Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Kevin R on December 29, 2008, 11:56:56 pm
-
What do you guys think of this?
windowcleaningbusinesscoach.com/coach (http://windowcleaningbusinesscoach.com/coach)
I bought his book and thought it was ok - based of guerilla marketing / Piranha marketing but a bit more focused to the window cleaning market. He now is selling a monthly marketing tutorial on subscription but its a bit pricey in my opinion when marketing books are so cheap in the local book store or on Amazon.
However I would be interested in any opinions especially from anyone who has read his book and maybe has even subscribed.
-
i am replying now but going to bed in a minute. but in answer i am not convinced ::) its on all the forums but no one will actually give any examples on what it can achieve that isnt commen sence marketing. ive read a bit on it but so far no one has said yes i put this idea into practice and landed this much work£££££ from what ive read the comments are all its great, makes sence, brilliant, good reading, i will put it in practice next year etc: but as i say untill someone gives examples of how great it is i will save my money.
-
What do you guys think of this?
windowcleaningbusinesscoach.com/coach (http://windowcleaningbusinesscoach.com/coach)
I bought his book and thought it was ok - based of guerilla marketing / Piranha marketing but a bit more focused to the window cleaning market. He now is selling a monthly marketing tutorial on subscription but its a bit pricey in my opinion when marketing books are so cheap in the local book store or on Amazon.
However I would be interested in any opinions especially from anyone who has read his book and maybe has even subscribed.
Interesting .....
-
Don't waste your money, everything that he will tell you, you can find free of charge on here.
For example he put out flyers which cost him $36 and got a return of $1100, well I have put out leafets which cost me £30 and I got a return of £3000, the only reason I got this amount of work is simple, there was no other cleaner in the area and I was the 1st to canvass.
The secret to any form of advertising is to kept it simple.
-
I see no need to buy his stuff but I like his "can-do" attitude.
-
Don't waste your money, everything that he will tell you, you can find free of charge on here.
For example he put out flyers which cost him $36 and got a return of $1100, well I have put out leafets which cost me £30 and I got a return of £3000, the only reason I got this amount of work is simple, there was no other cleaner in the area and I was the 1st to canvass.
The secret to any form of advertising is to kept it simple.
I think you will find that he put out 34flyers and got $1100 worth of work.
That sounds like a good return to me.
as with all flyers, its all luck, you can put out 34000 and get 1100 of work
-
That's true Matt, but there comes a point where the law of averages takes over so that if you put out less than 50 it can be pot luck but 5000 brings in something measurable.
But this guy was attaching dollar coins to his quotes to make them memorable.
And his point was at least he did something - which I found refreshing ...
If I traipse around the nearest industrial/housing estate on a rainy half day instead of watching Judge Judy and Jeremy Kyle then that's likely to be more productive.
Even if I got no-one that day I start to learn what is productive and what is not.
-
Hey fellow WC guys!
Yeah, I hear your skepticism, and I respect your opinions.
After all, with few exceptions, I don't think that I've had the pleasure of your acquaintance yet.
MrH, Karlos, and Duke all know me, though, and can vouch that I'm a real person!
If it's any help to you, here's some genuine info on what you're talking about:
I did indeed put out only 34 fliers and I got $1100+ in work, in an area that is solicited heavily, and for work at a high price point (not cheap, low hourly rate stuff).
As far as the competition comment, unfortunately, I work/live in Toronto, Canada.
It's a big city, but I have about 450 local professional competitors, and counting, not to mention the 'little guys' that will clean windows for a pint.
As far as 'proof' that my marketing advice will work for your window cleaning company, please implement some of my free advice, and see the difference it can make.
It would be foolish for me stand on this side of the pond and shout about how great my stuff is. It's much better for you to dip your finger in and taste the pudding for yourself.
For instance, here's piece of free marketing advice that might help, about how to turn your phone message into a powerful marketing tool:
http://windowcleaningbusinesscoach.com/coach/archives/25
I recorded that video about a year ago, and have heard from WC's all over the place about how its helped them secure more work from more prospects.
-
Hi WCBC - up late? Welcome aboard.
(Interesting collection of books on your bookshelf in that video BTW! ;))
-
as with all flyers, its all luck, you can put out 34000 and get 1100 of work
Is it?
Than what exactly is the marketing industry based on?
Smoke and mirrors?
Why did you buy the last 5 things you did?
Were the vendors/stores simply lucky to make their sale to you?
Or is it possible that they managed to mess with your mind and heart, motivating and manipulating you, Matt?
Please try not to dismiss the power of marketing.
Every one of us falls victim to it daily, and we don't mind it at all.
Figure out how we were worked over, and now you have some power to play with in your window cleaning business.
-
I just opened your link WCBC but the video gives me about 2 second segments and then starts buffering up again.
-
Don't waste your money, everything that he will tell you, you can find free of charge on here.
For example he put out flyers which cost him $36 and got a return of $1100, well I have put out leafets which cost me £30 and I got a return of £3000, the only reason I got this amount of work is simple, there was no other cleaner in the area and I was the 1st to canvass.
The secret to any form of advertising is to kept it simple.
All I have to say to this is WOW.
If your numbers are legit, here's what you're telling us:
Your £30 investment generated £3000 in WC business, right?
For the record, that is an ROI of 10,000%
That's like buying envelopes with £300 for a paltry £3 each.
If you could do that, how many envelopes would you buy?
If this is true, then you should be POURING as much money as you can find into this system you have going.
-
I just opened your link WCBC but the video gives me about 2 second segments and then starts buffering up again.
Sorry, its just Youtube.
Did you guys get this link today?
http://changethegamein2009.s3.amazonaws.com/index.htm
I think so. There's more info in that one, about how exactly you can harness the power of marketing into your window cleaning business building strategy.
Incidentally, this stuff only matters if you want to BUILD your business, or achieve a higher level of profitability.
k
P.S. I was down in Providence, Rhode Island, USA in Nov 2008, for a AUWC Regional Seminar, and I gave a 35 minute presentation on how to tap into the power of marketing with your window cleaning business.
Here's the secret link to a big chunk of that seminar presentation. Of course, you can watch it for free!
http://dossier-content.s3.amazonaws.com/index.htm
Should clear up a few more questions about the power of WC marketing.
-
Hi WCBC - up late? Welcome aboard.
(Interesting collection of books on your bookshelf in that video BTW! ;))
Thx Malc!
And yes, indeed, they are...
:)
-
Ecclesiates 11 v 6 "Sow your seed..."
-
as with all flyers, its all luck, you can put out 34000 and get 1100 of work
Is it?
Than what exactly is the marketing industry based on?
Smoke and mirrors?
Why did you buy the last 5 things you did?
Were the vendors/stores simply lucky to make their sale to you?
Or is it possible that they managed to mess with your mind and heart, motivating and manipulating you, Matt?
Please try not to dismiss the power of marketing.
Every one of us falls victim to it daily, and we don't mind it at all.
Figure out how we were worked over, and now you have some power to play with in your window cleaning business.
i know people who have put flyers out in the same area ( i live in that area and get them in my mail box ) they were put out inside the same 4 or 5 weeks, for the record they were all fairly nice flyers, all of equal quality ( non of the B&W printed stuff, all 3 were glossy )
now i speak to THREE of them, you would think the guy who put them out first got the most calls, he didnt, its luck, does the lady of the house see the flyer ( or the man, who normally bins it ) ? ? ? ? does it get put in the kitchen draw with the takeout menu's ? ?? ?, does it get picked up with the other post and that post contains a few others flyers for various things ? ?? they all end up in the bin ? ? ? ?
see what i mean about luck, a fair few variables, i am not knocking flyers at all, i am not even knocking you, ive read about you from karl ( i think it was ) i understand marketing works, just pointing out that putting flyers through doors can be hit and miss in the extreme
welcome aboard CIU by the way, im sure we will learn from you in 1 way or the other
-
Don't waste your money, everything that he will tell you, you can find free of charge on here.
For example he put out flyers which cost him $36 and got a return of $1100, well I have put out leafets which cost me £30 and I got a return of £3000, the only reason I got this amount of work is simple, there was no other cleaner in the area and I was the 1st to canvass.
The secret to any form of advertising is to kept it simple.
All I have to say to this is WOW.
If your numbers are legit, here's what you're telling us:
Your £30 investment generated £3000 in WC business, right?
For the record, that is an ROI of 10,000%
That's like buying envelopes with £300 for a paltry £3 each.
If you could do that, how many envelopes would you buy?
If this is true, then you should be POURING as much money as you can find into this system you have going.
I did folow it up with another advert which went out to 10000 homes and businesses, it cost almost £300 and I got 0 :(
Another example, every week I receive at least 10 flyers from 10 different pizza companys, all of them offer different freebies, yet in the last 2 years I have not responded to any of them, instead I carry on using my normal pizza company. Go figure?
Yes marketing does work, and with any type of leaflet drop, you will always have high peaks of sales with little outlay, the reverse is also true, what really counts is the overall results over a long period of time.
-
So Matt - the more you canvass, the "luckier" you get.
If I do an area once a month for three months (say) then on the first pass I might get one or two, on the next people will remember I called before and mentally clock that I might be reliable or serious about my business and I get one or two more. As I work the area I get one or two asking and by the third run more feel comfortable seeing me about and working and being trusted by their neighbours.
The key is persistency.
Look at Pingu (An Englishman in New York Amsterdam ;D) - he analyses his return on canvassing (in an OCD sort of way ;D) and it's obviously working.
-
Don't waste your money, everything that he will tell you, you can find free of charge on here.
For example he put out flyers which cost him $36 and got a return of $1100, well I have put out leafets which cost me £30 and I got a return of £3000, the only reason I got this amount of work is simple, there was no other cleaner in the area and I was the 1st to canvass.
The secret to any form of advertising is to kept it simple.
All I have to say to this is WOW.
If your numbers are legit, here's what you're telling us:
Your £30 investment generated £3000 in WC business, right?
For the record, that is an ROI of 10,000%
That's like buying envelopes with £300 for a paltry £3 each.
If you could do that, how many envelopes would you buy?
If this is true, then you should be POURING as much money as you can find into this system you have going.
I did folow it up with another advert which went out to 10000 homes and businesses, it cost almost £300 and I got 0 :(
Another example, every week I receive at least 10 flyers from 10 different pizza companys, all of them offer different freebies, yet in the last 2 years I have not responded to any of them, instead I carry on using my normal pizza company. Go figure?
Yes marketing does work, and with any type of leaflet drop, you will always have high peaks of sales with little outlay, the reverse is also true, what really counts is the overall results over a long period of time.
exactly. it can be completely random, but as we know, its a numbers game
-
The message in that video is to push your company and illustrate to the punter what more/what better/what else you offer compared to your competitors; I didnt hear any of that message which you suggest we push so far as you would like us to believe about you compared to your competitors.
-
So Matt - the more you canvass, the "luckier" you get.
If I do an area once a month for three months (say) then on the first pass I might get one or two, on the next people will remember I called before and mentally clock that I might be reliable or serious about my business and I get 1 or two more. As I work the area I get one or two asking and by the third run More feel comfortable seeing me about and working and being trusted by their neighbours.
The key is persistency.
Look at Pingu (An Englishman in New York Amsterdam ;D) - he analyses his return on canvassing (in an OCD sort of way ;D) and it's obviously working.
thats just been seen enough times so people accept you, its just a number game
-
i know people who have put flyers out in the same area ( i live in that area and get them in my mail box ) they were put out inside the same 4 or 5 weeks, for the record they were all fairly nice flyers, all of equal quality ( non of the B&W printed stuff, all 3 were glossy )
now i speak to THREE of them, you would think the guy who put them out first got the most calls, he didnt, its luck, does the lady of the house see the flyer ( or the man, who normally bins it ) ? ? ? ? does it get put in the kitchen draw with the takeout menu's ? ?? ?, does it get picked up with the other post and that post contains a few others flyers for various things ? ?? they all end up in the bin ? ? ? ?
see what i mean about luck, a fair few variables, i am not knocking flyers at all, i am not even knocking you, ive read about you from karl ( i think it was ) i understand marketing works, just pointing out that putting flyers through doors can be hit and miss in the extreme
welcome aboard CIU by the way, im sure we will learn from you in 1 way or the other
Ahh, I see that you are questioning the reliability of the delivery method, not the strategy.
For what its worth, I made special efforts to get my message (with this particular flier campaign under discussion) in front of these people by folding the flier and placing it inside a sealed, plain white envelope, with some handwritten teaser text in pen on the front, ensuring a very high open rate.
Delivery is important, you're bang on.
Which is all the more reason to make the most of each marketing opportunity, right?
Thx for the warm welcome, too, I appreciate that.
-
I did follow it up with another advert which went out to 10000 homes and businesses, it cost almost £300 and I got 0 :(
"Another" advert? Does that mean you changed it somehow?
What variables were changed?
Different neighbourhood? Different kind of people? Different anything?
Something is afoot with this...
-
The message in that video is to push your company and illustrate to the punter what more/what better/what else you offer compared to your competitors; I didnt hear any of that message which you suggest we push so far as you would like us to believe about you compared to your competitors.
Sorry, I don't completely understand what you are saying.
At no point during the message do you need to bring up the competition. In fact, do not bring up the competition!
The key is giving them something tangible and real and effective to chew on that will discourage them from using another competitor.
Try this: Put the shoe on the other foot for a minute.
Your basement is leaking, so you scramble to locate 3 numbers for local leaky basement repair companies.
You call the first and hear this message:
"Thx for calling Joe's Leaky Basement Specialists. Sorry we missed your call, your call is important to us, and we'll call you back as soon as possible."
You hang up the phone, pick it up again, and dial the next number, and hear this:
"Thx for calling Sam the Leaky Basement King. Sorry I missed your call, your call is important to me, and I promise to call you back within 1 business hour."
Better, right? Why? Marketing!
Lastly, you call the third number, and hear this:
"Thx for calling Bob's Wet Basement Repair. If you have a leaking basement emergency right now, please hang up and call XXX-XXXX and ask for Jill. It is very important that you act quickly, since the first few hours can be the most damaging and destructive to your property, and time is of the essence! The number again is XXX-XXXX, and rest assured that a trained representative from Bob's Wet Basement Repair will be dispatched as soon as Jill hears from you, and that all of our crews are fully equipped and insured. Relax, we're here to help, and guarantee that if anything can be salvaged, it will be! Hang up and call Jill now, at XXX-XXXX to get an emergency crew dispatched."
See what I mean?
Which of the 3 do you instantly feel you should trust? And please notice that price has not even been mentioned yet, or experience levels.
That's kind of an extreme example, but it illustrates the point.
-
it can be completely random, but as we know, its a numbers game
It doesn't have to be.
Test, tweak, repeat.
This formula always creates powerful pieces, and removes the random card.
-
The message in that video is to push your company and illustrate to the punter what more/what better/what else you offer compared to your competitors; I didnt hear any of that message which you suggest we push so far as you would like us to believe about you compared to your competitors.
Sorry, I don't completely understand what you are saying.
At no point during the message do you need to bring up the competition. In fact, do not bring up the competition!
The key is giving them something tangible and real and effective to chew on that will discourage them from using another competitor.
Try this: Put the shoe on the other foot for a minute.
Your basement is leaking, so you scramble to locate 3 numbers for local leaky basement repair companies.
You call the first and hear this message:
"Thx for calling Joe's Leaky Basement Specialists. Sorry we missed your call, your call is important to us, and we'll call you back as soon as possible."
You hang up the phone, pick it up again, and dial the next number, and hear this:
"Thx for calling Sam the Leaky Basement King. Sorry I missed your call, your call is important to me, and I promise to call you back within 1 business hour."
Better, right? Why? Marketing!
Lastly, you call the third number, and hear this:
"Thx for calling Bob's Wet Basement Repair. If you have a leaking basement emergency right now, please hang up and call XXX-XXXX and ask for Jill. It is very important that you act quickly, since the first few hours can be the most damaging and destructive to your property, and time is of the essence! The number again is XXX-XXXX, and rest assured that a trained representative from Bob's Wet Basement Repair will be dispatched as soon as Jill hears from you, and that all of our crews are fully equipped and insured. Relax, we're here to help, and guarantee that if anything can be salvaged, it will be! Hang up and call Jill now, at XXX-XXXX to get an emergency crew dispatched."
See what I mean?
Which of the 3 do you instantly feel you should trust? And please notice that price has not even been mentioned yet, or experience levels.
That's kind of an extreme example, but it illustrates the point.
Put it this way, your gonna have your work cut out with us lot ::)
By the way, Id trust 1 &2 the most! 3 nope....
-
kevin. wear can i buy your book have you got a link..
-
Check out his site at www.windowcleaningbusinesscoach.com
-
Put it this way, your gonna have your work cut out with us lot ::)
By the way, Id trust 1 &2 the most! 3 nope....
Why am I not surprised?
:)
And I like to work, for the record. And I think that it's valuable to air out these concerns about the validity of this marketing stuff creating revenue for YOUR window cleaning business.
I do notice, though, that there is almost a defense system that goes up about this subject, with UK window cleaners, and I'm not sure why.
Do you have any insights on that?
-
Charming, new identity by any chance?
-
His mate I thought ;D
-
Keep at it coach, some of us might be interested. But at the end of the day you're into sales which unfortunately means your trying to sell me something.
Personally i prefer Don The Windowcleaners common sense approach on youtube that costs me nothing at all.
I would imagine you pop up on other sites in different trades pushing the same message?
-
Coach, have you met Ewan? He is the Ambassador to the UK cleaning profession - a highly successful businessman with a fleet of vehicles at his disposal. The pinnacle of the windowcleaning business in Europe. I would advise you to make contact - you will learn a thing or two.
-
Coach, have you met Ewan? He is the Ambassador to the UK cleaning profession - a highly successful businessman with a fleet of vehicles at his disposal. The pinnacle of the windowcleaning business in Europe. I would advise you to make contact - you will learn a thing or two.
Agreed
I love Ewan's posts, he's the main man on here when it comes to business sucsess. Any input like this is most welcome here, just ignore the "plodders" I think your marketing strategy is spot on! If I was considering spending 10 quid a month on window cleans I would have picked option 3, very professional.
So, come on coach, teach us some more, yeah! ;)
Pro-clean europe
-
I did follow it up with another advert which went out to 10000 homes and businesses, it cost almost £300 and I got 0 :(
"Another" advert? Does that mean you changed it somehow?
What variables were changed?
Different neighbourhood? Different kind of people? Different anything?
Something is afoot with this...
Even "sherlock" would not see anythings "a foot" with my statement, the other advert was the same as the 1st ( why change something thats worked so well on the last advert) all that was different, was the response it generated.
Another example, when I first started in businesss I placed a free 1 line advert on yell.com for the 1st year of trading, this led me to telephone calls every month with enquires, the 2nd year, I paid for an bigger advert so I could be more noticable in the market place, at 1st the response was slow but at the end of the year it had produced more than enough business to make it worthwhile, the next year I paid even more money for any even bigger market placement, the results are terrible so far.
Any form of marketing has high and low reponses but at the end they all seem to balance out the same.
We over this side of the "pond" are more likely to questions someone motives, that they have all the answers, to making us all so sucessful and rich, for instance you say that by processes that you have learn over the years, you can produce more business though your markerting techinques, if this is the case why are you not making "zillions" as a window cleaner "baron" instead, you have become a marketing "guru" instead.
You state that you want to help all of us reach these goals that you have achieved, if thats the case why not post all of these methods "free of charge" onto a open window cleaning forum or trade publication, if on the other hand you want to sell us a "product" in your new career, then be more up-front about it.
-
Put it this way, your gonna have your work cut out with us lot ::)
By the way, Id trust 1 &2 the most! 3 nope....
Why am I not surprised?
:)
And I like to work, for the record. And I think that it's valuable to air out these concerns about the validity of this marketing stuff creating revenue for YOUR window cleaning business.
I do notice, though, that there is almost a defense system that goes up about this subject, with UK window cleaners, and I'm not sure why.
Do you have any insights on that?
There are a few on here who think there level of window cleaning is the pinnacle, there not spoke’s men for the window cleaning in UK or even cleanitup.
There are also a few who wouldn’t even qualify as professional window cleaners. Any thing beyond there level is often put down or ridiculed, because that is all they understand.
Welcome to CIU, keep posting as there are plenty of people on here who would welcome different and refreshing input. Either established professional or people still building there business.
another cheap shot at the good people of CIU ::) ::) as you blatantly think so little of the members on here, here is a idea, find somewhere that is up to your ever so high level of intelligence ** ::) ::) which of course makes you such a success ::) ::)
** this is sarcastic
-
I did follow it up with another advert which went out to 10000 homes and businesses, it cost almost £300 and I got 0 :(
"Another" advert? Does that mean you changed it somehow?
What variables were changed?
Different neighbourhood? Different kind of people? Different anything?
Something is afoot with this...
Even "sherlock" would not see anythings "a foot" with my statement, the other advert was the same as the 1st ( why change something thats worked so well on the last advert) all that was different, was the response it generated.
Another example, when I first started in businesss I placed a free 1 line advert on yell.com for the 1st year of trading, this led me to telephone calls every month with enquires, the 2nd year, I paid for an bigger advert so I could be more noticable in the market place, at 1st the response was slow but at the end of the year it had produced more than enough business to make it worthwhile, the next year I paid even more money for any even bigger market placement, the results are terrible so far.
Any form of marketing has high and low reponses but at the end they all seem to balance out the same.
We over this side of the "pond" are more likely to questions someone motives, that they have all the answers, to making us all so sucessful and rich, for instance you say that by processes that you have learn over the years, you can produce more business though your markerting techinques, if this is the case why are you not making "zillions" as a window cleaner "baron" instead, you have become a marketing "guru" instead.
You state that you want to help all of us reach these goals that you have achieved, if thats the case why not post all of these methods "free of charge" onto a open window cleaning forum or trade publication, if on the other hand you want to sell us a "product" in your new career, then be more up-front about it.
Good post
I think what some people miss is the HUGE difference between us (window cleaners) & other (skilled) trades.
If i looked at yell.com & seen your BIG fancy advert against more normal/small/conservative ones I would dismiss yours right away (coming from a small business/domestic point of view)
Why? It reaks of expense ;) i only want my windows cleaned!
However, if I was looking for a contractor to build me a new 8k conservatory, the opposite would apply. ;)
Make any sense?
Tony
-
I did follow it up with another advert which went out to 10000 homes and businesses, it cost almost £300 and I got 0 :(
"Another" advert? Does that mean you changed it somehow?
What variables were changed?
Different neighbourhood? Different kind of people? Different anything?
Something is afoot with this...
Even "sherlock" would not see anythings "a foot" with my statement, the other advert was the same as the 1st ( why change something thats worked so well on the last advert) all that was different, was the response it generated.
Another example, when I first started in businesss I placed a free 1 line advert on yell.com for the 1st year of trading, this led me to telephone calls every month with enquires, the 2nd year, I paid for an bigger advert so I could be more noticable in the market place, at 1st the response was slow but at the end of the year it had produced more than enough business to make it worthwhile, the next year I paid even more money for any even bigger market placement, the results are terrible so far.
Any form of marketing has high and low reponses but at the end they all seem to balance out the same.
We over this side of the "pond" are more likely to questions someone motives, that they have all the answers, to making us all so sucessful and rich, for instance you say that by processes that you have learn over the years, you can produce more business though your markerting techinques, if this is the case why are you not making "zillions" as a window cleaner "baron" instead, you have become a marketing "guru" instead.
You state that you want to help all of us reach these goals that you have achieved, if thats the case why not post all of these methods "free of charge" onto a open window cleaning forum or trade publication, if on the other hand you want to sell us a "product" in your new career, then be more up-front about it.
Your answer should have been,
"Yes the variable was the location"
If you had said no variable, same area, they something would have been "afoot"
Obviously you didn't think that a different area would need a different aproch.
It does, thats the type of thing you need to learn.
I have found out 2types of advertising that works.
The 1st one is domestic customers don't want to baffled by too much information, all you need is an advert worded quite simply "Do you want a Window Cleaner" works great, always put your landline as well as your mobile number down, this gives them the impression that you are not a "fly by night merchant".
The 2nd are commercial customers, with them they like a lot more information, your company details and profile help, as well as what services you do and that you are aware of curent H&S and other laws that most businesses need to comply with, that you can cope with all of their requirements is essential.
Marketing your company in the right way is not rocket science.
-
what you are doing obviously works for you and i agree with your last post.... but other people have had the same or more success with other types of marketing... surely the intelligent thing to do is listen and maybe try parts that you feel could work..
-
There nothing wrong with listening, thats what this forum is all about (learning from others who have already done it and are sucessful) but if someone is selling you the same information that is freely available or common sense because that want to help you is another matter.
-
If you are running substantial window cleaning business, I will shut up and listen more.
And vice versa ;)
-
If you are running substantial window cleaning business, I will shut up and listen more.
And vice versa ;)
Lots of posting today Tony my my she really has kicked you up the other end of the room hasn`t she. ;D
-
Put it this way, your gonna have your work cut out with us lot ::)
By the way, Id trust 1 &2 the most! 3 nope....
i agree
another cheap shot at the good people of CIU ::) ::) as you blatantly think so little of the members on here, here is a idea, find somewhere that is up to your ever so high level of intelligence ** ::) ::) which of course makes you such a success ::) ::)
** this is sarcastic
It’s not a cheap shot, there are varying types of window cleaner all with different capabilities and resources and there will be a point when you are classed as professional.
Just because you are unable to differentiate that, doesn’t mean others can’t.
I could act dumb and agree with your posts, otherwise explain to me and other’s what your credentials are?
If you are running substantial window cleaning business, I will shut up and listen more.
Or if there is any other reason I have missed please let me know?
i agree
-
If you are running substantial window cleaning business, I will shut up and listen more.
And vice versa ;)
Lots of posting today Tony my my she really has kicked you up the other end of the room hasn`t she. ;D
;D ;D ;D
Yeah, she's had me at home for over a week!! That's why i'm extra bad :D
Tony
-
Im thinking the Trolls dropped a sprog ;D
-
Keep at it coach, some of us might be interested. But at the end of the day you're into sales which unfortunately means your trying to sell me something.
Personally i prefer Don The Windowcleaners common sense approach on youtube that costs me nothing at all.
I would imagine you pop up on other sites in different trades pushing the same message?
Yes, I am definitely selling my book and my dossier subscription for $$, no question.
I also have filled a blog with almost 60 informative window cleaning marketing posts, videos, downloads, recorded live broadcasts, and it's all 100% free.
You don't need to give me any of your $$ to benefit from what I'm saying in any of these places, or even right here, right now.
This post is FREE!
As far as the Don The Window Cleaner reference, Don is as hard-working a man as they come, and I respect his generosity in doling out advice freely.
If you'd like to be in Don's shoes when you're his age, still working full-time in your window cleaning company, then he's your man.
You would have no interest in what I'm trying to help you understand.
k
P.S. Oh - I don't actually help any other industry understand how to implement this proven marketing intelligence, just our window cleaning industry.
-
There are a few on here who think there level of window cleaning is the pinnacle, there not spoke’s men for the window cleaning in UK or even cleanitup.
Thx Ewan.
The truth is, almost every single small business owner is obsessed with this lie.
Every one of them seems to think that it comes down to being awesome at their stuff, whether it's grass cutting, hairdressing, drywalling, or window cleaning, and that once people find out how awesome they are, their phone will ring off the hook.
I get it, though. After all, my window cleaning company is called Paneless Perfection, so quality of workmanship is high on my list of priorities, but it is no longer in the top 5.
At the end of the day, almost no one cares about the stuff they have being the absolute best.
We pay big bucks for average food at fancy restaurants.
We pay big bucks for fancy cars that constantly need maintenance.
We pay big bucks for fancy clothes that turn ratty in a few months.
Quality of product is not the big thing in these purchasing decisions.
Same goes with window cleaning.
-
We over this side of the "pond" are more likely to questions someone motives, that they have all the answers, to making us all so sucessful and rich, for instance you say that by processes that you have learn over the years, you can produce more business though your markerting techinques, if this is the case why are you not making "zillions" as a window cleaner "baron" instead, you have become a marketing "guru" instead.
You state that you want to help all of us reach these goals that you have achieved, if thats the case why not post all of these methods "free of charge" onto a open window cleaning forum or trade publication, if on the other hand you want to sell us a "product" in your new career, then be more up-front about it.
Guess I ticked you off a bit!
Reason number one why I would rather teach than run my window cleaning business for the next 10 years: I hate winter, and I'd like to be able to live somewhere tropical while still working. Seemed like a nice opportunity, since no one seems to have a clear hold on this window cleaning marketing game, and almost no one is doing things right. And before you take issue with this last statement, I do not presumptuously have the right to determine right from wrong, when it comes to marketing, history and testing establish that.
Reason number 2: I enjoy this teaching stuff, it feels natural for me.
After all these posts, and links, if you are surprised that I'm also selling stuff, then I apologize for not laying it out more clearly for you.
And over a years worth of videos, downloads, recorded broadcasts, and even WC seminar recordings are available absolutely free for you to benefit from.
My little window cleaning business has achieved some pretty cool little profit feats, but instead of going on about that, its more valuable for you to weigh the validity of my advice through application.
Try something I recommend, and you'll find out for yourself.
No one's putting a gun to your head. Don't try my paid stuff if you you wish not to, fair enough.
k
P.S. Please also note that nowhere have I used the word "rich". I don't wish that any of you guys become rich, since that will require the largest amount of time.
I would suggest that you instead become "time-rich", and work as little as possible on your window cleaning business, so that you can spend as much free time as possible on the things and people you love - the things that you get out of bed for in the morning.
-
So for the guys who have more than enough work, they get to choose the work they want to do and have no need to take on everything that comes their way, they are in a position to discard that which they would prefer not to worry about, they're able to pick and choose their hourly rate (which might be somewhere around 3x the national average), love their work, gain satisfaction from achieving that which they couldn't elsewhere and love the thrill of all these things combined; what would you as a salesman be able to offer this person?
-
So for the guys who have more than enough work, they get to choose the work they want to do and have no need to take on everything that comes their way, they are in a position to discard that which they would prefer not to worry about, they're able to pick and choose their hourly rate (which might be somewhere around 3x the national average), love their work, gain satisfaction from achieving that which they couldn't elsewhere and love the thrill of all these things combined; what would you as a salesman be able to offer this person?
Squat!
If you don't care about rapid, profitable WC revenue growth, then tune me out.
Otherwise, turn up the speakers.
-
Although, i would still like to have a long talk with them about pricing, and how they can get away with charging even more...
I'm quite serious.
-
Im asking you, what can you offer? Your meant to be a salesman, right?
Not should I turn the speakers up or not.
-
Im asking you, what can you offer? Your meant to be a salesman, right?
Not should I turn the speakers up or not.
I believe my answer was SQUAT. (please see the word "squat" above)
If you have no interest in growth, I have nothing to offer you.
Am I missing something here?
Are we supposed to fight?
:)
-
It has dawned on me that maybe you don't know the usage of this word "squat" so please allow me to replace it with the following selection of synonyms:
nada.
zip.
zero.
zilch.
-
Okie dokie.
Have a great new year.
;)
-
If you have no interest in growth, I have nothing to offer you.
As he says if you don't want to grow your business don't listen or spend your physically hard earned £££'s. Just keep on cleaning them windows!!! ;)
Kev, have you bought the online book yet? I have had a read through the freebie bits and im tempted to give it a go. I like all the sales and marketing books, i have loads and i always get a few things out of hundreds of pages.
Happy New Year to all.
-
as with all flyers, its all luck, you can put out 34000 and get 1100 of work
Is it?
Than what exactly is the marketing industry based on?
Smoke and mirrors?
Why did you buy the last 5 things you did?
Were the vendors/stores simply lucky to make their sale to you?
Or is it possible that they managed to mess with your mind and heart, motivating and manipulating you, Matt?
Please try not to dismiss the power of marketing.
Every one of us falls victim to it daily, and we don't mind it at all.
Figure out how we were worked over, and now you have some power to play with in your window cleaning business.
Well I can't speak for Matt but my last five purchases were based on low price alone. However, I'm just talking about foodstuffs. As far as the hair clippers go, I went for a brand that I know the pros use so I went for longevity/quality. I went for the watch for an Xmas prezzie because that was what my g/f wanted (haven't asked her what her decision was based upon). I went for the one day (paid) marketing course because I believe that the company who provided it are good marketers and I thought I would pick up some good advice (I did - although only some of it was new to me). The other items were based on (a) trust of the seller and (b) I already knew the product was good because I had previously bought one. As far as some other purchases were concerned, I wasn't convinced that I was buying the best and I know I wasn't buying the cheapest but I did know there was a decent aftersales structure in place. So, if you discount price (which I didn't use as a factor for the small ticket items), there is a whole raft of different reasons in there. I haven't read your book. I can't hear your video either (no sound on this computer) but I would be surprised if my reasons weren't part of your advice.
I used to think marketing was unimportant. I don't think that now. However, I don't have the funds to market the way I would like to so I have to make the best of what I've got.
I do think that marketing from the other side of the pond doesn't always transfer very well into UK culture though but I pick out what I think will work and I put the rest on the shelf. I never discard it totally as there may be a use for it one day.
One thing that marketing from West of the pond overlooks IMO is simplicity. I think this is where there may be a cultural divide. I can't say specifically about Canada but I feel that USA sales and marketing seriously over complicates things usually.
-
It has dawned on me that maybe you don't know the usage of this word "squat" so please allow me to replace it with the following selection of synonyms:
nada.
zip.
zero.
zilch.
When that term is used in the UK, for some reason the word "diddly" is prefixed (diidly squat) ;D . Don't ask me why though because I've no idea.
-
Put it this way, your gonna have your work cut out with us lot ::)
By the way, Id trust 1 &2 the most! 3 nope....
Why am I not surprised?
:)
And I like to work, for the record. And I think that it's valuable to air out these concerns about the validity of this marketing stuff creating revenue for YOUR window cleaning business.
I do notice, though, that there is almost a defense system that goes up about this subject, with UK window cleaners, and I'm not sure why.
Do you have any insights on that?
I believe that many Brits have an inherent mistrust of things that they prceive as being overly American because it can be a bit OTT. Yes I know we are talking about Canada but from this side of the pond, not many appreciate the difference. Good marketing speaks to the subconcious IMO - though sometimes a more direct approach is better. People are different. Marketing strategy that works for one may not work for another IMO. It's about finding the right buttons for an individual AND about finding what works for MOST people too (IMO of course). I'm not a trained marketer (does it show? ;D ) but by knowing myself, I can be a better marketer.
-
Just had a listen to a couple of videos (the cockroach one and the dollar in the envelope one) the techniques are already out there like a free biro in the envelope, that kind of thing. He goes on to talk about a six percent return on thirty four houses. Nothing new there i've had 50% return before ( i only targeted two houses!).
Offering free cleans? good job he didn't offer them on the two houses that netted 1200 dollars!
Interesting? yes i'd say so - would i subscribe? The guy wants to take my money so for that reason i'm out. ;)
-
Well I can't speak for Matt but my last five purchases were based on low price alone. However, I'm just talking about foodstuffs. As far as the hair clippers go, I went for a brand that I know the pros use so I went for longevity/quality. I went for the watch for an Xmas prezzie because that was what my g/f wanted (haven't asked her what her decision was based upon). I went for the one day (paid) marketing course because I believe that the company who provided it are good marketers and I thought I would pick up some good advice (I did - although only some of it was new to me). The other items were based on (a) trust of the seller and (b) I already knew the product was good because I had previously bought one. As far as some other purchases were concerned, I wasn't convinced that I was buying the best and I know I wasn't buying the cheapest but I did know there was a decent aftersales structure in place. So, if you discount price (which I didn't use as a factor for the small ticket items), there is a whole raft of different reasons in there. I haven't read your book. I can't hear your video either (no sound on this computer) but I would be surprised if my reasons weren't part of your advice.
I used to think marketing was unimportant. I don't think that now. However, I don't have the funds to market the way I would like to so I have to make the best of what I've got.
I do think that marketing from the other side of the pond doesn't always transfer very well into UK culture though but I pick out what I think will work and I put the rest on the shelf. I never discard it totally as there may be a use for it one day.
One thing that marketing from West of the pond overlooks IMO is simplicity. I think this is where there may be a cultural divide. I can't say specifically about Canada but I feel that USA sales and marketing seriously over complicates things usually.
Thx for that detailed reply, and for being so specific about what has driven your recent buying decisions.
THIS is exactly why we need to stop and think seriously about harnessing the power of marketing.
Step one is coming up with a list of great reasons why prospects should buy your window cleaning services.
Step two is figuring out the best way to push each of those buttons, and manipulate people to respond to them, and base buying decisions on them.
With respect to your comment about overcomplicating things with North American marketing tactics, that's a new thought for me that I've heard a few times now in the past 24 hrs from you guys.
Simple is cool, no problem.
Make your simple flier do a bunch of marketing pushups, and you'll pump it up even more.
-
Just had a listen to a couple of videos (the cockroach one and the dollar in the envelope one) the techniques are already out there like a free biro in the envelope, that kind of thing. He goes on to talk about a six percent return on thirty four houses. Nothing new there i've had 50% return before ( i only targeted two houses!).
Offering free cleans? good job he didn't offer them on the two houses that netted 1200 dollars!
Interesting? yes i'd say so - would i subscribe? The guy wants to take my money so for that reason i'm out. ;)
Have you ever tried the free biro in the envelope?
-
hi coach, if you've come here to learn you'll do well.
Maybe expecting to teach is stretching the envolope a little.
There are some great threads on here, including the use of round canvassers.WC is different in some ways because it is loyalty based.
-
The guy wants to take my money so for that reason i'm out. ;)
You're out of what?
This conversation?
:)
-
Nope, because i have recieved the free biro in the envelope and the result was either i or my wife rip the top off, sling the junk mail and chuck the biro in the drawer (they are normally crap anyway).
Free cleans? Never ever would i go down that route - that just shows you are desperate in my eyes. A lot of us are using water fed poles and the first clean is always the longest, hardest one of all.
The telephone answering message could be an improvement i would agree. My home line is my main buisiness line too and i really haven't considered making a more professional answering message before.
-
hi coach, if you've come here to learn you'll do well.
Maybe expecting to teach is stretching the envolope a little.
There are some great threads on here, including the use of round canvassers.WC is different in some ways because it is loyalty based.
If I may:
Yes, WC in some ways is loyalty based, so what?
What are you doing to use that information to get more WC business, then?
And what are the "other" ways it is based? And how can they be leveraged?
Stop to listen to your own words, guys.
Your giving me more and more reasons why you should start to figure this marketing stuff out.
And incidentally, no, in my 35 years of life, no, I have NOT discovered marketing. How arrogant would that make me? I simply have discovered an easy way to migrate all of these proven, core marketing strategies into our WC industry, and our tools.
I am teaching you how to apply proven marketing strategy for your WC business, that's all, to achieve rapid, profitable revenue growth.
You have the right to question my position as a teacher, but only if you're open-minded enough to consider the answers.
-
The guy wants to take my money so for that reason i'm out. ;)
You're out of what?
This conversation?
:)
A line from Dragons Den - do you have that programme over there?
-
Nope, because i have recieved the free biro in the envelope and the result was either i or my wife rip the top off, sling the junk mail and chuck the biro in the drawer (they are normally crap anyway).
Free cleans? Never ever would i go down that route - that just shows you are desperate in my eyes. A lot of us are using water fed poles and the first clean is always the longest, hardest one of all.
The telephone answering message could be an improvement i would agree. My home line is my main buisiness line too and i really haven't considered making a more professional answering message before.
(I'm gonna ignore the FREE cleaning reference for now)
Is a "biro" a pen?
Affixing a cheap, plastic, garbage pen to a flier would be an idiotic idea, in my estimation.
Sorry, I thought "biro" was some slang term for money.
Who mentioned anything about pens?
I was talking about affixing a piece of actual coin currency to the flier itself, not a pen.
Have you ever tried this, using actual money attached to a flier, not pens or the like?
If not, why not?
Likely because you're not sure how, right? This idea and strategy is not new, and you yourself seem to revel in pointing out how it's already in your storehouse of knowledge, so why haven't you tapped into it?
Especially in your market, so focused on price, think of how fresh and interesting and captivating a little flier promotion like that could be!
-
A line from Dragons Den - do you have that programme over there?
Is it? Wow.
Yeah, we have a "Toronto" version of it, but I expect its different from the UK original, if its from your side of the pond.
I love that show. I haven't heard that line, though...cool coincidence...
-
Also think what a disaster it could be. You have to remember it's a numbers game - not everyone wants their windows cleaned and several already have a cleaner. Are you saying if i stick a pound coin to my flier i'm going to pick up the people who have a cleaner? The biro thing is the same principle it's a gift to entice you to open the mail and hopefully read it, doesn't work in our house. The free clean was something you mentioned on the video that's why i brought it up. One guy on this forum tried it the other week and one woman took the free clean then told him she already had a cleaner so wouldn't require his sevices. Another guy admitted making a mistake by having super glossy four colour fliers printed his success rate was very small - maybe he should have stuck money to them all?
-
How do you know the dollars stuck to your fliers got you those two jobs? How do you know the fliers alone would not have got them? Have you spoken to those customers to find out why they picked you, was it purely because they had a dollar or because they didn't have a cleaner and wanted their houses cleaned?
-
Also think what a disaster it could be. You have to remember it's a numbers game - not everyone wants their windows cleaned and several already have a cleaner. Are you saying if i stick a pound coin to my flier i'm going to pick up the people who have a cleaner? The biro thing is the same principle it's a gift to entice you to open the mail and hopefully read it, doesn't work in our house. The free clean was something you mentioned on the video that's why i brought it up. One guy on this forum tried it the other week and one woman took the free clean then told him she already had a cleaner so wouldn't require his sevices. Another guy admitted making a mistake by having super glossy four colour fliers printed his success rate was very small - maybe he should have stuck money to them all?
So, don't offer a free WC clean, no big deal. That's not the point I was making in the video, I was simply explaining the original use of this marketing strategy (this is not a NEW strategy, yet what WC has tried it?)
And what's with the 4-color flier comment? We're not talking about that. We can, but we're not right now.
You said "it's a numbers game". What do you believe that really means?
And the biro thing is the same principle, perhaps, but a horribly poor application of it.
Affixing something a little crazier might just work though, in capturing people's attention and getting them to review your offer.
Maybe affixing a stitch of cloth? Or maybe a chunk of a pub coaster?
But let's get back to this money example:
How much would you be willing to pay for a new window cleaning client?
If the idea of a one pound coin scares you, try out a 5 pence (is there such a thing?)
The point is, by doing something a little different, you cut through the noise.
You could create a little simple story around why you're giving them a 5p, tape it right at the top, fold up the flier, place it in a sealed envelope, and then write on the outside in pen "DO NOT THROW - CURRENCY INSIDE"
Try it. It'll take you a couple hours to make the flier, a few pounds to print them off, affix the 5p's , and then you can pay a local kid next to nothing to drop them all off.
And do a small trial run of the method. 100 houses only, and see what happens.
Minimize your risk during this trial phase, and test, track, and tweak, until you have a consistently performing marketing asset, then roll it out to a larger audience.
This is not risky, or expensive.
Wasting money on weak and ineffective, cookie-cutter marketing is.
-
How do you know the dollars stuck to your fliers got you those two jobs? How do you know the fliers alone would not have got them? Have you spoken to those customers to find out why they picked you, was it purely because they had a dollar or because they didn't have a cleaner and wanted their houses cleaned?
These people both commented on the flier catching their attention, yes, and how it made them laugh, and commended us on it.
Could they care less about the dollar? Of course, not! But it aroused some curiosity, they read my message (aka "offer") and picked up the phone and gave me a call.
They also live in a neighbourhood with many of my competitors constantly soliciting these same people.
This method cuts through the "noise" and gets people to zero in on what you specifically want to communicate with them. It also has a super-high open rate, which is half the battle, right?
-
The point i was trying to make is that a lot of customers will have a cleaner and will have had him for years - do you honestly think you can prise your customers away from him with a dollar stuck to your flyer? I'm not saying you are wrong, just churning your ideas about. The only way to know for sure would be to ask your customers why they picked you - was it the dollar, was it the flyer or was it just that they needed a cleaner?
I see you answered above.
-
hi coach, if you've come here to learn you'll do well.
Maybe expecting to teach is stretching the envolope a little.
There are some great threads on here, including the use of round canvassers.WC is different in some ways because it is loyalty based.
If I may:
Yes, WC in some ways is loyalty based, so what?
What are you doing to use that information to get more WC business, then?
And what are the "other" ways it is based? And how can they be leveraged?
Stop to listen to your own words, guys.
Your giving me more and more reasons why you should start to figure this marketing stuff out.
And incidentally, no, in my 35 years of life, no, I have NOT discovered marketing. How arrogant would that make me? I simply have discovered an easy way to migrate all of these proven, core marketing strategies into our WC industry, and our tools.
I am teaching you how to apply proven marketing strategy for your WC business, that's all, to achieve rapid, profitable revenue growth.
You have the right to question my position as a teacher, but only if you're open-minded enough to consider the answers.
Sure thing. It can be very easy to disagree with a couple of things so end up (wrongly) dismissing everything from a source. We call it throwing out the baby with the bath water.
I've read a number of personal developement books down the years. In some there were things that were totally inappropriate for me and possibly even had the potential to be psycholigically dangerous. However, even from such a book, I could still pick out a few gems. I take the view that if I learn something positive from every book I read, then it was worthwhile.
I spoke to someone about marketing on either side of the pond a while back. If you market something in the UK people are more likely to want to know what something does. West of the pond, they are more likely to want to know how it works. Obviously that is a sweeping generalisation but I believe there is some truth in it.
-
I'm afraid the glass is always half empty over here, personally I agree with you coach, but I fear your throwing "pearls before swine".
A great man once said "dont kick every dog that barks at you", Kevin, save your breath!
These posters dont want you or anyone else on here to succeed beyond THEIR OWN capabilities. They are stuck in their small town small mind thinking. They dont have a box to think out of.
Check this out. www.jeffbridges.com/because.html
"It's always been done this way round here"
That link is a classic. ;D
-
personally i think the americans have the marketing thing right down, they do it well
ive been over to the US enough to see that americans lap up the flashy in your face marketing, nothing wrong it that
are we brits a little more reserved ? ? ? ?, are we too reserved to even try it ? ? ?
discuss ;)
-
If you have no interest in growth, I have nothing to offer you.
As he says if you don't want to grow your business don't listen or spend your physically hard earned £££'s. Just keep on cleaning them windows!!! ;)
My business will grow with or without thanks Kev. ::)
-
The apes are using behaviour they have learned. That's okay i would be no different.Your point being?
Marketing advice on this forum, who exactly are you aiming to teach.
One guy had 28,000 domestic accounts (c price), what exactly is he going to learn.Others started from scratch and built fabulous businesses within two years, what can they learn.
Some have an ionics system and use this extensivley to gain an advantage.
Many already have an open mind and read widely, what can they learn?
You need to approach the people you feel you can best help.At the same time be aware that there have been lots of flakes on here trying to sell things before.
The main area we tend to be weak on on here is marketing to commercial customers. Any advise on this would be welcome, but do expect to get trumped by the guys who have a bit more experience.
-
personally i think the americans have the marketing thing right down, they do it well
ive been over to the US enough to see that americans lap up the flashy in your face marketing, nothing wrong it that
are we brits a little more reserved ? ? ? ?, are we too reserved to even try it ? ? ?
discuss ;)
I believe there is a cultural difference with this stuff too Matt. It makes it more important to sift through it and figure out what might and might not work in the UK.
-
Mcdonalds must be a classic example. Every adult knows the product is shall we say rather substandard? Yet they target the kids and the adults go along with it why?
Is it value for money? Is it because the kids love it or what?
I took my daughter into a Big Mac in Bath the other day because i knew it was cheap. The food was rubbish, the staff were scruffy the floor was sticky, it was horrible yet these places do really well - why?
-
personally i think the americans have the marketing thing right down, they do it well
ive been over to the US enough to see that americans lap up the flashy in your face marketing, nothing wrong it that
are we brits a little more reserved ? ? ? ?, are we too reserved to even try it ? ? ?
discuss ;)
I believe there is a cultural difference with this stuff too Matt. It makes it more important to sift through it and figure out what might and might not work in the UK.
But would you pay good money over (I think its meant to be £25.00 on a monthly basis) to have access to someones 'stuff' who you dont know from Adam, when in reality its all out there anyway. I dont actually believe it is actually out there, its actually right there where you are sat right now, between your ears.
I know I wont be spending money on it:
1. I have no need.
2. I find these posts odd, I wouldnt expect to be trusted if I suddenly started posting on a U.S forum; trying to raise my profile.
3. My strategy works and works well.
4. Too many people looking for the 'Holy Grail' in marketing, these threads re-appear time after time, we had one a fortnight ago where a troll was mostly involved; apparently searching for the answer.
5. No offense, but the word 'coach' IMO might be appropriate over there, but a coach to me is someone who has history, a proven track-record, has been where the new-comers are and is passing on his knowledge, experience to those who have a need. Next we'll be haveing cheer-leaders ;D
As I said before, I dont know this guy from Adam, I'd be an idiot to believe that there is an 'answer' to everyones marketing issues; as yet undiscovered this side of the pond, but is common knowledge on the other side, and we're suddenly privvy to that 'holy grail' knowledge cos the guy with it suddenly appears on an internet chat forum.
I know Im a sceptic by nature, perhaps Im one of the apes. I thought the ape thing is actually a trust thing to be honest; they trust the familiarity and their 'cousins'. Nought wrong with that.
No offense meant.
-
Oh yeah! and those web-sites where someone puts up a cheesy picture of themselves, trying to reel in your trust; yuk ;)
-
personally i think the americans have the marketing thing right down, they do it well
ive been over to the US enough to see that americans lap up the flashy in your face marketing, nothing wrong it that
are we brits a little more reserved ? ? ? ?, are we too reserved to even try it ? ? ?
discuss ;)
I believe there is a cultural difference with this stuff too Matt. It makes it more important to sift through it and figure out what might and might not work in the UK.
But would you pay good money over (I think its meant to be £25.00 on a monthly basis) to have access to someones 'stuff' who you dont know from Adam, when in reality its all out there anyway. I dont actually believe it is actually out there, its actually right there where you are sat right now, between your ears.
I know I wont be spending money on it:
1. I have no need.
2. I find these posts odd, I wouldnt expect to be trusted if I suddenly started posting on a U.S forum; trying to raise my profile.
3. My strategy works and works well.
4. Too many people looking for the 'Holy Grail' in marketing, these threads re-appear time after time, we had one a fortnight ago where a troll was mostly involved; apparently searching for the answer.
5. No offense, but the word 'coach' IMO might be appropriate over there, but a coach to me is someone who has history, a proven track-record, has been where the new-comers are and is passing on his knowledge, experience to those who have a need. Next we'll be haveing cheer-leaders ;D
As I said before, I dont know this guy from Adam, I'd be an idiot to believe that there is an 'answer' to everyones marketing issues; as yet undiscovered this side of the pond, but is common knowledge on the other side, and we're suddenly privvy to that 'holy grail' knowledge cos the guy with it suddenly appears on an internet chat forum.
I know Im a sceptic by nature, perhaps Im one of the apes. I thought the ape thing is actually a trust thing to be honest; they trust the familiarity and their 'cousins'. Nought wrong with that.
No offense meant.
£25 a month? No I won't be paying that. I thought it was a one off book sale. I believe I already know enough to grow a large business. There may come a day when I take that route. At the moment, I prefer to take a lower stress route. Although the subject interests me, I'm not the ideal target for this.
A one off book I might have gone for but not a £25 a month commitment - especially as I'm currently living very frugally to sort out my finances.
However, as I said, there is usually something to learn from each person. The coin idea sounded interesting and different. I might try that one day with 100 x 20p pieces - though I suspect that Brit culture would view such a thing differently.
-
i have tried the free clean flyer...and it does work...
free clean with 4 weekly service.. and A bit of good luck.. i think it was the difference in someone calling and not.. try it put a 1000 flyers with free clean on it if you get a job..when you speak to the customer offer them another free clean if they introduce a friend..
TRY IT.....
-
All I can assume from this thread is that coach's target audience are those with very little common sense, Taking advantage of it?
SPIN - that's what it's called over here. ;)
Tony
-
craig,
i expect it does work, so does door knocking, so do web sites and yellow pages.
Marketing, or being consiously aware of what you are doing also works, but again your ideas change over time.Thats why many retailers are having to re focus in the current climate.
One decade green shield stamps make people millionaires, another time a christmass hamper company might work.As consumers wise up on the obvious they get taken on the less so.
How many people responded to the crunch by buying and locking in to a fixed rate mortgage? Or by taking up the lovely fixed price off the gas board?
My answer to all this is quality cost and volume, and as part of that I assess all approaches. If you really want to learn about this stuff from a pro tap in chris cardel
-
discount ...people rubbish different ideas before trying.
coach thing doesnt interest me one bit .but i like free info ..or cheap books..or free..books jim mowan for one i think this is the way forward for window cleaning..
-
discount do you fancy being a mentor we could run different ideas by each other iam across the water from yourself...iam going in total different direction...this year
-
Guess I ticked you off a bit!
Not in the least
Reason number one why I would rather teach than run my window cleaning business for the next 10 years: I hate winter, and I'd like to be able to live somewhere tropical while still working. Seemed like a nice opportunity, since no one seems to have a clear hold on this window cleaning marketing game, and almost no one is doing things right. And before you take issue with this last statement, I do not presumptuously have the right to determine right from wrong, when it comes to marketing, history and testing establish that.
We all don't like the cold dark months, but we are all full-time proffesional window cleaners, and because of this we carry on, the same applys to any customer who dosen't want their windows cleaned in the winter, they are taken off my books and they can find a part timer if they can, I still have bills to pay for.
Like you, I like the hot climate, thats why I go to Africa a lot and my goal is in 10 years, I sell up and move there.
Imo there are no great marketing skills that need to be paid for, is mainly common sense approach to selling your company and yourself to as many people as possible.
The reason that the likes of Microsoft-McDonalds-Apple-Virgin-Ford and all the rest of the better known names in commerce that we know of is no big secret, all of them over the years have done "name marketing" they have spent Trillions and Trillions on advertisting if I do the same, then I would be in the same league as them.
The best way all of us have used to generate new customers has been the direct approach, by door to door canvassing, this provides more customers than any other forms of marketing that there is. But this method can be time consuming or costly (employing someone to do it for you) so we all try out different methods adverts -leaflets -paid for listings on the web and many other methods that cost a great deal, all of these methods have varring results, we would all like the "magic leaflet" that generates more customers than we can cope with, but it does not excist.
Also using marketing plans from elsewhere in the world will not always work over here, for example you have produced an very proffessional sounding recorded message that a protential customer will hear if they phone you.
Telephone messaging services might be more common and exceptable over in Canada and the USA but in the UK we all hate them, we would rather talk to a "live" person rather than kept on pressing this number and then that number before ending leaving a voice message that we hope someone will listen too. I do have a answering machine but I never use it, all I do is transfer all calls to my mobile whenever I am not by the landline, that way I never ever lose that call, whereas with a messaging service, they might not leave a message but phone the next number on the list.
You also said that you only only sell your monthly packs to window cleaners because you are one.
Well you are not a window cleaner, you are a part time window cleaner and a part time marketing salesman, why not take this piece of free marketing advice and change the contain of your products a little and target other trades and industries, that way you will be able to spend more vacation time in hotter climates of the world.
-
Also think what a disaster it could be. You have to remember it's a numbers game - not everyone wants their windows cleaned and several already have a cleaner. Are you saying if i stick a pound coin to my flier i'm going to pick up the people who have a cleaner? The biro thing is the same principle it's a gift to entice you to open the mail and hopefully read it, doesn't work in our house. The free clean was something you mentioned on the video that's why i brought it up. One guy on this forum tried it the other week and one woman took the free clean then told him she already had a cleaner so wouldn't require his sevices. Another guy admitted making a mistake by having super glossy four colour fliers printed his success rate was very small - maybe he should have stuck money to them all?
So instead of offering the the FREE CLEAN at the start of the year...why not offer it at the END of the year? Call it a 'loyalty bonus' or something. You could still put "FREE CLEAN" on your leaflets.
McDonalds do this with their coffee - buy 6 cups of coffee and the next one is free. But they state FREE COFFEE on their cups ;)
I've noticed a bit of a theme with this post - Kevin has posted up some of his thoughts and ideas and theres been plenty of reasons given for why they wont work....but nobody has posted up an idea/strategy to take its place.
I used to work for a firm who had a motto - Dont shoot it down until you have something better to replace it with.
That made lots of guys sit up and take note - it wasnt good enough to say 'it wont work' they had to sit down and not only give the reasons why it wouldnt work, but also find a better way of doing it.
Personally, I think £25.00 a month (£300 a year) is a bit steep, but I like Kevins approach. He's thinking, trying and adapting. If we dont like his ideas then we should at least do him the courtesy of giving him a solid reason and an advertising approach that works even better in its place.
-
whys it dumb if its worded right....if coach persons flyer worked so well why didnt he use the £1000 something and put it back in a thousand flyers and make£100000.something.
and then tell us about it then we might be impressed..
-
Also think what a disaster it could be. You have to remember it's a numbers game - not everyone wants their windows cleaned and several already have a cleaner. Are you saying if i stick a pound coin to my flier i'm going to pick up the people who have a cleaner? The biro thing is the same principle it's a gift to entice you to open the mail and hopefully read it, doesn't work in our house. The free clean was something you mentioned on the video that's why i brought it up. One guy on this forum tried it the other week and one woman took the free clean then told him she already had a cleaner so wouldn't require his sevices. Another guy admitted making a mistake by having super glossy four colour fliers printed his success rate was very small - maybe he should have stuck money to them all?
The free clean can work, it depends how you market it.
It's a bit dumb to offer it upfront, but if you offer a free inside clean they will consider it.
"Ah but think of the time it takes your loosing money"!
No, not if you charge 5 times your normal rate to start with.
That £10 hose is priced up at £50, free inside clean included.
"But people round my way wont pay that"
Then go to an area where they will. Every big town or city has areas on the outskirts where all the better houses are, just aproch these people.
With that approach why don't we all just increase our prices by 5, because there is always some fool who is willing to pay it, instead of us offering a good servive at a reasonally price, we are insteads pirates trying to get as much as we can.
The words "GREEDY PIG" comes to mind or even "RIPE OFF MERCHANT"
-
The apes are using behaviour they have learned. That's okay i would be no different.Your point being?
My point is that, they dont know why they are doing it, they just do it.
Learned behavior can stop us from thinking about how we are going about business.
Is it working how we want it to work, or is it how everybody else does it.
This forum does push the boundary for the majority of window cleaners, but Cleanitup is not the Holy Grail either.
For every good idea, you get half the posts saying it will never work.
Exchanging idea's on here has a limited use as you have to trawl through all the garbage first, then you have to make the mistakes yourself before you tweak.
What is being offered is a proven method to run a business on 2 days a week and still have money for the things you like.
Have you seen his truck?
The point is it worked for HIM, his degree of sucsess is only proven for HIM in his patch & in his circumstances. It will NOT work for everyone. There are so many variables in this job that just about every w/c needs a differing approach. Each w/c must use HIS OWN noggin & not rely on someone who's system worked for him at the other side of the world! Otherwise we'd all be reading Alan Sugar's book & we'd all be millionaires! right? If i adopt the same business strategy as Sir Alan I am guaranteed to be as sucsesful?
In our profession the biggest chunk of what we require is common sense applied to all the variables that make up our individual circumstances, the rest certainly isn't worth paying for! e.g. IMO 99% of what we need comes from within, you should only be looking to outsource 1%
I am applying this to 99% of window cleaners but not the 1% who are national companys etc.
Tony
-
Very little in marketing is new but actually implementing those marketing plans that we all have but havn't actioned yet is what makes the difference imo, if Kevin is a good motivator and his package encourages some then why not.
-
Peter mallory smith
Just incase you are unaware-
We are selling an unskilled service to the general public of the UK, most of which at the mo' are skint. It is called window cleaning, something that most home owners could actualy do themselves. Generaly, the service is offered from 10 pounds sterling upwards & there are still plenty who do it for less!
We, on this forum do not sell high quality watches of 1k etc.etc.etc.
Hope this helps
Tony
-
My point is that, they dont know why they are doing it, they just do it.
Learned behavior can stop us from thinking about how we are going about business.
Is it working how we want it to work, or is it how everybody else does it.
This forum does push the boundary for the majority of window cleaners, but Cleanitup is not the Holy Grail either.
For every good idea, you get half the posts saying it will never work.
Exchanging idea's on here has a limited use as you have to trawl through all the garbage first, then you have to make the mistakes yourself before you tweak.
What is being offered is a proven method to run a business on 2 days a week and still have money for the things you like.
Have you seen his truck?
But youve only been a member for 2 days, how can you comment on this forum after that amount of time? Or is this your alter ego?
Going back to the apes, they practise learned behaviour because that is what instinct tells them to do (see monkey...copy monkey). Imagine what would happen if any given species didnt do that, they would die as a species. Its Darwinian.
-
My point is that, they dont know why they are doing it, they just do it.
Learned behavior can stop us from thinking about how we are going about business.
Is it working how we want it to work, or is it how everybody else does it.
This forum does push the boundary for the majority of window cleaners, but Cleanitup is not the Holy Grail either.
For every good idea, you get half the posts saying it will never work.
Exchanging idea's on here has a limited use as you have to trawl through all the garbage first, then you have to make the mistakes yourself before you tweak.
What is being offered is a proven method to run a business on 2 days a week and still have money for the things you like.
Have you seen his truck?
But youve only been a member for 2 days, how can you comment on this forum after that amount of time? Or is this your alter ego?
Going back to the apes, they practise learned behaviour because that is what instinct tells them to do (see monkey...copy monkey). Imagine what would happen if any given species didnt do that, they would die as a species. Its Darwinian.
Matt,
I think you'll find its the other way around.
Neandethals died out because they were incapable of change. Man conquered the planet becuase they COULD change and adapt.
We are sat here chatting on this crazy thing called the internet...because somebody thought outside the box ;)
We sent a man vto the moon....how many apes can say that? ;D
-
Also think what a disaster it could be. You have to remember it's a numbers game - not everyone wants their windows cleaned and several already have a cleaner. Are you saying if i stick a pound coin to my flier i'm going to pick up the people who have a cleaner? The biro thing is the same principle it's a gift to entice you to open the mail and hopefully read it, doesn't work in our house. The free clean was something you mentioned on the video that's why i brought it up. One guy on this forum tried it the other week and one woman took the free clean then told him she already had a cleaner so wouldn't require his sevices. Another guy admitted making a mistake by having super glossy four colour fliers printed his success rate was very small - maybe he should have stuck money to them all?
The free clean can work, it depends how you market it.
It's a bit dumb to offer it upfront, but if you offer a free inside clean they will consider it.
"Ah but think of the time it takes your loosing money"!
No, not if you charge 5 times your normal rate to start with.
That £10 hose is priced up at £50, free inside clean included.
"But people round my way wont pay that"
Then go to an area where they will. Every big town or city has areas on the outskirts where all the better houses are, just aproch these people.
50 quid for a 10 quid clean
add the 150 % increase for the insides ( yes thats what i charge ) and you have 25 quid
now even if we say 25 quid a clean with the first clean you get a free insides clean
how many people do you know who will take that offer, 25 quid for a 10 quid house ? ? ? ? ? not many, they would just ask next door " hey mr jones, have you got a WC'er, how much do they charge ", they will know the rate is 10 quid, am i giving the customer too much credit here ? ?? ?
-
If you have no interest in growth, I have nothing to offer you.
As he says if you don't want to grow your business don't listen or spend your physically hard earned £££'s. Just keep on cleaning them windows!!! ;)
My business will grow with or without thanks Kev. ::)
Its obvious that without some form of marketing your business will not grow. What do you say when someone asks you to clean their windows? your reply markets your company usually unless you don't want the work.
We all know how to market to an extent, or otherwise our businesses would have already failed. 2009 will bring many new challenges to many established companies - over the last 10 years its all been fair weather sailing but things are about to change.
In the last recession many companies failed - and it will happen again. There will be many new start ups competing for your piece of the pie. They will have less kit, lower overheads and will be cheaper.
Customers do not care how their windows are cleaned or by who (wfp or trad, you or your staff its irrelevant as long as they are clean)
If we want to survive the coming storm we will all need to market our businesses to make up for the inevitable customer losses and the changing environment that we will all face.
If you are new to marketing or know nothing about marketing or just wish to improve you knowledge then now is the time to to get stuck in.
Im not suggesting that the window cleaning coach is the only way to go - but its one avenue that may be worth exploring.
My original post said:
What do you guys think of this?
windowcleaningbusinesscoach.com/coach (http://windowcleaningbusinesscoach.com/coach)
I bought his book and thought it was ok - based of guerilla marketing / Piranha marketing but a bit more focused to the window cleaning market. He now is selling a monthly marketing tutorial on subscription but its a bit pricey in my opinion when marketing books are so cheap in the local book store or on Amazon.
However I would be interested in any opinions especially from anyone who has read his book and maybe has even subscribed.
I'm not interested in the opinions of those that choose not to market their companies
I am interested only in those that market their companies in one way or another - especially those that have first hand experience of the Window Cleaning Coach
You need to re-read the posts here Kevin, cos you were initially talking about growth, you now appear to have morphed the subject in hand to marketing.
I will expand, as I wish, as I said before, I will also market my business and services as I wish, although you appear to be regarding the fact that if it isnt done the way you think it should be done then it isnt being done at all. Wrong!
-
My point is that, they dont know why they are doing it, they just do it.
Learned behavior can stop us from thinking about how we are going about business.
Is it working how we want it to work, or is it how everybody else does it.
This forum does push the boundary for the majority of window cleaners, but Cleanitup is not the Holy Grail either.
For every good idea, you get half the posts saying it will never work.
Exchanging idea's on here has a limited use as you have to trawl through all the garbage first, then you have to make the mistakes yourself before you tweak.
What is being offered is a proven method to run a business on 2 days a week and still have money for the things you like.
Have you seen his truck?
But youve only been a member for 2 days, how can you comment on this forum after that amount of time? Or is this your alter ego?
Going back to the apes, they practise learned behaviour because that is what instinct tells them to do (see monkey...copy monkey). Imagine what would happen if any given species didnt do that, they would die as a species. Its Darwinian.
Matt,
I think you'll find its the other way around.
Neandethals died out because they were incapable of change. Man conquered the planet becuase they COULD change and adapt.
We are sat here chatting on this crazy thing called the internet...because somebody thought outside the box ;)
We sent a man vto the moon....how many apes can say that? ;D
True, BUT... if the apes decided to use an alternative (therefore behaviour that wasnt learned) they'd be doing it the way the giraffes do it, and that'd bugger them cos try as they might they'll never reach those leaves that far off the ground ;)
Have you ever heard the phrase 'monkey see, monkey do!'
-
Also think what a disaster it could be. You have to remember it's a numbers game - not everyone wants their windows cleaned and several already have a cleaner. Are you saying if i stick a pound coin to my flier i'm going to pick up the people who have a cleaner? The biro thing is the same principle it's a gift to entice you to open the mail and hopefully read it, doesn't work in our house. The free clean was something you mentioned on the video that's why i brought it up. One guy on this forum tried it the other week and one woman took the free clean then told him she already had a cleaner so wouldn't require his sevices. Another guy admitted making a mistake by having super glossy four colour fliers printed his success rate was very small - maybe he should have stuck money to them all?
The free clean can work, it depends how you market it.
It's a bit dumb to offer it upfront, but if you offer a free inside clean they will consider it.
"Ah but think of the time it takes your loosing money"!
No, not if you charge 5 times your normal rate to start with.
That £10 hose is priced up at £50, free inside clean included.
"But people round my way wont pay that"
Then go to an area where they will. Every big town or city has areas on the outskirts where all the better houses are, just aproch these people.
With that approach why don't we all just increase our prices by 5, because there is always some fool who is willing to pay it, instead of us offering a good servive at a reasonally price, we are insteads pirates trying to get as much as we can.
The words "GREEDY PIG" comes to mind or even "RIPE OFF MERCHANT"
Thank you for the compliment, just ask yourself, "how much was the last watch you brought?"
Maybe you paid £100 maybe £1000. So whats the difference, £900 worth of quality.
Is everyone who buys a Breitling being ripped off? Some of the worlds most astude businessmen wear them, have they suddenly become dumb?
The last watch I brought cost me under £200 (purchased online from the USA) yet in the UK the same watch cost over £350, I like most people go for price as well as quality, and if they can get the same quality for a cheaper price, well it a "no brainer"
I also buy all the parts for my carpet cleaning business from the usa because of the savings I make, same equipment half the price, just look at Ionics gutter cleaning system you can get the same equipment from the same company Ionics buy from and even with all the shipping costs and taxes you save half the price.
Another example I want a Harley Davidson survallince jacket the UK price £399 the Us price with shipping and tax £267 who do you think I should shop with?
Yes you can charge really high prices and you will always have someone fool enough to pay it, but these same people will also be targeted by some other cleaner who is going to offer the same service for a cheaper and more realistic price, can you guess what they will do?.
If all you are interested in doing is exploiting them for as much as you can get, why not skip half of the clean, still charge them the same, you now can do twice as many customers for double the money.
-
My point is that, they dont know why they are doing it, they just do it.
Learned behavior can stop us from thinking about how we are going about business.
Is it working how we want it to work, or is it how everybody else does it.
This forum does push the boundary for the majority of window cleaners, but Cleanitup is not the Holy Grail either.
For every good idea, you get half the posts saying it will never work.
Exchanging idea's on here has a limited use as you have to trawl through all the garbage first, then you have to make the mistakes yourself before you tweak.
What is being offered is a proven method to run a business on 2 days a week and still have money for the things you like.
Have you seen his truck?
But youve only been a member for 2 days, how can you comment on this forum after that amount of time? Or is this your alter ego?
Going back to the apes, they practise learned behaviour because that is what instinct tells them to do (see monkey...copy monkey). Imagine what would happen if any given species didnt do that, they would die as a species. Its Darwinian.
Matt,
I think you'll find its the other way around.
Neandethals died out because they were incapable of change. Man conquered the planet becuase they COULD change and adapt.
We are sat here chatting on this crazy thing called the internet...because somebody thought outside the box ;)
We sent a man vto the moon....how many apes can say that? ;D
True, BUT... if the apes decided to use an alternative (therefore behaviour that wasnt learned) they'd be doing it the way the giraffes do it, and that'd bugger them cos try as they might they'll never reach those leaves that far off the ground ;)
Have you ever heard the phrase 'monkey see, monkey do!'
Yes, I know the phrase 'monkey see, monkey do'....its normally meant as an idiot guide (just do what I do). It can work very well for repetetive tasks.
EXAMPLE -
1. this how we've always built our mud huts - just copy what I do.
2. second guy decides he can improve on mud huts.....now we live in brick and glass structures stretching many hundreds of feet into the sky.
To some degree even primates have 'developed' on existing ideas. There are certain troops of chimps who use tools to fish out termites. Theres other troops who use rocks to break nuts. This isnt 'monkey see, monkey do' This is down tgo one ape thinking about the problem and coming up with an even better solution.
....some member of the troops are incapable of learning the 'new and improved' methods.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EaEDeRJKN0s
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xRN-fHdGzUY
-
I could also get a jacket for a £1 ebay, but I want this jacket and the cheapest price is £267 if I could find one cheaper then that were I will be shopping.
With you theory why don't McDonalds charge more for their burgers, the reason is they charge what the market will pay for for they product they supply. if they took your marketing advive then every one will be eating at burger king in 2009, and McDonalds will go to the same place that woolworths have gone too.
-
my take on marketing ( and i guess the idiots here will say " you dont understand OR your just a small time window cleaner who will allways be nothing, your not worth bothering about ), but hey ho, i will post anyway
marketting to the commercial clients, yes great, give me a few idea's, infact im sure 90 % of window cleaners would say that, thus i guess it would just cancel itself out as we would all be doing the same marketing and trying the same tricks to land that contract, as i can sqeeze a little more commercial stuff in the early mornings or late nights
marketing to the domestic market, does it work ? ?? as i have a wide range from a small 6 quid cottage to a big 220 quid house, they are mainly around the 10 - 12 qiud mark though ( the 3 / 4 bed homes ) , now how to i pick up more work, it mainly goes like this :
mrs smith asks friend / next door etc if they have a good window cleaner, they get told to phone my number, i answer the phone and it allways goes like this : hey Matt, ive been recommended to you by mrs johnston, the phonecall continues and i normally pick up the job with whatever price i give them, the reason, they know im trustworthy as mrs johnston told them ive done hers for 6 years
now ive used flyers in the past for the houese between the houses i do, it says something like this "
WINDOW CLEANER
we clean other properties in your area and we are currently taking on new clients, this will be intill our books are full, act now to ensure we have space
i then right on the rear, we clean number 10 , 14 and 16 ( lets say they are number 12 )
this gets them thinking on a few levels :
Oh all around me are having clean windows, they might think im scruffy because i dont
i can trust him as he does the houses around me
they might ask nextdoor about me, who will of course say, yes he is a great guy
now this is marketing in my eyes, it works, i know as ive built up a very compact round of customers
-
I think you'll find its the other way around.
Neandethals died out because they were incapable of change. Man conquered the planet becuase they COULD change and adapt.
Peter you couldnt be MORE wrong!
Neanderthals didnt die out BECAUSE they couldnt adapt. They adapted into who we are today BECAUSE THEY COULD adapt!!
-
My point is that, they dont know why they are doing it, they just do it.
Learned behavior can stop us from thinking about how we are going about business.
Is it working how we want it to work, or is it how everybody else does it.
This forum does push the boundary for the majority of window cleaners, but Cleanitup is not the Holy Grail either.
For every good idea, you get half the posts saying it will never work.
Exchanging idea's on here has a limited use as you have to trawl through all the garbage first, then you have to make the mistakes yourself before you tweak.
What is being offered is a proven method to run a business on 2 days a week and still have money for the things you like.
Have you seen his truck?
But youve only been a member for 2 days, how can you comment on this forum after that amount of time? Or is this your alter ego?
Going back to the apes, they practise learned behaviour because that is what instinct tells them to do (see monkey...copy monkey). Imagine what would happen if any given species didnt do that, they would die as a species. Its Darwinian.
Matt,
I think you'll find its the other way around.
Neandethals died out because they were incapable of change. Man conquered the planet becuase they COULD change and adapt.
We are sat here chatting on this crazy thing called the internet...because somebody thought outside the box ;)
We sent a man vto the moon....how many apes can say that? ;D
Well a monkey went into space before any humans did it ;D
-
Peter you couldnt be MORE wrong!
Neanderthals didnt die out BECAUSE they couldnt adapt. They adapted into who we are today BECAUSE THEY COULD adapt!!
Are we talking about the theory that Homosapiens might have 'mated' with Neanderthals? and as a result we are now a cross between the two?
Homosapiens are NOT Neanderthals. Neanderthals either died out due to pressure from Homosapiens on land/resources or we assimilated them into our Homosapien genes (we mated with them and our dominant gene took over).
We didnt evolve from Neanderthals if thats what you're thinking.
Personally, I'm of the opionion they were forced out and died off....which isnt that different to business is it ;)
-
My point is that, they dont know why they are doing it, they just do it.
Learned behavior can stop us from thinking about how we are going about business.
Is it working how we want it to work, or is it how everybody else does it.
This forum does push the boundary for the majority of window cleaners, but Cleanitup is not the Holy Grail either.
For every good idea, you get half the posts saying it will never work.
Exchanging idea's on here has a limited use as you have to trawl through all the garbage first, then you have to make the mistakes yourself before you tweak.
What is being offered is a proven method to run a business on 2 days a week and still have money for the things you like.
Have you seen his truck?
But youve only been a member for 2 days, how can you comment on this forum after that amount of time? Or is this your alter ego?
Going back to the apes, they practise learned behaviour because that is what instinct tells them to do (see monkey...copy monkey). Imagine what would happen if any given species didnt do that, they would die as a species. Its Darwinian.
Matt,
I think you'll find its the other way around.
Neandethals died out because they were incapable of change. Man conquered the planet becuase they COULD change and adapt.
We are sat here chatting on this crazy thing called the internet...because somebody thought outside the box ;)
We sent a man vto the moon....how many apes can say that? ;D
Well a monkey went into space before any humans did it ;D
And a dog called "Laiki" went first the cats have never forgiven him for that.
-
;D ;D
Kevin,
This 'monkey thing' IS relevant to marketing.
There seems to be two very clear camps forming:
1. This is how its always been so keep doing that.
2. Is that really the best way of doing it? Can it be improved?
I think we all agree that the most effectrive form of advertsing is door knocking?. But WHY is that.... and is there a better way?
At some time in the dim and distant past, the FIRST window cleaner went door knocking and found it was a brilliant form of advertising.....what did his peers say to him at the time?
Maybe sticking pound coins is even better than door knocking? Maybe its worse? Maaybe its a cultural thing?
How are we going to find out unless we try NEW THINGS?
-
There is a massive difference between selling a physical product & a local/regional non/low skilled service.
With the former, yes, with effective marketing you can make lots of money relying on 1 mug buying from every village in every county of the UK or indeed europe etc. Why? cos' that amounts to a lot of sales & you won't need repeat custom (as you're unlikely to get it anyway).
With the latter, yes you may get one or two of the said mugs but you certainly ain't gonna make a business grow from that approach. Not a business that relies on REPEAT custom, loyalty, value, reputation? A service you supply in the village/region of which you live, or near enough?
Yes, you do need to change, adapt, whatever. BUT you also need to be able to seperate marketing strategys. To me, nothing I've read is anything new, or indeed worth any measureable amount of consideration.
I would imagine for some it may be nice to wrap up common sense in a nicely worded package & post it to whom ever may feel they need it. Maybe that's the kick for the author, as like the above example- there's always a few mugs! ::)
For people like Ewan, unfortunately they will always have to sub-out for common sense. ;D
Tony
-
Some guys on here have a fixed rate for example £1.00 per window but Mr Coach goes against this and is basically saying if you can find a wealthy area then charge more, maybe five times more (like Mr Smidt). Great but what happens when next door have another cleaner doing the same job to the same quality for a fith of the price? Oh, of course the cheap one will be dumped for the dear one. Unlikely i would think.
It's common sense, you push your prices to the point where you think you will lose work then back off a little. A guy earning £6.00 an hour won't pay a mere cleaner £50 for ten minutes work to clean dirt off his windows. Commercial work is where marketing skills belong in my opinion, not to get the highest price but to secure the job in the first place.
-
This thread isn't about marketing.
This is about someone coming onto the forum as a marketing coach and imparting his knowledge to us.
Mcdonalds sell a very good product. They all ways use top quality branded products. The thick shake is always how i wanted a milkshake to be.
They have had their problems. The main one being cannibilism, this is not that we are eating each other instead of their product, but some of the store locations in the states conflicted when they were too close.
Recently they have responded to subways attack by widening the menu and going healthier and attacks from starbucks by improving the decor.The entire orginisation is fabulous and you couldn't find a better model to learn from. In marketing terms they very often have tie ins with, and even free tickets for films.The toys given out with kids meals are also excellent.
If you would like to be a franchisee now matter how much money you have you will still be required to take eighteen months out of your life to attend mcdonalds university.
From almost every single angle they are outstanding and if you had a son or daughter they would learn a lot from working there. It's extremely hard for large orginisations to adapt to change, but they continually evolve and do it well.
-
I would imagine for some it may be nice to wrap up common sense in a nicely worded package & post it to whom ever may feel they need it. Maybe that's the kick for the author, as like the above example- there's always a few mugs! ::)
For people like Ewan, unfortunately they will always have to sub-out for common sense. ;D
Tony
So The Window Cleaning Coach is offering his dossier and book for free for a set time period? If you dont like it it costs you nothing but the reasonable postage
So are the people on here that don't have a look at the free material mugs? or are the mugs the ones that do?
or do I need also to sub-out for common sense?
You tell me mate, but I'm supprised at you subbing out for such basic knowlage. I would look at yourself, how have you got to this stage? from what I've read of your posts you've done very well for yourself. wfp, gutter vac, good business, loads of work etc.etc. Who got you here? who's brain, drive, desire? I would assume it was you & IMO you are the best person to continue the drive to where you require.
there's no harm in looking at a free publication.
Tony
-
This thread isn't about marketing.
This is about someone coming onto the forum as a marketing coach and imparting his knowledge to us.
Mcdonalds sell a very good product. They all ways use top quality branded products. The thick shake is always how i wanted a milkshake to be.
They have had their problems. The main one being cannibilism, this is not that we are eating each other instead of their product, but some of the store locations in the states conflicted when they were too close.
Recently they have responded to subways attack by widening the menu and going healthier and attacks from starbucks by improving the decor.The entire orginisation is fabulous and you couldn't find a better model to learn from. In marketing terms they very often have tie ins with, and even free tickets for films.The toys given out with kids meals are also excellent.
If you would like to be a franchisee now matter how much money you have you will still be required to take eighteen months out of your life to attend mcdonalds university.
From almost every single angle they are outstanding and if you had a son or daughter they would learn a lot from working there. It's extremely hard for large orginisations to adapt to change, but they continually evolve and do it well.
I agree, Maccy D's have a brilliant business model....But they're not perfect.
They have tried literally hundreds of ideas over the years. Some of them worked well (they kept them and intergrated into their menu/bunsiess) and others were terrible (and they were quickly dropped).
Without TRYING new ideas, they'd never find the good ones.
IMO you cant dismiss something unless you've tried it and found it to be flawed.
-
IMO you cant dismiss something unless you've tried it and found it to be flawed
Yes you can, if you're good enough. You need self belief & confidence, the same stuff that gets you to the stage where you start looking for business coaches. ;)
Unless i'm way ahead of most? (doubtfull)
Tony
-
IMO you cant dismiss something unless you've tried it and found it to be flawed
Yes you can, if you're good enough. You need self belief & confidence, the same stuff that gets you to the stage where you start looking for business coaches. ;)
Unless i'm way ahead of most? (doubtfull)
Tony
Doubtfull.
-
IMO you cant dismiss something unless you've tried it and found it to be flawed
Yes you can, if you're good enough. You need self belief & confidence, the same stuff that gets you to the stage where you start looking for business coaches. ;)
Unless i'm way ahead of most? (doubtfull)
Tony
Tony,
Were you the first person to buy and use WFP? Were you the first window cleaner to go door knocking? Were you the first window cleaner to put flyers out?
Lets presume you werent - so why did you change?
1. Because everyone else was doing it?
2. Because you TRIED it and found it better than the method you were currently using?
...so how do you know some other idea wont work or will work better?
You cant just dismiss something unless you've tried it. I'm not specifically talking about WCBC but more generally in terms of advertising/marketing.
Kevin seems to be thinking outside the box and that alone must be applauded.