Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: geefree on October 20, 2008, 11:02:29 pm
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I have a builder friend, who has always worked, flat out...... until now,
his books are empty, nothing in the pipeline at all,
he asked how i was doing , i told him so far, so good.
his reply....... "well you will be ok, people had to pay me hundreds, everyone can afford a little bit each month, and the wives will want the windows cleaned always."
Then he said something that made me post this......he said " you started with just ladders and squeegee and a bucket didnt you?..... where can i buy them from?
So , when the recession bites, and tradesmen , bank clerks, etc etc lose their jobs,
they may head our way !.....
and i was only worried , thinking i may lose an odd punter,
now its got me thinking, how many will undercut us to get wages they will be so desperate for,?
leaving us less houses to canvas, because of an influx of competition.
your thoughts please. ;)
Gary.
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It does not bother me i worked through the recession in the late 80's as a window cleaner and did not make any differance.
A lot of people who start window cleaning don't stick with it so you will pick up the work when the clear off.
If your customers are happy with your work you are very unlikely to lose many.
When people find a good window cleaner they tend to stick with them.
The one's you do lose are not worth worrying about anyway.
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Gary have you ever read the book " chicken little " ?
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No, what is it, and whats your point?
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Gazza, you aint got nothing to worry about, your mate put it into a nutshell when he said my customers had to pay me hundreds!
Well tough and although I am sorry for anyone who is a builder, tradesman etc, and finding it hard at the moment, but if they were earning serious money when times were good, they should have a fair bit put aside, but me personally,I dont earn hundreds Per job but what I do is just charge enough and plod on doing what I love doing.
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Well said Paul Griffin
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thanks for your good answers apart from the " chicken little " bit,
im not a doom and gloom merchant, nor am i inviting other people in, (non window cleaners)... by stating something which could perhaps happen, as little outlay is needed to set up, so its a worth a few thoughts.
and no i dont think the sky is falling in, and i aint dragging us all away to be eaten by a fox ;D ;D ;D
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well said bwoofie and paul
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and no i dont think the sky is falling in,
it was part of a spaceship though :P :P :P :P
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Gazza
When times get hard in the building trade they always go window cleaning. It happens every time there is a slump.
And yes, they do undercut because they want ready cash not a long term business.
The trouble with window cleaning is that it is the easiest and cheapest business to start up and thats probably how and why most of us got in it.
This week I lost three customers in the same road, Coincidence? no I don't think so.
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when they do a crap job though, or dont turn up ypu may get custies back if you let them leave politely :)
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The problem is that the customers have been spooked by all this talk of recession and are worried about their own finances.
So when someone knocks on the door and offers to do their windows for half price they take it. They are not worried about whether the WC is as good as you, they are just looking at the money.
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when ladders where the general tool of window cleaners people would try the job and often find it too hard or a bit scary but now with wfp i can honestly see a lot more people sticking at it and it will certainly increase competition and so bring down the prices.
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when ladders where the general tool of window cleaners people would try the job and often find it too hard or a bit scary but now with wfp i can honestly see a lot more people sticking at it and it will certainly increase competition and so bring down the prices.
Im sure that is going to happen to some extent, however if you look at every other business, that is more the case, and yet the ones who work hard and smart, market well, and manage well, always turn a good profit! whether its mobile phones, gas and electric, etc, all have fierce competition, its how you run your own business that matters, if you adapt and work hard, you will never be out of pocket, services will always be needed, will just be harder to find who wants them, but they are always going to be out there, just got to start thinking about how you can be the no.1 choice in your area!! Get your name out there, so that people think of you when they want a wc, or gutter clean, conservatory clean etc, start doing domestic cleaning, gardening, anything else you can do - bit of plastering etc, and then recession (if it does get that bad) wont be the end of your business, you might come out of it stronger, ready to pick up the easy money again!
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When I first started the job it was rare to see another w/c in my area. Now every other car seems to have a set of pointers on the roof.
It could be they've always been there and I'm just more aware of them now. But a lot of the cars seem to be the family car....saw a 2006 Audi the other day complete with roof-rack and pointers!!!
Normally I nod and say hello to other w/cers who I pass in the street and always get an "alright mate" in return. But last week a couple of right hard looking geezers who I've never seen before really gave me the evils as I walked passed them.
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now thers an opertunuty laders sales man ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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more window cleaners will bring down what we charge, its only natural
i guess the people who have kept prices real will be ok, its the people who charge silly money who will find people will undercut them
i did a house today, its not really in my area i work, but i drive past it, so when asked if i would give them a price i did, i did it for 10 quid ( which is fair ) they had a qoute a fews months ago and it was 25 quid, its only a 3 bed semi with small extension ( that add's 2 windows ), 25 quid :o :o took me under half a hour
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I do the windows for a women who runs a company that organises industrial and commercial courses for the workplace.
Now I would have thought that her business would be one of the first to notice changes in the health of the economy, lets face it lots of people are going to see courses as surplus to requirement, an unnecessary cost and probably the first thing to go when a business is trying to cut down on costs.
So I was surprised when talking to her after doing her windows that she didnt know what recession it is theyre all talking about.
Have to say I couldnt help but agree with her.
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In a way it is a good thing for us and especially those of us of have started in the last couple of years.
Makes us think about our business's and what we can do to protect it and what other ways to promote and market it...keeps us on our toes which can only be a good thing.
Ok so the economy is taking a hit but we can overcome alot of the pain by thinking and acting to play the game with a little more savy...
Cheers
Dave.
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got 7 new customers today, just by being in the right street at the right time.... needless to say, i leaflet dropped the immediate area....
so a touch of good news here eh .? :D :D ;)
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I do the windows for a women who runs a company that organises industrial and commercial courses for the workplace.
Now I would have thought that her business would be one of the first to notice changes in the health of the economy, lets face it lots of people are going to see courses as surplus to requirement, an unnecessary cost and probably the first thing to go when a business is trying to cut down on costs.
So I was surprised when talking to her after doing her windows that she didnt know what recession it is theyre all talking about.
Have to say I couldnt help but agree with her.
A lot of this recession is Media Enhanced!
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I've lost a couple this week and gained a couple. Still managing to quote sensible prices and get them. I've made myself a promise not to lower my prices just to pick up work for fear of the recession we're in at mo. I expect some window cleaners will, I'm sticking to my prices otherwise what's the point in taking a pay cut per hour.
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i have picked up a £35 a month house today from a flyer
a £23 house from a recommendation
a £30 house from a recommendation
...but i've lost a £10 house and another £15 needed to go every other month.
i've also priced up a school, a leisure centre and another £20 house. i'm just finding that i'm turning a few customers over at the moment but the business is still coming in
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For a long time my round has been growing and ive been falling behind so now I am going round about every 6 -8 weeks anyway. I've even had a customer thank me for being considerate and not going so often.
I'm also in college one day per week training as an electrician so that in a couple of years when the economy picks up I will be ready to jump on the gravy train. If tradesmen can pinch our work when times are hard, why cant we do the same in return??? ;D
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For a long time my round has been growing and ive been falling behind so now I am going round about every 6 -8 weeks anyway. I've even had a customer thank me for being considerate and not going so often.
I'm also in college one day per week training as an electrician so that in a couple of years when the economy picks up I will be ready to jump on the gravy train. If tradesmen can pinch our work when times are hard, why cant we do the same in return??? ;D
Even without a gravy train, the more feathers you have in your cap the less likely you are to be out of work.
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"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines wil be thrown in to the sea".
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What if they are not insured,people won't want them really especially with ladders,even though they might be cheaper will they be insured.......I don't think so!
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What if they are not insured,people won't want them really especially with ladders,even though they might be cheaper will they be insured.......I don't think so!
People arent really botherd about insurance there just botherd about the price, unless its commercial
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"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines wil be thrown in to the sea".
Good old Eric ;)
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Gary have you ever read the book " chicken little " ?
I think you have hit the nail on the head there!! I have had exactly the same thought about a lot of Gazza's threads!!! ;D
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more window cleaners will bring down what we charge, its only natural
i guess the people who have kept prices real will be ok, its the people who charge silly money who will find people will undercut them
i did a house today, its not really in my area i work, but i drive past it, so when asked if i would give them a price i did, i did it for 10 quid ( which is fair ) they had a qoute a fews months ago and it was 25 quid, its only a 3 bed semi with small extension ( that add's 2 windows ), 25 quid :o :o took me under half a hour
£25 sounds about right to me, although I would have probably tried my luck at £30!! If there last quote was £25 matt, dosn't that make you think that perhaps your pricing far too low? other cleaners are obviously getting jobs at higher prices or they wouldn't be quoting at that level. If that had happened to me I would be kicking myself every time I did the job, knowing that I could probably be getting double what I am charging!! This is not a criticism matt, just trying to give you something to think about! ;)
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more window cleaners will bring down what we charge, its only natural
i guess the people who have kept prices real will be ok, its the people who charge silly money who will find people will undercut them
i did a house today, its not really in my area i work, but i drive past it, so when asked if i would give them a price i did, i did it for 10 quid ( which is fair ) they had a qoute a fews months ago and it was 25 quid, its only a 3 bed semi with small extension ( that add's 2 windows ), 25 quid :o :o took me under half a hour
£25 sounds about right to me, although I would have probably tried my luck at £30!! If there last quote was £25 matt, dosn't that make you think that perhaps your pricing far too low? other cleaners are obviously getting jobs at higher prices or they wouldn't be quoting at that level. If that had happened to me I would be kicking myself every time I did the job, knowing that I could probably be getting double what I am charging!! This is not a criticism matt, just trying to give you something to think about! ;)
Sounds extremely logical. Groundhog always talks sense. £25 to £10 is a big drop.
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I'm living in the wrong area; £25 for a 3 bed semi??
In Plymouth you'd be doing well to get the tenner in most areas.
To be honest I'd be looking at getting 3 of them done in an hour (WFP) and would be quite happy making £30 per hour; I like doing my blocks of flats ...... £6 each, maybe ten in a block, seven or eight flats an hour, it soon adds up, and after almost twenty years in the job it earns me a very comfortable living.
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What if they are not insured,people won't want them really especially with ladders,even though they might be cheaper will they be insured.......I don't think so!
People arent really botherd about insurance there just botherd about the price, unless its commercial
Well they would if somebody went through their conservitory roof while cleaning the window above if they were cleaning trad way and then sue them for injuries,I always say to people if they think I am more expensive than the last guy..........."I doubt the last guy was insured",the customers feels more at ease then.
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Has anyone been through a conservatory roof yet? I've stood on one before and they are pretty robust.
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A chap up the road from me did,showed me his arm with a big scar running down it,he told me thats why he made the change to WFP, can't say I blame him.
I have stood on the beam things before and can be slippery,thats when I first started and a bit silly taking chances,not now though ;D
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Has anyone been through a conservatory roof yet? I've stood on one before and they are pretty robust.
Technically, by law all roofs - even glass conservatory roofs must be walkable. However..........
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Well they would if somebody went through their conservitory roof while cleaning the window above if they were cleaning trad way and then sue them for injuries,I always say to people if they think I am more expensive than the last guy..........."I doubt the last guy was insured",the customers feels more at ease then.
of course there intrested in your insurance if that happens ::) but most are just intrested in the price end of! WHY do you think most say oh my last window cleaner only changed 5 pounds or what ever. So in a recession more and more people are going to be going with the cheaper window cleaner if moneys tight and one says its gna cost 15 quid mate! n the other says its gna b 6 quid mate ::)
.... insurance would't pay out anyway probs for climbing over a convservatory roof it's abit stupid in the first place.
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more window cleaners will bring down what we charge, its only natural
i guess the people who have kept prices real will be ok, its the people who charge silly money who will find people will undercut them
i did a house today, its not really in my area i work, but i drive past it, so when asked if i would give them a price i did, i did it for 10 quid ( which is fair ) they had a qoute a fews months ago and it was 25 quid, its only a 3 bed semi with small extension ( that add's 2 windows ), 25 quid :o :o took me under half a hour
£25 sounds about right to me, although I would have probably tried my luck at £30!! If there last quote was £25 matt, dosn't that make you think that perhaps your pricing far too low? other cleaners are obviously getting jobs at higher prices or they wouldn't be quoting at that level. If that had happened to me I would be kicking myself every time I did the job, knowing that I could probably be getting double what I am charging!! This is not a criticism matt, just trying to give you something to think about! ;)
it did make me think, yet i know that the last guy got booted because he charged too much, so 30 quid wouldnt have got the job, i clean ALOT of houses of a similar size, in a slightly better area and 10 quid is the price, sometimes 12.50 , but its a 10 quid house, i speak to a few other window cleaners and speak to the owneds of houses i dont do, 10 quid is the price
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i pulled up in a cul-de-sac that i clean a few weeks ago ....to find 2 wc canvassing my customers..... i introduced myself and we got talking...their price for these houses was £15....mine was £12....they were shocked and asked how i coud justify doing them at that price?
my reply
because i do that one , that one that one , that one , that one , that one, that one , that one, that one,that one etc,,etc.. and in the next street i do that one , that one , that one , that one,,,,,etc, etc , and in that street i do that one , that one, that one etc ;D
i then said ....(poitey)
thats why people like you wont get a look in! ::)
it appears my hourly rate is higher than theres as i dont need to travel inbetween jobs ;D
compact , compact, compact..... cheap? NO!......SENSIBLE? ....YES ;D
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two things. you have to clean a lot of houses quickly to cover their big mortgages and no matter how many w/c i see i still see twice as many window fitters and plumbers.
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two things. you have to clean a lot of houses quickly to cover their big mortgages and no matter how many w/c i see i still see twice as many window fitters and plumbers.
i have a big mortgage.....i dont get your point?
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Compact rounds keep the price down, but would you still clean them at a cheaper price if you start losing several?
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It is all very well either builders being short of work or people having been made redundant starting up window cleaning, but they still have to get the work!
That isn't an easy thing to do...it becomes self limiting.
For those of us who have already built up and established rounds, we are unlikely to lose more than a handful of accounts, especially if the work we have done is good, and the price isn't excessive.
Most people don't want to swap and chop just to save a pound, they also realise when the price they are charged is in fact reasonable. If they are paying £15 and someone comes along and says they will do it for a tenner, unless £15 is way high for the work they are going to know it is probably just some fly-by-night window cleaner who isn't going to last more than a couple of months.
It's much harder to build a round in times of recession!! And if there are new window cleaners around every corner, there will be far to little work to go around and sustain them all!!
It becomes self limiting in the end and if you are well established then you are far better set to withstand the recession than someone starting out.
And as for Matt and the 25 quid price V his 10 quid price;
Well I'm with Matt on this one, maybe he could have gone from 10 quid to £12.50 but an average semi is only going to take him 10 or 15 minutes to clean, and 25 or 30 quid falls well into the category of over priced and greedy (in most area's of the country anyway)
And the customer is also going to be well aware some window cleaner who knocks out their house in ten minutes and then knocks on the door asking for £30 is ripping her off.
We all want to make good money, but it is no good just charging extortionate prices to do it. You make money by working smart, if you are a one man outfit then you hone your skills so that you are as quick and efficient as it is possible to be.
If you have what it takes then you will build your business, employ others and so on and so forth.
In times of plenty you might get away with sky high prices, but when the bad times come, then you are the window cleaner who is going to lose out to those very builders who are starting up!
Whereas matt, charging a tenner a house will still be earning bloody good money and won't be losing more than a handful of accounts to new starters....
Ian
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I know I wouldn't ke to be starting up at the moment. I put about 700 good leaflets out at the start of december to detatched properties and have had one call (got the job). still getting about 3 a week from advertising/recommendations etc. (i don't think that's too bad considering recession/time of year.
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Hi all, first time poster on this particular forum. Im a builder, joiner by trade, done a tiling course 2 years ago as well, loads and I mean loads of work until August this year (2008). Drummer and guitarist in cover bands as well, also since 1989 been a self employed window cleaner, went wfp 3 yrs ago now. Read loads about the "crunch" on various forums of all types. The post by Ian -Giles really does sum up the situation perfectly for all sensible inteligent window cleaners (yup.......there are some out there). My wee point is this, read his thread, and if you or your buisness plan doesnt totally agree with his point of view, considering this economic instability, well then I think your up crak kreek without a paddle. Things will get a helluva lot tougher no matter where you live and work in the UK. Price is absoulutely everything (forget quallity of work...... we are only cleaners), what we do can be done by almost anyone with health on their side.
Happy new year to all and all the best for 2009 .........And good luck..... we may all need it.
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I was cleaning a house a couple of weeks ago in a road where I do about a quarter of the houses. When the owner paid me she said that the lady opposite in no 93 wanted me to knock.
So when I went there and knocked I quoted her £14 which is what I charge the other houses in the street although that price is a bit old now. It could do with putting up to £16.
OK she said after I had told her £14 , my present window cleaner charges £15 so you've got the job. She was prepared to dump her old WC for £1.
So now I have the job until someone knocks and quotes £13. You see, they do exist. Lets just hope there aren't too many of them. I don't have many illusions anymore, as Ronnie says "we are only cleaners".
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Well I'm with Matt on this one, maybe he could have gone from 10 quid to £12.50 but an average semi is only going to take him 10 or 15 minutes to clean, and 25 or 30 quid falls well into the category of over priced and greedy (in most area's of the country anyway)
Ian
Actually Matt said it took him half an hour, not 10-15mins!! What happened to the Ian who used to say he worked out his prices at £1 a minute? My point is that if people like you and you sell yourself and your services well, you will be able to charge a higher price! If you go in with a high price, you can always lower it if the customer says no, I have done this many times, and if done right the customer feels good because they feel that you are doing them a favour. Many people I speak to are actually feeling better off than before this whole credit crunch thing, for example my own mortgage has gone down by over £500 a month in the last couple of months! Diesel is cheaper, and there are bargains everywhere! The only customers I think you are going to lose are the ones who are made redundant, and you will probably lose these no matter what you charge!! In the last 3 months I have lost just one customer (he was made redundant) and I have continued to gain new customers at a rate of about 2-3 a week, with no advertising, just a handful of leaflets put out every week.
As for being 'just a cleaner' well I would say that not all cleaners are equal! There is a window cleaner in my area who employs 3 blokes and has well over 1000 customers, I reguarly get calls from his customers asking for a price as they are not happy with his work, on average my price is 2.5 times what he charges, ie he charges £10 I charge £25. And I nearly always get the job! I get it because I have been recomended to the customer, because of the way I conduct myself when I price up, and the fact that they know I am going to do an excellent job! ;)
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and the fact that they know I am going to do an excellent job! ;)
My customers just want a fairly competant done for £10. People who want perfection for £25 aren't my sort of customers because competant I am, perfectionist I ain't ;D
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OK chaps Karm doyne! Karm doyne!
This is how I see it....
How many custies have you lost between Jan-June 2008 and July-Dec 2008?
Me? Less than a dozen and I can think of only four that I believe are due to the recession and that was in October/November when everything went "free fall" in bank-land. (The rest was down to me dropping (2) them dying (2) or moving (2/3)
In the same period, with no effort I have picked up about two dozen and when diesel rocketed in July/Aug I even lifted the price of a few underpriced accounts.
Now, I too think things will get tougher next year but I am confident that I will lose only those who lose their jobs and those who get targetted by an underpricing newbie. Knowing the make-up of my round I predict (in an "I'll eat my hat" sort of way ;D) that I will lose:
5/7 to job loss
4/5 to natural wastage
2 to me dropping
5/6 to new cleaners
and will gain
10/12 recommends
If I average all these at about £12, I lose £240 pcm and gain £120 pcm.
I can live with that, but I won't because by the end of month three if my prediction proves true then I will door knock around my existing custies.
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My customers just want a fairly competant done for £10. People who want perfection for £25 aren't my sort of customers because competant I am, perfectionist I ain't ;D
Doing a perfect job with wfp is easy! why would you settle for anything less? ???
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and the fact that they know I am going to do an excellent job! ;)
My customers just want a fairly competant done for £10. People who want perfection for £25 aren't my sort of customers because competant I am, perfectionist I ain't ;D
That's me too Simon, If they want a valeting job they can have it, but not for the ten quid they are prepared to pay.
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My customers just want a fairly competant done for £10. People who want perfection for £25 aren't my sort of customers because competant I am, perfectionist I ain't ;D
Doing a perfect job with wfp is easy! why would you settle for anything less? ???
I'm trad not wfp. But if it's "easy" doing a perfect job with wfp why are you able to charge 2.5 times what others are charging?
Either you're a master of the wfp technique and give far far superior results than your peers and can thus command 2.5 times the price....or you're just simply overpriced (note here: I've avoided saying rip-off merchant ;))
So mon ami, are you offering a superior wfp service?...but no you can't be as you've implied that anybody can do that. Or are you merely overcharging?
If it's the former then yes you deserved the premium over other window cleaners in your area.
But if it's the latter then good luck to you, but please don't make some kind of virtue out of it!
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sorry for this groundhog but i think you our full of crap...
you seem to be ripping people of...if you tell the truth about your prices.
maybe you do them every 8 weeks or more..and thats why you charge so much.
you dont wear uniform... your probably not insured..god knows what your vans like..
you use a harris pole....you put clips on u tube...again you dont look very profesional or value for money..
if your telling the truth...you will feel the pressure over the next few years.
but i dont think you would come this forum a tell us you were losing customers because people would jump on you back..... may be you just like leading people up the garden path...
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sorry for this groundhog but i think you our full of crap...
you seem to be ripping people of...if you tell the truth about your prices.
maybe you do them every 8 weeks or more..and thats why you charge so much.
you dont wear uniform... your probably not insured..god knows what your vans like..
you use a harris pole....you put clips on u tube...again you dont look very profesional or value for money..
if your telling the truth...you will feel the pressure over the next few years.
but i dont think you would come this forum a tell us you were losing customers because people would jump on you back..... may be you just like leading people up the garden path...
Well I really don't know why I have bothered coming back to the forum, with replies like this I don't think I will be wasting anymore of my valuable time here! Goodbye >:(
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My customers just want a fairly competant done for £10. People who want perfection for £25 aren't my sort of customers because competant I am, perfectionist I ain't ;D
Doing a perfect job with wfp is easy! why would you settle for anything less? ???
I have read on past posts that some cleaners even do the guttering on cons as standard, fine if customers are prepared to pay for the extra work, It's the same when it comes to changing brushes to do the top sills.
I think what Simon is getting at is that many customers want the job done as cheaply as possible, certainly true with most of mine, so be it, they get whatever they want to pay for.
Groundhog, don't be daft, your posts are valued, and I thought you had a thicker skin than that.
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groundhog i wasnt being nasty...i was just telling it as see and read...
if you tell the truth,,then maybe you will have to think hard how you take your business forward.(maybe iam to cheap) i have areas and streets on my round so its compact
maybe thats why iam affordable..
example ..i under cut a window cleaner.semi detached bungalow with small canservatory
he charged £14.00 ..i charged £8.
i have 10 propertys in this culd-a-sac of 15..he had one
when he was dropped he said i couldnt do as good a job for that price.
he only did one side of the conservatory he didnt do frames and the sils wear green.
it took me approx 15mins no more
people will under cut because they can it doesnt mean they do a crap job.
it will happen to you...
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sorry for this groundhog but i think you our full of crap...
you seem to be ripping people of...if you tell the truth about your prices.
maybe you do them every 8 weeks or more..and thats why you charge so much.
you dont wear uniform... your probably not insured..god knows what your vans like..
you use a harris pole....you put clips on u tube...again you dont look very profesional or value for money..
if your telling the truth...you will feel the pressure over the next few years.
but i dont think you would come this forum a tell us you were losing customers because people would jump on you back..... may be you just like leading people up the garden path...
Well I really don't know why I have bothered coming back to the forum, with replies like this I don't think I will be wasting anymore of my valuable time here! Goodbye >:(
Groundhog you just have to ignore it mate,you can`t tell some on here it`s like banging your head against a brick wall if they can`t do it numptyody can attitude.
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topic recession.....
times getting harder and tuffer...
if you have inflated prices you can be under cut and will lose work..
if you can get away with ripping people of fair play ..
horses for courses i suppose...
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Im sure Groundhog can take it, he dishes it out, therefore of course he can take it ;D
Wouldnt worry, if he meant it he would have deleted his account.
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Also it depends on the area you live in. Groundhog has stated in the past that most of his customers are mega earners. ;D Maybe they are. But for most of us we are sevicing normal people with normal incomes. The only other well off types are the cash rich retired people who also may have lost touch with reality. However most people who have their marbles won't be paying crazy prices whilst there incomes shrink in the future.
A good wage in my area would be £15.00 per hour (excellent wage for most jobs in my district) when their wages drop or outgoings rise they won't pay £30 for a £10 job for long.
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why not charge expensive if you're still getting the work?
i'd rather have an expensively priced round and lose a few to undercutters than work for a mediocre wage all the time for fear of being undercut.
there are more custies out there looking for a top notch window cleaner, than there are top notch window cleaners to go round imo.
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A WC might price up a job and think i`ll do that for £10-15 cheaper than that that`s what the WC thinks,the customer however dosen`t know you and they think that`s a lot cheaper than the other 1 and it gets them thinking a bit more.After more thinking most customers will come to the conclusion that you won`t be as reliable as the present cleaner and would rather pay a bit more for peace of mind and be certain that you`ll turn up and not be a fly by night which in my experience 80% are.Don`t get caught up on price and think that this is what will keep jobs for you it isn`t always the case,customers like people they know they can trust not just a few quid cheaper WC.It might work with your 2 up 2 down but it wouldn`t stand a chance with big domestic type work there not interested in saving a couple of quid here and there,and more often than not there not concerned by recession anyway.
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Thought that craig commented fairly mildly and can't understand groundhogs position. He spent a long time championing the diy harris on price grounds, but claims to be money whizz?
The two things don't do together. You can't mix cheapo mix and match tat with top end hourly rates because the time taken to avoid paying for proper kit such as an xtel is more expensive than the pole.
However, i remember from the vid that he is smart etc and a brisk worker. This isn't to wind him up, just to say that his thinking is why the smart guys just buy the kit and forget it.
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Thought that craig commented fairly mildly and can't understand groundhogs position. He spent a long time championing the diy harris on price grounds, but claims to be money whizz?
The two things don't do together. You can't mix cheapo mix and match tat with top end hourly rates because the time taken to avoid paying for proper kit such as an xtel is more expensive than the pole.
However, i remember from the vid that he is smart etc and a brisk worker. This isn't to wind him up, just to say that his thinking is why the smart guys just buy the kit and forget it.
It`s the same with hot water i tried the L5 heater but it`s not worth the agro to be honest,the flame goes out and i don`t care what anyone say`s that heater is not supposed to be used inside a van.What i`ve learnt is that there`s no short cuts you may aswell just get the real thing that is designed to do the job you want it to do,a heater switch it on and forget it or a pole the same,in the long run you`ll only give yourself a headache and end up buying the thing in the end anyway.
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may be you need to look again at u tube..
its not about the harris pole either i made one..
its level of service for price charged...the way things our going hes leaving his self open
for under cutting more and more people will be coming into business with forums like this its so much easier...and prices that get talked about no wonder.
his potential customer will dry up as people get tighter..he will then have to bring prices down.. then people talk..you charge them x amount but you charge me so so then they lose trust and think they have been riped off..
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If they trust him and don`t mind paying him that that`s all that matters the relationship between him and the customer,there not all trying to save a few quid some people don`t mind paying for a good reliable service and in most cases with WC`s you don`t get this especially with the cheap brigade.
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its not all about price, iv had people canvassing my round and undercutting.. but my custies want someone reliable, they wont risk losing a reliable cleaner, for the sake of a fiver..
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its not all about price, iv had people canvassing my round and undercutting.. but my custies want someone reliable, they wont risk losing a reliable cleaner, for the sake of a fiver..
;)
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what if it was £10 or£15 pounds would that make a difference. how would you feel..
ok talk this time next year and see were we all stand.....
see how we adapted and changed .. if gets as bad as they say (hope not)
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what if it was £10 or£15 pounds would that make a difference. how would you feel..
ok talk this time next year and see were we all stand.....
see how we adapted and changed .. if gets as bad as they say (hope not)
Where do you live Craig.
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n.ireland
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i woodent swop my haris pole 95% of my work with haris wot i like a bout is liteness of it . my L5 never gos out walst in use , £150 and 1 hower a genst 2K , haris is not cost but so lite
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sorry for this groundhog but i think you our full of crap...
you seem to be ripping people of...if you tell the truth about your prices.
maybe you do them every 8 weeks or more..and thats why you charge so much.
you dont wear uniform... your probably not insured..god knows what your vans like..
you use a harris pole....you put clips on u tube...again you dont look very profesional or value for money..
if your telling the truth...you will feel the pressure over the next few years.
but i dont think you would come this forum a tell us you were losing customers because people would jump on you back..... may be you just like leading people up the garden path...
Craig,
This post was out of order, you just cannot come on here and tell someone he is full of crap, choose your words with a little more consideration, pull someone's post apart by all means, but try not to be inflammatory whilst you do so.
Groundhog:
I still maiintain that you should aim for a £1.00 per minute worked, and at a tenner for a semi, or 12 quid for one with a conservatory the size of the one Matt described it would take me no more than 10 minutes personally...I have worked hard at being very efficient at what I do....but I don't necessarily expect everyone else to be the same as me!
Matt may well take 30 minutes on that account, but that being said, ten or 12 quid is a good price in most area's of the country, and would certainly allow for a price per minute worked of £1.00.
And for any that haven't heard me witter on about '£1.00 per minute worked' that doesn't mean you are going to go along earning £60 an hour, 8 hours a day, 40 hours a week!!!
To achieve something along the lines of and annual income between 20-25k you have to be turning over something along the lines of £32,000 per year, to do that your price per minute worked needs to be somewhere around a £1.00 per minute worked....
What is your annual tax bill...mm?
If it is only a few hundred quid then you are earning pennies, if it is upwards of a couple of grand then you are starting to earn decent money, you only pay tax on your profit, and your profit is your income...it isn't your turnover!
So, so many window cleaners think their turnover is their wage, or they see themselves knocking out a really good turnover for a few hours and think that they are earning mega money, but you can only really work out what you are truly earning by looking back over the last 12 months...and it is your tax return that will tell you that at the end of the day...
Ian
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ian get of your high horse.
you need to go and look at other posts . people our been brought down and harrassed for wear they live.. but then thats your mates
crap as in rubbish. i apologized before i said it and after...
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I have big bills.I'm probably just lucky.
Craig is of course right, price is everything.
For years sainsbury's sold on quality (to give one example), not now.
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I have big bills.I'm probably just lucky.
Craig is of course right, price is everything.
For years sainsbury's sold on quality (to give one example), not now.
Don`t you mean Marks and Spencer,before the taste the difference range in Sainsburys it was rubbish.
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Ian, your post is spot on regarding turnover and earnings. I thought i was earning some brilliant money untill i checked my costs the other day - quite a shock.
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Jeepers I wish i could get some of the money you guys are charging. WC round my way (northants) getting £5 on average for a 3 bed.
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Well I'm with Matt on this one, maybe he could have gone from 10 quid to £12.50 but an average semi is only going to take him 10 or 15 minutes to clean, and 25 or 30 quid falls well into the category of over priced and greedy (in most area's of the country anyway)
Ian
Actually Matt said it took him half an hour, not 10-15mins!! What happened to the Ian who used to say he worked out his prices at £1 a minute? My point is that if people like you and you sell yourself and your services well, you will be able to charge a higher price! If you go in with a high price, you can always lower it if the customer says no, I have done this many times, and if done right the customer feels good because they feel that you are doing them a favour. Many people I speak to are actually feeling better off than before this whole credit crunch thing, for example my own mortgage has gone down by over £500 a month in the last couple of months! Diesel is cheaper, and there are bargains everywhere! The only customers I think you are going to lose are the ones who are made redundant, and you will probably lose these no matter what you charge!! In the last 3 months I have lost just one customer (he was made redundant) and I have continued to gain new customers at a rate of about 2-3 a week, with no advertising, just a handful of leaflets put out every week.
As for being 'just a cleaner' well I would say that not all cleaners are equal! There is a window cleaner in my area who employs 3 blokes and has well over 1000 customers, I reguarly get calls from his customers asking for a price as they are not happy with his work, on average my price is 2.5 times what he charges, ie he charges £10 I charge £25. And I nearly always get the job! I get it because I have been recomended to the customer, because of the way I conduct myself when I price up, and the fact that they know I am going to do an excellent job! ;)
i actually said "took me under half a hour" i guess it was 20 mins, it was a first clean for me, so i explained how the system worked and told them abit about myself etc et , next time it will be down to about 15 mins i would guess
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what if it was £10 or£15 pounds would that make a difference. how would you feel..
ok talk this time next year and see were we all stand.....
see how we adapted and changed .. if gets as bad as they say (hope not)
they woudnt be able to...i have a very competitive pricing structure...ive worked as a wc through a recession before ::) have you craig?.....i understand your angle ,and i also know that pride comes before a fall, but until then i wont start worrying about guys trying to undercut me.....by the amount of tips and bottles of wine iv recieved lately i know im appreciated.
when i went canvassing this afternoon lots of people said "sorry , i have a wc" not one however asked me for a price to see if i was cheaper!
anyway i have a backup plan ::)
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sainsbury sold quality and tesco sold cheap but they had to change to what the consumer wanted and to compete..
some with ther head screwed on could make really good business in window cleaning.
with right name and logo ther is one on this site who iam impressed by..even more so in this climate
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discount is only my on here name.
I think we all mostly agree but say it in different ways. I love strategy and know you are right. I am going to advertise more and use quality, cost and volume.
Don't worry Craig, if the gaffer caught half of them on here talking big they'd get the sack, especially that gilesey.
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Ian, your post is spot on regarding turnover and earnings. I thought i was earning some brilliant money untill i checked my costs the other day - quite a shock.
I think that`s what Ian meant when he said some don`t charge enough or take these expenses into account.