window,....and i had a lot of isopropyl in my tank....i did trad all doors, :)
however it has been a ;Dvery frustrating time and i wish i had the hot water system...i would like to have one this time next year, it may not be the comlete solution to the problem buit will help significantly, even if its to have nice warm hands....
:D
-
I will have done 4 days by the end of the week, even if I had hot WFP I wouldnt have done the 5th day, I also dont wish to be wetting peoples walkways at risk of broken limbs, particularly thinking of people breaking wrists/hips etc.
I went over to WFP because as an operator it makes things much safer for myself, its a bit rich when so doing your putting your customers well-being at risk!!
I would find it very hard to be comfortable with myself if by working in dangerous conditions one of my customers hurt themselves because i failed in my responsibilities.
JMO
-
Salt is cheap guys,.. I got some today and like Kev says, salt before you work and there's no problems. I'm using about 1.5kg per house at the moment which costs about €0.50 per house (3 bed semi-size that I charge €20 for) so the impact on profits is minimal.
I'm still starting work late though because driving conditions are crazy first thing!
-
You should charge extra for putting the salt down, Slug killing ;D
-
Well due to having hot WFP we have finished this weeks window cleaning and also done a couple of extra jobs too. The dry and cold conditions, although difficult at times have allowed a clear run at the work. I know we have been one of the only wfp firms working this week due to the cold. So just quoting, admin, kit tidy and a definite POETS day tomorrow.
So was my investment in hot wfp worth it? I think it was and is.
Thanks to Varitech's Hot WFP and frost protection system we have been able to work, been confident and assured that our system was protected and it was always ready to work. The money we would have lost has gone a long way towards paying for the system!!!
Another interesting point is we have been set on 40 degrees C @ brush all week and no cracked glass!!!! Well if this week has not been a test for thermal shock I don't know what would be ;)
Happy Daze ;D ;D ;D
Winds me up whoppy for you fella whats the point of your post though? Apart from saying look at me!!!!!
-
I will have done 4 days by the end of the week, even if I had hot WFP I wouldnt have done the 5th day, I also dont wish to be wetting peoples walkways at risk of broken limbs, particularly thinking of people breaking wrists/hips etc.
I went over to WFP because as an operator it makes things much safer for myself, its a bit rich when so doing your putting your customers well-being at risk!!
I would find it very hard to be comfortable with myself if by working in dangerous conditions one of my customers hurt themselves because i failed in my responsibilities.
JMO
Glad to see that you assessed the risks without even really thinking about a solution to the problem, let alone being able to implement an effective and safe working strategy. Glad you don't work for me! You'd get nothing done!!!
Kevin why do you get so uppity when someone expresses an opinion that isnt the same as yours? You seem to do that on lots of your threads ;)
I was only saying it how I feel things are for me!
Or am I not allowed to?
You wanna chill Kevin, you'll have an heart attack :o
-
Granted but why not say that when you posted the topic, Dont you think we know that our systems have been frozen and it been a hard week. Just appeared you were giving it arge . Yes if we did have 8k plus to splash out on hot wfp i would and prop so would 70% on here.
-
I assessed the risks and possible solutions, though you think I didnt (how you came to that conclusion is beyond me) and felt it was too risky/dangerous. It was assessed buy observing the sheet of ice on my back patio forming after throwing a bucket of water on it. Unscientific? Yes! Accurate? Yes! The temp in my back-garden on Tuesday was -12.
The risks were greater than the benefits (the risk of someone being injured as a result of water lying on the floor and freezing outweighed the benefit of having clean windows).
To me the whole thing added up to assessing the WHOLE situation and coming to the conclusion that it can wait a day or two and that money isn't everything.
I will still have done 50% more this week than this time last year on the ladder. We obviously see things differently, Im perfectly happy to accept your opinion and work ethic, its just not mine. And so far as Im concerned Im happy with that, though for some odd reason you aren't. Chill pal, chill.
-
Well done Kev, you made a risk assessment and dealt with it. Does anyone have any ideas for a hot trolley system?
-
Anybody using cold wfp on very cold days might consider going hot but they may feel it's too expensive and undecided whether they wish to commit to spend a huge sum of money on equipment.
The best thing they can do is test the water using an element or a cheap portable gas heater or heating directly from an indoor hot tap through DI for a day or two to see the benefits for themselves and then decide wether it's worth the investment.
I thought long and hard before I took the plunge and went hot a couple years back. It was worth it for me but it's not for everybody.
-
Granted but why not say that when you posted the topic, Dont you think we know that our systems have been frozen and it been a hard week. Just appeared you were giving it arge . Yes if we did have 8k plus to splash out on hot wfp i would and prop so would 70% on here.
My Hot box is an add on. Varitech supply them for £2300 plus VAT. So its not as expensive as that and like I said its an add on that can be fitted to your existing vehicle. I invested in the system after trying one. On commercial work its so much better. However I took me six months after trying it before I could afford to buy it.
I'm not trying to be "funny" I am just glad I had the opportunity and good fortune this year to be able to buy one and now I have one I seriously think they will be the "standard" before much longer.
I didnt realise they did a add on you got a link so i can take a look please
-
The only downside that I can see is that you have to keep working flat out, you leave that pole for a few minutes when your doing the doors etc, and your jets would be frozen, hot or not.
-
kevin r
do u trust your inline tds
jerry
-
kev a lot of heat is lost in the hose.
The worst time for thermal shock is a morning when the air temp is okay but clear sky facing windows could be minus three etc.
-
Kevin
off the subject where you get the clear tube and jg conections on your di bottles from? been looking every where
-
I have worked all week. Even on Tuesday when it was -7 am. No problem. I just ragged ( yuk) front doors and no problems. Was very careful about ice on walkways. Bought 7kg of salt from sainsburys. Used about 1kg. Left van doors open all day. When I finished checked water temp in tank, was 6c. That is because I leave oil filled rad on all night and a large body of water takes a long time to change temp. Only had half a house freeze, that was because they had gone skiing and left heating on low.(hopefully ::) )I am interested in hot but still listening. The main benefit I can see is obliterating the snail trails in the summer. Which is a pain in the neck. I can see y the French eat them.
-
Is that the same kit that NWH has got?
What van are you running it out of and how much room does it need?
Matt
-
Well due to having hot WFP we have finished this weeks window cleaning and also done a couple of extra jobs too. The dry and cold conditions, although difficult at times have allowed a clear run at the work. I know we have been one of the only wfp firms working this week due to the cold. So just quoting, admin, kit tidy and a definite POETS day tomorrow.
So was my investment in hot wfp worth it? I think it was and is.
Thanks to Varitech's Hot WFP and frost protection system we have been able to work, been confident and assured that our system was protected and it was always ready to work. The money we would have lost has gone a long way towards paying for the system!!!
Another interesting point is we have been set on 40 degrees C @ brush all week and no cracked glass!!!! Well if this week has not been a test for thermal shock I don't know what would be ;)
Happy Daze ;D ;D ;D
Winds me up whoppy for you fella whats the point of your post though? Apart from saying look at me!!!!!
lol
-
Is that the same kit that NWH has got?
What van are you running it out of and how much room does it need?
Matt
Yes it is.
-
Just out of interest, what temp is the frost protection set at?
-
So what sort of area/dimensions are we looking at here?
-
I have worked all week. Even on Tuesday when it was -7 am. No problem. I just ragged ( yuk) front doors and no problems. Was very careful about ice on walkways. Bought 7kg of salt from sainsburys. Used about 1kg. Left van doors open all day. When I finished checked water temp in tank, was 6c. That is because I leave oil filled rad on all night and a large body of water takes a long time to change temp. Only had half a house freeze, that was because they had gone skiing and left heating on low.(hopefully ::) I am interested in hot but still listening. The main benefit I can see is obliterating the snail trails in the summer. Which is a pain in the neck. I can see y the French eat them.
Its main benefits are the rapid removal of bird crap, spider crap and webs and sap. It brings white upvc up like new - no black dots etc. Customers love it. And of course its quicker and is frost protected in the winter. Another benefit is we have a separate hose that lets us fill a bucket with water for inside trad work.
I have not used any chemicals since going hot - you just don't need them. We do everything including cladding just with hot water and of course it dries very quickly allowing you check you work on any job larger that 3/4 houses.
You also dont have to scrub as much ;D
Yes just what I thought. Excellent idea, for the insect and snail problem. I think I will upgrade soon. I find summer the biggest pain, esp with customers that like gardening. I already have a separate tap and hose to fill my back back from my van mount. When doing insides (if i can't put them off, unless it is raining ;D) ) customers always happy to let you use hot water tap for my fairy liquid. I have tried the others, something 3 and 4 ,glide, slide etc etc. Ettore Unger SYR . They may be brill for some but good old fairy is fine by me.
-
So what sort of area/dimensions are we looking at here?
-
Lot smaller than I thought (dont know where I got the idea from, but thought it was bigger).
Interesting.
Its not something I would consider right now, as I do have other things going on which I would prefer to spend the spondoolies on, but its obviously worth considering in time. It isnt so far as Im concerned something Id have because of freezing weather, but because it improves the ability of any system to clean and is more efficient time-wise.
Thanks.
Matt
-
Yea, undoubtedly.
Would be nice to get the prices down to a slightly more affordable level.
You can buy a reasonable van for 3K!!
-
Lot smaller than I thought (dont know where I got the idea from, but thought it was bigger).
Interesting.
Its not something I would consider right now, as I do have other things going on which I would prefer to spend the spondoolies on, but its obviously worth considering in time. It isnt so far as Im concerned something Id have because of freezing weather, but because it improves the ability of any system to clean and is more efficient time-wise.
Thanks.
Matt
Going over to the dark side :o
Im firmly on the fence, always have been ::)
-
If you ordered 1 now it would be the same as the 1 in my pic or Kev`s first 1`s.
-
Thankyou chaps.
-
Been thinking today, I think I'll go for it actually chaps! :)
-
I am thinking very seriously about going hot. It's a no brainer really and after the effort of going to wfp it should be an obvious move.
After all it's no different in principle to putting a boiler over a sink.
-
I am thinking very seriously about going hot. It's a no brainer really and after the effort of going to wfp it should be an obvious move.
After all it's no different in principle to putting a boiler over a sink.
No just more money lol. ;D
-
It's a no brainer really
Essentially yes.
Which is why Im going to go for it.
It isnt going to involve finance, so will have to wait til the years end. Got 2 holidays to pay for between then and now and getting the tank fitted in a fortnight.
-
Best thing you`ll ever do. ;)
-
I expect going WFP was/will be the best (without WFP there wouldnt be hot WFP anyway ;D )the way I see it going over to hot is the icing on the cake.
-
It's a no brainer really
Essentially yes.
Which is why Im going to go for it.
It isnt going to involve finance, so will have to wait til the years end. Got 2 holidays to pay for between then and now and getting the tank fitted in a fortnight.
And a tax bill ;)
-
When working trad everyone fills there bucket with hot water if they can,or they prefer to anyway.
-
Weve been using water fed pole systems since 2003 always used cold water systems as like carpet cleaning its down to dwel/soaking time on the glass that will do the work not temprature.
Ok apart from not having a frozen system on cold mornings this year being one of the very very few in my lifetime as harsh as it has been then i cant really see how to justify the outlay with it making any difference.Every cleaning job weve done with cold water has had the same result im sure ass a cold system would.
Even on frosty mornings the hot water will still freeze if the outside temp is below freezingthere is standing water left , but the only big worry i would have with a hot water system and its only my opionion and because i have seen it happen is the following.
In 2007 a leading Resin supplier warned the industry that Hot de-ionised water could actually be corrosive and detrimental to some framework because oxygen will leave the water at high temperatures resulting in a higher concentration of dissolved carbon dioxide which increase it’s acidity.A well known water fed pole supplier advised............ in stubborn dirt scenarios to either pre-treat with detergent or double clean with cold water to avoid costly law suits due to damage.
The company also said that after researching the cleaning power of pure water concluded that it is the Structure of the pure water it’s self that does the cleaning not the temperature of the water this has little or no effect
But im sure they are as good as they are reported ? or maybe the suppliers wish you to believe hot water systems ARE better than cold because they have a bigger price tag on them. Just like water fed poles carbon fibre thousand pounders are better than aluminum and glass fibre low cost ones ..right !
-
I am merely stating my opinion on hot water systems we too have used both hot and cold and we use only COLD but as you have said its your own preference.
One thing though as you have me confused......
I am not a supplier I am an end user - We use hot because it works - why would I waste money on it if it didn't work? We have just ordered another van - it will be fitted with a hot system.
And this .... we now use less staff as the jobs are taking less time
-
Well its nice to see we are all still expanding and improving but like you said its individual preference and not either.
I know of some "trad" who wont even entertain wfp because their mates says it leaves spots.................and thats without even trying it
-
Kevin,
I have to say I have enjoyed reading your honest thoughts and views on your hot water system.It certainly has given me food for thought, its a shame others slag you off,when your only posting a topic that you feel can help other w/cleaners not only in the cold weather but in improving wfp effeciency.
Can I ask how much extra weight the hot water system weighs?
Does the hot water system use the Vans dieseal tank?
Does the hot water have a higher water flow rate then cold water in the winter?
How long does it take to have the system fitted and what warranty is offered with the product?
Where was it fitted?
Thanks Neil
-
It`s quiet a heavy unit for the size i was surprised when i recieved it and had to take it to the guy who fitted it,it weighs about 50 kilos so it is heavier than you think.
-
Matt @ Oakley Windows
u r going to the show
cold is best just scrub a bit longer
jerry
-
Kevin,
I have to say I have enjoyed reading your honest thoughts and views on your hot water system.It certainly has given me food for thought, its a shame others slag you off,when your only posting a topic that you feel can help other w/cleaners not only in the cold weather but in improving wfp effeciency.
Unbelievable isn't it. I do enjoy a bit of disagreement but the shouting loudest and longest tactic should have been left behind at primary school.
Kevin is 'too big' ::) to post regularly on here without people getting paranoid that he has a bigger c ock than them.
Am glad it hasn't put him off posting.
-
Kevin, can you tell me which company you used for the van and did Varitech fit and supply the entire system if so, what was the total cost including the "Hot Box"?