Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Clive McDonald on November 07, 2008, 08:40:13 pm
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The new version of george allows you to seperate cash from other methods of payment. This might not sound like anything very exciting, but to me it's brilliant.
Having had two tax investigations I can assure you the tax man is very, very interested in cash. Interested almost to the point of obsession. So to be able to record which payment are cash, which are cheque, and which are credit transfer is brilliant.
Apparently there is yet more to come,(i'd be interested to know what areas this outstanding programme can be improved in), but you could now run your entire business very well off this one programme. Round scheduling, customers details, debts, reconcillitation, expenses, invoices quotes.
I use a small lap top that I sometimes take out with me, but always spend ten minutes updating every day, and then connect to a printer to get tomorrows work. I like a copy of next weeks work too so I can see whats coming and plan a bit.
The law, in so far as our books are concerned, says that they should be clear and easy to follow, and that's exactly what GEORGE delivers.
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I agree with all of that, It seems Paul is fighting back after the release of WCP I'm sure he'll keep on top of things and it will continue to improve cant see how though!
Respect to Ian as well for giving some viable competition which I'm sure will benefit the users of both programs.
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you wanna get a cheap pda on ebay £35 for a palm zire 31, runs pocket and george and has memo, to do lists, calendar calculator and can put databases on etc, its the best £35 i spent since spending £50 on george, made life really easy, looked good collecting tonight off of the pda too :)
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I did have a palm but I broke it ::) I'm hoping to get a palm phone on contract when Vodafone start listing them, that will be really handy :)
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Don't use the word collecting, i know it's none of my business what other people do but the stupidity of it really winds me up. That I didn't need to collect was one of the first things this forum taught me.Sorry if that's rude.
Left to my own devices I probably wouldn't have bought george either. It was other members singing it's praises that pushed me. Not only does it do the admin but i can earn more because i can think on my feet with it and swap jobs to suit where i am or pinch work from a few days in front(eight weekly).Every day I try to earn as much money as possible and the key to this I have found is flexibility.
The other programme wcp is getting some good comments too, but I don't think some of these people grasped george.George has been going for three years has it's own user group and has been used by thousands , many of whom have made helpfull suggestions that have been incorporated. The new programme, even if it had been written by a genius can't compete with this.
However there is a problem best summarised by; don't be first to market, be second and be best. Where wcp has got it right is it's income stream. It is four times the price of george to buy, and scores good money on the other things too. Usually what makes the most money wins.
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Take the apple I pod, they make some really dear ones, and some cheapo shuffles that slammed the door on any low enders trying to muscle in (virgin had one and lost a packet).
Where does george fit in to this, well I think it should be dearer for the sums to work.Now that a rival does exist he can double the price and it's still a bargain.(this way we get to keep a fanastic and continually updated programme for years to come).
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If you have a PDA, how does George deal with debts?
Can you leave the debts on and enter payments from customers you see?
Can you organise the debts into a collection round?
I believe Ian is working on these, but I wonder if George was debt/wc friendly?
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The updates on george are excellent i have been using george for about 4 years now and i extremely happy with it.
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Don't use the word collecting, i know it's none of my business what other people do but the stupidity of it really winds me up. That I didn't need to collect was one of the first things this forum taught me.Sorry if that's rude.
Left to my own devices I probably wouldn't have bought george either. It was other members singing it's praises that pushed me. Not only does it do the admin but i can earn more because i can think on my feet with it and swap jobs to suit where i am or pinch work from a few days in front(eight weekly).Every day I try to earn as much money as possible and the key to this I have found is flexibility.
The other programme wcp is getting some good comments too, but I don't think some of these people grasped george.George has been going for three years has it's own user group and has been used by thousands , many of whom have made helpfull suggestions that have been incorporated. The new programme, even if it had been written by a genius can't compete with this.
However there is a problem best summarised by; don't be first to market, be second and be best. Where wcp has got it right is it's income stream. It is four times the price of george to buy, and scores good money on the other things too. Usually what makes the most money wins.
To infer that somebody is stupid for keeping debts paid, and their bills paid on time, as well as maintaining customer relations is rude yes....and for your information i only collect one evening a week usually after work on the street where i am and the rest send checks but i am only just implementing that so it will take time and in the period in between my family need to eat.
Well done that all your customers send you your money and that works for you, but don't please ever think somebody is stupid for doing things differently...
Thank you....muppet
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8) I used a good old paper and pen... "I wont change. sorry!
That was three years ago
George is quite simply put... "A God Send"!
Who needs an accountant?
Only thing I have against is, technology is moving on "windows" on phones now...
Palm phones not keeping up (Even palm Treo's themselves have changes to windows!)
bit of a problem soon, maybe!
George have no plans to make a windows version! :(
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Hi
Thanks for the kind words guys.
We do plan to release a Windows Mobile version at some point - but not till we've added all the important new stuff to George itself.
Paul
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If you have a PDA, how does George deal with debts?
Can you leave the debts on and enter payments from customers you see?
Can you organise the debts into a collection round?
Hi
Yes - George has user defined Debt Lists. You can transfer them to the Palm and enter any payments you receive while you're out and about...
Paul
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Usually what makes the most money wins.
You'd be amazed how little money there is to made from this sort of software.
The big question is how long you can keep updating the software and supporting the users when there's not much income.
I've been doing it since 2001 - I enjoy it - but I wouldn't want to have to live on the income - even if it was 4 times the price...
Paul
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Usually what makes the most money wins.
You'd be amazed how little money there is to made from this sort of software.
The big question is how long you can keep updating the software and supporting the users when there's not much income.
I've been doing it since 2001 - I enjoy it - but I wouldn't want to have to live on the income - even if it was 4 times the price...
Paul
Not to be cheeky, but you have another job then?? you a window cleaner???
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Hi
No - I'm a programmer - have been for 20 years or more.
Paul
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paul
if you do a batch of really good upgrades , like emailing invoices , text via internet to custys mobile from their job record and a few of the other more popular suggestions.
i for one would be prepared to throw another £50 in the pot i think most of the guys that are treating their jobs professionally and not as ''weekend money'' would think the same
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Hi Jeff
Thanks - nice idea but I think I'll keep adding features one a a time for now.
Paul
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I have George and wcp and i was just wondering why its taken so long for these little updates to happen, is it because theres been little compertition but now wcp is around youve started to worry, I couldnt run my business like this and im always thinking of ways to improve, if these ideas had been done a long time ago maybe wcp wouldnt of taken off like it has, im not slating your product as its a good one which is why i bought it to start but then wcp came along and seems to have nearly everything you could possibly need to run a business.
Chris
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i found wcp to be perfect when i opened it, i got on with it straight away.
no offence but i did not get on with george when i opened it and i find ians help is second to none. shows you exactly what to do
i asked you a question a while ago and i was told to go and look at the faq on the site. not the best way to do it in my opinion
seems your getting some ideas off ians, but sorry i think hes ahead of the game
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Hi Jaykie
It hasn't taken long for these "little updates" to happen - I've been updating George continuously for 7 years.
The new version is a major update and it's changed the whole structure of the database. I've been planning it for a long time - I've written several new versions that were never released but I wasn't happy with them - and that takes time.
I still haven't heard of anything WCP does that George doesn't.
Paul
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Hi
Thanks for the kind words guys.
We do plan to release a Windows Mobile version at some point - but not till we've added all the important new stuff to George itself.
Paul
This is good news, Paul!
Last time I asked the answer was no!
I like the idea of getting the latest smartphone and running George!
as I have said before you have to keep up with the new technology or your lost!
I almost changed last yea to a program using windows for that very reason!
I looked at several, downloaded trials.. didn't get on with them!
Upshot, if I did I would have changed!
It's just as well that your system really works well!
Steve
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The new Palm Centro along with the trio 755 & trio 680 all run palm OS you need to buy the phone though and their not that cheap, I think vodafone will have the Centro on contract soon though.
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The new Palm Centro along with the trio 755 & trio 680 all run palm OS you need to buy the phone though and their not that cheap, I think vodafone will have the Centro on contract soon though.
I use the Treo 680 I bought it New not tied to any network (unlocked)
I use £ network (pay as you go card) They just text me last week saying "Using unauthorized phone" broken some agreement somewhere...
Anyway I had three days to go back to using a Proper 3 phone or they were going to cut me off (credit would be forfeited) :o :o :o
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Hi Jaykie
I still haven't heard of anything WCP does that George doesn't.
Paul
Paul
I'm running Geo & Wcp atm and the 1 thing for me that Wcp does that Geo doesnt is that you can enter a customer's details once and then supply them with many products on different schedules and maintain their account all in the same window with a running total and not have to enter their details again & again for every other product that they require
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George has evolved, and that takes time. Thousands of people have all chipped in little ideas. Do you think that Microsoft's excell was all written in a day?, or do you think it has millions of users over many years all striving for improvements and microsoft have had many project teams work on it?
Think about the scale involved and you'll soon realise that we are extremely lucky to have a guy who knows what he's at devote so much time to this.
My concern is what Jeff Temperley and Paul disscused, a viable income stream to keep george fit and healthy for many years to come. I don't currently pay for the memory option, but i am not averse to paying a yearly fee or fitting in with any sensible income scheme that continues the brilliant service that I already recieve from george. Many of the really smart people on here, and there are quite a few, can see the benefits of this.
What about some kind of George plus scheme where you pay more and you get more?
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J love George it does eerything I need and the new updates were great! I would definately pay an anual fee to update.
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Paul,
Is it possible to get notified via email when George gets updated.
We've been using it now for 4 years and I wouldn't be without it. Never tried WCP, can it be downloaded onto a pda?
Just going through the routine of updating to the new version, printed off my debt list as directed and it's currently standing at £4,908!!! Scary, and we chase customers on a monthly basis. Luckily, most of these are within the last 4 weeks and a lot are commercial, however have got a few who are still 2-3 months behind.
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funny a year ago i suggested on here that we should pay a subscription fee to george for the updates. http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=43369.0 I got slated but now people will realise that paying a sub is cheaper and easier than having to buy a whole new program every few years.
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Never tried WCP, can it be downloaded onto a pda?
Yes mate, takes no time syncing up. Ian will always help out with any problems.
Down load it mate & have a look, IMO it's the best programe out there.
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funny a year ago i suggested on here that we should pay a subscription fee to george for the updates. http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=43369.0 I got slated but now people will realise that paying a sub is cheaper and easier than having to buy a whole new program every few years.
I think George is perfect for me, I bought it for £50 and it said "free upgrades" and that's just how I like it, if it was never updated again it would still work just fine.
Any of you lot with more money than sense want to send Paul a cheque for a few £££££ then go ahead, but keep the rest of us out of it.
While you are on, why not send Alex a few quid too as he continually updates his poles, brushes etc ::)
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Is it possible to get notified via email when George gets updated.
Hi
New releases are usually announced in our User Group
Paul
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funny a year ago i suggested on here that we should pay a subscription fee to george for the updates. http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=43369.0 I got slated but now people will realise that paying a sub is cheaper and easier than having to buy a whole new program every few years.
I think George is perfect for me, I bought it for £50 and it said "free upgrades" and that's just how I like it, if it was never updated again it would still work just fine.
Any of you lot with more money than sense want to send Paul a cheque for a few £££££ then go ahead, but keep the rest of us out of it.
While you are on, why not send Alex a few quid too as he continually updates his poles, brushes etc ::)
The updates for george wont continue for ever if he has no incentive, so what happens in the future when your needs have changed and you have no way for the program to change with you. A good example of needs changing is shown in the latest update where we now have the ability to record the method of payment eg cash, bank transfer etc.
You don't get your updated brushes or poles for free do you, you have to pay if you want the newer versions, you can be pretty sure these improvements would soon stop if there was no money to be made from them.
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funny a year ago i suggested on here that we should pay a subscription fee to george for the updates. http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=43369.0 I got slated but now people will realise that paying a sub is cheaper and easier than having to buy a whole new program every few years.
I think George is perfect for me, I bought it for £50 and it said "free upgrades" and that's just how I like it, if it was never updated again it would still work just fine.
Any of you lot with more money than sense want to send Paul a cheque for a few £££££ then go ahead, but keep the rest of us out of it.
While you are on, why not send Alex a few quid too as he continually updates his poles, brushes etc ::)
The updates for george wont continue for ever if he has no incentive, so what happens in the future when your needs have changed and you have no way for the program to change with you. A good example of needs changing is shown in the latest update where we now have the ability to record the method of payment eg cash, bank transfer etc.
You don't get your updated brushes or poles for free do you, you have to pay if you want the newer versions, you can be pretty sure these improvements would soon stop if there was no money to be made from them.
I take your point, if george never ever changes it will still be okay, and why should people like me stir it up for you to pay more. Well partly because of what philip says, but the programme has so much potential it really could run all of our business for us.You signed up for free upgrades for george, but what if there was a george plus that did a little bit more.....Or even a lot more.
People sometimes mention service ceo, and that's £1,500....
When we're told there's not a lot of money in it I believe him. How many people must have copies they didn't pay for?
Let's face it as a group we are a tight bunch and do not like spending anything but this could easily backfire on us.
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George is more than fab.
With the new features i think it is unbeatable
especially when you see the unbelievable price tag of £50
George keep it up, i think you have just scored a winner with the new payment options
Dave
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i agree with the above, george does everything i need it to do and for £50 is real value for money.
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it is good. it doesn't do everything i need but compared to wcp for the money you can't argue ;) if wcp had the features i wanted i would buy it. or george for that matter
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it is good. it doesn't do everything i need but compared to wcp for the money you can't argue ;) if wcp had the features i wanted i would buy it. or george for that matter
Hi Steve,
The feature of hiding details on the worksheet is on my list of things to do and will be available in the near future. As with any software it takes time to design, develop, test and release as well as trying to include everybody elses requests.
Ian
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As an established George user , switching over to windowcleaningpro was far to time consuming for me , i dedicated 2 weeks to trying it out but the switchover was to painful.
Now George has the features i need ie payments there is no urgency to try to find a better program as George now fulfills all my needs.
I think both programs are good, I dont want to sound biased as my opinions could sway people, but for me George just swings it.
Saying that if George didnt add the payment feature, then pro would of swung it.
My advice would be to evaluate them both and weigh up everything including features, ease of use and cost
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For me its all about cost, i think george is the right price, i wouldnt pay anymore than that, it isnt rocket science, no offense to the programmers, they have to make their money and are enititled to charge what they want, but i think george is more realistic imho
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it is good. it doesn't do everything i need but compared to wcp for the money you can't argue ;) if wcp had the features i wanted i would buy it. or george for that matter
Hi Steve,
The feature of hiding details on the worksheet is on my list of things to do and will be available in the near future. As with any software it takes time to design, develop, test and release as well as trying to include everybody elses requests.
Ian
there are a few other details to ian but once thats on there i'll have a more serious look at WCP
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it is good. it doesn't do everything i need but compared to wcp for the money you can't argue ;) if wcp had the features i wanted i would buy it. or george for that matter
Hi Steve,
The feature of hiding details on the worksheet is on my list of things to do and will be available in the near future. As with any software it takes time to design, develop, test and release as well as trying to include everybody elses requests.
Ian
there are a few other details to ian but once thats on there i'll have a more serious look at WCP
Sure Steve,
Send me an email with other details so that I can make sure they are included.
Thanks
Ian
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ok no probs ;)
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The price of George for what you get is very cheap, I would also pay a yearly fee for upgrades, just like you do for Norton, etc.
I would hate for George to just stop being upgraded, especially when you know Windows can make programs obsolete, without development when new operating systems get released.
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I have one query about the new version. Hope you read this Paul. I have 2 small shops in my job list. I price them at £0 weekly. I like them in my list so I see them in the day's jobs. I have another listing for them every 4 weeks, which is when I get paid. Now I can't mark the £0 jobs as "paid".
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There was mention of this upgrade being a change in structure necessary for some 'big things to come'.
I hope that one of the big things to come is a report that gives you the weeky cash coming in figure. I know that the word cash has two meanings, and can simply mean payments. What I am asking for is a stand alone weekly amount of cash that I actually recieve. That is what the tax man likes to see, he couldn't give a hoot about what goes in the bank because that is accounted for, so cheques and credit transfer don't really matter.
What he likes to see is a cash in hand figure that is arrived at by adding last weeks cash in hand and deducting any drawings and any expenses that were paid for in cash.
I don't expect george to do these sums for me, taking off expenses starts to get a bit complex. If george could just kick up a weekly cash (as in actual cash) recieved figure that would be great.
Let me give you an example. Say I pay my mortgage and a lot of my bills out of my seperate personal account using money transfered over from my business account and clearly labeled as drawings, that's fine, but then the tax man says what money do use to live on you never draw any money out of the bank?
I say that I take £200 in cash as drawings every week.
He says okay, but show me where this cash comes from?
Thats why we need the cash figure.
Thanks (no pressure) ;D
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Hi
The daily Payments Received list shows you the actual Cash - but I think you need an accounting system to give you the level of detail you are asking for.
The Finance Report shows your cashflow - I think that's what the taxman is really interested in.
Paul
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don't confuse cashflow with cash.
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Hi
It's cashflow the taxman is interested in.
I do know the difference - I was an accountant for a long time...
Paul
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Paul, did you read my query?
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I also think George is remarkable value for money. I've been using it for about 3 (or is it 4?) years now without a single problem and it's dead simple to use.
Like Dave St Seagull with his clapped out old Porshe, I would also pay yearly for any upgrades.
Cheers
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Hi
I suppose we could analyse the income and expenses on the Finance Report by payment method - but I don't really see the point.
The taxman knows what percentage of your income is needed to maintain your lifestyle. He's not really interested in how it's paid.
Paul
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Hi Ross
How you doing , long time no hear.
Discount
For now, i think you will have to add up the daily cash summaries for your cash figure, it would be nice to have weekly, but i suppose daily is even better ?
maybe an export facility to a stand alone utility is the way forward, after all if you were paper accounting you would have a separate cash book.
No matter which way, it is a massive or should i say a MASSIVE improvement to what we had.
PAul/ George
Even if it wasnt needed it would be nice to have in a report of some kind at the end of the year
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Paul, did you read my query?
Hi Feen
I don't really understand the question - please contact me direct at our "users@" address.
Paul
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I'm trying not to get on my high horse about this, it's aggravating when you know you are right.
Thanks Dave, yes I agree, maybe to keep good records I need to print both the work done and the payment sheet off every day and then add the cash up for a weekly figure. It's just such a lot of printing off and bother though when a computer and a programme on it could be designed very easily to do this.
I recognise that I will have to deduct my own expenses and cash drawings to arrive at the cash in hand continuity figure that the tax man wants to see, it's just that I was hoping to drop the hint that the provision of this figure would be the biggest single, and a massive selling point- for either programme- for many users.
Just because many don't know what I'm blathering on about or see the relevance don't think that this isn't important.
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Hi
Ok - I just uploaded a modified version of V3.69X4.
The Finance Report now shows an analysis of payments received by payment method.
Is that what you want?
Paul
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Thanks Paul
When I first looked I could not see it :o
However it is there bottom left, for anyone else whos blind like me.
Roy
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Hi Discount,
I would be interested to know if its the amount of cash received (daily, weekly or monthly) that you wanted. I have uploaded a sample of a report from wcp that breaks down the amount of money you received by payment method.
Can you let me know if this would meet your requirements.
Thanks
Ian
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I agree with Discount , It is good practice to show cash in hand at any given time.
Wether it is essential for the tax man i couldnt tell you, but he would see it as good practice too
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Cash in hand accounting is acceptable and to me is essential.
2 sets of books , never, if you look at the tax website about cash in hand that is what they advise
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been following thread with interest, as i downloaded trial version of george about a year ago and was very impressed with the programme.i bought a palm and set it up on trial,it looked the buisness untill i took it outside on a brightish day ,only to find that i couldn't read the screen because of the glare/reflection.this was really disapointing because it looked to be a cracking programme.anyone else experience the same problem?or offer a soloution.
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been following thread with interest, as i downloaded trial version of george about a year ago and was very impressed with the programme.i bought a palm and set it up on trial,it looked the buisness untill i took it outside on a brightish day ,only to find that i couldn't read the screen because of the glare/reflection.this was really disapointing because it looked to be a cracking programme.anyone else experience the same problem?or offer a soloution.
You can get anti glare protection covers for most models of Palm's for example www.amazon.com/Palm-3232WW-Anti-Glare-Screen-Protectors/dp/B000BO0PFK - youll have to search for your model and see if they do one for that or similar screen size
Ian
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been following thread with interest, as i downloaded trial version of george about a year ago and was very impressed with the programme.i bought a palm and set it up on trial,it looked the buisness untill i took it outside on a brightish day ,only to find that i couldn't read the screen because of the glare/reflection.this was really disapointing because it looked to be a cracking programme.anyone else experience the same problem?or offer a soloution.
hi
i use 2 different types of palms , both very cheap,
a colour one that is backlit, the type i think you have ,
i use this one for dull days/ winter collecting,
my other one in momochrome, not colour,no backlight , and shows clearly even on the brightest of days,
palm zire 21, look on ebay.
hope this helps
daz
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Thanks Paul i'll try that. Sorry for being so argumentative. Ian, yes that looks impressive.
Ewan i know that you mentioned you used to work in accounts , paul said something similar, but running a small business that involves cash is a little different.The reason for this is that cash can be fiddled.
When we, or our accountants fill in our tax return it is basically a profit and loss account. We could write anything we like, who's to know?
Well with the march of computers the tax man is doing less and less clerical type work because computers can handle all this and more and more tax inspector investigating. This is a very profitable strategy as most people who get looked at end up having to stump up, very often they go back seven years, so even a couple of thou a year soon adds up. If you give them any lip, or play the barrack room lawyer you get penaltys added on.
One of these investigations can turn your life upside down for anything up to eighteen months and is very stressfull. Some people emerge very bitter because they though that having an accountant or belonging to a certain fed gave them imunity.
Your chances of having one of these are that if you are in biz for say fifteen years, you will probably get one. If your book keeping is poor but you have a modest lifestyle you will still probably be okay.If you've got a wife who's on a good wage, similarly, that can explain a lot.
Otherwise your best chance of survival is to keep good books. The law says that they shoud be 'clear and easy to follow'. For small and simple businesses like ours we should be able to produce a profit and loss account at the end of the year, and keep a daily/weekly summary of cash resulting in a cash in hand figure that is carried forward to the following week.
For example, if you suddenly pay £500 cash into the bank, where did it come from? So long as it is recorded against the cash in hand, then this and things like it are fine.
You are quite right, you don't need to do these things, but if you are successful and don't want to have it all taken away from you ten years from now because you didn't know what a weekly cash in hand figure was.
More complex businesses do look at cash flow and include what is in the bank and do reconcilliations etc.
Anyway, both of the programmes seem to be having a stab at providing us with a figure so thanks again to both Paul and Ian.
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Hi
Ok - I just uploaded a modified version of V3.69X4.
The Finance Report now shows an analysis of payments received by payment method.
Is that what you want?
Paul
I've just downloaded this version and ran a report, yes this is what I wanted, thankyou. The actual figures were a bit wonky but we've only just started recording in this manner. Maybe the cash figure could be a little bolder, or more prominent, but it was there. Thankyou.
Cheers Clive.
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Hi Clive
Yes - they need a bit of tidying up - but, to be honest, I think you are the only person that wants to see them
Paul :-)
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Okay I'll shut up now but the fact that your programme now provides a weekly cash in hand figure (given that it's up to us to use it properly) seems like a pretty good selling point to me.
Thanks again
Clive
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I must confess I like it there too. :D
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thanks to guys who answered my query on palm pda much appreciated,i will investigate further