Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: martinsadie on October 14, 2008, 06:56:54 pm
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As i came down my ladder a woman stopped and said "can i ask you a silly question,are you a proper window cleaner", yes i replied "can you clean my windows please",i said you have a cleaner, she says "i sacked him a few months ago he had a brush on a stick and they were always streaky afterwards". well normally i wouldnt clean on anothers patch but since this fellow has told his customers ladders are illeagle i will be doing them since im a proper w/c, 6 of his other customers have asked my mate to clean thiers as well so he must be a bad one
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or is it that trad window cleaners leave a much better finish than wfp ers..??
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Fair play to you Stan. ;)
I got plenty of jobs of the wfp'ers around here for the same reasons when I was trad.
I still lose some myself to trad cleaners from time to time.
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Yes Stan it`s a case of "the wrong tool in the wrong hands",
weather you are a trad or a wfp window cleaner you ain`t necessarily going to do a good job with either method unless "you" are any good,
;)
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Yes Stan it`s a case of "the wrong tool in the wrong hands",
weather you are a trad or a wfp window cleaner you ain`t necessarily going to do a good job with either method unless "you" are any good,
;)
Exactly, a case of having no idea how to use his pole correctly :P
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All is ok until you fall off your ladder and break your leg! Seriously Stan, Yes the operator didn't know what he was doing but do we have to start this debate again? Everyone knows that WFP is the superior method ;)
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bull..... i use both and find trad much much better... and the custys prefere it
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the only people who say wfp is better are the people who cant clean a window properly, however wfp does have its uses
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its the same both ways i've picked up quite a bit work using wfp because we don't go on there gutters and roofs or damage window cills etc the list goes on.
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bull..... i use both and find trad much much better... and the custys prefere it
Tried hot wfp? Much better than cold wfp?
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tried hot coffee much better than cold coffee
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You just have to accept that some customers don't like WFP, just like some people don't like other things in life but fortunately if you look at the bigger picture you will see that enough do like it or couldn't actually care less.
I am in business to make money. End of story.
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AMEN
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It all boils down to being willing to try new things. In the construction trades a carpenter who refuses to use a pneumatic nail gun because he prefers the hammer is at a disadvantage. Now the nail gun can't be used in all situations but by not using it you loose revenue.
It's the same w/ wfp. On some jobs I can't use it, but when I can it always makes me more money and the results are better because I clean the frames as well. As professionals we learn to discern which method works on various situations. ;)
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Most of my customers dont bat an eyelid to which way it gets done, and most say, so longs as its clean i dont care.
The only people i do trad for is the oldies, i cant be bothered too, or explain to them how it works, as they just wont accept it (probably too set in their ways - however u may get some oldies that like and accept new technology). Most of them live in bungalows anyway, so im not bothered.
You will find that if you do it properly (wfp) it does give a better clean once dry, and it stays cleaner after it rains! (which i always tell my custies and i have seen the proof with my own windows), but many people dont want their cleaned windows left wet.
horses for courses as they say.
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tried hot coffee much better than cold coffee
i quite like the frapps they have in greece ,basically cold coffee with ice in
they have them here too :o ::)
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It all boils down to being willing to try new things. In the construction trades a carpenter who refuses to use a pneumatic nail gun because he prefers the hammer is at a disadvantage. Now the nail gun can't be used in all situations but by not using it you loose revenue.
It's the same w/ wfp. On some jobs I can't use it, but when I can it always makes me more money and the results are better because I clean the frames as well. As professionals we learn to discern which method works on various situations. ;)
tony is bang on there
do both ,you will not go far wrong
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All is ok until you fall off your ladder and break your leg! Seriously Stan, Yes the operator didn't know what he was doing but do we have to start this debate again? Everyone knows that WFP is the superior method ;)
women who spoke to me today doesnt think so ;D
Ah but when you fall off your ladder you wont be so cocky ;) Some accidents cant happen on the ground. Also you may think it's great but she wants to pay you same (at most) money that she would pay a wfper. The risks involved for you are far greater than mine. There is no chance in me falling 15ft and breaking my leg. Who is the fool? IMO you, why take the more risks for no reward? Dose not make sense to me.
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tried hot coffee much better than cold coffee
i quite like the frapps they have in greece ,basically cold coffee with ice in
they have them here too :o ::)
where ?
Haha ;D ;D ;D ;D That p*s*s*d on your bonfire ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Maybe this guy was just rubbish at his job or maybe she didn't like the windows being left wet.
I know some customer would prefer a finished job. IE dried
Some people im sure think that if you leave the windows wet you have not done the job properly.
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All is ok until you fall off your ladder and break your leg! Seriously Stan, Yes the operator didn't know what he was doing but do we have to start this debate again? Everyone knows that WFP is the superior method ;)
women who spoke to me today doesnt think so ;D
Ah but when you fall off your ladder you wont be so cocky ;) Some accidents cant happen on the ground. Also you may think it's great but she wants to pay you same (at most) money that she would pay a wfper. The risks involved for you are far greater than mine. There is no chance in me falling 15ft and breaking my leg. Who is the fool? IMO you, why take the more risks for no reward? Dose not make sense to me.
Many window cleaners who use ladders never have an incident. Its just about reducing risks.
I bet many wfp'er's here with systems dont even know if they had a full tank going 60mph down a road would be confident there tank will stay in place after an accident! Your more likely to die from that than you are from falling from a ladder.
Reduce the ricks reduce the chance. But it doesn't mean injuring yourself will never happen whatever system you use.
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tried hot coffee much better than cold coffee
i quite like the frapps they have in greece ,basically cold coffee with ice in
they have them here too :o ::)
where ?
Starbucks for starters.. no idea if anywhere else does it.
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WCE said -
when you fall off your ladder
Thats the strange thing about this forum i don't really understand.
Whenever someone say anything about using ladders there is always someone who say when you fall off your ladders blah blah blah.
Window cleaners have been using ladders since they were invented.
So what did everone do before WFP im sure they used ladders.
And did any other window cleaner say to you when you fall off your ladders No they didn't they didn't bat an eyelid.
Ladder are a part of our trade so find it weird in people saying these things.
Or maybe its the new breed of window cleaners who are to scared to get up a ladder as they have a magic pole.
They probably can only clean with a WFP anyway and have not got a clue how to clean traditional
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I bet many wfp'er's here with systems dont even know if they had a full tank going 60mph down a road would be confident there tank will stay in place after an accident! Your more likely to die from that than you are from falling from a ladder.
That's so true.
I've got far more chance of being squashed in my van (even without the tank, purely because I'm 2ft from the front of the vehicle!).
People pull out in front of me and overtake towards me all day long, but I never had a dodgy incident with a ladder in 10 years!
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WCE said -
when you fall off your ladder
Thats the strange thing about this forum i don't really understand.
Whenever someone say anything about using ladders there is always someone who say when you fall off your ladders blah blah blah.
Window cleaners have been using ladders since they were invented.
So what did everone do before WFP im sure they used ladders.
And did any other window cleaner say to you when you fall off your ladders No they didn't they didn't bat an eyelid.
Ladder are a part of our trade so find it weird in people saying these things.
Or maybe its the new breed of window cleaners who are to scared to get up a ladder as they have a magic pole.
They probably can only clean with a WFP anyway and have not got a clue how to clean traditional
You may be right, but i started on ladders and i prefer using them as part of the job, but sometimes most of my custies have conservatories or the like, and didn't want me to scale them, and i need to use the pole anyway, so i just use it for the whole property.
After a while you just get used to leaving the ladder on the van. but if i had problems with my wfp setup, i can just as easy do it the trad way.
I prefer wfp now, just because i can use it in the rain, and give a guarantee it will be clean after it rains, or i will re clean it. Im actually on top of my round atm, normally i would be behind with this drizzle.
Time to get canvassing for more custies :P
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the only people who say wfp is better are the people who cant clean a window properly, however wfp does have its uses
I can clean windows properly with WFP and take work from trad cleaners. I may possibly trip and fall over my hose and dent my pride but fall off a ladder and it's more than pride that hurts. BTW I also use ladders (for access only) so stick that in your pipe and smoke it. ;D
IMO wfp is better for two main reasons:
1. It's safer
2. it's quicker
Why would any good wfp operator want to risk their life for less pay....madness :o
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ive had an idea...............
lets all go to work on skateboards
use a leather and scrim
and only do bottom windows whilst wearing a viz vest and crash hat
..................... BE SAFE ....... BE SEEN.......................
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well stan! youve really started something here mate ;D
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I think there is too much wind up talk on here between WFP and ladder users.
I can do both well, so probably can most .
Today I had 3 trad cleaners watching me use WFP and they were asking about technique, the finish,and watching how WFP cleans all the frames etc,etc. Results were as good as theirs. No animosity just guys interested in seeing how this other system works.
Why the war of words? No one wants to hear of one of their fellow shiners getting hurt, maybe thats why some flag up the possibility of ladder use accidents.
Stan have you ever tried WFP,?I doubt it. Why not have a go, and then tell us what you think, until you do you can only speculate about how good or bad the job can be done, especially if WFP is used properly.
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Mate I think you are too far away from me, im in East Anglia, for me to show you, or let you have a go. I honestly think you would be so surprised with the results. Why not see if anyone else WFp on here is near you and have a quick meet up. If theyre leaving windows streaky thay aint doing it right, honestly,and deserve to loose customers.
Shame is this gives WFP a bad name, to some people, who will then tell all friends and neighbours that the system is rubbish. It isnt its the operator.
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Mate I think you are too far away from me, im in East Anglia, for me to show you, or let you have a go. I honestly think you would be so surprised with the results. Why not see if anyone else WFp on here is near you and have a quick meet up. If theyre leaving windows streaky thay aint doing it right, honestly,and deserve to loose customers.
Shame is this gives WFP a bad name, to some people, who will then tell all friends and neighbours that the system is rubbish. It isnt its the operator.
Very true, ive come up against this when canvassing.
I will actually offer to do 2 windows for free to show them its possible to get a good streak free clean window. or otherwise i will do them and return and pay them their money back if they can show me streaks. I explain to them its not the method its the operator. Eventually they see the light.
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Starbucks for starters.. no idea if anywhere else does it.
never been in starbucks been told a cup of coffee is dearer than a pint
amen, me and missus had a hot chocolate in their today and it was £5, its only a few mins work :) but i was thinking i could of had a stronger beverage in a different establishment for the same price! :)
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tried hot coffee much better than cold coffee
Tried warm beer !, or coke etc etc etc
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Starbucks for starters.. no idea if anywhere else does it.
never been in starbucks been told a cup of coffee is dearer than a pint
amen, me and missus had a hot chocolate in their today and it was £5, its only a few mins work :) but i was thinking i could of had a stronger beverage in a different establishment for the same price! :)
I know mr st ives doesn't like us getting off topic with coffee :P But i like to spend a Sunday morning in Starbucks enjoying a latte with the missus.
Coffee is better for you than a pint, and i dont drink much nowadays anyway (and its cheaper than a friday night in the pub :P ). Saving for more equipment, new van etc.
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About 6 month ago when I was trad somebody saw us cleaning in their street and asked us to clean theirs as they were unhappy with their WFP cleaner. I did so and picked up 6 other jobs.
Since Ive switched I was weary of switching theirs but I thought stuff it and went for it.
All are happier than they ever have been and remain on my books.
It appears that there is a massive difference between splash, dash and cash and PROPER WFP window cleaners. ;D ;D
Dean
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I think there is too much wind up talk on here between WFP and ladder users.
I can do both well, so probably can most .
Today I had 3 trad cleaners watching me use WFP and they were asking about technique, the finish,and watching how WFP cleans all the frames etc,etc. Results were as good as theirs. No animosity just guys interested in seeing how this other system works.
Why the war of words? No one wants to hear of one of their fellow shiners getting hurt, maybe thats why some flag up the possibility of ladder use accidents.
Stan have you ever tried WFP,?I doubt it. Why not have a go, and then tell us what you think, until you do you can only speculate about how good or bad the job can be done, especially if WFP is used properly.
What a nice post.
I picked up an account from a WFPer recently. I got a phone call asking if I could price a job and they said they already had a window-cleaner who was WFP. She said she wasnt happy with the standard of work he did. Anyway I explained that I am also WFP but I also generally say that sometimes it isnt the method of cleaning it can be down to the operator. To me thats fair, quite often it is, Im not that experienced WFP (been doing it 8 months) but I do know lack of thoroughness is probably the easiest way to do a less than satisfactory job. Anyway I went round and we chatted about the job andhow the other guy was leaving it. I said it seemed to me that the guy was using dirty water as the way she was explaining it seemed to point to that. I thought and said to her its likely he's using tap water; just filling his tank from his homes outside tap and using that. She said, 'Oh, yes, he uses the outside tap here' TDS here is 275.
I explained a little to her how WFP works. He's been sacked I have a new custy.
She has clean windows.
Matt
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no i havnt used it or ever seen it used,apart from the bed operater i have talked about and 1 other part time cleaner,no one round here uses it ,everyone trad.the part time guy is often seen with ladders on and no trailer,so who knows
Stan, it's just the opposite round Chepstow; just about every full time window cleaner there is has a WFP capability.
Even Matt and Ollie have just bought a backpack (Squeaks knows them).
It's taken two years for one of my customers to dump me (he was extremely anti-WFP) for a ladder-only-user, and I said, 'You were lucky to find someone on ladders around here", and he agreed. ;D
And this particular lad has just came back to the WC trade; but has a reputation for heavily using drugs.
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And this particular lad has just came back to the WC trade; but has a reputation for heavily using drugs.
He's not drugged up at work!
Just weekend nights.;D
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no i havnt used it or ever seen it used,apart from the bed operater i have talked about and 1 other part time cleaner,no one round here uses it ,everyone trad.the part time guy is often seen with ladders on and no trailer,so who knows
Stan, it's just the opposite round Chepstow; just about every full time window cleaner there is has a WFP capability.
Even Matt and Ollie have just bought a backpack (Squeaks knows them).
It's taken two years for one of my customers to dump me (he was extremely anti-WFP) for a ladder-only-user, and I said, 'You were lucky to find someone on ladders around here", and he agreed. ;D
And this particular lad has just came back to the WC trade; but has a reputation for heavily using drugs.
Probably uses the ladders to get in the windows that are left open to get his next fix.
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Why didn't anyone point out that the customer said they were streaky, now I'm not sure what she meant with that, because I don't think I have ever left behind streaks, spots and brush marks sure, but streaks? The only time customers said that to me, they were on the inside. They were convinced that they were on the outside, so I went over, dragged my finger over the glass, and said, see? It's on the inside, customer embarrassed of course.
It's always imperative that you get to the bottom of what the marks are on the glass, streaks, smears, spots? Other? Only then you can get a clear understanding of what the problem is and how it got there in the first place, I think that aspect of wfp takes the longest to understand, the pure analytical side of figuring out why a certain window didn't come up right, sure some are blantantly obvious, but some do take a bit of headscratching, and sometimes you just have to face the fact that wfp isn't suitable for it, and do tops only, that's definitely something that needs to be learned, and to keep an open mind about the tools that you use. Customer satisfaction is key, not the 'oh I can't be bothered to fill my bucket cuz wfp is twice as quick, even though I do leave spots on unsuitable windows'. Clean windows is the goal, and using any tool possible to get to that goal is allowed to a certain extend, keeping your own safety and others in mind.
It's really nothing different then traditional, it just requires more brainpower to figure out, that's why some traditional windows cleaners will never get it like somebody once said. It's got a lot to do with not being stuck in your ways, and have an open mind. Or of course, a lack of the aforementioned brain power. ( ;D )
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Why didn't anyone point out that the customer said they were streaky, now I'm not sure what she meant with that, because I don't think I have ever left behind streaks, spots and brush marks sure, but streaks?
Results from not cleaning the top rail thoroughly or not using pure water (ie tap water), you will get horrible streaks (runs from the top frame) only noticeable to us in a short period by the sun.
Of course it may have been inside, but we'll never know.
But i know from my customers if they were ever to complain, i would expect it to be inside, some are really bad - i think i should ask them if they want the inside doing too :P
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no i havnt used it or ever seen it used,apart from the bed operater i have talked about and 1 other part time cleaner,no one round here uses it ,everyone trad.the part time guy is often seen with ladders on and no trailer,so who knows
hi stan i think you said you do some work in burnley, i also do a few jobs there if you want to see the pole working and its results then drop me an email
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i clean trad and wfp and ide say water fed does a miles better job
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Stan,
I've got many jobs that established trad users would've stayed clear from; awkward stuff from ladders or leaded jobs.
With the pole, I found these have turned into some of my best accounts.
For example, we have a small real-leaded windowed hotel and it used to take two of us two-hours of tough work to handbash the lot. I was given this job because the previous window cleaner didn't like it.
I can now do it bymyself with a WFP about an-hour-and-a-half and the results, although rarely perfect, are far superior than what you could achieve by handbashing.
For a small outlay, you could really make a killing in your area; I reckon; just by targetting those properties that other window cleaners avoid.
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Starbucks for starters.. no idea if anywhere else does it.
never been in starbucks been told a cup of coffee is dearer than a pint
amen, me and missus had a hot chocolate in their today and it was £5, its only a few mins work :) but i was thinking i could of had a stronger beverage in a different establishment for the same price! :)
I know mr st ives doesn't like us getting off topic with coffee :P But i like to spend a Sunday morning in Starbucks enjoying a latte with the missus.
Coffee is better for you than a pint, and i dont drink much nowadays anyway (and its cheaper than a friday night in the pub :P ). Saving for more equipment, new van etc.
Ive been slowing down the beer drinking last few weeks, its surprising how much money youwaste if you drink often...
sorry its off topic :)
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It appears that there is a massive difference between splash, dash and cash and PROPER WFP window cleaners. ;D ;D
Dean
That's to funny Dean. Gotta remember that one! SDC WFP OMG ;D