Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: RSWindows on November 17, 2008, 10:55:26 pm
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About to go WFP ;D
Got a few prices for WFP systems...looks not too bad i guess, however i just decided to "go for it" on Friday last week and i have not budgeted for this purchase so it will cause a sting in the pocket for a while :-\
So prices so far for a Delivered system are approx £2000 plus whatever the cost fore a pole or more to the point poles.
Now, i am undecidded weather or not i should just buy a ready made system or do as a lot of people have suggested and turn it into a project and buy the components seperate and do a little DIY.
Anyone done this already? have you still got the list of what u bought and perhaps even the supplyers?
comments also welcome....
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have a look at the DIY forum
<--------------- e.mail me for a link
its really not that hard to do
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e-mail sent :D
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i went wfp 3 months ago. i opted for a diy system. wish i hadn't now. dont get me wrong its great but if you work out the time spent putting it all together making mistakes un thought of extra exspences and loss time i'd of been much better off going up north and getting one of the few factory fitted systems done. serously doode i lost money from having my van off the road due to tank fiting in etc etc.
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hmmmmmmmm..................ok
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Some may find this controversial but I am going to state it anyway.
If you go on my website you won't find "delivered DIY systems" on there.
I have very good reasons for this. Past experience has shown me that they are a nightmare in most cases both for the supplier and the customer. What Mr D has said just about sums it all up really. Unless you are prepared to spend a lot of time on research. Installation. Sourcing the correct parts etc DIY is probably not for you.
IF you are prepared to put a lot of time doing the research and getting to know exactly what you need, how it all works and whwre to get all the parts both large and small then DIY could be for you. Matt's site does have lots of good advice to help.
Gardiners stopped supplying DIY kits a long time ago for the same reasons. I am sure that Alex will back me up on this.
Perhaps DIY was a lot more relevant when van systems were 5 or 6 k minimum but now that companies like mine can supply a fully fitted 40 inch RO system with all the bells and whistles for the same sort of budget that RS has stated for a lot it makes much more sense to go that route.
I am merely stating my own experience here. Anyone is welcome to disagree. Some have done DIY systems very well and are happy with them.
If DIY kits made sense both fo me and the customer I would supply them but they honestly just don't in the case of a complete van system with 40 inch RO etc.
Andrew
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Andrew Mcann, at your prices who would want to bother putting it together themselves!!
Have you spoken to Dave and Martin ( Reading ) I directed them to you for there system. Believe they have a fitting date for December??
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Some may find this controversial but I am going to state it anyway.
If you go on my website you won't find "delivered DIY systems" on there.
I have very good reasons for this. Past experience has shown me that they are a nightmare in most cases both for the supplier and the customer. What Mr D has said just about sums it all up really. Unless you are prepared to spend a lot of time on research. Installation. Sourcing the correct parts etc DIY is probably not for you.
IF you are prepared to put a lot of time doing the research and getting to know exactly what you need, how it all works and whwre to get all the parts both large and small then DIY could be for you. Matt's site does have lots of good advice to help.
Gardiners stopped supplying DIY kits a long time ago for the same reasons. I am sure that Alex will back me up on this.
Perhaps DIY was a lot more relevant when van systems were 5 or 6 k minimum but now that companies like mine can supply a fully fitted 40 inch RO system with all the bells and whistles for the same sort of budget that RS has stated for a lot it makes much more sense to go that route.
I am merely stating my own experience here. Anyone is welcome to disagree. Some have done DIY systems very well and are happy with them.
If DIY kits made sense both fo me and the customer I would supply them but they honestly just don't in the case of a complete van system with 40 inch RO etc.
Andrew
I agree with Andrew the hassle invloved and the price he and others charge is just not worth the hassle, I have had a system designed and fitted and it cost about £400 cheaper than what I was quoted by andrew ( it took hours to source parts and then some did not arrive ect ect ect) I had no choice but to have one designed for me due to Andrew being ill.
So imo if your going to have a wfp dont go the diy bodged route I have see on here time and time again, have it done correctly fitted correctly and at a price a little over what you wuld pay for the parts and with out all the hassle.
Ian
p.s Andrew I hope all is better for you now my friend ;)
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ok. Thanks for the input.
ready-made system it is!
just thaught mabie it could be fun and an ideal way for me to familiarize myself with all the components and give myself a head start with the mechanical side and help in understanding how it all works.
Best quote i have so far is £1800 RO with double DI (soft water area) and a 24ft pole :D that sound like a good deal?
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RSWindows,
I take it you are going for a van mounted system?
Or are you having a static system and a trolley?
Dave
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my diy set up including poles and reels etc comes in at just under a grand
van mount was installed over a weekend
so i worked the friday with my trolley and then on monday i was out with the van set up
i love diy systems and have never really had any problems with mine
i suppose it depends on how confident you feel about doing it yourself
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"Pristine" its a Van mounted system
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my diy set up including poles and reels etc comes in at just under a grand
van mount was installed over a weekend
so i worked the friday with my trolley and then on monday i was out with the van set up
i love diy systems and have never really had any problems with mine
i suppose it depends on how confident you feel about doing it yourself
can you e-mail me please?
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yes mate but can i do it tonight cos i am just about to go out to work
spent most of this morning pricing up a good size commercial job with my mate and now have to make up for lost time ;)
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yes mate but can i do it tonight cos i am just about to go out to work
spent most of this morning pricing up a good size commercial job with my mate and now have to make up for lost time ;)
Nice one!
Yeah of course mate, Thanks!
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Andrew Mcann, at your prices who would want to bother putting it together themselves!!
Have you spoken to Dave and Martin ( Reading ) I directed them to you for there system. Believe they have a fitting date for December??
Yes I have Luke. They are booked in for fitting early December. Thanks for the recommendation :)
RS.. A D.I. only set up will be a lot easier to do than a RO one.
Does that price include a reel... metal cage for the tank and all the fittings that you will need?
Andrew
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Hi Andrew,
Yes that's for 40" R/O with Double Resin sylinders (thingy majigs ;D )
650L baffled tank contained withing an Aluminium frame with Fixings for chasis attatchment
100m hose/reel
24ft pole
Delivery and VAT included
TDS Meter
Battery + Charger
I believe all of the above information to be correct, i will double check before buying though
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Sorry for double post.
Andrew just realised who you were....sorry not 100% familiar with everyone on here yet. Been reading about you for ages, well ive been reading other peoples posts asking if you are ok (healthwise etc)
Anyway hope you are ok and taking one day at a time. I dont know anything about you and can only wish that was different but as a wise man once said (my grandad) "forget money, if you have your health, your rich"
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Sorry for double post.
Andrew just realised who you were....sorry not 100% familiar with everyone on here yet. Been reading about you for ages, well ive been reading other peoples posts asking if you are ok (healthwise etc)
Anyway hope you are ok and taking one day at a time. I dont know anything about you and can only wish that was different but as a wise man once said (my grandad) "forget money, if you have your health, your rich"
Cheers for that mate :) It's very appreciated.
At least I get time to tap away on this forum during the day most days lol :)
If that system is from who I think it is my advice is to snap their hands off.
I am free for a while today so if you want feel free to call me on 01469 566376 and I will give you an honest opinion and any help I can. I am not touting for business. That looks like a very good deal and I know almost every other suppler and will give you an unbiased opinion.
Andrew
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sure will Andrew, call you about 1:30, need to chase up my largest ever contract proposal and see if there has been any progress. The estates surveyor needs to get approval from their H/O in London then needs to get the green light from Director who then has to have a board meeting....bla bla bla :-\
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despite the difference of opinions it is good that people are making them clear as it helps build up a spectrum of situations that others have had.
Which i think can be a usefull tool when like me, just entering into the WFP club.
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So imo if your going to have a wfp dont go the diy bodged route I have see on here time and time again, have it done correctly fitted correctly and at a price a little over what you wuld pay for the parts and with out all the hassle.
bodged DIY route, what because some1 buys a tank a pump and a pole its dodged
thats like saying, the only web sites worth having are "custom made" and we know thats not true, as a template site does EXACTLY the same job or are we still trying to kid people on that aswell
once again, a post rubbishing people who can think for themselves, who can build a system, same old post from you ::) ::) sad really
RSWindows, you need a tank, a pump and controller, some hose and a pole and brush ( with jets ) its not building a space rocket
as YWCS, spend a evening planning what you need, then order it, it will not even take a weekend to fit it all together
L.J.Thorpe has summed it up in his post, if you can drill a few holes, connect some pipe and do up a few nuts and bolts, your done
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do you know exactly how soft the water is in your area ???
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do you know exactly how soft the water is in your area ???
the biggest mistake i made when buying our diy system was the fact that our water was so soft there was never any need for a ro system
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with the R/O it will reduce the resin changes....am i right?
ive been told the water around here is approx 48TDS
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with the R/O it will reduce the resin changes....am i right?
ive been told the water around here is approx 48TDS
you would need to confirm your tds for yourself and if it is only 48 you definitly dont need a ro ,my tds is 50 and with double di one bag of resin lasts about 18 weeks at about 2400litres per week
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with R/O ive been estimated a resin change every year to year and a half. How much does it cost for a R/O system and compare that to a system with no R/O
PS: im asking not stating...
in other words how much does the R/O add to the price of the system?
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Can I ask a couple of question about insurance for self/profesional WFP installation?
I am insured with A Plan. When I took out the policy about 3 years ago it included all the WFP equipment in the van...One of the stipulations was that the tank and equipment must have been professionally installed by certain manufacturers/suppliers. At that time, and I've never needed to ask the question again, they quoted Ionics, facelift and I think Brodex. Mine was installed by Facelift so not a problem.
Now, we have another van that we use for the office cleaning side of our business. The insurance company that we use for this van sent us a letter stating that our insurance policy would be null and void if we were carrying water in it. When I rang them to confirm that we didn't they said that there were a number of window cleaners that were carrying water and as a result were not covered.
Can you get insurance for a self installation?
Has the list of acceptable installers changed/increased to include the numerous new WFP businesses that are starting up?
I am soon going to be getting a 2nd WFP van and was wondering what options there would be.
Thanks
Mick
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with R/O ive been estimated a resin change every year to year and a half. How much does it cost for a R/O system and compare that to a system with no R/O
PS: im asking not stating...
in other words how much does the R/O add to the price of the system?
will if you tds is 48 and you use the roughly the same amount of water as me di only will cost you about £200 a year .not sure of the ro 4040 prices but i know one of the membranes for it would cost close to this ,
di only has so many benefits i can fill my tank which is only 250 litres in five minutes straight form tap, top up at customers houses with there permission of course through out the day plus at the end of the day i can drain my tank so its safer driving with no water in it
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i suggest you order a tds meter your going to need one anyway check you tds and then take it from there you may get your system a hell of a lot cheaper if its di only
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with the R/O it will reduce the resin changes....am i right?
ive been told the water around here is approx 48TDS
I dont know if this information is useful?
Our water is about 90 TDS, I have a 40" RO and DI system. We use about 2000 Litres a week and had the system for 4 years. Thats about 400,000 litres of water. I change the pre and carbon filters 6 monthly, but have never changed the DI resin or RO membrane. After every fill I pump pure water through to flush the RO until the reading at the drain is about 2 - 4 TDS. The water in the tanks has never been anything above 0 TDS.
Hope this helps
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on the insurance front
my tank is restrained with 5 ton ratchet straps attatched to a steel chassis
the whole thing can be removed by two people in about 10 mins
as it is not a permanent fixture it is classed as cargo
my insurance broker checked this out and said it was fine
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does this mean that you cannot fit it into your van yourself? :o
well without voiding your insurance anyways? ive never heard of this tbh. Defo something i will have to look into
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The hardest part of diy-ing a system is the mounting of the tank to the vans chassis. Setting up an ro or connecting a di or anything else is laughably simple i can't believe someone like Ian is incapable of doing it. if you can make a Harris pole then surely you can screw a handfull of hoselock connectors together? ::)
I think my eight year old daughter could work it out to be honest.
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on the insurance front
my tank is restrained with 5 ton ratchet straps attatched to a steel chassis
the whole thing can be removed by two people in about 10 mins
as it is not a permanent fixture it is classed as cargo
my insurance broker checked this out and said it was fine
Well after the discussions I had with both my insurance companies they would not accept this.
A removable tank would be a benefit for my next van...who is your insurer? It could be worth a call.
Thanks
Mick
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What's Charlotte saying? Can anyone lip read?
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:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
OMG she has a mouth and its saying something!!! Well spotted mate!!!
i was oblivious that there was a person attatched to those jublieez
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i went wfp 3 months ago. i opted for a diy system. wish i hadn't now. dont get me wrong its great but if you work out the time spent putting it all together making mistakes un thought of extra exspences and loss time i'd of been much better off going up north and getting one of the few factory fitted systems done. serously doode i lost money from having my van off the road due to tank fiting in etc etc.
That's why i went for a Tucker system. ;D
Drop the van off & picked it up 2 days later & started working her the next day. Only had 1 problem & that was with the varistream that they came out & sorted. I went for a 2 man system for back up.
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What's Charlotte saying? Can anyone lip read?
Right, shes coming at yer now does that help? :P ;D
........hello boys.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v112/mickmaxtaz/image12345a.gif)
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I LIKE HER BOY!
must have been talking about my mother ::)
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Can you enlarge her for those of us that need reading glasses ;D
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i went wfp 3 months ago. i opted for a diy system. wish i hadn't now. dont get me wrong its great but if you work out the time spent putting it all together making mistakes un thought of extra exspences and loss time i'd of been much better off going up north and getting one of the few factory fitted systems done. serously doode i lost money from having my van off the road due to tank fiting in etc etc.
That's why i went for a Tucker system. ;D
Drop the van off & picked it up 2 days later & started working her the next day. Only had 1 problem & that was with the varistream that they came out & sorted. I went for a 2 man system for back up.
i tell you what, if you cannot fit a system in a van in 2 days ( a weekend ) then its not for you, but lets say, 2 days in plenty to fit a system, we all know it
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Matt can u activate that account for me mate?
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it took me friday, sat, sunday, in the summer so drying wasnt too much of a prob to protectocote the van bed. it took me ages to wait for all the parts to come so i put the tank in 1st coz a 400ltr tank takes alot of room up in your garden. then waited for the rest to come. once the tank was in i wanted to ply around it to protect it so theres another 2days. parts came one by one. i had hell of trouble finding an IBC container close enough to collect. there was problem after problem. i still have slip ups now but thats normaly because i keep leaving the sub pump on while i'm eating breckfast and fill the van with pure h2o.lol
i'm not saying all diy systems go this way but mine did and i would most defantly go pro nxt time.
also i've got about 50 recepts to put through my books at the end of the year where as if i'd of got a pro system i'd one and now worry about the tax man rejecting any due to me buying half the stuff from b&q
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Colin,
Once you've made up your mind what system you will buy I'm just around the corner if you have any teething problems. Thats the biggest dilema people have if something goes wrong and there is no one for miles to sort it out.
Andrew does a very good system for the price.
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it took me friday, sat, sunday, in the summer so drying wasnt too much of a prob to protectocote the van bed. it took me ages to wait for all the parts to come so i put the tank in 1st coz a 400ltr tank takes alot of room up in your garden. then waited for the rest to come. once the tank was in i wanted to ply around it to protect it so theres another 2days. parts came one by one. i had hell of trouble finding an IBC container close enough to collect. there was problem after problem. i still have slip ups now but thats normaly because i keep leaving the sub pump on while i'm eating breckfast and fill the van with pure h2o.lol
i'm not saying all diy systems go this way but mine did and i would most defantly go pro nxt time.
also i've got about 50 recepts to put through my books at the end of the year where as if i'd of got a pro system i'd one and now worry about the tax man rejecting any due to me buying half the stuff from b&q
planning is the key here, waiting ages for the bits to come ? ? ? ? planning
3 days to coat the floor with protectocote, that can be started before the system bits are ordered, 1 friday nigth empty van and give it a coat, another coat on sat etc etc , all done BEFORE the tank arrives
as i said, planning ahead will save you time
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Matt can u activate that account for me mate?
indeed, i have
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a friend of mine carl foster helped me loads with mine as did Andy mac. any one who offers you help take it. makes so much sence when you can see it working.
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on the insurance front
my tank is restrained with 5 ton ratchet straps attatched to a steel chassis
the whole thing can be removed by two people in about 10 mins
as it is not a permanent fixture it is classed as cargo
my insurance broker checked this out and said it was fine
Well after the discussions I had with both my insurance companies they would not accept this.
A removable tank would be a benefit for my next van...who is your insurer? It could be worth a call.
Thanks
Mick
off the top of my head i am not sure ::)
i have a broker and i do nearly all my insurance thru him
i think it might be provident
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Colin,
Once you've made up your mind what system you will buy I'm just around the corner if you have any teething problems. Thats the biggest dilema people have if something goes wrong and there is no one for miles to sort it out.
Andrew does a very good system for the price.
:o he knows my name.......how come? ???
and how u know im around the corner?
LOL its a bit disconscerting when you find out that someone on here knows you for some reason.
e-mail me your mob number and il text you mine so that i can save yours, i have a contract that im working on atm that is near you and could be wise to have a friend in the vacinity should any unforseen circumstances take hold
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You've spoke to me before. ;)
slwcn
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You've spoke to me before. ;)
slwcn
im still confused tbh
you will need to be a little more informative than that :-\
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What's Charlotte saying? Can anyone lip read?
Right, shes coming at yer now does that help? :P ;D
........hello boys.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v112/mickmaxtaz/image12345a.gif)
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Some may find this controversial but I am going to state it anyway.
If you go on my website you won't find "delivered DIY systems" on there.
I have very good reasons for this. Past experience has shown me that they are a nightmare in most cases both for the supplier and the customer. What Mr D has said just about sums it all up really. Unless you are prepared to spend a lot of time on research. Installation. Sourcing the correct parts etc DIY is probably not for you.
IF you are prepared to put a lot of time doing the research and getting to know exactly what you need, how it all works and whwre to get all the parts both large and small then DIY could be for you. Matt's site does have lots of good advice to help.
Gardiners stopped supplying DIY kits a long time ago for the same reasons. I am sure that Alex will back me up on this.
Perhaps DIY was a lot more relevant when van systems were 5 or 6 k minimum but now that companies like mine can supply a fully fitted 40 inch RO system with all the bells and whistles for the same sort of budget that RS has stated for a lot it makes much more sense to go that route.
I am merely stating my own experience here. Anyone is welcome to disagree. Some have done DIY systems very well and are happy with them.
If DIY kits made sense both for me and the customer I would supply them but they honestly just don't in the case of a complete van system with 40 inch RO etc.
Andrew
Only just spotted this Andrew. You're absolutely right - many wanting a DIY kit (to save money) did not have the technical knowledge to make them up and needed much more (sometimes up to 6 hours of phone support with each kit) than the usual after sales care and support, which defeated the purpose of a DIY kit! The parts that caused the most problems to the novice DIYer were the RO units and the delivery pumps.
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Some may find this controversial but I am going to state it anyway.
If you go on my website you won't find "delivered DIY systems" on there.
I have very good reasons for this. Past experience has shown me that they are a nightmare in most cases both for the supplier and the customer. What Mr D has said just about sums it all up really. Unless you are prepared to spend a lot of time on research. Installation. Sourcing the correct parts etc DIY is probably not for you.
IF you are prepared to put a lot of time doing the research and getting to know exactly what you need, how it all works and whwre to get all the parts both large and small then DIY could be for you. Matt's site does have lots of good advice to help.
Gardiners stopped supplying DIY kits a long time ago for the same reasons. I am sure that Alex will back me up on this.
Perhaps DIY was a lot more relevant when van systems were 5 or 6 k minimum but now that companies like mine can supply a fully fitted 40 inch RO system with all the bells and whistles for the same sort of budget that RS has stated for a lot it makes much more sense to go that route.
I am merely stating my own experience here. Anyone is welcome to disagree. Some have done DIY systems very well and are happy with them.
If DIY kits made sense both for me and the customer I would supply them but they honestly just don't in the case of a complete van system with 40 inch RO etc.
Andrew
Only just spotted this Andrew. You're absolutely right - many wanting a DIY kit (to save money) did not have the technical knowledge to make them up and needed much more (sometimes up to 6 hours of phone support with each kit) than the usual after sales care and support, which defeated the purpose of a DIY kit! The parts that caused the most problems to the novice DIYer were the RO units and the delivery pumps.
surely this will effect the "off the shelf " system buyer aswell
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Not to the same degree Matt (not that we currently sell off the shelf systems either!). Generally they are completely assembled and tested before they are fitted to the clients van. Most faults will have been spotted and everything should be set-up correctly.
For the able DIY'er setting up your own system is still the most sensible way to go as it allows complete tailoring to your needs and saves a bit of money. What it doesn't provide is any crash-test standards (we currently do not sell one of these either!) for the restraint system. Some of the DIY systems I have seen over the years though look just as crash-worthy as those with a certain type of certificated clamp. There are of course other DIY systems that are death traps.
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I'm sure there is money to be made by installing caged tanks in vans. If i was to build another i would consider paying a little extra and driving a few miles to a competant fitting company for peace of mind. The rest though is sooo simple.
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Not questioning the fact that you could get injured or killed by your tank, it could happen!
But vans are designed to carry a heavier cargo weight all day everyday.
Wfp systems manufactures for some reason have decided to build more upright tank systems that would topple over if you just drove around a corner so have to be bolted.. Rather than make a flat tank system with bigger footprint and lower centre of gravity fully baffled throughout the tank not just in part, having the tank so it cannot slide and is strapped should be enough?
Traffic accident is the death trap! But your wfp system should be secured.
Completely agree. This is why most off-the-shelf systems are inherently un-safe.
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Not to the same degree Matt (not that we currently sell off the shelf systems either!). Generally they are completely assembled and tested before they are fitted to the clients van. Most faults will have been spotted and everything should be set-up correctly.
For the able DIY'er setting up your own system is still the most sensible way to go as it allows complete tailoring to your needs and saves a bit of money. What it doesn't provide is any crash-test standards (we currently do not sell one of these either!) for the restraint system. Some of the DIY systems I have seen over the years though look just as crash-worthy as those with a certain type of certificated clamp. There are of course other DIY systems that are death traps.
its worring that people cannot put together a RO system ( afterall you have instructions with them ) and the transfer pump, well thats just fit some cable and some hose, whats difficult with that
i dont know, im not sure people even try these days
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nobody ever said window cleaners were bright ;D ;D
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Matt.
I got driven almost crazy by customers ringing up saying things along the lines of "I can't undertand how to set the RO thing up"
They were supplied FULLY ASSEMBLED.. no prefilters or membranes to put in.. all pipes connected.. colour coded and easy and I do mean easy instructions to follow. Even went to the lengths of removing the 1/4 inch piped inlet into the prefilters and replacing it with a !/2 inch barbed fitting with jubilee clip so all they had to do was push hose on and tighten up jubilee clip.
Send out a kit with a full 40 inch RO system with in tank circuit breaking float valve to fit and a solenoid valve along with the wiring... NO THANKS!! Im almost insane as it is :o
And that is just part of the story I promise you.
Andrew
Oh here is a classic for you.. just remembered it. 200 RO sent out fully assembled with instruction etc. Get call from customer.. "Was I meant to take the wrapping of the blue filters in the top plastic things"? Eh.. what do you mean? they were already installed... "Oh.. I opened it up to see what was there .. took them out and took the wrapping off".. I am at a loss then. OK send it back and we will have a look for you... Guess where this is going? YUP.. the membrane blue outer coating were pulled off completely... I give up!!!
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Matt.
I got driven almost crazy by customers ringing up saying things along the lines of "I can't undertand how to set the RO thing up"
They were supplied FULLY ASSEMBLED.. no prefilters or membranes to put in.. all pipes connected.. colour coded and easy and I do mean easy instructions to follow. Even went to the lengths of removing the 1/4 inch piped inlet into the prefilters and replacing it with a !/2 inch barbed fitting with jubilee clip so all they had to do was push hose on and tighten up jubilee clip.
but you have been working with these for years andrew. some like my self have never seen 1 b4 buying. i didnt even know what a 1/2 inch barb fitting was which end the water goes in and where it comes out.
if i sent you a law 94mm anti tank missile and one sheet of a4 paper with very basic instructions on it you would phone me for help.
dont get me wrong you were a great help with mine but faulty parts dont help also.
and i agree factory fitted system would be much better. at least then you and walk and talk buyers through what they have bought.
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:-[ I do know what you mean Mr D... honestly.
You don't mind a quick call from those just checking that they are doing things as per instructions.. mostly it's just for a bit of reassurance. That's part of a suppliers job.
As Alex pointed out earlier with "Off the shelf" systems they have been (Or should be) fully tested. By doing that any faulty parts are identified and rectified but if you are sending out a collection of all sorts of components to put together a system this can't be done.
Also a lot of experience has shown me that the briefer and more to the point instructions are the better they wor for the customer... in our field anyway.
Andrew
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Matt.
I got driven almost crazy by customers ringing up saying things along the lines of "I can't undertand how to set the RO thing up"
They were supplied FULLY ASSEMBLED.. no prefilters or membranes to put in.. all pipes connected.. colour coded and easy and I do mean easy instructions to follow. Even went to the lengths of removing the 1/4 inch piped inlet into the prefilters and replacing it with a !/2 inch barbed fitting with jubilee clip so all they had to do was push hose on and tighten up jubilee clip.
Send out a kit with a full 40 inch RO system with in tank circuit breaking float valve to fit and a solenoid valve along with the wiring... NO THANKS!! Im almost insane as it is :o
And that is just part of the story I promise you.
Andrew
Oh here is a classic for you.. just remembered it. 200 RO sent out fully assembled with instruction etc. Get call from customer.. "Was I meant to take the wrapping of the blue filters in the top plastic things"? Eh.. what do you mean? they were already installed... "Oh.. I opened it up to see what was there .. took them out and took the wrapping off".. I am at a loss then. OK send it back and we will have a look for you... Guess where this is going? YUP.. the membrane blue outer coating were pulled off completely... I give up!!!
i do wonder sometimes, i know im a practical bloke who doesnt struggle with practical issues, but then again its not hard for some1 to follow instructions
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Matt, arn't you the one with all the IKEA furnature thats built upside down? ;D
j/k mate.
well you would think that it should be simple enough to be honest, especially if there is detailed instructions and i would guess that the not so practacal people wouldn't even consider trying a DIY system but then again theres always someone who will jump in at the deep end and then shout for help.
As it stands i am buying a new pre-built system from one of the supplyers that are on here.
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Matt, arn't you the one with all the IKEA furnature thats built upside down? ;D
i followed the instructions, honestly i did :'( :'( :'(
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Not questioning the fact that you could get injured or killed by your tank, it could happen!
But vans are designed to carry a heavier cargo weight all day everyday.
Wfp systems manufactures for some reason have decided to build more upright tank systems that would topple over if you just drove around a corner so have to be bolted.. Rather than make a flat tank system with bigger footprint and lower centre of gravity fully baffled throughout the tank not just in part, having the tank so it cannot slide and is strapped should be enough?
Traffic accident is the death trap! But your wfp system should be secured.
Completely agree. This is why most off-the-shelf systems are inherently un-safe.
Seem to me there is a very good opportunity for wfp systems manufacture, if they move quickly they could get a good head start on the competition.
Can’t be too difficult to lay the tank flat, and work out the rest from that starting point.
You can already buy a flat tank, fitted or DIY. Whilst they are more stable it can sometimes be akward to pump the water when it gets low and means you have to e.g. park one side of the van up on kerb.
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i went wfp 3 months ago. i opted for a diy system. wish i hadn't now. dont get me wrong its great but if you work out the time spent putting it all together making mistakes un thought of extra exspences and loss time i'd of been much better off going up north and getting one of the few factory fitted systems done. serously doode i lost money from having my van off the road due to tank fiting in etc etc.
That's why i went for a Tucker system. ;D
Drop the van off & picked it up 2 days later & started working her the next day. Only had 1 problem & that was with the varistream that they came out & sorted. I went for a 2 man system for back up.
i tell you what, if you cannot fit a system in a van in 2 days ( a weekend ) then its not for you, but lets say, 2 days in plenty to fit a system, we all know it
i do wonder sometimes, i know im a practical bloke who doesnt struggle with practical issues, but then again its not hard for some1 to follow instructions
Matt
You keep going on about how easy it is to build and install your own system.
I was Chief Engineer at 'blue chip' company's for about 20 years before I set up my own cleaning business. Yes, I could have sourced all the components readily and installed them in a van. And as a result of my background, I will stick my neck out and say I could probably have installed it better than most. I have made quite a few mods to my system and continue to do so to improve quality, productivity and H&S. But to be quite honest, I wanted to get a good quality proven system fitted in my van as quickly as possible, whilst I was concentrating on other parts of my business. I also wanted a system that I could get insurance cover for. Two insurers, and I've had three now, have stated that the wfp system needs to be professionally installed and had a list of companies that were acceptable to them. The other, the first one, had insured us as if the wfp system was cargo, then a few months into the insurance period called us to say they had got the policy wrong and the system could not in fact be insured as such.
A few weeks ago a local trad window cleaner called at my house and asked for some advice on an RO man system he had bought and was struggling to set up. To me it was easy, simple, a five minute job. For him it was like platting water and he was close to packing in all together. Its all working now and he has a lot better understanding how it all works. This guy, no disrespect to him, doesn't do tools and never will.
The point I am making: Good on you for getting stuck in and building a system, yes it is easy for some people, to others it may as well be rocket science or thermodynamics and fluids or whatever.
May I ask for your thoughts on OEE, tack time, swot analysis etc etc within your business?
Mick uhps
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Not questioning the fact that you could get injured or killed by your tank, it could happen!
But vans are designed to carry a heavier cargo weight all day everyday.
Wfp systems manufactures for some reason have decided to build more upright tank systems that would topple over if you just drove around a corner so have to be bolted.. Rather than make a flat tank system with bigger footprint and lower centre of gravity fully baffled throughout the tank not just in part, having the tank so it cannot slide and is strapped should be enough?
Traffic accident is the death trap! But your wfp system should be secured.
Completely agree. This is why most off-the-shelf systems are inherently un-safe.
Totally agree.
You could buy yourself a £40,000 set-up and it would still only be impact tested "safe" up to 30mph - anything more, and its untested and therefore unsafe (unproven).
Without going over old ground - are you going to limit your vehicle to 30mph???
You'll build yourself a HOT system for less than £1,500...I know because I've done it :)
With a bit of planning and input from a friendly engineer, you'll build a HOT system which beats the 30mph set-up...and save yourself a considerable sum of money in the process ;)