Clean It Up

UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: feldon on January 07, 2009, 10:08:32 pm

Title: Alternative income
Post by: feldon on January 07, 2009, 10:08:32 pm
As someone who is looking to start up in the not too distant future I am doing lots of research first.  I have certainly learnt a lot of advice on here and have received lots of good advice, one common piece of advice is not to give up full-time work first. Now whilst I am taking this one board and I will certainly try to keep my job for as long as possible, I am also looking at other ways of making money, at least untill the carpet cleaning takes off.  I am looking to gain my customers via leaflets and to this end I have been looking at leaflet distributors, who in my area charge about £40 per 1000.  Now it occurred to me that in the early days and to save money I could do it myself, then I thought what if I delivered non-competing leaflets, no more than two others and charged for delivering them.  Apologise if someone has mentioned this before, but has anyone tried this, was it a success? ::) ::)
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: Shaun_Ashmore on January 07, 2009, 10:14:39 pm
I would personally just deliver yours and yours only the response will be far better, get dressed up and talk to customers when you are delivering offering them a card although you will give thema leaflet anyway that's a bit of bullpoo for them but they love it.

Call it meet and greet, then after you have done 5000 leaflets in the areas you think will work the best do it all over again and build up a trust that you are going to be around for ever.

Shaun
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: mark_roberts on January 07, 2009, 10:54:32 pm
After delivering 1000 youll soon realise why we all pay for others to deliver.

IMO keep your day job as many established cleaners are feeling the pinch never mind new starts.

Mark
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: clinton on January 07, 2009, 10:59:03 pm
I did a hundred before xmas and wont be doing many more ::)

Geting someone else to do them :)
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: Ryan Smyth on January 08, 2009, 03:03:00 am
You are just a ray of sunshine Mark,give people a chance i assume you had to start somewhere,i dont think hes from Ireland so im sure he cant compete with you :P

Ryan
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: Ryan Smyth on January 08, 2009, 03:05:13 am
Pesky new starts....why i oughta..... ;D

Ryan
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: Ian Rochester on January 08, 2009, 05:03:36 am
You need to be careful if doing this, once you promise toproviding a service to deliver someones leaflets then the onus is on you to do the job in a timely manner.   They will have different priorities to you, will maybe want them delivered in other areas to where you are looking, need them done before a certain date, etc.

You could well end up becoming a full time leaflet distributor before you even get a chance to become a carpet cleaner.

Mark is right though, the whole country is feeling the pinch at the moment and the cleaning industry is no exception.   Starting out in carpet cleaning involves quite a large sized outlay compared to other cleaning professions.   

Forget the promises the manufacturers make about what your potential earnings could be, they are pretty much pie in the sky.

At the moment the vast majority of our work is from repeat customers or recommendations, there is very little totally "new" work coming in.

£40/1000 leaflets is quite high, undercut them and become a leaflet distributor!!  A company near us started up doing this 4 years ago and now employ over 250 staff and are looking at opening another operation in Glasgow.

www.amaro.co.uk/Pages/home.htm (http://www.amaro.co.uk/Pages/home.htm)
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: Doug Holloway on January 08, 2009, 07:36:32 am
Hi Guys

I have delivered hundreds of thousands of leflets over the years, it was how I built my business.

It's hard work, very boring after a while but good for fitness.When I was still playing football it improved my stamina  :)

Delivering more than one leaflet will halve or worse your return.

Carpet cleaning is a very difficult business to get established in, even in good times .

I would certainly advise not to give up the day job in this present climate.

Cheers

Doug
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: derek west on January 08, 2009, 07:47:16 am
i believe in 100% commitment, having a job and trying to set up another business is something i don't think works, you get home from work, your knackered, theres money in the bank, "aaaahh fck it, i'll do them leaflets another day"
my advice would be save save save, research research research, and in a couple of years (or when you get made redundant) (which ever comes first) when the country starts getting back to normal, quit your job, buy the best kit possible and "GO FOR IT"

derek
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: clinton on January 08, 2009, 08:18:47 am
Doug

Did you get my mail ???

As ian said in his last post not much new work and am the same,just geting my regulars and recomds.
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: gwrightson on January 08, 2009, 08:40:53 am
Feldon,
good luck with your venture .
You have and are doing the right thing in your attitude towards the industry by learning and seeking advise!! 
In Answer to you question , yes you will need to try and have another income if possible in the infancy of your business. Why ? because it makes life alot easier when things are slow,( and they will be slow times especialy for newbies) and unless you have an unlimited amount of cashflow ,Ignore Derick,s reply , because it doesnt matter how much commitment, how much time, how much effort you put into it .it is not going to line your pockets with gold!!! 
Sorry Derick, your comments save ,save save, research,research are Bull **t Why you say this beyond me :-\   
The way to learn , wether it be the hard way / easy way   go out and do it , you,ve done the right thing so far , get another income if possible and go and earn some money c/c , amazes me why their are so many negatives , all doom and gloom flying around at the moment. their is , always will be plenty of work for every one if your prepared to get it. simple.

Geoff.
ps  Not disagreeing with derick regarding best kit poss ;)
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: Ricky M on January 08, 2009, 09:37:20 am
just looking at my Jan job sheet and out of 30 jobs only 6 are new clients 2 services for services(NO MONEY) 2 that moved from Dec Re: parties  2 spot/Stain treatments so that leaves 18 regs or clients on CP with me . £172.50 is the biggest job ( special needs home could poss be treble that tho !?)  smallest job £30

So I most agree with the majority , not much new work coming in at the min but Ive No web site an only put out 9k leaflets in Nov-Dec , small ad in Yell pages and BT book .

It might not be the best time to be a new comer to the industry but go with your heart , i.e. if you want in that bad go for it with eyes open as going into anything new there is always a risk of poss failure.
GOOD LUCK :)
Ricky
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: derek west on January 08, 2009, 12:27:58 pm
can i just point out, that i would never tell anyone to ignore someones ideas, neither would i say anyones advice was bull.
yes! i sometimes disagree with people on here, but that doesn't make me right or wrong.
feldon
listen to everyones advice then make a calculated guess as to what to do. my comments were from my own experience which is doing ok, so there not bull in my eyes.
derek
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: gwrightson on January 08, 2009, 12:54:52 pm
Derick,

I say it as I see it , ( sorry if you took offence )  but then again I am a yorkshireman ;)

we say what we mean, and mean what we say  .

 ;)   well most of the time

Geoff
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: Doug Holloway on January 08, 2009, 01:04:34 pm
Hi Guys

Clinton, got it this morning thanks, I am working on optimisation, things will get better.

Cheers

Doug
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: richy27 on January 08, 2009, 01:30:27 pm
i think a lot of people would think twice about starting any new venture in the present climate you can turn this on its head and use it as a good thing it will make you more caucious on your initial investment you are more likely to get a better deal on advertising equipment at the moment as long as you not planning on borrowing vasts amount of money to start why not go for it. I started up my own business few months back although its slow i expected it to be but i had a good dec and few things in the pipeline this month it will just take time. when i set up i had saved up for a long time so i was able to buy most of my gear out right so i have no heavy monthly outgoings. so if the van is sat doin nothing apart from advertising its not costin me.

You do need money though to advertise but be carefull and see with a lot of things very easy to get sucked into expensive methods when sometimes the cheapest and simplist seem to work better.

I agree with derek take everyones advice think about and use what you feel could work.

My theory on other income is this i am lucky enough to have a part time job milking on a farm evenings 3 night a week pays my advertising bill. if i need to advertise more to get goin then i will just do some extra work there.

its very easy to get put off but its all down to economics how much as an individual do you need to earn to be ok.

Hope that helps
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: feldon on January 08, 2009, 01:41:26 pm
Thanks for your replies.  A lot of you are saying how quite it is, and not many new customers, but is that not the time of year, January and February are quite months for many industries.  Thats why I am looking to start up / launch in April, but I will keep a close eye on how the economy is doing and if need be I will delay till later.  

How many of you are saying you are not getting new business though and relying on existing customers and then say you have not done much marketing.   I am looking to put out a miniumum of 15,000 leaflets a month, and then repeating to the same customers every 4 - 6 weeks (stong advacate of Mike Halliaday) and I not expecting a significatant response untill month 3, as I suspect 1st drop people throw in bin, second maybe look at then throw in bin, but third drop some will hopefully start to recogonise leaflet and will start to act upon, I am basing my business plan on small response to leaflet drops ie. 0.2% - 0.3% per thousand, building up over a 3 month period.

My idea to drop other leaflets as well as mine is because I aim to get a leaflet company to drop my nearest town and I will drop around 5000 per month around local villages, I thought I might be able to earn about £80 - £100 per week to help out initially, I have no intention of setting up a leaflet disribution company, but I have experience of leaflet drops of 1000 per week, so I do know how soul destroying it can be, but I also know it can work.
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: Mike Osbourne on January 08, 2009, 02:08:55 pm
I quite often deliver another leaflet and haven't noticed that much of a drop of in response. However what I'm doing is working with other companies that are delivering my leaflets too, thus reduce time and cost.

It's a bit of a pain logistics wise but saves a lot of time.

There's no need to rush into who you do it with, take some time to think about it.

Whilst they defo should be non competing there is a lot of value in doing it with a company that may deal with the type of customer you aspire to. When you get friendly with them and get chatting, cross promotion opportunities abound.

I think it would be a mistake if you didn't start off by delivering your leaflet solus by yourself, not because of end response but so you have a benchmark for everything else.

If you are really really smart you always have two versions of the same ad on the go. This is the only true way to know which is working better. A printer can do this at no extra cost.
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: sherco on January 08, 2009, 04:39:27 pm
I delivered 50 leaflets 3pm today on the way home and just got in and got two calls on answerphone from the estate i delivered too.  ;D
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: Mike Osbourne on January 08, 2009, 04:55:03 pm
Smug bastrd!  ;D
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: Doctor Carpet (Ret'd) on January 08, 2009, 05:02:54 pm
I delivered 50 leaflets 3pm today on the way home and just got in and got two calls on answerphone from the estate i delivered too.  ;D



......complaining about the junk mail ::)
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: Mike Halliday on January 08, 2009, 05:10:51 pm
I was thinking of delivering some leaflets on the way home tonight, only 20 or 30 but couldn't be bothered.

when I got home I had 3 calls on the ansaphone, all them on the lines of......" you were thinking of putting a leaflet through my door this afternoon, I thought I'd save you the bother and call you anyhow"

just show how great leaflets are!!

YOU JUST HAVE TO THINK ABOUT PUTTING THEM OUT........ AND THEY BRING IN WORK!! ;D ;D

 I going to think about doing it again all day tomorrow, should bring in loads of work
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: Mike Osbourne on January 08, 2009, 05:14:37 pm
An even smugger git.  ;D
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: clinton on January 08, 2009, 05:15:54 pm
Mike

You beat me too it ;D

You charmer ;D
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: sherco on January 08, 2009, 05:18:07 pm
I delivered 50 leaflets 3pm today on the way home and just got in and got two calls on answerphone from the estate i delivered too.  ;D



......complaining about the junk mail ::)
No they were inquiries regarding cc as i have just phoned them back....Funny thing is i have just had a call from the police, somebody reported me acting suspicious, i explained to the copper on the phone i was delivering carpet cleaning leaflets, and he said that's fine, and he said do you cover crowborough area! as his wife wants there carpets cleaned, so i got three jobs today to look at.... ;D
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: Mike Osbourne on January 08, 2009, 05:24:10 pm
Someone told me when I was a lad that what you dwell on becomes a reality.

Anyway kate bush and Blondie are looking a bit rough these days so I don't want it to become a reality now. ;D

Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: Doctor Carpet (Ret'd) on January 08, 2009, 05:44:41 pm
Someone told me when I was a lad that what you dwell on becomes a reality.

Anyway kate bush and Blondie are looking a bit rough these days so I don't want it to become a reality now. ;D



Showing my age but also include Suzie Quatro.

Incidentally, I've heard it call "iceberg syndrome". If you get a new car and are terrified of scratching it, then if that's what you worry about unduly that is exactly what will happen.
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: JandS on January 08, 2009, 05:54:03 pm
Not tried leaflets yet but I do post business cards periodically in areas I'm working in, usually 80 to 100 at a go and every time I've done it I've had 1 call and sometimes 2 from them.
Also had calls a couple of months down the line from people who've put them to 1 side for later.
I know what I do with leaflets, I don't even look at them most of the time just bin them.
Another thing I've started doing is giving customers a fridge magnet of my business cards so the future will reveal how effective these are.
I think that's a COOL idea!!!!!!!!!!!

John
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: Mike Osbourne on January 08, 2009, 06:15:43 pm
John ever thought of doing them frequently rather than periodically?  ???



Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: derek west on January 08, 2009, 07:39:07 pm
pans people for me.
oh i am greedy. ;D
derek
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: Mike Osbourne on January 08, 2009, 07:54:19 pm
Kenny Everett


No the show I mean! Those hot gossip girls! Filth on legs. :P
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: derek west on January 08, 2009, 07:59:15 pm
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

hills angels, ;D
derek
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: clinton on January 08, 2009, 08:00:58 pm
I remember the hot gossip girls  oooohh
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: Mike Osbourne on January 08, 2009, 08:03:05 pm
How sad are we? ;D
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: derek west on January 08, 2009, 08:07:10 pm
very :'(

derek
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: clinton on January 08, 2009, 08:08:52 pm
What about the new bird on coundown :-X
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: Mike Osbourne on January 08, 2009, 08:11:56 pm
The nearest I get to Hot Gossip these days is the Mrs telling me about Mandy the receptionist and her expanding waistline since the office party. ;)
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: clinton on January 08, 2009, 08:31:16 pm
Mike

Just hope it wasnt you smooching with the lovley mandy ;)
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: Shaun_Ashmore on January 08, 2009, 08:53:05 pm
What about Legs and co ?

Shaun
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: derek west on January 08, 2009, 09:04:22 pm
shaun ya yungun
didn't they replace pans people. guess they were before your time.
oh to be young and be able to wand and wave.
i'm only jealous
derek
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: clinton on January 08, 2009, 09:17:12 pm
Top of the pops in the 1980s legs and co :)
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: derek west on January 08, 2009, 09:24:05 pm
top of the pops in the 70's and maybe the 60's, pans people.
derek
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: clinton on January 08, 2009, 10:17:15 pm
Derek

Was going to ask you if you are going to put an add on service ie drive washing etc ???
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: derek west on January 08, 2009, 10:46:22 pm
no clinton.
too many carpets out there to be cleaned first.
one step at a time for me.
get well known in my area for high quality affordable carpet cleaning first then i can branch out with driveways and hard floors, and i'll have a lovely database to market too so it won't cost any where near as much.
thats the plan anyhoo.
derek
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: clinton on January 08, 2009, 10:47:30 pm
Just thought id ask :)
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: Shaun_Ashmore on January 08, 2009, 10:52:32 pm
Derek you only need a small database when you have a load of different services, that's why utility companies want to sell you Gas, electric and water to one provider.

I think the statistic for getting a new customer is 7 times more expensive than selling to your original.

If you walk through a good customers home and she says to you I'm having my Amtico floor cleaned and sealed next week by Competent cleaners would you be pleased?they may steal your customer!

The Yanks call it leaving money on the table.

Shaun
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: sherco on January 09, 2009, 08:26:22 am
Derek you only need a small database when you have a load of different services, that's why utility companies want to sell you Gas, electric and water to one provider.

I think the statistic for getting a new customer is 7 times more expensive than selling to your original.

If you walk through a good customers home and she says to you I'm having my Amtico floor cleaned and sealed next week by Competent cleaners would you be pleased?they may steal your customer!

The Yanks call it leaving money on the table.

Shaun
Thats spot on, im a tiler by trade and the amount of times people asked me do you clean tiles, stone floors etc when i was already working in there house and gained there trust...so thats why i decided to get into carpet and hardfloor cleaning....the amount of work i have turned away over the years i cant believe but now i want it all  ;D
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: JandS on January 09, 2009, 09:42:53 am
Mike

Periodically = occurring at regular intervals
Almost like frequently really when the occurrence is when I clean carpets somewhere.

John      ;D
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: daysdeepclean on January 09, 2009, 11:15:09 am
You really do have to take the bull by the horns sometimes and look outside of the box! I was always asked if I cleaned ovens as well, that's when I decided to set up that side of business on top of C/Cing.

If I get any more calls about patio cleaning, I'll probably start doing that too in the summer...

I won't go too silly though and try and bite off more than I can chew... I get quite a lot of phone calls asking if I valet cars, I refer them to a local firm and I have no intentions of adding that to my list of services!

I'm used to variety when it comes to work due to my past emloyment, so it suits me, and if I get inundated, I'll employ someone!!!!
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: JandS on January 09, 2009, 01:35:13 pm
Going to add leather car upholstery to my repetoire, on a we come to you basis i.e. at your place of work, golf club etc..
March am going to add patio cleaning, just bought a decent pressure washer.
Thinking around the £2 mark a sq m plus sand.
Thoughts!!!!!!!!!

John
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: Mike Halliday on January 09, 2009, 01:52:25 pm
John a few tips about pressure washing;
 
buy a turbo-lance, don't bother with a FSC.

work on an hourly rate rather than a price per metre.

wear safety glasses that look like Oakley sunglasses (but clear) a lot better than the cheap once that have a bit of elastic round your head.

adapt your machine to accept direct feed if the flow is high enough ( rather than suck out of the container.)

use a 3500psi 13hp machine
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: Ian Gourlay on January 09, 2009, 04:22:37 pm
This week I cleaned a housefull of Carpets and Jims Cleaners had been in


Look at Jim Mowers Web  Site see how many diffrent services they do.

My advise to anyone who has a job is to work as hard as you can in that job and advance yourself within the company. Make that your goal  do not be diverted

When Economy is straight think about Self employment.

In the last down turn  succesfl people ended up having t sleep in Friends Sheds  until they could find some where.

 
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: Doctor Carpet (Ret'd) on January 09, 2009, 05:56:44 pm
As the years have gone by I have discontinued a lot of my services. I've dropped:

general cleaning
pressure hose cleaning
curtains
hard floors

Now I just do carpets and upholstery with a bit of leather cleaning thrown in as and when.
When I get old enough I'll probably drop the upholstery and just do carpets.
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: JandS on January 09, 2009, 06:11:07 pm
Thanks for the tips Mike.
Why the hourly rate?
Thought it would be easier, to start with, to go on area rather than guessing how long it might take.

Ian.

Presume you are saying Jim's made a crap job of it and the owners called you in to rectify this.
I presume Jim's offers a lot of unrelated services and your implying that because he diversifys so much he tends to do mediocre work all round.
If that is what you are saying I think your wrong there, Jim's made a crap job of it because Jim's crap.
Unless of course Jim employs others to do the work, in that case it's his training programme that's at fault.

Offering a wide range of services doesn't always equate to poor standards and I, personally, find it enjoyable doing something different every day.

My friend's seen a fully qualified plumber and electrician for 25 years now and he loves going from one to the other.
To a certain extent, as well, he can cherry pick his work as he always has plenty on.
Oh and he's good at both.

Just my thoughts.

John



 


Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: Mike Halliday on January 09, 2009, 06:23:20 pm
John I suggest an hourly rate because with P/W the size isn't the thing that decides the price of the job

I'd say the drainage is just as important, if the water just sits there you'll spend as much time getting rid of it as it took to do the actual cleaning.

a low flow rate coming out of the tap can add 40% more time to the job, you constantly stop & start to allow the water to catch up.

I now look at the job work out how long it will take, then get my price that way.
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: daysdeepclean on January 09, 2009, 07:53:12 pm
I couldn't agree more John....

Variety is the spice of life....
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: JandS on January 09, 2009, 08:30:11 pm
Done 7 all for friends or family plus my own and I measured them up as if I was going to charge them £2 per sq m which I wasn't.
Didn't have any problems at all with the drainage at any of them nor with the water flow.
Live in a heavily built area so maybe water flow isn't a problem round here.
I averaged out at 14 sq m an hour which is where I plucked the £2 per hour figure from.

Many thanks for your time and input by the way.

You tried doing leather vehicle upholstery? I'm still trying to find a mate whose got it to practice on to get a time scale worked out for pricing the job up.

Thank you.

John
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: derek west on January 09, 2009, 08:38:35 pm
to clean leather in a car, 2 front seats and a back. 1 to 2 hours for a standard clean depending on heavy soil or not, so i'd charge between £50 and £80 quid.
unless it was a lamboghini then i'd clean it for free, "yes sir, i'll need the keys leaving in it so i can turn it round to do the other side" ;D
derek
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: Doctor Carpet (Ret'd) on January 09, 2009, 10:35:23 pm
Mike you are so right.

Apart from getting bored doing it flow rate and drainage are the key problems to achieving a quick result-that and cleaning down paintwork/windows etc if any of the off-dirt bounces up and dirties the house and its environment.
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: JandS on January 10, 2009, 03:12:34 pm
Derek cheers for that.
 
I was thinking that maybe an hour at the most.
Figure I had in mind was £45.

John
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: derek west on January 10, 2009, 03:23:44 pm
from what ive been told john, its usually repairs that get the most work, but i could be wrong,
where the driver gets in and out of his seat it either scuffs and needs colouring or rips, that when they call us guys in, but i'm sure theres some rich end clients who have them cleaned reguarly, i'm doing my restoration course in february, 4 days in leeds. looking forward to adding another string to me bow.
derek
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: JandS on January 12, 2009, 04:59:01 pm
What's the address in Leeds Derek.

John
Title: Re: Alternative income
Post by: derek west on January 12, 2009, 07:10:46 pm
http://www.lttsolutions.net/index.asp
10th to the 13th of feb is when i'm booking for.
derek