Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: clear-view on November 17, 2008, 10:55:36 pm
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How do you normally go about recruiting guys to work for you and how reliable do you find them to be. I'm fed up with guys wanting a job and then telling me night before they dont want it or even worse just not turning up on first day. anyone else experience this
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tell me about the ones not turning up! i had the same in 2 weeks, 2 guys not turning up with no phone call or explanation...
if you dont want any stress mate, get rid of some of your smaller work and work on the bigger stuff and earn some good money
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Do you think its generally across the board, this attitude?... people not turning up... not lasting...
or do you think its because its window cleaning... and they either get stick from family/friends..... or they realise at the last minute that its not what they want....
for the same reasons above.
Im just curious, because i still get raised eyebrow,... funny looks, and even... "are you really window cleaning seriously"?
so i just wondered.
im not knocking what we do, because i love it. ;)
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2 of my guys have worked for about 4 other companys and both have said that the way i run things is by far better and they don't feel as much like dogs and i show them respect!
I'm not greedy. if they finish early they go home with full pay. I have my targets. once there reached they go home.
I have various systems in place to keep an eye on what's going on. this has proved invaluable. as every now and the rein can be pulled in to keep things on course
I think its probably a combination of various things of how to make employing successful. but i guess what springs to my mind when handling most situations is "If i was employed by me, would i do what i asked if i said it like that?" i guess i'm saying treat people as you would expect to be treated yourself. paying good money probably helps as well ;)
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I think the thought of just getting out of bed in the morning nd doing some work actually puts a lot of people off nowadays. weather does not help. I also think when you tell guys you are expecting so much to be done but your only paying a lot less than they are bringing in they dont seem to realise the expenses that we have like insurance equipment tax licenses etc they think clean £15 worth of work in an hour and are only paid £7 means we have £8 profit they are far wrong.
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clean £15 worth of work in an hour and are only paid £7 means we have £8 profit they are far wrong.
that would be your problem from the start. you couldn't build a viable business on them only brining in £15 per hour!!
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We do window cleaning probably because we enjoy doing it - i know i do. Its not that great a job for those that dont have pleasure in doing so.
Out in most weathers, cold, miserable - and thats just the custies.. nah kidding but you know what i mean :P
Very few new starts ups actually make it cos its much harder than they think to build up a decent round whilst combating the weather, and people you take on, will just treat is as any other "job". They say all the rights things at an interview but when it comes to it, are not all there.. Especially when if there on min wage or thereabouts its better for them to work in the comfort and warmth of a pub or restaurant for example.
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clean £15 worth of work in an hour and are only paid £7 means we have £8 profit they are far wrong.
that would be your problem from the start. you couldn't build a viable business on them only brining in £15 per hour!!
i would have to disagree with you on this a lot of businesses make a profit from charging less than £15 an hour a lot of our large jobs pay less than this and we still make an healthy profit and often still get undercut on price
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clean £15 worth of work in an hour and are only paid £7 means we have £8 profit they are far wrong.
that would be your problem from the start. you couldn't build a viable business on them only brining in £15 per hour!!
i would have to disagree with you on this a lot of businesses make a profit from charging less than £15 an hour a lot of our large jobs pay less than this and we still make an healthy profit and often still get undercut on price
Hi Trevor,
I have to agree with you on this.
Most companies not all work on an average of 30% profit labour only.
If you pay some one £7.00 an hour well 30% profit £2.01 thats £9.01 in total.
Now if your getting £15.00 for every £7.00 you are on around 113% profit. per hour.
If you cannot run a successful business on that well you should go and work for some one else.
Because even if you take out insurance for that person... yes the cost will vary but on average its around £78.00 per person. So I think if you have even a small business you should still make a tidy profit.
Dave
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I had someone approach me who was on the dole about a "Work Trial" which means they can work for you for two weeks without pay (They still get all their benefits). After the two weeks you can either take them on or tell them they are not suitable. You just have to register with the Job Centre, who check you are adequately insured etc:-. You can tell after the first day if there the right person for the job. I believe you can do this for up to a year.
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clean £15 worth of work in an hour and are only paid £7 means we have £8 profit they are far wrong.
that would be your problem from the start. you couldn't build a viable business on them only brining in £15 per hour!!
i would have to disagree with you on this a lot of businesses make a profit from charging less than £15 an hour a lot of our large jobs pay less than this and we still make an healthy profit and often still get undercut on price
you must have masses of man hours to be able to return a tidy profit on each employee. how many do you employ???
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It can be about the numbers of hours.
Obviously yes the more hours you have, the less you can charge the client.
As I have said before my main area at present is Contract Office cleaning, Janitorial supples, Sanitary bins etc etc.
I have only recently started an add on service Window Cleaning.
But the ethics of business remains the same no matter what line of work you are in.
I personally work on an average of 30 - 70% but you have to remember that £15 per hour on window cleaning on avaerage house that will be about 3 residential houses as on average they only take 20 minutes. So You have got around £35 in one hour so your employee has only cost you £7.00 in 60 minutes.
Thats a profit of 400% with the costs of insurance etc
Commercial work is obviuosly prices different and more expensive.. know your market and your competitors. If you want the work.. give excelent work at the cheapest possible. While still retaining a profit thats worth while..
But as to recruiting put them on a trial, go with them as if and when they do not turn up, you can or another employee cover it. After a while and trust is built up then let them on their own
Dave
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i have just done my sums on £15 an hour and it looks like a lot of hassle for minimal return unless your talking 20 employees plus.
your margins sound a little similar to my dads business but his mark up is lower than that but he has about 200 people out working a day. i can see the logic when your talking a mass amount of people like that but for anyone employing say under 20 i can't see the return there
am i missing something?
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No your not missing the point.
But to you it may not seem as there is much point. But how are you going to build a company then. Lets say you are in the early stages of growth.
The only way to grow is
1. Have the work
2 Have the man power & technology to do the work.
Now if a client asked for a tender and said right I am offering you this, lets face it alot of tenders are given to people by back handers or who they know.
He says this job is £50, 000 a year. + vat yes im VAT registered!
Sounds alot but its 18 hours a day x 2 staff + 1 supervisor 3 times a week.
Plus all chemicals everything included.
Now work out even if on mimumum wage what that is.
Now work out the cost of actually running the the contract with all the equipment and chemicals everything incl travel. Plus staff cover holiday...
Would you turn it down just because you dont get more than 12% profit P.A
There are huge companies out there with less profit than that. per job.
If you want to grow then dont be too greedy! Alot of people are too greedy and trust me even on that price and 12% profit many companies will undercut that.
Dave
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I personally work on an average of 30 - 70% but you have to remember that £15 per hour on window cleaning on avaerage house that will be about 3 residential houses as on average they only take 20 minutes. So You have got around £35 in one hour so your employee has only cost you £7.00 in 60 minutes.
I don't understand this, Dave. Can you explain it again. Thanks
Mike
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I personally work on an average of 30 - 70% but you have to remember that £15 per hour on window cleaning on avaerage house that will be about 3 residential houses as on average they only take 20 minutes. So You have got around £35 in one hour so your employee has only cost you £7.00 in 60 minutes.
I don't understand this, Dave. Can you explain it again. Thanks
Mike
We were working on £15.00 per hour for an employee.
You pay the employee £7.00 per hour
On average and its only an example..
It will take your employee to do 3 houses in 60 minutes. Thats cost you £7.00
You have from your customer £35.00
- Minus £7 That leaves you with £28.00 Now work that out over a day. Then a week.
It works out at 400& profit with out insurance etc
Hope that helps. Steve CM said that if your are going on £15.00 for an employee that is where you are going wrong. And I disagree.
Dave
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No your not missing the point.
But to you it may not seem as there is much point. But how are you going to build a company then. Lets say you are in the early stages of growth.
The only way to grow is
1. Have the work
2 Have the man power & technology to do the work.
Now if a client asked for a tender and said right I am offering you this, lets face it alot of tenders are given to people by back handers or who they know.
He says this job is £50, 000 a year. + vat yes im VAT registered!
Sounds alot but its 18 hours a day x 2 staff + 1 supervisor 3 times a week.
Plus all chemicals everything included.
Now work out even if on mimumum wage what that is.
Now work out the cost of actually running the the contract with all the equipment and chemicals everything incl travel. Plus staff cover holiday...
Would you turn it down just because you dont get more than 12% profit P.A
There are huge companies out there with less profit than that. per job.
If you want to grow then dont be too greedy! Alot of people are too greedy and trust me even on that price and 12% profit many companies will undercut that.
Dave
to me its not greed my friend! ;) to me its about working smart!! regardless of what other companys are doing. for the average wc £15 is to small! your talking about a mass of business. i've looked into the contract cleaning sector myself but came to the conclusion its to much hard work for minimal return.
maybe later when i'm bigger i may look at it. but when there is wc work out there that can earn masses more than £15 an hour thats where i will concentrate my efforts first.
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I personally work on an average of 30 - 70% but you have to remember that £15 per hour on window cleaning on avaerage house that will be about 3 residential houses as on average they only take 20 minutes. So You have got around £35 in one hour so your employee has only cost you £7.00 in 60 minutes.
I don't understand this, Dave. Can you explain it again. Thanks
Mike
We were working on £15.00 per hour for an employee.
You pay the employee £7.00 per hour
On average and its only an example..
It will take your employee to do 3 houses in 60 minutes. Thats cost you £7.00
You have from your customer £35.00
- Minus £7 That leaves you with £28.00 Now work that out over a day. Then a week.
It works out at 400& profit with out insurance etc
Hope that helps. Steve CM said that if your are going on £15.00 for an employee that is where you are going wrong. And I disagree.
Dave
you won't get any decent wc's on £7 an hour. you will only employ muppetts.
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It can be about the numbers of hours.
Obviously yes the more hours you have, the less you can charge the client.
As I have said before my main area at present is Contract Office cleaning, Janitorial supples, Sanitary bins etc etc.
I have only recently started an add on service Window Cleaning.
But the ethics of business remains the same no matter what line of work you are in.
I personally work on an average of 30 - 70% but you have to remember that £15 per hour on window cleaning on avaerage house that will be about 3 residential houses as on average they only take 20 minutes. So You have got around £35 in one hour so your employee has only cost you £7.00 in 60 minutes.
Thats a profit of 400% with the costs of insurance etc
Commercial work is obviuosly prices different and more expensive.. know your market and your competitors. If you want the work.. give excelent work at the cheapest possible. While still retaining a profit thats worth while..
But as to recruiting put them on a trial, go with them as if and when they do not turn up, you can or another employee cover it. After a while and trust is built up then let them on their own
Dave
thats not £15 per hour, if he does 3 houses in an hour, thats a minimum of £30 / hr ...
i dont understand where your £15 comes from ???
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you won't get any decent wc's on £7 an hour. you will only employ muppetts.
In most cases I would agree! But there are so many people out there without jobs in this economic climate. But that hourly rate was just an example.
And not everyone is on £30 + an hour that do window cleaning. Sorry to say it not the highest paid profession, neither is Contract cleaning.
Plus not everyone wants to run their own business and wants to be a fat cat!
There are lots millions of people just on minimum wage, thats one of the reasons many of us work for ourselves, have opur own business Yes its about working smart I agree 100%
Im not saying people can't do more or dont pay more yes they obviously do, Ive seen adverts for window cleaner here in Kent for £700 p/w advertised in the KM. But you have to do a reasonable amount of mid terraced houses to make that employee pay and earn a profit.
Commercial work is different and you can earn more and price higher.
Dave
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clean £15 worth of work in an hour and are only paid £7 means we have £8 profit they are far wrong.
that would be your problem from the start. you couldn't build a viable business on them only brining in £15 per hour!!
i would have to disagree with you on this a lot of businesses make a profit from charging less than £15 an hour a lot of our large jobs pay less than this and we still make an healthy profit and often still get undercut on price
See the quote, thats where the £15.00 came from.
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a guy asked me for a job,i said ok 10pound a hour,he saidi will do it for five pound a house ::) ::),told him to stay on the dole
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An as for just getting muppets for £7.00 an hour if you look on the jobcentre website there are many many jobs only paying around £7 - 10 mark.
So every business runs that pay scheme alnost. Otherwise you need alot of work
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An as for just getting muppets for £7.00 an hour if you look on the jobcentre website there are many many jobs only paying around £7 - 10 mark.
So every business runs that pay scheme alnost. Otherwise you need alot of work
i offered 10 he was the biggest muppet 7pound a hour to get off the dole is still a good wage,work is work,lots of companys still paying mimium wage
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a guy asked me for a job,i said ok 10pound a hour,he saidi will do it for five pound a house ::) ::),told him to stay on the dole
Well done Trike, some one here with Buisiness sense.......at last
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I don`t know why your all talking about paying someone £7 an hour,if you think you`ll get someone reliable a smart looking for that per hour you`d have more chance in seeing Lord Lucan riding Shergar down your local high street lol. ;D ;D
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I don`t know why your all talking about paying someone £7 an hour,if you think you`ll get someone reliable a smart looking for that per hour you`d have more chance in seeing Lord Lucan riding Shergar down your local high street lol. ;D ;D
your right NWH. if you want to employ trustworthy people you can rely on you need to pay more than 7 squid!
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To get someone to be enthusiastic about you and your business between £12-£15 per hour would be more realistic IMO.
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there are thousands of people who will work for £7 an hour, but they will be on the lookout for something better, hense they wont last long....
i say if you have a good worker , you want to keep him so you would need to pay him well!
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If you pay them 7 quid an hour they won`t give a monkeys what job they do would you,if there getting more from you than they will elsewhere they`ll go knowhere.You must provide better than the next man otherwise they`ll be off in next to no time.
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I don`t know why your all talking about paying someone £7 an hour,if you think you`ll get someone reliable a smart looking for that per hour you`d have more chance in seeing Lord Lucan riding Shergar down your local high street lol. ;D ;D
Really! I have many staff on that wage. With no problems. I take it many of you have not looked on the www.jobcentre.gov.uk at a job latlely... there are many many jobs there including window cleaners. Willing to work for that. And reliable.
Many of you obviously dont know how to manage companies... or live in dream world. Or just like people to think you are earning beyond what is not achievable.
Come on its about time people were realistic for a change.... If you pay an employee all of them £100 per day that say 5 employees x 5 days thats £2,500 per week over a 52 week period that £130, 000 pounds. Thats not even counting your wage..
Well I am doing something wrong and will trade in my Jaguar, for a lambourgini...
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If you pay them 7 quid an hour they won`t give a monkeys what job they do would you,if there getting more from you than they will elsewhere they`ll go knowhere.You must provide better than the next man otherwise they`ll be off in next to no time.
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I don`t know why your all talking about paying someone £7 an hour,if you think you`ll get someone reliable a smart looking for that per hour you`d have more chance in seeing Lord Lucan riding Shergar down your local high street lol. ;D ;D
Really! I have many staff on that wage. With no problems. I take it many of you have not looked on the www.jobcentre.gov.uk at a job latlely... there are many many jobs there including window cleaners. Willing to work for that. And reliable.
Many of you obviously dont know how to manage companies... or live in dream world. Or just like people to think you are earning beyond what is not achievable.
Come on its about time people were realistic for a change.... If you pay an employee all of them £100 per day that say 5 employees x 5 days thats £2,500 per week over a 52 week period that £130, 000 pounds. Thats not even counting your wage..
Well I am doing something wrong and will trade in my Jaguar, for a lambourgini...
pristine. no need to get shirty mate ;)
if it works for you thats great. i'm not willing to disclose earnings and stuff.
as the dragons would say. "i'm out" and i have contributed enough to this subject! :-X
;D ;D
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I don`t know why your all talking about paying someone £7 an hour,if you think you`ll get someone reliable a smart looking for that per hour you`d have more chance in seeing Lord Lucan riding Shergar down your local high street lol. ;D ;D
Really! I have many staff on that wage. With no problems. I take it many of you have not looked on the www.jobcentre.gov.uk at a job latlely... there are many many jobs there including window cleaners. Willing to work for that. And reliable.
Many of you obviously dont know how to manage companies... or live in dream world. Or just like people to think you are earning beyond what is not achievable.
Come on its about time people were realistic for a change.... If you pay an employee all of them £100 per day that say 5 employees x 5 days thats £2,500 per week over a 52 week period that £130, 000 pounds. Thats not even counting your wage..
Well I am doing something wrong and will trade in my Jaguar, for a lambourgini...
Un shaven half witts wouldn`t be far from the truth i`ll bet.
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I to can`t see any future in it so i`m out too lol. ;D ;D
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i agree with you totally pristine, to me you appear to have been in business a long time and have worked hard to be succesful. you are still in touch with reality and the people who work for you. its easy to get carried away when your gettig a good rate. But nothing lasts forever, prices are falling. though i have just won a couple of good commercial jobs in MK by pricing realistically. Also i paid a lady cleaner £7 hour, she does an a1 job and not had a single problem in over 2 years, so have just put her on £8 per hour.
Jon
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i agree with you totally pristine, to me you appear to have been in business a long time and have worked hard to be succesful. you are still in touch with reality and the people who work for you. its easy to get carried away when your gettig a good rate. But nothing lasts forever, prices are falling. though i have just won a couple of good commercial jobs in MK by pricing realistically. Also i paid a lady cleaner £7 hour, she does an a1 job and not had a single problem in over 2 years, so have just put her on £8 per hour.
Jon
Thak you Jon,
Its nice to see that I am not alone...
I do the exact same thing... I have employees all on different rates due to skills, reliability, performance... the list goes on.
You dont just employ anyone and put them on £7.50 an hour, you test the water first....
Dave
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Havin' gettin' the right staff in the first place, which can be a bit of a mare, get them to go
self-employed so they have their own insurance, tax etc: Without sounding too negative, sometimes its easier keeping enough work for yourself, & don't employ. Good luck.
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I had someone approach me who was on the dole about a "Work Trial" which means they can work for you for two weeks without pay (They still get all their benefits). After the two weeks you can either take them on or tell them they are not suitable. You just have to register with the Job Centre, who check you are adequately insured etc:-. You can tell after the first day if there the right person for the job. I believe you can do this for up to a year.
15 days they can do, which is 3 work weeks :) been in job centre today :) and if they are on a "new deal" scheme, if you take them on you will get a £60 a week subsidy to there wage from the government :) however the catch is that to be on a new deal they have been out of work for between 12-18 months, so the question is WHY? however im sure there are some genuine cases few and far between that have perhaps been ill or etc and now want to work, so it could work, apparently the success rate is high because the work trial isnt pushed on any unemployment benefit recipients, they ask to do it, and are thus essentially asking to work for free (or at least the figure they get for doing nothing already) so as to get a job so they must have some good qualities somewhere to do that, and you get 3 weeks to find out, with no obligation of employing, you must have a decent reason not to emply but this can be as simple (but quite relevant) as they were late, etc.....something to think about i know i am for new year :)
In reference to previous posts, what would you pay an employee who was bringing in 1000 a week, and what would be the associated costs, and the average profit to you after all expenses, i have been working with this figures but have no experiece in employing so cant be sure....any help??
Thanks
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To get someone to be enthusiastic about you and your business between £12-£15 per hour would be more realistic IMO.
Are you talking in another currency lira maybe?? 12-15 and hour?? book keepers are lucky to get that and they have gone to college, im not being funny, many of the wc's on here are extremely clever blokes running successful businesses but generally that isnt the kind of guy responding to an ad for window cleaning, and there will always be more employees than you can shake a stick at that will work for 7 an hr happily and well, i worked hard for £5 an hr contract cleaning in some scruffy hell holes not long ago, and at nights scrubbing warehouse floors for £7 an hr and that 70 on saturday nights was brilliant to me then, only a few yrs ago, not evryone expects the wage you earn as sole trader :)
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As well as doing window cleaning i am also a forensic psychiatric nursing assistant. For those who dont know forensic means dealing with serious criminals and it only pays £7.38ph
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exactly. i was recently looking through jobs because i am doing courses in book keeping etc, and wondered what it pays working for someone - it is not alot! £7 is standard when starting out, dont get me wrong if your work is extremely well paid and you want to keep a member of staff then great, but day to day work i cant see it is possible to justify the effort of employing if you are giving them 15 an hour!! Because by the time you pay for holidays, fuel, insurance, equipment, tax and ni, marketing etc the list goes on, you will be lucky to get minimum wage for yourself !!! :)
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Maybe its the other parts of the country but ive never seen a window cleaning job advertised between 12 and £15.00 in my life, personaly if i did i wud give it up and go and work for them ::) 600 a week without the headache come home and do nothing untill i go in again would do me :).
job centre most i have seen is around min wage to £8.00 per hour! jesus at 15.00 your talking managers wages for large companies!
dave
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Maybe its the other parts of the country but ive never seen a window cleaning job advertised between 12 and £15.00 in my life, personaly if i did i wud give it up and go and work for them ::) 600 a week without the headache come home and do nothing untill i go in again would do me :).
job centre most i have seen is around min wage to £8.00 per hour! jesus at 15.00 your talking managers wages for large companies!
dave
I used to earn between £600-£1200 a week for my old boss and that wasnt enough in my eyes.
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Maybe its the other parts of the country but ive never seen a window cleaning job advertised between 12 and £15.00 in my life, personaly if i did i wud give it up and go and work for them ::) 600 a week without the headache come home and do nothing untill i go in again would do me :).
job centre most i have seen is around min wage to £8.00 per hour! jesus at 15.00 your talking managers wages for large companies!
dave
I used to earn between £600-£1200 a week for my old boss and that wasnt enough in my eyes.
Well, if that's what you use to earn when you worked with someone.
And I take it you must have had at least a tiny bit of advancement on those wages as thats the reaon why we work for ourselves, but not the only reason.
So I have to assume that you own an yaucht, an apartment or two in nightbridge (London), and possibly your own island. And a house or two with a swimmingpool and stables.
Maybe you could write a business plan for my business, the bank will purchase shares straight away. Infact why have you not floated your company on the stock market, it should easy get in the top 100 bluechip list.
I would welcome the advice from such a successful person/
Dave
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I,m actually an eccentric millionaire and have always wanted to clean windows in the snow, frost, ice and freezing rain..........NOT!
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As well as doing window cleaning i am also a forensic psychiatric nursing assistant. For those who dont know forensic means dealing with serious criminals and it only pays £7.38ph
OK now add pension, holidays, sick pay(and shift allowance?) uniform and it's like being on £10/12 an hour s/employed IMO...
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As well as doing window cleaning i am also a forensic psychiatric nursing assistant. For those who dont know forensic means dealing with serious criminals and it only pays £7.38ph
OK now add pension, holidays, sick pay(and shift allowance?) uniform and it's like being on £10/12 an hour s/employed IMO...
OK,
Add all of that, but not every company gives a pension. Not every company gives sick pay. Not every company especially window cleaners and cleaner get a shift allowence.
As with regards to Holiday pay, thats in a persons standard lets say annual pay any ways.
Its not extra, that you get. If an employee goes on holiday his 2 weeks off his wages dont increase for 2 weeks. And a company does not lose out they just pay the same staff, and just ask them to cover or manage with out them
Dave
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I`d love to and willingly pay someone £7 an hour,anyone want a job lol. ;D ;D ;D
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If you lot look at window cleaners, London on the jobcentre they some barely make £8.00 an hours
If you dont believe the www.jobcentreplus.gov.uk site, well then there is no proving it.
Its about time people were realistic.
Yes if you can afford to pay £12 - 15 ph then thats down to you, but I very much actually doubt you pay an employee that. Especially in window cleaning and especially in the financial climate.
Dave