Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: AuRavelling79 on November 17, 2008, 10:39:26 am
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Here's a good one; I find an envelope put thru' my letterbox, hand delivered with one of my payment slips adjusted from £11.00 to £10.00 and this note written on the back:-
"(My neighbours,) No.'s X, Y, Z pay £11, sorry but I don't think there is so much for you to do at my house and I think £10 covers what you have to do thank you and have a nice Xmas, Mrs P_______"
Now normally I would take decisive action but please hear me out.
These 3 house owners are "good friends" in their 70's who all pay for each other and are done every other month. One in particular provides tea and biccies and recommended me to the other two.
Firstly her note is wrong in that house x - not one of the 3 she is paying for - has a small conservatory and pays £16, the others do indeed pay £11 and so did she for the past two years, but because she is paying for all of them and brought the money to my house she has taken it upon herself to count the windows and decide her price is unfair.
So I have 4 houses in a cul-de-sac and they add up to £49. It is also complicated in that one of them (the £16 one) is a friend of my wife and it is a close knit community.
There is also "a ladder man" in the street who is on nodding acquaintance terms with me who is presumably able to take on anyone I dump.
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These houses are 1930's have two triple pane bays at the front and are 3 bed private owned in blocks of 4. The reason this custy has two less windows is that she is mid block whereas the others are end terrace - but access is more difficult for hers as I have to take the hose right round the back, climb over the adjoining wall and work from her neighbours - hence the same price. (one of the others has a con. which they do themselves which this old bat may think I include in the price)
Do I dump her and take the consequences? - I lose a tenner (or the most I could lose is £33 but it may be awkward for the wife's friend.)
Do I write a letter explain the access issue and overlook the lost £1 (as she delivered all three's money) this time but insist on £11 from now on.
Do I write a letter explain the access issue and insist on getting the lost £1 this time.
Do I "take it."
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Many customers do not realise issues such as access., they just look at the windows to be cleaned.
I think you need to explain to her your concerns regarding access to her property. Say you price hers relating to the access, if you didn't have to climb over a wall, then you would have no problem doing it for £10.
so personally i would go for the option
Do I write a letter explain the access issue and overlook the lost £1 (as she delivered all three's money) this time but insist on £11 from now on.
Then again as you say she delivers the money so you dont have to go and collect it. So perhaps include that as your willing to just keep it to £10 for good customer relations (if she always collects the money for you :P )
But this is your decision, i have only given my opinion.
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£1 for collecting and delivering the money, fine by me.
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I agree with both of Chris's views
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That reminds me of an old englsih law.
If you went to a resturaunt and had a meal.. and the bill came to £45.00 and you thought the meal was only worth £30.00 you can refuse to pay the £45.00 and hand over what you believe the value of that meal.
Now think of this... not saying your pricing structure is wrong, but what would the cost be if you were traditional. Would it have been £11.00 would someone else charge £11.00 for traditional.
I thought that WFP would reduce the time it takes... so would I not be right in saying you should be able to charge less than traditional as you would be quicker...with WFP
Dave
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using wfp is a lot quicker,i have kept my prices the same,cost to run is not that exspensive,some people are putting prices up for usng wfp. :o
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i would do excactly as chris said,
tell her the price should be £11.00 , then make the adjustment due to the fact that she brings money,
she will then know that £11 is fair ( due to access issues)
but will also see you are being fair (she brings money(s).
then it is you that has decided price.
in these tough times, we all need to think about alterering our policies, to some extent ,but at the same time still maintaining control.
you do not want to give the other guy, a chance to get his foot in.
daz
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Thanks for the advice chaps - actually this is the only time she has brought the money and known what the others are paying.
This is actually only average-paying work for me as it is and if the trad-man wants her at £10 he's welcome. It's only just worth my while at £11 a shot as there are four together.
It's the arbitrary reduction that rankles with me and I don't feel I can allow it as it would irritate me out of all proportion to it's financial significance.
If the others know she's done this will they all want a further reduction?
I'll think on it overnight but am leaning towards a letter explaining and holding my price.
More thoughts welcome please...
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For a £1 is it worth sending a letter?
It will cost you much more than £1 in lost time and you could have knocked on several neighbours doors and got maybe another local customer for £12.00 to cover the lost £1.00
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As she is an old lady, it may be best to talk to her. A letter may cause unnecessary stress nad she may think as you have known her for some time she would have expected some courtesy.
After all we are human and meant to show that we are concerned and caring.
Well thats what I would expect.. But if you want to seem firm. Well then the letter is the best way to go but will probably end up losing the customer.
I fully understand that some people cannot drop their prices or just wont but lets face it, over the year that £12.00 on that particular customer. If its a monthly clean.
I also understand that then people say oh but if all my customers did that it would mount up to alot so I cant... well some income is better than none.
Dave
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dont bother about the letter, next time you are round, just explain what you have said on here, and if she still doesnt like it, then its up to you.
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I would explain the access issues are what makes the prices the same. Overlook the pound this time, but insist on £11 for future cleans.
I guess you could write a letter, but hand deliver it and speak to her at the same time. Just say you brought the letter in case she wasn't in, but she may as well have it anyway (once you have explained the price).
I reckon that if she wants you to do the windows, she will accept it.
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i think the issue is is it worth it to you , can you afford the loss if you say no - the price is x amount, i run my business and decide the price, you the customer has a choice....
If you want the work, suck it up, if not, stick to your principles....... hard one though
Good luck :)
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I would say to this lady that the price is £11, and will not go up this year due to her collecting payments on your behalf and if she wants to collect and deliver payment each time you clean then she can have it for £10 (saves you time that has to be worth a pound I would say that to her aswell, if not then £11 it will be, I would no let a customer dictate my prices unless it was in my interest to let them, stay in control and tread careful. show weakness in pricing and they will exploit it more and more. I know before anyone says it's only a pound, it is more the point they think they can tell you what they are paying. "seems like she maybe one of these people that look down on window cleaners"
if you just accept it, next year will she say as money is tight I will now pay £9 and come to think of it my friends now only want to pay £10 aswell.....................where would it stop ?. someone said about another cleaner coming and getting his foot in, I would not want to keep customers that do this type of thing as to me they would fall into the messers catagory and others are welcome to have the hassle.
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I would say to this lady that the price is £11, and will not go up this year due to her collecting payments on your behalf and if she wants to collect and deliver payment each time you clean then she can have it for £10 (saves you time that has to be worth a pound I would say that to her aswell, if not then £11 it will be, I would no let a customer dictate my prices unless it was in my interest to let them, stay in control and tread careful. show weakness in pricing and they will exploit it more and more. I know before anyone says it's only a pound, it is more the point they think they can tell you what they are paying. "seems like she maybe one of these people that look down on window cleaners"
if you just accept it, next year will she say as money is tight I will now pay £9 and come to think of it my friends now only want to pay £10 aswell.....................where would it stop ?. someone said about another cleaner coming and getting his foot in, I would not want to keep customers that do this type of thing as to me they would fall into the messers catagory and others are welcome to have the hassle.
Yep, I'm inclined towards this view - it isn't the money - really - I'm too busy with and trying to reduce mediocre work as it is.
I pay £179 a month for my van - If I went to Fiat finance and said "look your new prices are £10 a month cheaper and I want a reduction" what do you think they'd say?
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i think she has been very cheeky to take it upon herself to do this! leave her out next with month,ant the next time untill she asks why you have left her out, then you can explain the access issue...custies with dirty windows will soon learn to appreciate their wc.
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What a lot of fuss over £1 :o
Haven't you got something you'd rather be doing?
You get £49 for the street, just think of it as a single job (which in effect it is as you get paid for the lot in one go) accept the reduction gracefully and carry on as usual. Next time skimp a bit on her house to make up for it ;D
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What a lot of fuss over £1 :o
Haven't you got something you'd rather be doing?
You get £49 for the street, just think of it as a single job (which in effect it is as you get paid for the lot in one go) accept the reduction gracefully and carry on as usual. Next time skimp a bit on her house to make up for it ;D
I agree with Ian, but I'd still explain why you charge her so; just so she didn't think I was 'ripping her off', that you'll turn a blind-eye to it purely because of the fact that she's such a good customer, in that she does the collecting for you.
Then I'd put everyone's prices up next year; including hers. ;D
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my first reaction would be to dump as i wouldnt let a customer dictate my prices if you want to keep her be prepared for the others to follow its one of the reasons i wont work in the same street i live , if i was to keep her on i would stop doing the frames and sils
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using wfp is a lot quicker,i have kept my prices the same,cost to run is not that exspensive,some people are putting prices up for usng wfp. :o
I've held back on price rises too because WFP is much faster for me on most jobs.
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I get the feeling that some of us WC`s are getting just as frightened as the general public who watch the news constantly at the moment,don`t pannick if you agree with this what does that say about you and what you`ve been doing in the past it says you`ve been ripping them off,it`ll take you forever to get it back up to what it was.I took a job on last week for £25 every 8 weeks,the last idiot was doing it for £12 but never came back i wonder why.
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I would say to this lady that the price is £11, and will not go up this year due to her collecting payments on your behalf and if she wants to collect and deliver payment each time you clean then she can have it for £10 (saves you time that has to be worth a pound I would say that to her aswell, if not then £11 it will be, I would no let a customer dictate my prices unless it was in my interest to let them, stay in control and tread careful. show weakness in pricing and they will exploit it more and more. I know before anyone says it's only a pound, it is more the point they think they can tell you what they are paying. "seems like she maybe one of these people that look down on window cleaners"
if you just accept it, next year will she say as money is tight I will now pay £9 and come to think of it my friends now only want to pay £10 aswell.....................where would it stop ?. someone said about another cleaner coming and getting his foot in, I would not want to keep customers that do this type of thing as to me they would fall into the messers catagory and others are welcome to have the hassle.
Same here. I would not have a custy of mine telling me the price. If they don't want to pay my price
they can find some one else.
I also don't get held to ransom cause they are friends. Who runs ur buisness, you or them.
Give her the chance to pay £11 or dump her or they will all start the same game.
Macc
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Im leaning towards.....shes taking liberties, if she thinks she should pay just £10.00 and adjusts it without saying anything then thats out of order, she should have approached you.
Id now feel obliged to say something possibly implying Id have been prepared to compromise, if this is possible, but as shes behaving unfairly you'll have to insist on the original price.
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Thanks for the advice chaps - actually this is the only time she has brought the money and known what the others are paying.
This is actually only average-paying work for me as it is and if the trad-man wants her at £10 he's welcome. It's only just worth my while at £11 a shot as there are four together.
It's the arbitrary reduction that rankles with me and I don't feel I can allow it as it would irritate me out of all proportion to it's financial significance.
If the others know she's done this will they all want a further reduction?
I'll think on it overnight but am leaning towards a letter explaining and holding my price.
More thoughts welcome please...
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Decision made, letter posted. Thanks all - very helpful.
I've sent a letter explaining her error (one of the houses is higher priced and in another the custy cleans his own conservatory) and access issues.
I've not mentioned the £1 this time but have reasserted that I will see her in Jan (2-monthly see?) at the original price unless she otherwise advises.
Finished with I hope this explanation is satisfactory and mentioned my reliability, insurance, H&S and frame and sill cleaning is all included.
We shall see what happens.
I am not prepared to be dictated to on price so that's it!
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Well done. Good for you. ;)
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do it for a tenner :)
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When word gets round that your reducing your prices your be in trouble,can you imagine if that happened to every customer and how much worse off you`d be over the course of a year.
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Decision made, letter posted. Thanks all - very helpful.
I've sent a letter explaining her error (one of the houses is higher priced and in another the custy cleans his own conservatory) and access issues.
I've not mentioned the £1 this time but have reasserted that I will see her in Jan (2-monthly see?) at the original price unless she otherwise advises.
Finished with I hope this explanation is satisfactory and mentioned my reliability, insurance, H&S and frame and sill cleaning is all included.
We shall see what happens.
I am not prepared to be dictated to on price so that's it!
Well done mate stick to your guns and never let a custy dictate pricing, personally i would use her as an example and get rid as a warning to others. The old ones are the worst IMO, ive had old foggies ask me to clean there windows on a regular basis and the next time i went to clean they said once is enough for this year, >:( very annoying.
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Thats one of the reasons i asked for advice on another topic, customer trying to reduce...
The thing is , we are looking at posts on this site, that we have not seen before.
"lost another today"
"undercutting"
"non payment of commercial work"
The recession is starting here, now... with us.
But lets stay positive, keep building new work...
I dont know wether keeping that customer on , or agreeing to her price...
maybe.... in these times, it may be better to keep them for now....
see how it goes regarding new work coming in... and re-asses.
or at a push keep for now... dump when the economy is stronger.
Hard to call.
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It can only be up to the individual if it`s worth keeping it on or not,i don`t know every WC`s situation but if you have enough work you should never be told how much your getting for doing a job your self employed you tell them and if they don`t like it they can lump it.
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Decision made, letter posted. Thanks all - very helpful.
I've sent a letter explaining her error (one of the houses is higher priced and in another the custy cleans his own conservatory) and access issues.
I've not mentioned the £1 this time but have reasserted that I will see her in Jan (2-monthly see?) at the original price unless she otherwise advises.
Finished with I hope this explanation is satisfactory and mentioned my reliability, insurance, H&S and frame and sill cleaning is all included.
We shall see what happens.
I am not prepared to be dictated to on price so that's it!
Maybe you should sign her up to a couple of hundred mailing lists while you're at it Malc :) .
Seriously though, I think you've made the right choice. I can see why you were needing to give it some thought and know how tricky it can be. I had to let go of a couple of customers last month because, between them, they were trying to control how I ran a little bit of my business (not a pricing issue though). I will try to give a customer what they want within reason but I try to picture what my life would be like if every customer tried to get their own way on certain issues. The answer is that if I had given every customer everything that they wanted down the years, I wouldn't be cleaning windows any more.
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The answer is that if I had given every customer everything that they wanted down the years, I wouldn't be cleaning windows any more.
ohoooo.. Now now shiner.... is there something you aint telling us here.:)
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write to her, letting her off the £1, but make it clear that it is for her delivery service and that she is getting VFM with the window cleaning. If it seems to easy for her to get a discount, wait till she tells X Y &Z. It will snowball and they will all want what she got.
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All I can say is roll on when recession is over, 'cause I'll be dumping quite a few annoying customers, but for now I'll grit my teeth and put up with them until they start messing me about. Only give them two chances and on the third...they're dumped, recession or no recession.
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sh** through the letter box that seems to work for most of em
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The answer is that if I had given every customer everything that they wanted down the years, I wouldn't be cleaning windows any more.
ohoooo.. Now now shiner.... is there something you aint telling us here.:)
Haha. Trust you to pick up on that one Gazza :)
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1stly how come you have 70year old friends?????? do you play bridge or bowls?????
i wouldnt worry to much its only a £. after all there are funny folk every where what i would do is mention to x,y and z what she did and why you charge her the same as them. you can bet your bottom $ they will have a word.
bloody scotts there all the same! lol just kidding just kidding.
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1stly how come you have 70year old friends?????? do you play bridge or bowls?????
i wouldnt worry to much its only a £. after all there are funny folk every where what i would do is mention to x,y and z what she did and why you charge her the same as them. you can bet your bottom $ they will have a word.
bloody scotts there all the same! lol just kidding just kidding.
Re-read the first post - my wife's friend lives in the road and is a customer in addition to the three older custy's I'm talking about here. Anyway I'm not age-ist! ;D
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What a lot of fuss over £1 :o
Haven't you got something you'd rather be doing?
You get £49 for the street, just think of it as a single job (which in effect it is as you get paid for the lot in one go) accept the reduction gracefully and carry on as usual. Next time skimp a bit on her house to make up for it ;D
i agree,just miss the bathroom when it has no bird muck or loos dirty
I use that as a sales pitch if I am against trad cleaners lol and it works 90% of the time (I just sow a seed in there mind), I did this myself years back so I know full well where you are coming from on that one it saves a load of time, but now we clean everything.
Malc Gold, good on you I would have done near on the same.
Ian