Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Dean Aspects on October 18, 2008, 10:32:00 am

Title: Diesel prices
Post by: Dean Aspects on October 18, 2008, 10:32:00 am
Just filled up yesterday and the price is down to 112p it might only be a few pence down per litre but at its worst level a couple of months back i was doing 150 miles for my £30 worth but now do 200 miles for the same money it does make a difference
How much is it where you are?
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: LWC on October 18, 2008, 10:32:55 am
112 here to

petrol 99

going in the right direction
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: seandyer2003 on October 18, 2008, 10:36:43 am
110.9 this morning, and unleaded 99.9 :)
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: simon knight on October 18, 2008, 10:41:50 am

Still a pricey 119 here in SW London >:(
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: birdymiller on October 18, 2008, 10:52:41 am
I fill up every month and for the last few times the price has gone down straight after. I reckon im down £20 in 3 months, i might start putting £20 in every week.
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: Dean Aspects on October 18, 2008, 10:54:59 am
I fill up every month and for the last few times the price has gone down straight after. I reckon im down £20 in 3 months, i might start putting £20 in every week.

I know what you mean i heard the price was going down again so i held off this week i was running on fresh air all week  ;D
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: wightsurf on October 18, 2008, 11:00:07 am
.70p,,,,I run on Biofuel  ;D
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: simon knight on October 18, 2008, 11:15:05 am
I fill up every month and for the last few times the price has gone down straight after. I reckon im down £20 in 3 months, i might start putting £20 in every week.

I know what you mean i heard the price was going down again so i held off this week i was running on fresh air all week  ;D

No no no...do the maths:

Week 1: buy 15ltrs @ 120p = £18
Week 2: buy 15ltrs @ 117p = £17.55
Week 3: buy 15ltrs @ 114p = £17.10
Week 4: buy 15ltrs @ 111p = £16.65
                     
Equals 60ltrs costing £69.30

Whereas: Put in 60ltrs @ 120p on week 1 = £72
Then week 5 put in 60ltrs @ 111p = £66.60

Therefore average spent = £69.30

The same!
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: [GQC] Tim on October 18, 2008, 12:33:37 pm
I fill up every month and for the last few times the price has gone down straight after. I reckon im down £20 in 3 months, i might start putting £20 in every week.

I know what you mean i heard the price was going down again so i held off this week i was running on fresh air all week  ;D

No no no...do the maths:

Week 1: buy 15ltrs @ 120p = £18
Week 2: buy 15ltrs @ 117p = £17.55
Week 3: buy 15ltrs @ 114p = £17.10
Week 4: buy 15ltrs @ 111p = £16.65
                     
Equals 60ltrs costing £69.30

Whereas: Put in 60ltrs @ 120p on week 1 = £72
Then week 5 put in 60ltrs @ 111p = £66.60

Therefore average spent = £69.30

The same!

Excellent. ;D
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: AuRavelling79 on October 18, 2008, 01:16:10 pm
NOT EXCELLENT! WRONG! Dean Thorlby is quite right.

In Simon's example he spends £72 in week one for 60 litres

By the time he has used it up it has cost (obviously) £72

The 15 litres every week x 4 example adds up to £69.30 = saving of £2.70

Now they both have empty tanks.

Week 5 they put fuel in at a lower price and if the price drops then the guy putting in a smaller weekly amount will save money. If the price goes up then the guy putting in the whole 60 litres saves money.

(In the second example you are averaging the use of 120 litres not 60)

Also the psychological benefit of having little fuel in your tank means that you might drive more economically and take less unnecessary trips...
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: Moderator David@stives on October 18, 2008, 01:19:46 pm
www.petrolprices.com
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: dmlservices on October 18, 2008, 01:35:54 pm
what i would like to know is , why the hell is diesel still dearer than petrol, a few years ago it was actually cheaper than petrol, and was one of the reasons i changed from petol to diesel, was using estate cars at the time.

daz
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: AuRavelling79 on October 18, 2008, 01:54:46 pm
what i would like to know is , why the hell is diesel still dearer than petrol, a few years ago it was actually cheaper than petrol, and was one of the reasons i changed from petol to diesel, was using estate cars at the time.

daz

Because demand for diesel (although cheaper to produce) has risen with all the new cars being diesel and what-knot.

I remember going to Tenerife about 10 years ago and hiring a diesel astra/opel kadet and diesel was two thirds the price of petrol at the time.

I wonder if the gap (which has been about 10% in the last year) will narrow fractionally as demand drops - but prolly not.

I reckon I save 25/30% on mpg with diesel over petrol for a similar sized car and so the differential deffo works in my favour.

Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: simon knight on October 18, 2008, 02:20:03 pm
NOT EXCELLENT! WRONG! Dean Thorlby is quite right.

In Simon's example he spends £72 in week one for 60 litres

By the time he has used it up it has cost (obviously) £72

The 15 litres every week x 4 example adds up to £69.30 = saving of £2.70

Now they both have empty tanks.

Week 5 they put fuel in at a lower price and if the price drops then the guy putting in a smaller weekly amount will save money. If the price goes up then the guy putting in the whole 60 litres saves money.

(In the second example you are averaging the use of 120 litres not 60)

Also the psychological benefit of having little fuel in your tank means that you might drive more economically and take less unnecessary trips...

Honestly Malc, I've just shown mathmatically that the price will be the same. In week 5 if the fuel price then falls again the same formula applies.

Also, yes in the 2nd example I'm averaging 120 ltrs not 60....so what? it works out at £69.30.

Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: simon knight on October 18, 2008, 02:35:58 pm
114p in rossendale

Yeah well in Rossendale they still point at aeroplanes... ;D
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: Dean Aspects on October 18, 2008, 02:46:10 pm
NOT EXCELLENT! WRONG! Dean Thorlby is quite right.


ooh ooh i was right  ;D now i have that in writing  i feel so superior
Suppose someone will come along and knock me down a peg or two the wife probably

And just went past the petrol station and petrol has dropped another penny now at 100p
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: simon knight on October 18, 2008, 02:51:03 pm
NOT EXCELLENT! WRONG! Dean Thorlby is quite right.


ooh ooh i was right  ;D now i have that in writing  i feel so superior
Suppose someone will come along and knock me down a peg or two the wife probably

And just went past the petrol station and petrol has dropped another penny now at 100p

Don't get excited. Malc may well be a great window cleaner but mathmatician he ain't.
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: AuRavelling79 on October 18, 2008, 03:40:19 pm
Wrong Simon, because the first average you give is only over 60 litres for guy one but 120 litres for guy two...

When guy one fills up another 4 times 15L making 120 litres his second lot of fill ups will attract the lower price and his 120 litres will be commensurately cheaper.

If the price goes up it's the other way round.

Sorry but my "A" level Maths is accurate this time.
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: simon knight on October 18, 2008, 04:36:38 pm
Wrong Simon, because the first average you give is only over 60 litres for guy one but 120 litres for guy two...

When guy one fills up another 4 times 15L making 120 litres his second lot of fill ups will attract the lower price and his 120 litres will be commensurately cheaper.

If the price goes up it's the other way round.

Sorry but my "A" level Maths is accurate this time.

Right Mr Malc, firstly there are no 2 guys in my example...read it carefully please! There is only one guy who goes to a petrol station on a Monday morning and puts in 15ltrs @ 120 = £18,  the next Monday he puts in 15ltrs @ 117 = £17.55, Monday 3 he puts in 15ltrs @ 114 = £17.10, and Monday 4 he again puts in 15ltrs @ 111 = £16.65

Making a grand total of 60ltrs costing £69.30...yes?

Now just suppose on Monday One he puts in 60ltrs @ the then price of 120...he will pay £72...yes?

This fuel last until Monday 5

And then on the 5th Monday (bearing in mind he's bought the 1st 4 weeks of fuel) he buys another 60ltrs @ 111 it costs him £66.60...yes?

Now assuming you don't dispute the maths so far this means that on the 5th Monday he has bought in total 120ltrs of fuel at a cost of £72 (Monday one) and a further £66.60 (Monday two) making a total outlay of £138.60 divide this by 120 and you get 115.5 pence per ltr...yes?

Now if he'd bought it the 15ltr a week way..15ltrs @120
                                                                      15ltrs @117
                                                                      15ltrs@114
                                                                       15ltrs@111

Equals (funnily enough) £115.5 per ltr...yes?

Now this only works if the price is falling (doesn't matter by how much or how fast) and the guy buys the same amount every time.

Malc it's standard maths....I think in your case the "A" meant Absent!

Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: AuRavelling79 on October 18, 2008, 05:22:02 pm
No Simon! because at the fifth Monday the guy buying 15 litres at a time is already £2.70 up on the guy who bought 60 litres at the higher price.

If the guy buying 15 litres at a time continues to do so for the next 4/5 weeks in a falling price market he will do the same again over the guy who buys 60 litres at once. He will save another £2.70.

You are making the fundamental mistake of averaging the whole 120 litres instead of the 60 and then the 15 litre increments.

The first 60 litres stand alone; don't bring a second 60 litres into it.

Think it through. It reverses if the price goes up.

Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: AuRavelling79 on October 18, 2008, 05:38:45 pm
OK, my last word on this let's work on 120 litres over 8 weeks

Example 1 over 8 weeks

60 litres @ 1.20 = £72
60 litres @ 1.10 = £66

Total spend over 8 weeks = £138

Example 2 over 8 weeks

15 litres @ 1.20 = £18
15 litres @ 1.18 = £17.70
15 litres @ 1.15 = £17.25
15 litres @ 1.12 = £16.80

15 litres @ 1.10 = £16.50
15 litres @ 1.08 = £16.20
15 litres @ 1.06 = £15.90
15 litres @ 1.04 = £15.60

Total         £133.95

Saving £ 4.05

Ipso facto - my case rests (as Paddington bear said)
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: simon knight on October 18, 2008, 05:40:27 pm
No Simon! because at the fifth Monday the guy buying 15 litres at a time is already £2.70 up on the guy who bought 60 litres at the higher price.



PLEASE Malc read my example carefully!..there are no 2 guys...just one.

Now please do the maths!
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: john tomkins on October 18, 2008, 06:17:25 pm
Simon, I can see where Malc is coming from....

In your 1st example you buy 60 ltrs
In your 2nd example you buy 120 ltrs

To get the correct maths, you must continue with your 1st example and buy fuel for another 4 weeks.
Dependant on the cost per ltr will determine whether you'll gain or not.

There you go........confusing :P
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: AuRavelling79 on October 18, 2008, 07:14:35 pm
Thank you John...

Simon - no two guys - just one guy doing different things!
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: simon knight on October 18, 2008, 09:05:51 pm

Malc you're wrong and the clue is: Week 9!  Go figure 8)
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: birdymiller on October 19, 2008, 03:43:32 pm
Whichever way you look at it simon if i put £20 in every week and the price keeps coming down for those 4 weeks then it is going to work out cheaper than filling up at the start of the 4 weeks because i will be receiving more fuel for my money.
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: AuRavelling79 on October 19, 2008, 06:05:19 pm
OK - week 9 you put in 60 litres at £1 per litre and don't fill up for four weeks - by the start of week 13 you have spent £60 and have an empty tank.

Me - week 9 15L at £1 = £15.00
week 10     15L at 95p = £14.25
week 11     15L at 90p = £13.50
week 12     15L at 85p = £12.75

by the start of week 13 I have spent £55.50 for the same amount of fuel.

We both have empty tanks - your error is you have factored in an extra 60 litres in your first example to take the average from whereas I will buy that extra 60 litres in four instalments on a reducing price...

Others on the forum are seeing this... and it will save them money in a reducing price market.
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: richyp on October 19, 2008, 06:23:36 pm
you can buy red for 120 per gallon
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: Dean Aspects on October 19, 2008, 07:44:44 pm
you can buy red for 120 per gallon

And if you get caught by the DOT they will fine you heavy the farmer near me got caught with it in his lorry and got a £3000 fine

Every so often the dual carriageway i use on almost a daily basis is targeted by them and the police so dont do it
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: simon knight on October 20, 2008, 06:52:18 am
OK - week 9 you put in 60 litres at £1 per litre and don't fill up for four weeks - by the start of week 13 you have spent £60 and have an empty tank.

Me - week 9 15L at £1 = £15.00
week 10     15L at 95p = £14.25
week 11     15L at 90p = £13.50
week 12     15L at 85p = £12.75

by the start of week 13 I have spent £55.50 for the same amount of fuel.

We both have empty tanks - your error is you have factored in an extra 60 litres in your first example to take the average from whereas I will buy that extra 60 litres in four instalments on a reducing price...

Others on the forum are seeing this... and it will save them money in a reducing price market.

No Malc it's week 9 where I catch up. Let me show you:

My 1st 120ltrs cost me £138 making an average of price of 115 per ltr

Your 1st 120ltrs cost you £133.95 making an average price of 111.625 per ltr

OK so far you're ahead.

But on week 9 I buy another 60ltrs @ 100 . This means that in total I've purchased 180ltrs costing £198 which gives an average ltr price of 110

You on week 9 but your usual 15ltrs @ 100. This means that in total you've purchased 135 ltrs costing £148.95 which gives an average ltr price of 110.33.

By the end of week 12 you'll be ahead again...but as soon as I do my 60ltr fill on week 13 we're back to evens.

Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: simon knight on October 20, 2008, 06:56:49 am
Oh, the reason for you're average on week 9 being 110.33 against my 110 is because I've bought more at the lower price.
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: gary999 on October 20, 2008, 08:09:56 am
gor blimey get a life the pair of you,i wonder which one of you
will take your ball home first ;D
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: jeff1 on October 20, 2008, 08:40:44 am
Morrisons 98p per/L today
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: Oakley Windows on October 20, 2008, 09:20:40 am
Morrisons 98p per/L today

They can start all over again  ;D
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: Bobs Window Cleaning on October 20, 2008, 09:29:39 am
You 2 gave me a headache :)
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: Dean Aspects on October 20, 2008, 06:12:40 pm
Morrisons 98p per/L today

Isnt that for petrol though the Morrisons near here is 110p for diesel and 98p for petrol
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: AuRavelling79 on October 20, 2008, 06:14:54 pm
Simon, when you do your 13 week fill up you've put in more litres than me - you've got to have exactly the same amount of litres to work your average from. You add in another 60 litres and it skews the average - can't you see that?
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: simon knight on October 20, 2008, 06:33:48 pm
Simon, when you do your 13 week fill up you've put in more litres than me - you've got to have exactly the same amount of litres to work your average from. You add in another 60 litres and it skews the average - can't you see that?

Ok Malc, let's take your last example:

15ltr @ 100p = £15
15ltr @   95p = £14.25
15ltr @   90p = £13.50
15ltr @   85p = £12.75

Total spend = £55.50

Me: 30ltr @ 100p =£30
       30ltr @  85p  =£25.50

Total spend = £55.50

Where is your advantage?
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: Dean Aspects on October 20, 2008, 06:47:04 pm
Simon, when you do your 13 week fill up you've put in more litres than me - you've got to have exactly the same amount of litres to work your average from. You add in another 60 litres and it skews the average - can't you see that?

Ok Malc, let's take your last example:

15ltr @ 100p = £15
15ltr @   95p = £14.25
15ltr @   90p = £13.50
15ltr @   85p = £12.75

Total spend = £55.50

Me: 30ltr @ 100p =£30
       30ltr @  85p  =£25.50

Total spend = £55.50

Where is your advantage?

Simon i am with Malc on this one
If you use your diesel at the same rate i.e at 30 ltr a time then you would purchase your second 30ltr at 90p not 85p not that it matters as i only started this thread to see what prices were around the country  :)
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: AuRavelling79 on October 20, 2008, 06:52:20 pm
You've moved the goal posts Simon... 30L to my 15 instead of 60 to my 15 on the first fill; but anyway

Assuming we use fuel at the same rate -

Week one - I put in 15L you put in 30L at £1.00

At the end of week one I put in another 15L at 95p you don't cuz you've got 15 left.

At the end of week two we both have empty tanks (I've used my second 15L you've used up your original 30L)


I've bought 15L at £1 and 15L at 95p and spent £29.25

You've bought 30L at £1 and spent £30


We both have empty tanks and you can't put 30L in your tank at 85p because the price at the end of our both using 30L is not 85p, it's 90p!


Modified to add - Dean - you got your post in before me!


Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: gary999 on October 20, 2008, 07:39:15 pm
gor blimey you two still at it! ::) gonna send me ma round
to bang your heads together ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: sf on October 20, 2008, 08:52:24 pm
£1.09.9 in Aberdare
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: Neil Williams on October 20, 2008, 09:00:56 pm
Has anyone considered the difference in fuel economy between carrying a 'Full' tank of fuel around compared to just putting 20L in at a time.
So it's ok putting 60L in at todays price but you'll use more fuel (and therefore cost more) than the one putting less weight in fuel in. ;D
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: Neil Williams on October 20, 2008, 10:29:03 pm
oh, thats right, give 'em something else to bicker about ;D

Oh that's nothing.
What if one of them drives like a nutter around town all the time...stop...start...accelerate,,,,stop...start....accelerate
Whilst the other is careful in his approach to fuel economy
There, that opens up a BA Hons standard of answering ;D
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: simon knight on October 21, 2008, 06:55:51 am
You've moved the goal posts Simon... 30L to my 15 instead of 60 to my 15 on the first fill; but anyway

Assuming we use fuel at the same rate -

Week one - I put in 15L you put in 30L at £1.00

At the end of week one I put in another 15L at 95p you don't cuz you've got 15 left.

At the end of week two we both have empty tanks (I've used my second 15L you've used up your original 30L)


I've bought 15L at £1 and 15L at 95p and spent £29.25

You've bought 30L at £1 and spent £30


We both have empty tanks and you can't put 30L in your tank at 85p because the price at the end of our both using 30L is not 85p, it's 90p!


Modified to add - Dean - you got your post in before me!




Malc

15 @ 100 = £15
15 @ 95 = £14.25
15 @ 90 = £13.50
15 @ 85 = £12.75

15 @ 80 = £12.00
15@ 75 = £11.25
15 @ 70 = £10.50
15 @ 65 = £9.75

Total spend = £99.00 for 120ltrs


Simon

60 @ 100 = £60
60 @ 65 = £39

Total spend = £99 for 120ltrs

We've both bought 120ltrs costing £99. You've made 8 trips to my 2. Sorry malc I jusy can't read it any other way.
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: William Tyndale on October 21, 2008, 07:34:27 am


Malc

15 @ 100 = £15         60 @ 100 = £60
15 @ 95 = £14.25
15 @ 90 = £13.50
15 @ 85 = £12.75

15 @ 80 = £12.00      60 @ 65 = £39     You buy for 80 not 65
15@ 75 = £11.25
15 @ 70 = £10.50
15 @ 65 = £9.75


Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: simon knight on October 21, 2008, 08:14:18 am


Malc

15 @ 100 = £15         60 @ 100 = £60
15 @ 95 = £14.25
15 @ 90 = £13.50
15 @ 85 = £12.75

15 @ 80 = £12.00      60 @ 65 = £39     You buy for 80 not 65
15@ 75 = £11.25
15 @ 70 = £10.50
15 @ 65 = £9.75



Ok: 60 @ 100 = £60
       60 @ 80 = £48

Total spend = £108 for 120 ltrs gives an average cost per ltr of 90p against Malc's average of 82.50p. OK at this point he's ahead.

BUT!

On week 9 I buy a further 60ltrs @ 60p making a total of 180 ltrs costing £144 giving an average cost per ltr of 80p

Malc goes in on week 9 and buys his 15ltrs @ 60 making a total of 135 ltrs costing £108 giving an average cost per ltr of 80p

Even again.
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: William Tyndale on October 21, 2008, 08:25:42 am
Tell your customers that your prices will drop £1.00 each month from January and then ask them if they would like to pay for the whole year at today's prices and see what they say.

Lets be gratefull your not running the economy!
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: AuRavelling79 on October 21, 2008, 01:33:44 pm


Malc

15 @ 100 = £15         60 @ 100 = £60
15 @ 95 = £14.25
15 @ 90 = £13.50
15 @ 85 = £12.75

15 @ 80 = £12.00      60 @ 65 = £39     You buy for 80 not 65
15@ 75 = £11.25
15 @ 70 = £10.50
15 @ 65 = £9.75



Ok: 60 @ 100 = £60
       60 @ 80 = £48

Total spend = £108 for 120 ltrs gives an average cost per ltr of 90p against Malc's average of 82.50p. OK at this point he's ahead.

BUT!

On week 9 I buy a further 60ltrs @ 60p making a total of 180 ltrs costing £144 giving an average cost per ltr of 80p

Malc goes in on week 9 and buys his 15ltrs @ 60 making a total of 135 ltrs costing £108 giving an average cost per ltr of 80p
Even again.

No because at week 9 I still have 45L worth of money (cuz I've not spent it) in my pocket and I keep buying 15 litres at a time out of that money over the next 3 weeks and because the price is dropping I have some money left.

You keep going beyond the "start point" which is when both our tanks are empty.
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: AuRavelling79 on October 21, 2008, 01:35:14 pm
Tell your customers that your prices will drop £1.00 each month from January and then ask them if they would like to pay for the whole year at today's prices and see what they say.

Lets be gratefull your not running the economy!

That is absolutely the best example William - I think the penny will drop now.
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: simon knight on October 21, 2008, 01:40:55 pm

Hi Malc,  OK have it your way. I've enjoyed all this but am now getting bored with the topic...enough already!
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: weetot on October 21, 2008, 08:55:07 pm
DIESEL=£1.12p yestersday 20.10.08 at sainsburys Whitley Bay. Tyne & wear.
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: gary999 on October 21, 2008, 09:07:47 pm
tescos by me petrol£97.9 diesel £1.09
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: jaykie on October 23, 2008, 12:39:44 pm
Sainsburys
Diesal £1.09
Unleaded £97.9
Title: Re: Diesel prices
Post by: windowwashers on October 23, 2008, 01:51:24 pm
shell 99.9, tesco less than a mile away 103.9 talk about holding out on prices