Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: michael edgar on December 04, 2008, 11:04:08 am
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Hi People
I have DIY Reach and Wash System (cold) but I am looking a hot system. Is there any companies in the UK which can supply these systems or just extra fixings.
Thanks
Michael
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How can you have a DIY Reach & Wash system? Reach & Wash is Ionics trademark :P
Try the search feature, HOT has been mention many times.
More likely to get replies by filling out your profile details etc btw. ;)
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Also DIY means you are sourcing and making your own system, looking for company that already supplys complete hot water systems is not DIY. ::)
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http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=65871.0
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Hi People
I have DIY Reach and Wash System (cold) but I am looking a hot system. Is there any companies in the UK which can supply these systems or just extra fixings.
Thanks
Michael
I have been looking into the possibility of supplying propane gas powered on demand hot water systems using tankless water heaters and have spoken to Calor gas themselves about rules and regs that apply.
It's OK to carry LPG fuels in a van but that's it. Plumbers etc can carry them from job to job but must then take the container OUT of the vehicle before it is connected to any appliance that it runs.
If it is to be connected to any appliance used inside a vehicle it MUST be housed in a totally sealed compartment with access to if from the OUTSIDE of the vehicle only. This means that you need to build a totally gastight enclosure within the vehicle to stop any leakage at all from getting into the inside of the vehicle. In practice this means having doors to the gas bottle compartment on the outside of the vehicle. You MUST NOT be able to get to the bottle from the inside.
E.G. caravans, motorhomes, mobile catering units either have housings outside to carry the bottles or doors that have to be opened from the outside to get to the bottle.. Also any installation would at the very least have to be inspected and signed off by a Corgi registered plumber.
I was investigating this as an option to add hot to systems at a good price but after getting the information re regulations I won't be offering it.
For those that have already fitted their own systems like these I would seriously urge you to check the legalities out yourselves.
What I have posted above is based on the results of my own research and therefore cannot be considered as definitive.
I really did like the idea but it's a no go for me as a suppler. :(
Andrew
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I know what you are saying NWH
For anyone else please don't get the intention of my post wrong.
I don't have anything at all against DIY and have no axe to grind because I don't supply hot water systems.
Far from bad mouthing it I honestly really liked the idea of a very well priced hot water option for those that wanted it from a supplier. As stated what I have said is based on the research that I have done from a suppliers point of view and so far it just doesn't look viable as a low cost option.
If my research has come up with wrong info then I apologise. I did speak directly to Calor about this. Not a receptionist or the like it was someone in their tech department who gave me the info.
Some interesting reading can be found here www.bcga.co.uk/preview/publications/L12005.pdf
Andrew.
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Hi People
I have DIY Reach and Wash System (cold) but I am looking a hot system. Is there any companies in the UK which can supply these systems or just extra fixings.
Thanks
Michael
I have been looking into the possibility of supplying propane gas powered on demand hot water systems using tankless water heaters and have spoken to Calor gas themselves about rules and regs that apply.
It's OK to carry LPG fuels in a van but that's it. Plumbers etc can carry them from job to job but must then take the container OUT of the vehicle before it is connected to any appliance that it runs.
If it is to be connected to any appliance used inside a vehicle it MUST be housed in a totally sealed compartment with access to if from the OUTSIDE of the vehicle only. This means that you need to build a totally gastight enclosure within the vehicle to stop any leakage at all from getting into the inside of the vehicle. In practice this means having doors to the gas bottle compartment on the outside of the vehicle. You MUST NOT be able to get to the bottle from the inside.
E.G. caravans, motorhomes, mobile catering units either have housings outside to carry the bottles or doors that have to be opened from the outside to get to the bottle.. Also any installation would at the very least have to be inspected and signed off by a Corgi registered plumber.
I was investigating this as an option to add hot to systems at a good price but after getting the information re regulations I won't be offering it.
For those that have already fitted their own systems like these I would seriously urge you to check the legalities out yourselves.
What I have posted above is based on the results of my own research and therefore cannot be considered as definitive.
I really did like the idea but it's a no go for me as a suppler. :(
Andrew
Your right Andrew a customer of mine pointed it out, that the gas bottled legally should be placed out of the vehicle.
Although I have really enjoyed using hot water - it does cleana lot easier, and a all together more enjoyable experience. I'm starting to think ecomonically that it may work out too expensive to run. Gas isn't cheap, and I find I'm using quite a bit more than expected.
I had a problem with my heater, and so have reverted back to cold water. Apart from the hoses feeling like cable, and the ' slipperly glide' that hot water gives - the cleans are just as good, just not as easy as with hot.
I think I may be conveting back to cold water again soon.
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Has anyone got a Ionics system , where is there gas fitted .
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Has anyone got a Ionics system , where is there gas fitted .
Ionics is diesel isn;t it?
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My gas bottle is housed in a bespoke made holder fitted right around it and it is secured to the tank frame,i don`t mean you Andrew but i was just waiting for some other suppliers to come on here and bad mouth it.You wait until the next issue of the mag that comes out telling you the risks involved in carrying gas in your vehicle,once certain manufacturers find out you can go hot for less than £200 they`ll be having kittens.The exact same thing has been discussed on here about dodgy DIY tank fitting.
quick, you might get a job with them, it'll silence you ;) ;)
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There is an alternative to gas or diesel heaters. ;D
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I would indeed. Free heat, no running costs. Plan to fit one inside my van tank now I've got the bits I've been seeking.
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IMO cold does not clean as good and the windows in some cases dry so quickly you have to remember whether you`ve done them or not,if you buy an adapter you can fill your bottle from a LPG pump at a garage and it`s less than half the price of buying another full bottle.A 6kg bottle will need about 13ltrs and it will be full again,a new bottle full will cost you £17 but if you fill from the pump it will cost about £8 and last about a couple of weeks used most of the day,the adapter is £30.
ahy info/link please? sounds useful!
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How can you have a DIY Reach & Wash system? Reach & Wash is Ionics trademark :P
Try the search feature, HOT has been mention many times.
More likely to get replies by filling out your profile details etc btw. ;)
Can you really get done (sued) for using the term "Reach & Wash" ::)
What about...
"reach & wash"
"Wash & Reach"
"Reach and Wash"
or "Reach Clean & Wash" (which I've seen used!)
So I can't write on my literature ...using latest Reach & Wash technology... ??? :o
I call my "Vax" carpet cleaner a "Hoover"!
If I advertised it as a "Vax, hoover" would I be breaking trades descriptions? :'(
Thousands of hoovers, thousands of names... only one job! :-\ :-\
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How can you have a DIY Reach & Wash system? Reach & Wash is Ionics trademark :P
Try the search feature, HOT has been mention many times.
More likely to get replies by filling out your profile details etc btw. ;)
Can you really get done (sued) for using the term "Reach & Wash" ::)
What about...
"reach & wash"
"Wash & Reach"
"Reach and Wash"
or "Reach Clean & Wash" (which I've seen used!)
So I can't write on my literature ...using latest Reach & Wash technology... ??? :o
I call my "Vax" carpet cleaner a "Hoover"!
If I advertised it as a "Vax, hoover" would I be breaking trades descriptions? :'(
Thousands of hoovers, thousands of names... only one job! :-\ :-\
;D ;D dont open that can or worms ;D ;D
oh go on then, its allways a good un ;)
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I saw Ionix on a van (probably on here). I'm thinking of having On-me-pole Clutter Vac put on the van. ;D
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I saw Ionix on a van (probably on here). I'm thinking of having On-me-pole Clutter Vac put on the van. ;D
;D
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How about:-
Ionyx Reech & Wosh? ;D
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I saw Ionix on a van (probably on here). I'm thinking of having On-me-pole Clutter Vac put on the van. ;D
How can you have a DIY Reach & Wash system? Reach & Wash is Ionics trademark :P
Try the search feature, HOT has been mention many times.
More likely to get replies by filling out your profile details etc btw. ;)
Can you really get done (sued) for using the term "Reach & Wash" ::)
What about...
"reach & wash"
"Wash & Reach"
"Reach and Wash"
or "Reach Clean & Wash" (which I've seen used!)
So I can't write on my literature ...using latest Reach & Wash technology... ??? :o
I call my "Vax" carpet cleaner a "Hoover"!
If I advertised it as a "Vax, hoover" would I be breaking trades descriptions? :'(
Thousands of hoovers, thousands of names... only one job! :-\ :-\
;D ;D dont open that can or worms ;D ;D
oh go on then, its allways a good un ;)
;D ;D ;D
I read this some time ago and changed my wording from
...using latest Reach & Wash technology... to...
...using Water Fed Pole (WFP) technology...
I might even be wrong using that term.... Aaghhhhhh :-\ :-\ ::) ???
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How can you have a DIY Reach & Wash system? Reach & Wash is Ionics trademark :P
Try the search feature, HOT has been mention many times.
More likely to get replies by filling out your profile details etc btw. ;)
Can you really get done (sued) for using the term "Reach & Wash" ::)
What about...
"reach & wash"
"Wash & Reach"
"Reach and Wash"
or "Reach Clean & Wash" (which I've seen used!)
So I can't write on my literature ...using latest Reach & Wash technology... ??? :o
I call my "Vax" carpet cleaner a "Hoover"!
If I advertised it as a "Vax, hoover" would I be breaking trades descriptions? :'(
Thousands of hoovers, thousands of names... only one job! :-\ :-\
Hoover is a trademark its self, however its now become a known word for a vacuum.
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I've got "Thermoshine", John Garnet has "Thermoclean",... and I've heard of some ppl using "Aquashine".
All better than "Reach & Wash" IMO!!
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If you fit a system such as an L5 heater (often discussed on here) then you will have a cheap hot water system. But bear in mind If you have a seriours road collision your fault or not, then you may find yourself in hot water.
I personally would be suprised if carbon monoxide fumes left in the van from its use would cause you to drift into unconsciousness whilst driving, but the law may not look at it like that.
L5 heaters are designed to be fitted and used outside (weather you open your doors or not when in use) from a regulation point of view if it is fitted in the inside of the vehicle with the gas bottle, it should not be. I suspect your insurance company will be your best friend as they will not pay out if they find out how you have modded your vehicle, you will be the one doing the paying.
Should you be the cause of a serious collision and any subsequent investigation highlights the above then your freedom may be at risk never mind your assets.
Its a matter of are you happy to take the risk or not. Personally i would not be as in my opinion the need is not greater than the risk.
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Thanks for the info discount but i had worked out the system fires up when you actually clean windows and that is why i wrote i personally don't think Carbon monoxide fumes would be an issue.
However my point is would the powers that be see it that way, if you fit a system in a place regulations say it should not be (weather you have fitted a flu or not) then you are at risk from the law.
If this guy wants a hot water system then the point i am trying to make to him is think about the type of system he puts in. This advice is much more constructive than the first two posts and the last sentance on your post.
And by the way i am neither stupid or ill informed if thats what you are aiming at.
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just kidding. no worries. Post deleted. I've just read andrews post. this information is incorrect and misleading.
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ref the fumes
a mushroom style roof vent, under 10 quid on ebay
job done
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kevin do you have a link to varitechs hot system?
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ref the fumes
a mushroom style roof vent, under 10 quid on ebay
job done
I've got 3 of them,.. 1 to vent the exhaust fumes from the heater,.. 2 to let fresh air back in.
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you can even search on ebay for the Fiamma Vent's
they come as a nice unit that will sandwich the roof between them
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Thank you Discount, no hard feelings.
I dont care if guys fit an L5 heater to the steering wheel and configure the flow valve to run the burner constantly, previous post just thinking outside the box.
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I know what you are saying NWH
For anyone else please don't get the intention of my post wrong.
I don't have anything at all against DIY and have no axe to grind because I don't supply hot water systems.
Far from bad mouthing it I honestly really liked the idea of a very well priced hot water option for those that wanted it from a supplier. As stated what I have said is based on the research that I have done from a suppliers point of view and so far it just doesn't look viable as a low cost option.
If my research has come up with wrong info then I apologise. I did speak directly to Calor about this. Not a receptionist or the like it was someone in their tech department who gave me the info.
Some interesting reading can be found here www.bcga.co.uk/preview/publications/L12005.pdf
Andrew.
Andrew,
I appreciate your thoughts on this subject but wondered whether you could quote the specific REGULATION under HWSA (1974) or HSG65, DESEAR or maybe ADR or possibly another Regulation, Act, ACOP or maybe the European 6 pack....which bans the use of Liquid Gas (Butane or Propane) - normally known as "LPG" for use in a vehicle?
I'm not quite sure which Regulation you are quoting or applying as evidence of a breach...and which Regulation is being breached?
Motorhomes DO NOT require a 'gas tight' compartment for their LPG bottles.
For the sake of clarification for all concerned, please could you quote (or ask Calor to quote) the EXACT REGULATION for carrying a 19Kg bottle of LPG which REGULATION is being breached - what section? what sub section? what heading? and what term?
Many thanks and best wishes
David.
My own research -
www.hse.gov.uk/cdg/manual/adrcarriage.htm
www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg370.pdf
ec.europa.eu/enterprise/pressure_equipment/ped/index_en.html
www.hse.gov.uk/foi/internalops/hid/din/517.pdf
www.hse.gov.uk/gas/domestic/contacts.htm
www.hse.gov.uk/fireandexplosion/dsear/background.htm
None of which mentions anything you have quoted?
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This was the man at calors (not the receptionist unfortunately who may have been a bit better informed) view point. This view is one that takes the safest line from the companies perspective of not giving out either duff or culpable info.
Ask anyone in gas and usually they won't tell you anything and direct you towards a corgi engineer. As Nwh stated concept are pretty thorough. Andrew is a good guy. He is right that this is a none starter as a supplier, but wrong as you point out David about the substance.The example he did not give was that of blacksmiths.
This is one of those, it's illegal to use ladders things.
Your posts are always very well thought through and well researched mr slater.You are probably a bit wasted on here.
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Here's a link to some lpg guidelines it doesn't specifically cover what we may use it for it does cover mobile catering and the same gas regs would be equally relevant I would imagine. http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/cais23.pdf
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Yawn.. morning all :D
Thanks for the replies. David.. I started to look at all that stuff you posted links to and ended up something like this ::) ::)
I haven't got the time or the attention span and me reading glasses need replacing ;)
I find that if you trawl the net enough re regulations on anything you will end up with all sorts of different interpretations possible. Discount is quite right. It's a bit like the ladder regs situation so I thought it best to get it from the horses mouth so to speak and phoned Calor.
I told them exactly what I wanted to do and got the replies that I have posted.
As to quoting reg number X sub section Y etc I can't and didn't ask Calor for them either. I did discuss it in depth and was satisfied with the info that I was given. Calor are in the business of selling gas so I doubt that they would give info that prevents them from doing it. This could be a very lucrative market for them.
I was researching it from a suppliers point of view and indeed it is a no go. Not just from a financial standpoint. Liability could be a very major issue as well.
As I said I have no axe to grind re this at all. I don't currently sell hot systems. There is still a great demand for cold systems and I am already booked up into mid January fitting them.
From a purely personal point of view if I were to consider fitting a system like this for my own use window cleaning I would want to make very sure that I did comply with any regulations because as has been pointed out insurance etc could be a very major issue.
Peple like Matt have gone to great lengths re ventilation against CO2 which is laudable. I didn't even get to that point. It was merely the carriage and storage of the gas bottle that put the mockers on it for me :(
All the best to you all :)
Andrew
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Andrew,
I wasn't trying to pick a fight or question your integrity :)
I too had looked at the Regs and just couldnt find anything which applied to us!
When you said Calor had told you it was 'no go'.. I wasnt trying to question this advice or call you a liar!!
I was really interested (and pleased!) someone had actually found a piece of legistlation concerning our use of gas.
I just wanted to read the Regulation that was being breached and thought maybe they'd told you which one it was.
Regards
David.
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David. Honestly I know you weren't trying to pick a fight or anything like that at all :)
It transpires thanks to your very thorough research that the info given to me by Calor was in essence wrong to a great extent.
:-[ :-[
A member of this forum very kindly called me today and directed me to the info posted by you on another site. I must say how impressed I am by it and want to say thank you. :)
There are some basic common sense things that anyone fitting this type of system have to adhere to. Even these probably make it not practicle to offer the systems as a supplier. Time will tell I suppose.
Andrew
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Here's a link to some lpg guidelines it doesn't specifically cover what we may use it for it does cover mobile catering and the same gas regs would be equally relevant I would imagine. http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/cais23.pdf
No mobile catering is different, as the user is working in close proximity in an enclosed space to the gas bottle.
David Slater has suggested this would be no good for our purposes and that also includes that of gas bottles with use of caravans etc due to habitation.
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As long as Dave says its Ok then it must be ;)
Personally as qualified plumber and after 2 years working on gas appliances, there is know way I would contemplate doing what some on here are doing, "Gas appliances should be fitted by a competent person" is what I was trying to point out in the link, I think that would apply to most installations used in any confined space with a van is.
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if you have a van with a side door, it would be very easy to " box off " the area of the sliding door, fit the heater to that and have the sliding door open, no-1 would be able to get into the van as it would be secured by " boxing off ", which could very easy be made to be air tight and secure
thus a separate area for the heater
job done
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As long as Dave says its Ok then it must be ;)
Personally as qualified plumber and after 2 years working on gas appliances, there is know way I would contemplate doing what some on here are doing, "Gas appliances should be fitted by a competent person" is what I was trying to point out in the link, I think that would apply to most installations used in any confined space with a van is.
The installation is fine according to David on another forum! he's been in contact with the HSE, DoT and some other place that deal with gas, cant remember exactly..
There is a list of requirements you need to follow etc.
The appliance once ive installed it will be checked by a corgi regged engineer anyway.
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how hot do you want the water?
I carry a 100gl tank which is has a heater coil connected to the van cooling system, as I drive between jobs it heats the water up. The tank is Insulated.
it also has a immersion element fitted so I can plug it in overnight ( or at a customers house) to pre-heat the water.
might be an alternative to fuel fired systems
mike
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As usual sound practical advice from Matt- i asked him these questions over a year ago. Some vans driving around actually do have side doors inserted into a panel.
This is what i think, but it is not what i know as a fact, What i think is that the purpose of having a seperate compartment with a door (on a motor home, caravan, etc) is that in the event of a fire, or indeed any kind of emergency the gas bottles can be accessed quickly without having to physicaly go into the body of something that could be dangerous.
Other suppliers have researched this and liability definitely is the stop issue. Nathaneal found some interesting info, the giste of which was that for a self fit there is no more real installation than exceeds the simple connection that gas barbecue users and caravan owners do quite legally and properly.
There are a couple of technical points (loop holes) that Nathaneal and I are aware of that would make it okay for a supplier.
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ref storage gas bottle lockers
h ttp://www.force4.co.uk/339/Force-4-Gas-Bottle-Locker.html
you will need to cut a hole in your van though
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how hot do you want the water?
I carry a 100gl tank which is has a heater coil connected to the van cooling system, as I drive between jobs it heats the water up. The tank is Insulated.
it also has a immersion element fitted so I can plug it in overnight ( or at a customers house) to pre-heat the water.
might be an alternative to fuel fired systems
mike
Now THAT is very interesting :D
You've replaced the dangerous with a less dangerous option (substitution)
You dont carry ANY flammable liquid (be it gas diesel or petrol)...but you still get hot water. Which at the end of the day, is all we need.
I'm really interested in this system. Have you got any pictures or diagrams or anything Mike.
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We've done all this- and properly- or at least wayne did search calorifier topics. It don't work. He bought an omni retrofit instead.
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I was under the impression Waynes system did work?
Its a very good idea,.. eco friendly,.. free to run,... helps old vans not to overheat!!
The calorifier tanks aren't cheap though,...
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I was under the impression Waynes system did work?
Its a very good idea,.. eco friendly,.. free to run,... helps old vans not to overheat!!
The calorifier tanks aren't cheap though,...
It does work. I use both systems.
Retro fit Omnipole on demand heater which is reliable except it has a set temperature and runs on diesel.
I also use a calorifier system connected up to my van radiator system and plumbed it all up to my tank, pump and flow controller. This will get excessively hot at times...too hot for window cleaning sometimes. The calorifier heat system is a green, eco-friendly, hybrid way forward for window, guttering, fascia, soffit & cladding cleaning when the temperature and heat source can be improved. I have played around with plenty of little ideas using this system and have found many ways to make it much more economical and practical to run this heat system for everyday wfp use which I plan to do when I fit my new set up into my next van when these difficult and uncertain financial times are behind us.
I would happily explain all my heat and cost saving ideas, but only to a wfp supplier who is interested in building a hot water fed system with minimal running costs totally from the ground upwards, but only in return for one of their completely new built thermal wfp systems, fitted and trialled as a freebie into my van as an experimental offer, as I have invested a lot of time and ideas on this eco way forward on the cheapest method of heating water for wfp use without the need to use gas or diesel. If any supplier would like to see my set up working and have my ideas fully explained to them feel free to get in touch via my website: www.windowswashed.co.uk
Varitech now sell their own hot wfp system, partly because I persuaded Mike about the benefits of using a hot wfp system a while back. I have plenty of ideas of utilising free heat and preventing cold wfp sytems freezing up overnight during winter months but I don't have the financial funding or time to put all my ideas into the commercial wfp market hence if a wfp supplier is reading this reply I am open to discussion.
IMO this would and could be the way forward for an alternative and practical Thermal wfp system if a big supplier could have this system manufactured and sell at an attractive price to the window cleaning and car valeting market.
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Wayne knows what he's talking about and all his information is genuine.
I notice he is now a guest, and must have deleted his account.
I hope this is not at disgust at my comment 'it doesn't work'. I apologise for this because it clearly does. I was trying to summarise a very complex issue and I mean't that having done it about as ingenuisely as is possible wayne had still purchased a retro fit. I can see how my comments might have peeed him off and if that is the case then i regret them.
I don't think this is anything to do with me, but you never know.
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What if the water was heated in the safety of your garage after your static tank and just transferred to an insulated van tank first thing in the morning?
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What if the water was heated in the safety of your garage after your static tank and just transferred to an insulated van tank first thing in the morning?
seems like a really good idea 8)
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I dunno but your heater could be electric or run off the household gas or even be some kind of immersion tank? No problems with safety then.
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Remember the regs are more inportant for commercial use rather than if you were just using it for yourself.
ie if you were renting your house out , you would need a gas certificate for the boiler etc.
I know this is for catering but i reckon some of it applies to commercial use.
http://www.calorgas.co.uk/safety/using-calor-gas-safely/Guidelines-for-the-safe-use-of-LPG-in-mobile-catering-units.pdf
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This where trade associations come in handy.
I would urge any mobile heater users to contact your federation or trade association.
If you are taking money from your members and giving them advice, do you know you could be held responsible.
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This where trade associations come in handy.
I would urge any mobile heater users to contact your federation or trade association.
If you are taking money from your members and giving them advice, do you know you could be held responsible.
And which federation or trade association is "giving advice" on this subject Dave?
Are you suggesting that somebody who has done their own research and posted up their findings in response to a question from another member on a discussion forum somehow implies the association itself can be deemed to be "giving" that "advice" ?
As I'm sure CIU is aware, it doesnt matter if you are taking money or not:
If you DEFAME someones character or business or trade association, that person AND the forum host are liable.
Why not just ring the relevant government bodies directly and ASK THEM!! ;D
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David
I could be wrong but the guild and its linked website, look like they are giving advice to there members on how to make a diy gas set up.
As I said I could be wrong.
My advice would be , dont do it. I am sure the fed would give advice along those lines too.
Dave
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i've told him loads of times, i'm a bit like a stuck record, but he just doesn't seem to see the risk, and it goes very much beyond the case you make.
For all my blathering I have never given direct advice, apart from bypass' etc.
The advise in your link was fairly clear. There is a difference though.
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Hi, mates.
We have equiped the first hot wfp system for the tradeshow in Moscow last week. We used two types of Webasto Thermo Top h ttp://www.webasto.com/products/en/3115_3422.html ... plus air heater.
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more
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.. more pictures at h_ttp://www.moemgorod.ru/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=27&Itemid=54
regards,
Vadim / MoemGorod™
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David
I could be wrong but the guild and its linked website, look like they are giving advice to there members on how to make a diy gas set up.
As I said I could be wrong.
My advice would be , dont do it. I am sure the fed would give advice along those lines too.
Dave
Dave,
I hear what you're saying and to some degree, I can see you are making a valid point. It would come down to interpretation I suppose.
However, after re-reading my own posts and those of other members on this subject, I think it is fair to say they are in no way offering advice. They have done their own research/testing and offered it up on a discussion forum for "discussion". When questions have been asked - answers have been given (from their own perspective).
Surely that is no different to somebody saying soft rubbers are rubbish or hard rubber are brilliant? - they have done their own research and come to a conclusion which they have shared when the subject arose.
There are literally hundreds of posts covering hundreds of topics, gas systems is just one of them.
Gas systems seem to form a rather large part of discussions on CIU as well ;) Should we delete/ban them on CIU?
You have opened up a very interesting topic though - - -
Should we also ban discussions of DI vessels in vehicles....surely a breach manual handling Regs?
What about discussing carrying poles without using 'safe' containers...surely a breach of MHSWA?
What about systems that have not been ergonomically designed forcing the user to lean or step into the vehicle to reach controls....surely a breach of PUWER and MHSWA and Manual Handling and WAHR?
......should I go on? ;)
If the Fed or CIU was accepting payment from companies that offered products which possibly breached any of these Regs...do you think it fair to say that as they brought them to the attention of members (through paid advertisement) that they should be held jointly and severally liable for any breach or civil/legal action?
If Nat was selling a guide on 'How To' set up a gas system, then that would be a totally different kettle of fish...and I'd be right behind you 100%
The Guild offers far more than just this one topic so I think it would be unfair to suggest Nat is taking money to seel a 'How To' guide.....all just my own thoughts of course :)
Regards
David.
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He was offering a guide, free on joining or by purchase on ebay. Plus mods to relays etc.Good guy, but living dangerous.
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He was offering a guide, free on joining or by purchase on ebay. Plus mods to relays etc.Good guy, but living dangerous.
Thank you DWC...
I'm off to have a chat (and slap somebodies legs!) if this is correct >:(
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David
I didnt post to be contoversial or anything , its just the way i see things.
The Guild takes money, it has set itself up as a window cleaning Association, club, guild, whatever you want to call it. You have to be careful how you tread.
I know from my time with the apwc there are certain things you can and cant do.
Dave
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The last week or 2 has been interesting on here. There is now a much better debate about the responsibilities and associated cover and costs of getting hot diy.
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The last week or 2 has been interesting on here. There is now a much better debate about the responsibilities and associated cover and costs of getting hot diy.
Read a little more Mark.....
Its not only HOT sytems that have issues under the Regulations ;)
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David
I could be wrong but the guild and its linked website, look like they are giving advice to there members on how to make a diy gas set up.
As I said I could be wrong.
My advice would be , dont do it. I am sure the fed would give advice along those lines too.
Dave
Dave,
I offer my sincere apologies.
It seems you did indeed have a valid poiint to make. Thank you for drawing my (and others!) attention to this subject.
This is what its all about guys - LEARNING and evolving together :)
Thank you for the info Dave.
Kind regards
David.
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please forgive master slater i know he can be a little bit anal
but his hearts in the right place :)
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please forgive master slater i know he can be a little bit anal
but his hearts in the right place :)
And he does research a topic before he posts ;)
and that doesnt include my 'mate down the pub said'......