Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Brendan B on January 01, 2009, 03:58:08 pm
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Hi folks,
I am looking at buying a cfr 400 and was wondering if anyone has had any experience with one, with the water getting recycled up to 7 times surely that has to be a great help or is it?
I will be selling myself on `Green`and i think the cfr would be a good selling point on reusing the water over and over.
The other machine I have in mind is the perfect heat, just got a mail from them guys bout week ago and they are doing a good offer on it at the min, again would anyone have any experience with this machine?
Cheers
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brendan, Im on my 2nd cfr 400 and i think its a great machine especially if you go for the one with heater on it.
If you are new to the cfr machines though the recycling bit takes alittle time to get your head round.
If a good bulk of your work is commercial though, the filters will block quickly and i would opt for a different machine, however it will go on all day on residential before having to clean filters.
I also have a cfr perfect heat 500 which is a good machine as it has the twin vacuums but the filters block quicker and the machine is bigger and more cumbersome.
will sell my 500 machine as soon as i can be bothered to ebay it! looking for £600 machine only
regards
stu
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Thanks for your reply!
Yeah im really considering the CFR, even though ive never used one im just getting good fed back about them. What I would like to do is try a rotovac on one for domestic jobs, get the job done alot quicker and easier overall impressing the cust from the word go.
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brendan, the cfr 400 is really designed to be used with cfr equipment ie roller/glide/wonder wand, (airflow) I think that the 1 vacuum motor on the 400 would not be enough to achieve a satisfactory result with the rotovac (not enough suck) hense wet carpets and unhappy customers
stu
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I would agree with Stu, and would only use cfr tools for the 400 because of the lack of vacuum power. Apart from that they are not a bad little machine, especially for upholstery.
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The Perfect Heat with twin vac motors should be ok with rotovac, but the Wonderwand with CFR is a great combination IMO.
I used to have the CFR500 Pro .
One of the previous posters was selling a perfect heat - worth having a chat with him if thats the way you want to go.
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brendon, hi! i have both the CFR pro-500 p/h & the 400 with port-a-heat, strongly recomend the wonder wand & cfr tools & cfr cleaning products... both machines are extremely good in there productivity, drying times are quicker, plus no continued dumping & refilling... i mostly use the 400 machine, the 500 i use as a back up or for larger jobs.... make sure though that if you get a cfr system, you'll need to keep the main filter pristinly clean, wax on carpets can block the filter, so you'll need to remove & flush separatly... the 400 is well adequate for any job, the single vac has no bearing on the quality of performance, because of the way that it is designed to work with the wand & tools... would not recommend using a rotovac with this system though... regards charlie
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Sounds like a lot of messing about to me cleaning filters.
John
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Thats the way it has to be John, with the CFR.
Constant Flow Recycling - uses the same water over again, so filter cleanliness is imperative.
Not such a big deal on vast majority of domestics.
Problem when you get to filthy dirty pub type carpets.
Depends what your market is.
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all carpet cleaning systems need a certain amount of cleaning & maintainance for them to run smoothly! regards charlie... ;D
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Doesn't this degrade the integrity of the chemicals?
Regards
John
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there are "special" fluids available from Amtech and CFR suppliers.
With me, mostly it was in the prespray and agitation, then rinse with plain water.
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joe, hi mate! additional; with the cfr system to maintain the purity of its workings, the product defoam "thats cfr's defoam" not only manages the foam build up in the tank, but it also relines & lubricates the inside of the system... of all the products that crf & one step produce, its defoam that i use the most... regards charlie ;D
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joe, i was very impressed with your van & the warp on it.. i think that with my next van, i'll got down that route... all the best charlie ;D
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Rinse with plain water?
Heard about it on here before does it really work?
Regards
John
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yep! ;)
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john
i thought it strange to rinse with plain water, but thought about it and don't see why not.
imagine your hands are filthy, you pre spray with what will get the soil loose, i.e. fairy liguid or swarfeega, then u agitate and rinse under the tap.
i still don't rinse with plain water because i like to neutralise the alcali with an acidic,(rightly orwrongly thats how i was taught) but thought other than that, why not?
derek
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Only rinse with plain tap water if your pre-spray is designed for this. For conventional detergents, a plain water rinse will probably remove most of the soil but not the invisible-to-the-eye pre-spray detergent. Residual problems could follow.
Safe and happy cleaning :)
Ken
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Good way of putting it Derek but:
9 months ago I did 2 office carpets and extracted with Crystal Green, not bad results on LP carpet and Office Manager was pleased enough as she authorised payment.
Went back 7 weeks later to do more work for them and by this time I had discovered Double Clean.
Did hallways and stairs and they came up beautiful.
My point is that if one chemical makes so much difference over another mixed with water then plain water isn't going to have any impact at all.
Or am I missing something?
Just curious.
Regards
John
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Its the cleaning fluids that the manufacturers design to be used as a prespray and are not high ph that can be rinsed using plain water.
If you prespray with high ph then it would be wise to use an acid rinse like Prochem fibre & fabric rinse or Hydramaster Clear Water rinse.
I have now started to use the latter, because it is good for descaling the TM inward parts as it passes thro the system, and it only needs a weak solution. But I dont always add CWR, depends on what prespray I used.
MS, M-Power and Nemesis are ok just as plain water rinse, and I use them sometimes, as I do Liquid Woolsafe.
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Try NOT rinsing your clothes after washing and you might be surprised at the difference,
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I also have a cfr perfect heat 500 which is a good machine as it has the twin vacuums but the filters block quicker and the machine is bigger and more cumbersome.
will sell my 500 machine as soon as i can be bothered to ebay it! looking for £600 machine only
I have a 400 and it is great, would be interested in the 500 Stu... any give on the price as I have a fair old jaunt to come and pick it up? (£500 cash on collection any good?)
Andy
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I have a 400 that i bought very cheap and did a refurb on it the machine does a good job but two points that make me dislike this type of machine are if you spray your wand into a clear container after using for even a short while the fluid looks dirty so thats going back into the carpet also if you prespray your carpet and add acid rince to the tank how does that get rid of the prespray, i know the acid will change the prespray but does it stop it becoming sticky residue on the carpet then causing prem resoiling.
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Rob
The chemistry used in CFR recycling machines is well tested and used, and residual problems from an acid rinse isn't an issue.
As for discoloured water from the wand, yes it does happen but is not a problem. You get the same at sewerage works and I've seen people on TV drink it :o
I was cleaning the filters in our dishwasher a few days ago, and it made me think of the CFR. The cleaning cycle uses a detergent, just like our prespray. The rinse cycle uses a rinse aid, just like we do. But for conventional rinse/extract it is a total loss operation, just like in a shower. But for CFR and our dishwashers, the same rinse is used several times. We don't have a problem with eating our food from plates that have been rinsed with filtered recycled water, so why the problem with cleaning carpets? We even bath and wash our "delicate bits" in standing dirty water and we don't have a problem with that either. In all of these cases, the technology and practicalities are proven, it's just a case of us having the confidence to accept a different method to that we are familiar with.
Safe and happy cleaning :)
Ken
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I look at it as if you were mopping a hard floor, you would start with clean mop and bucket of clean water+ dertergent, start mopping floor, when mop gets dirty you plunge mop in water which is now contamitated and start again, you continue this theoretically cleaning with dirty water untill floor area finished.
We dont have a problem with that do we? so why with the cfr, as long as the filters are still doing their job it works and it works well!
However i think the cfr works at its best without using detergents/ acid rinses but microsplitters/colloids and fresh water rinse.
stu
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Thanks ken and stu you both make good points will try micro spliters,do they wook well with heat as im looking to upgrade to prowler later this year.
Thanks rob
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Hi rob
Sounds like your getting into it as i saw your poston the other section.
Good luck mate :)
Clinton
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Guys the feedback has been 100%
One thing i have on my mind is with the cfr 400 having the single vac how can it perform as good as the perfect heat or similar machines, surley one of the things you look for in a machine is the vacs. It might clean the same if not better but with the over all job with the better vacs the job would be completed alot quicker by being dryer quicker.
cheers again
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Brendan
From speaking to respected colleagues who own CFR 400's, there's no problem with single vacs. The only limitation is not on performance, either rinse or extract, but the length of hose. I'm led to believe that it's advised a max of 70 ft for a single vac machine and about 130ft for a twin vac, but I stand to be corrected. 70 ft is plenty for any portable, I rarely use more than 75ft with my van mounted potty.
I gather that with CFR, the wand came first. It performed exceptionally well. But on a portable the water consumption was too great. So they designed the CFR around the wand. At the recommended hose lengths on the 400, the extraction is barely improved, if at all, with a twin vac. They even have models that run at 700 and 1000psi on single vacs :o I've heard of a couple of cases where a vac went down on the 500psi model. It was disconnected on site and run as a single with no difference in drying! I was told that the twin vac is in the UK for marketing rather than performance reasons (ie us Brits can't get our heads around it) In the States, our twin vac CFR is sold as a single vac with a bigger pump (700psi) which they say is a better. performer.
Safe and happy cleaning :)
Ken
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Brendan
Just another advantage of having two vacs is if one goes down in the middle of a job least you have another to finish the job :)
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brendan, Im on my 2nd cfr 400 and i think its a great machine especially if you go for the one with heater on it.
If you are new to the cfr machines though the recycling bit takes alittle time to get your head round.
If a good bulk of your work is commercial though, the filters will block quickly and i would opt for a different machine, however it will go on all day on residential before having to clean filters.
I also have a cfr perfect heat 500 which is a good machine as it has the twin vacuums but the filters block quicker and the machine is bigger and more cumbersome.
will sell my 500 machine as soon as i can be bothered to ebay it! looking for £600 machine only
regards
stu
Hi Stu
I might be interested in the machine you have for sale, can you email me at bbreennew@hotmail.com
Cheers.