Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: lovewindows on October 13, 2008, 10:45:31 pm
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want them both , whats the way to get them at the best price
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want them both , whats the way to get them at the best price
Buy them both from gardiners, ask for discount on delivery :P
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If you want the professional kit then www.omni-guttervac.com
I dont believe their is much difference in the cost.
The difference is our system uses 51mm ultralite abrasion resistant hose and long lasting ( many years) 50mm Aloy tubes designed to take the rigiuors of gravel, broken roof tiles and far less chance of debris blocking the tubes or hose.
Our first systems used 38mm hose and tubes but the downtime unblocking the hose tubes and inlets was a real pain and time is money so we upgraded to 51mm some time ago. We supply five different heads specifically designed to tackle commercial and domestic gutters.
A lot of the DIY system operators remove the internal inlet angle to stop it clogging but this is not realy ther answer as this weakens the vortex action of the vac giving less suction.
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Few hundred pounds difference or over a thousand if you want their own camera system. Not much difference really. If you are going purely commercial then buy the Omnivac. If you dont have the funds or the customers then diy.
Omnivac will always be better but not much. Bit like diy wfp versus an Ionics ready made system.
Omnivac will have everything you need - you won't need to bodge or source your own bits. But that's half the fun. :)
There's no cheap way of buying S2 poles - unless you are related to Alex but there are cheap vacs about or even second hand. Hardly any parts to find that couldn't be done yourself.
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As Glyn stated the Omnivac does use the
51mm ultralite abrasion resistant hose and long lasting ( many years) 50mm Aloy tubes designed to take the rigiuors of gravel, broken roof tiles and far less chance of debris blocking the tubes or hose.
and it comes with 5 attachments but if you are already in the market for an SL2 then there is quite a saving in using the SL2 base sections compared with buying an SL2 and a seperate gutter vac system.
As for the loss in suction by removing the internal inlet it can be no less than the loss with a Omnivac System as in both Omnivacs I've seen it too has been removed.
As you will be adding your own hose then you can use the same type as on the Omnivac if you want, or you can use cheaper or more expensive hose.
Yes the Omnivac is stronger but it is also a lot heavier and not for oneman above 35ft.
So if money is tight you can make a saving with the SL2 - Gutter Sucker combo.
If your a oneman outfit and need to go up high then the SL2 will be lighter.
If you want a professional bit of kit you can use straight out of the box then the Omnivac is better.
Regards
Mr H
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MrH Wrote
As for the loss in suction by removing the internal inlet it can be no less than the loss with a Omnivac System as in both Omnivacs I've seen it too has been removed.
Our unit has an angled steel inlet which aids in promotion of the vortex.
Please tell me how much the cost of a DIY system is ? By the time you have purchassed the SL2, Vac, 15 metres of hose and sourced parts to make attachements. Is their actually any saving at all?
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38mm to 51mm inlet? simple change the inlet size and use some tin snips to make the hole bigger in order to attach it.
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[ if you are already in the market for an SL2 then there is quite a saving in using the SL2 base sections compared with buying an SL2 and a seperate gutter vac system.
So if money is tight you can make a saving with the SL2 - Gutter Sucker combo.
So That right Glynn ? and how much of a saving ?
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[ if you are already in the market for an SL2 then there is quite a saving in using the SL2 base sections compared with buying an SL2 and a seperate gutter vac system.
So if money is tight you can make a saving with the SL2 - Gutter Sucker combo.
So That right Glynn ? and how much of a saving ?
that was Mr H
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38mm to 51mm inlet? simple change the inlet size and use some tin snips to make the hole bigger in order to attach it.
Attach what ? Are you saying you stick the hose into a razor sharp hole?
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No.. ::) Contact a vacuum suppliers like www.morclean.co.uk and ask for a inlet section to replace the 38mm for a 51mm inlet section.
(inlet section in this sense is the plastic housing you insert the hose into)
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Ok not identical but i wasn't trying to build the Omnivac but a system that works along the same lines.
Triple 1200w vac
Three S2 sections (i already have two) this gives me a 60' S2 with my original S2.
52mm top hose( that i haven't used)
Connectors to make the loop
Tools that come with the vac
Seven metres of Hose
CCTV camera and monitor already had battery power.
Towbar fitted by me
Electrics for towbar wired by proffessional
Pipe for making different nozzles
30m of Arctic cable
Slash proof connectors
Rcd plug
Total price WITH vat and delivery £1100 - could be cheaper if you sourced everything for yourself.
Basic Omnivac system £1090 plus vat plus delivery, no camera no towbar
Omnivac camera system (much more advanced than mine) £800+
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Like i said, if i had the customers ready and waiting and knew i could tap straight into the commercial market then i would buy Glyns omnivac system - top of the range bells and all. However, i don't a) have much spare cash or use credit and b) have a ready made market of customers so i've got to start somewhere.
I did the same thing with wfp - built my own and started with fishing poles, then as i made money i reinvested in the best carbon poles i could buy. Who knows, if i make money on this then i might be knocking on Glens door for an upgrade.
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Could have bought an omnivac without the cam and did that urself :P
Yeah i know its more fun DIY, but sometimes an off the shelf product is better in the long run.
But i dont want to pay out for something off the shelf until i have the clients to do it. Im after a new van and in turn tank size cos my one wont be big enough in the future, and that is my main service, i dont just want to be gutter cleaning. Im first and foremost a window cleaner, the other services are add ons which i dont enjoy doing as much as windows, but i role with the times, and provide them as an additional service.
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38mm to 51mm inlet? simple change the inlet size and use some tin snips to make the hole bigger in order to attach it.
No good doing that as the SL2 is around the 38mm size anyway.
Prices....... To make JUST a 24ft diy Gutter Vac (similar height to basic Omnipole) you need
Vac £458
5 SL2 base sections = £295
16M of hose, length of threaded rod and 2 clamps = £100
Total = £853 + vat
Omnipole 24ft = £1090 + vat
So a saving of £237 + vat = £278.47 saved
If you are buying an SL2, PLUS you want a gutter vac then the price comes down depending on the SL2 you buy. If you buy a 60ft SL2 then you will already have 3 base sections so the price for makeing a 24ft DIY system is then only £676 + vat so a saving of £414+ vat = £486.45 inc compared to buying a 60ft SL2 AND an Omnivac system.
60ft SL2 + 24ft DIY gutter vac = £1326 + vat = £1558.05
60ft SL2 + 24ft Omnivac system = £1740 + vat = £2044.50
Lovewindows didn't say what height he wants to gutter vac up to so can't give more precise prices on the DIY system. He wanted to know the best price for getting an SL2 AND a gutter vac system.
If you don't need an SL2, or you don't need to use a guttervac at height above 35ft on your own and you can afford the extra cost then go for the Omnivac system. Its a good strong system with plenty of backup and attachments off the shelf.
As stated earlier, comparing the 2 is like comparing a ready made WFP system with a DIY system. both have good points and both have not so good points.....
You make your choice and pay your money.
Regards
Mr H
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Mr H
So a saving of £237 + vat = £278.47 saved
But who you going to call if a motor fails, pole breaks or any other warranty claim?
Who is on the other end of the telephone Mon- Fri 8.30 to give advice on pricing or how to do the work?
How much time will you loose unblocking 38mm hose and poles?
And how much are the five accesory tools worth?
I figure surely that must be worth just over £200.00 or as many claim a few hours widow cleaning pay ;D
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glyn
r u now selling carbon poles with yr vac system or am i getting my wires mixed ???
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Mr H
So a saving of £237 + vat = £278.47 saved
But who you going to call if a motor fails, pole breaks or any other warranty claim?
Who is on the other end of the telephone Mon- Fri 8.30 to give advice on pricing or how to do the work?
How much time will you loose unblocking 38mm hose and poles?
And how much are the five accesory tools worth?
I figure surely that must be worth just over £200.00 or as many claim a few hours widow cleaning pay ;D
I will back that up completely - I have been stuck on a commercial job or two because of custom guttering features which call for different tools. I have phoned Glyn / Omnipole and the new tool is there the very next day - Saving a fortune on cherry pickers etc etc. Also I have no doubt the Omnivac tubing will outlast the SL2 Sections
I cant believe people are going to all this hassle for a few hundred quid :o
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Mr H
So a saving of £237 + vat = £278.47 saved
But who you going to call if a motor fails, pole breaks or any other warranty claim?
Who is on the other end of the telephone Mon- Fri 8.30 to give advice on pricing or how to do the work?
How much time will you loose unblocking 38mm hose and poles?
And how much are the five accesory tools worth?
I figure surely that must be worth just over £200.00 or as many claim a few hours widow cleaning pay ;D
If the motor fails during warranty you call the vac supplier.
If the pole breaks you call the pole supplier and order another one and learn to be more careful next time.
Not had a problem with the 38mm blocking and as for
I figure surely that must be worth just over £200.00
Your selling them so your bound to say that aren't you..... lol :D
The vac comes with attachments that are similar to the ones you get with the Omnivac.
Yes thats what the extra money is for and well worth it if you have it. But some starting out don't have it or they need to go higher than 24ft and want to save even more or are a oneman outfit and need a lighter system.
Regards
Mr H
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:) a few hundred quid means a lot to some of us!
Don't forget Kev, you are a big fish for Glyn, good advertising, pictures on the site etc.
I wouldn't think Glyn would knock up a tool overnight for every vac owner. ;D
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38mm to 51mm inlet? simple change the inlet size and use some tin snips to make the hole bigger in order to attach it.
No good doing that as the SL2 is around the 38mm size anyway.
Yes, i know, i was just stating it was easy to go from a 38 to 51 mm inlet.
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:) a few hundred quid means a lot to some of us!
Don't forget Kev, you are a big fish for Glyn, good advertising, pictures on the site etc.
I wouldn't think Glyn would knock up a tool overnight for every vac owner. ;D
I think Im a small customer for Glyn. I have only bought one machine from him. I thought about buying another but its so efficient you would need a massive building to need two or more. Maybe as I expand then another will be necessary but for now ones great. I find the most efficient way to use it even at lower heights is two men and one machine. Not because of weight but because of logistics etc etc.
Glyn / Andrea etc, at Omnipole are fantastic, their customer service is excellent. You have to remember its still newish technology and they are interested in customer feedback as it only improves their product. From day one to now they have been great.
Im sure if you asked Glyn for a tool he would help as much as he could - I always have found he has always had something on the drawing board anyway as his cleaning firm use it and of course they have come across the same problems.
So for me this type of service is invaluable ;)
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Glyn H or Kev R
What's the omnipole dimensions for use with gutter vac? Is that 50 ish mm? Are there base only sections like the sl2? Looking at the omnipole on the web the other week, it look tapered ???
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One advantage with the hefty power pole would be that you could thrash it about a bit with the spike fitted i would imagine. Probably couldn't do that with the S2.
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Glyn H or Kev R
What's the omnipole dimensions for use with gutter vac? Is that 50 ish mm? Are there base only sections like the sl2? Looking at the omnipole on the web the other week, it look tapered ???
The sections are 50 mm. Its not tapered. You basically get two sets of tubes. One slightly smaller than the other. The smaller slides inside the larger. Then you slide a larger tube over the smaller and so on until you reach the required height. This also gives you a telescopic advantage on each two sections. So you can set the correct height exactly to the gutter. This is not possible on the SL2 as the sections are fixed.
Also there are no numbered sections as the larger sections have clips on and the smaller ones don't so assembly is very quick and easy.
Hope that makes sense ;D
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Glyn H or Kev R
What's the omnipole dimensions for use with gutter vac? Is that 50 ish mm? Are there base only sections like the sl2? Looking at the omnipole on the web the other week, it look tapered ???
The sections are 50 mm. Its not tapered. You basically get two sets of tubes. One slightly smaller than the other. The smaller slides inside the larger. Then you slide a larger tube over the smaller and so on until you reach the required height. This also gives you a telescopic advantage on each two sections. So you can set the correct height exactly to the gutter. This is not possible on the SL2 as the sections are fixed.
Also there are no numbered sections as the larger sections have clips on and the smaller ones don't so assembly is very quick and easy.
Hope that makes sense ;D
Id like to see a better picture on the website to explain this fact. It was the main reason why i was put off the omnipole, as i thought it was tapered - the pictures are not clear, it does look tapered.
So the smallest section is 50mm i presume?
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One advantage with the hefty power pole would be that you could thrash it about a bit with the spike fitted i would imagine. Probably couldn't do that with the S2.
The power pole is no longer used to hold the vacuum tubing (I do wish Glyn would remove those pictures as its the old system).
Th power pole is used as a multi tool. It can be used for a spike, as a high level pressure washing lance, holds the camera etc etc. I own three!!!!
They are too heavy for daily wfp in my opinion but they cannot be beaten when used with a spike or as a pressure lance for flushing etc etc - solid and well built. You can literally hang on it when trying to force weeds, plants etc from gutters.
Trust me to complete overgrown commercial guttering jobs and the odd domestic the spike is a necessity. I tried the cheap glass fibre / carbon fibre approach but after breaking several I spent my cash. I haven't managed to break a power pole yet though.
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One small drawback i can see is that everything is what 51mm? Yet many gutters won't take a nozzle that big so the advantage is lost?
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Kev
have omnipole started producing carbon poles over a certain length as there was some sort of mention of it on one of there sites today
thanks...frank
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One advantage with the hefty power pole would be that you could thrash it about a bit with the spike fitted i would imagine. Probably couldn't do that with the S2.
The power pole is no longer used to hold the vacuum tubing (I do wish Glyn would remove those pictures as its the old system).
Sorry i actually mean the omni wfp modular, that still looks tapered. A close up of the pole for use with the vac, showing the fixings would be beneficial at least.
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For those that want c/f the emporium extensions are one of the largest dia on the market at 45mm at the top of the taper. Larger dia means more suck.
The large bore Omni alu is parallel sided and I prefer its robustness over the c/f sections , there is just something "extra" about the alu tubing - I was using the f16 sections 2 years ago
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Kev
have omnipole started producing carbon poles over a certain length as there was some sort of mention of it on one of there sites today
thanks...frank
Don't know Frank
You would have to ask Glyn ;)
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One small drawback i can see is that everything is what 51mm? Yet many gutters won't take a nozzle that big so the advantage is lost?
In some commercial gutters I wish I had 200 mm let alone 51 mm. Also the 51 mm bore hardly ever blocks. So far I have only blocked it with a whole wet tee shirt and a bouncy ball. Both got stuck at the entry to the machine. The 38 mm is a bit wee for my liking. Omnipole original tubing was 38 mm and they increased it because of constant blockages and the downtime while unblocking it.
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Looking for a generator and have found Loncin LC5000 5kva on ebay for £379 brand new
How come Glyns selling them for £660 plus vat? Am i looking at something different?
Chinese apparently.
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Its fairly obvious you cannot afford our equipment from your posts :)
What you should be asking is can your customers afford your prices or are they constntly looking for someone to clean their windows cheeper ;D
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Don't get funny Glyn, i'm just asking questions, this isn't an Omnivac forum remember, i'm discussing this with everyone. I can't see any sense in throwing money away thats all.
I could easily afford the top of the range wfp outfit but choose not to. I could easily afford your best system but choose not to because it makes poor business sense to chuck my money away. If that Generator is the same then why would i want to stuff a couple of hundred notes in YOUR pocket? Better off in mine don't you think?
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I found this on another forum, Its from the very respected Jeff Brimble who now owns an Omnivac, I found it very interesting. See for yourselves
Quote -
This pic is after 90 minutes of horizontal vacuuming sharp grit and gravel to asses the damage caused, after 60 minutes the tube became "flexible" and after 90 minutes as thin as card and crushable. This was to asses the wear for using as a diy guttervac.
End Quote
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Looking for a generator and have found Loncin LC5000 5kva on ebay for £379 brand new
How come Glyns selling them for £660 plus vat? Am i looking at something different?
Chinese apparently.
Have you got a link?
A friend of mine recently bought a "quality make" pressure washer from ebay / china. It was fitted with all the wrong fittings so my friend had them all replaced with the correct threads etc. ~Within a few days it suffered a fatal high pressure "blowout" which has made it unusable or repairable - he did not get his money back :-[
Not saying anything really apart form be careful as ebay isn't all its cracked up to be sometimes.
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Don't get funny Glyn, i'm just asking questions, this isn't an Omnivac forum remember, i'm discussing this with everyone. I can't see any sense in throwing money away thats all.
I could easily afford the top of the range wfp outfit but choose not to. I could easily afford your best system but choose not to because it makes poor business sense to chuck my money away. If that Generator is the same then why would i want to stuff a couple of hundred notes in YOUR pocket? Better off in mine don't you think?
ftp
have a look on just generators site sdmo is a good make or any of the others which have honda engines;don,t know about loncin is it honda powered?
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Loncin is chinese i'm pretty sure. I've been to my local supplier and anything with a genuine Honda engine doubles in price. Stephill seem to be the best value Honda engined generators but still quite pricey. I was offered a Suntom (honda engine the guy said) but they are Chinese and less than four hundred. I know Kev runs a Loncin so i thought i would look for one. I was suprised to find Omnivac use them too. Maybe they are ok i don't know.
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There you go, same people as on ebay
www.pump.co.uk/shop/Generators/PetrolSilent/d24/sd77
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Looking for a generator and have found Loncin LC5000 5kva on ebay for £379 brand new
How come Glyns selling them for £660 plus vat? Am i looking at something different?
Chinese apparently.
Have you got a link?
A friend of mine recently bought a "quality make" pressure washer from ebay / china. It was fitted with all the wrong fittings so my friend had them all replaced with the correct threads etc. ~Within a few days it suffered a fatal high pressure "blowout" which has made it unusable or repairable - he did not get his money back :-[
Not saying anything really apart form be careful as ebay isn't all its cracked up to be sometimes.
Kev, unfortunately yours is Chinese!
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Kev, unfortunately yours is Chinese!
I know it is but it came from a reputable supplier in the UK not "located in china" as my friends did.
If they have a trading address / telephone number then good stuff, pay for it with your plastic then your covered!
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We supply Kubota, Isuzu, Honda,Lombardini, Yanmar
and LONCIN Engines
Lonchin export £10,000,000 of engines to the west and are one of the Worlds most respected engine manufacturers.
We supply Loncin engines which are teamed with UK made Markon Alternators to produce a top quality generator .
Loncin produce in excess of 500,000 engines a year.
We also sell the full range of Stephill generators
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Its all about the package ;)
I bought all my kit from Omnipole as it was easy, recommended, covered in the event that there is ever a problem I know Glyn would sort it.
FTP what did you think about the carbon wear bit in my earlier post ? is it a concern? Catastrophic pole failure could be painful, will a possible pole failure need to be included in a risk assessment? or your working practices?
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Its all about the package ;)
I bought all my kit from Omnipole as it was easy, recommended, covered in the event that there is ever a problem I know Glyn would sort it.
FTP what did you think about the carbon wear bit in my earlier post ? is it a concern? Catastrophic pole failure could be painful, will a possible pole failure need to be included in a risk assessment? or your working practices?
Which is why im considering an omnipole when i get my arse into gear on this gutter thing. But i want to see some nice close up pics of it, cos the ones ive seen dont look at all for use with a gutter vac, and they also look tapered.
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Even Jeff who did that test will tell you that the test was flawed because:-
Firstly the pole used was NOT a wfp pole but from a fishing pole and the pole was kept on its side all through the test so it greatly exagerated the wear and although you do get grit a sand in a gutter your more likely to be sucking up soil and leaves.
So yes the DIY gutter vac would wear out relativy quickly if you wanted to vacuum up the local beach constantly for a few days.
In reality mine has so far lasted over 6months with NONE of the base sections showing wear from being used for gutters and window use. I have not yet taken the top section off for inspection but might just do so to see what wear is owing as that piece will get the full force of everything that goes through the pipe.
Regards
Mr H
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Its all about the package ;)
I bought all my kit from Omnipole as it was easy, recommended, covered in the event that there is ever a problem I know Glyn would sort it.
FTP what did you think about the carbon wear bit in my earlier post ? is it a concern? Catastrophic pole failure could be painful, will a possible pole failure need to be included in a risk assessment? or your working practices?
Is it a concern? Good question i don't know - when i've been doing it a while i might be able to tell you. i doubt all gutters are full of sharp sand and gravel alone and i would doubt Jeff used an S2 pole. Catastrophic pole failure? Unlikely i would think. I have broken fishing poles before without a catastrophy.
Nothing wrong with Omnipoles products although i have never seen them in the flesh. I'm not saying my set up is any better i'm not in a position to compare. All i'm saying is if you want to suck dirt out of a gutter there are cheaper ways of doing it using similar parts and much cheaper using some identical parts.
I have Gardiners equipment and rate them highly and i could source several parts cheaper too but we are only talking a few pounds here and there not hundreds.
Also i'm looking at a different market to you - i doubt if i will have 5% commercial it's more likely i will go for the domestic market.
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We supply Kubota, Isuzu, Honda,Lombardini, Yanmar
and LONCIN Engines
Lonchin export £10,000,000 of engines to the west and are one of the Worlds most respected engine manufacturers.
We supply Loncin engines which are teamed with UK made Markon Alternators to produce a top quality generator .
Loncin produce in excess of 500,000 engines a year.
We also sell the full range of Stephill generators
Thanks Glyn so although Chinese you obviously feel the Loncin is a good Generator? I might buy one tomorrow. :) For £379 plus a massive £12 delivery charge.
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One quick question for those using the SL2 sections
Can you use the pole to push the tool tip into the edge of the muck with enough force to lift it / break it / suck it with out damaging the pole or knocking the tool off? So I am talking adding force to the side of the pole?
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Hey! i could buy a 35'powerpole too just for those heavy jobs with the money i've saved not buying the generator and the camera from you know where.
Maybe i'll wait for the 45' slx to come out and have that instead. :P
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Why don't we get back to the thread topic......
All these questions have been asked and answered before and people seem to think they need to keep justifying the system they prefer.
The title was:- guttervac & sl2
Question was:- want them both , whats the way to get them at the best price
Answer is:- Depends on which gutter vac system you want and what height of SL2 you need...... Cheapest price for an SL2 is Gardiners. Cheapest gutter vac is DIY.
Regards
Mr H
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Why don't we get back to the thread topic......
All these questions have been asked and answered before and people seem to think they need to keep justifying the system they prefer.
The title was:- guttervac & sl2
Question was:- want them both , whats the way to get them at the best price
Answer is:- Depends on which gutter vac system you want and what height of SL2 you need...... Cheapest price for an SL2 is Gardiners. Cheapest gutter vac is DIY.
Regards
Mr H
Thats the ONLY choice as only Gardiners make the SL2 and the vac that NOTE is the same as the one omnivac use - yes you spotted it not another one but the one Omnivac use and it is commercially available in several places in its standard format.
I would be more impressed if the DIY members had not blatantly copied the best selling gutter vac. How about the DIY ers making one from something else? bet it goes quiet now - not so bright when there is nothing to rip off are we !!!! Why did you decide on 3 X 1200 watt motors - extensive testing? no because Omnipole had done all that for you!!!!! Have you tested the SL2 properly, I think not, but hey who cares, its not your problem and Alex makes a profit so he starts selling the machines too, but not for the purposes of guttervac of course, to much to risk if a pole fails eh Alex?
I hope you manage to make something from scratch (albeit from a list of available bits) and some one copies your hard worked design and to save a measily £300. You should be ashamed its hardly honest is it but what the hell do you care? Its like copying the kid in the next seat at school. I was raised to have respect and pay for the things others make - I bet you lot steal music from the internet to to save a few quid too.
In fact I will go further - To make one for yourself as a challenge or to save yourself a few quid MR H I could understand but to give the design brief to everyone else on the internet to big it up for yourself is wrong.
I thought you were a decent chap with honour but you have proved me wrong!!!!
This isn't really my fight but I hope my standing up for what I believe will show my kids a decent way of life and not how to steal - intellectually or otherwise.
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Kev, calm down. I don't understand you. You come on here giving great advice to all of us even when you know we are putting together our own vacs - you give advice to your competitors too. No one has knocked the Omnivac. The problem is because it's not unique, because 90% of the parts are available in other areas and other applications that it is so easily copied. Whoever invented the idea must have known how simple it would be to make it out of similar components. It's the same as making a trolley system with your own sack trucks, the same as using a decorators pole instead of £400 worth of carbon The same as building your own ro system. Please get your head out of the omni backside and stick to giving great advice, you help loads of us on here and have sparked many into action. Glyn will always have plenty of customers wanting the complete package straight out of the box.
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Kev, calm down. I don't understand you. You come on here giving great advice to all of us even when you know we are putting together our own vacs - you give advice to your competitors too. No one has knocked the Omnivac. The problem is because it's not unique, because 90% of the parts are available in other areas and other applications that it is so easily copied. Whoever invented the idea must have known how simple it would be to make it out of similar components. It's the same as making a trolley system with your own sack trucks, the same as using a decorators pole instead of £400 worth of carbon The same as building your own ro system. Please get your head out of the omni backside and stick to giving great advice, you help loads of us on here and have sparked many into action. Glyn will always have plenty of customers wanting the complete package straight out of the box.
FTP,
I would have every respect if MR H and Alex G had done some testing of their own. I would be very interested in the results.
What has offended me Is Glyn has given me loads of time and because of that alone I have made a lot of money. I have just taken a large contract form a company in Hampshire who have a guttervac but cant use it. Why cant they use it? well its a big learning curve.
Glyn comes on here giving help and advice for free - and I likewise have done the same for nothing to help others find the best way to do things. Trust me I have learnt the hard way.
Mr H pops up with a ripped off design - gives no further help or advice - does not look at the consequences of employees using the SL2 (which is not designed for purpose) and then Alex starts selling the "wet dry vac" as a wet dry vac only at the very same time as MR H releases details of how to rip off the omnivac Ha Ha Ha - because he knows he cant sell the SL2 sections as a guttervac poles.
I have a lot of respect for Alex and his products but this smells a little off to me? Am I really the only one that thinks like this?
FTP would you have built one if MR H had not so kindly told you how to do it and where to source the bits?
Smelly its true :-[
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you give advice to your competitors too.
Why - well it keeps the prices up - if not idiots will start doing commercial jobs for £50 and give the rest of us a bad name when they fail - just like as it is with wfp ;)
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The whole point of us spending thousands of pounds to protect our INVENTION was to prevent people stealing it.
Mr H posted how to make the DIY guttervac using photographs of parts that he got from the Wadeson's.
The Wadesons bought that part from us (as a replacement) and then passed it on for MR H to copy.
So its not as if even that one small part was original DIY it was our part!
How is it that no one has copied Ionics version? Or started selling componant parts like a petrol leaf sweeper and clear plastic tubes.
Thats Not difficult to answer they dont want to be sued
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Would i have used S2 sections?To be honest probably not. Alex isn't daft he's not going to build a copy and sell it all put together. He's not going to tell you to use his poles as a vac tube either. However i would have looked all over the net to source as many parts as i could first before spending on the real thing. i used £60 fishing poles instead of paying over the top prices for "proper" poles and was pretty annoyed when i spent in exess of £600 for a S1 which was a Maver fishing pole that could be bought for £270 at the time. You said MrH was a respected friend of yours please keep it that way ( he hasn't said don't buy an Omnivac). I've probably stirred up more trouble by charting my experiences and searching prices - i'm sorry it wasn't intended like that, i had no knowledge and was asking and learning all the time.
I won't continue with this anymore.
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Would i have used S2 sections?To be honest probably not. Alex isn't daft he's not going to build a copy and sell it all put together. He's not going to tell you to use his poles as a vac tube either. However i would have looked all over the net to source as many parts as i could first before spending on the real thing. i used £60 fishing poles instead of paying over the top prices for "proper" poles and was pretty annoyed when i spent in exess of £600 for a S1 which was a Maver fishing pole that could be bought for £270 at the time. You said MrH was a respected friend of yours please keep it that way ( he hasn't said don't buy an Omnivac). I've probably stirred up more trouble by charting my experiences and searching prices - i'm sorry it wasn't intended like that, i had no knowledge and was asking and learning all the time.
I won't continue with this anymore.
Its fine for you to try and build a guttervac for yourself and use it yourself - no one would object to that. Just as Alex lets us use his protectaballs for ourselves but it would be a different story if we tried to sell them.
Mr H has made a copy of Omnivacs machine - released the details to everyone. He has worked with Alex G who now sells the componants but not as a guttervac - he's a supplier that should know better IMO.
Its one thing to knock something up in you garage but another to sell it openly or otherwise :-[
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Would i have used S2 sections?To be honest probably not. Alex isn't daft he's not going to build a copy and sell it all put together. He's not going to tell you to use his poles as a vac tube either.
My points exactly
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The whole point of us spending thousands of pounds to protect our INVENTION was to prevent people stealing it.
Mr H posted how to make the DIY guttervac using photographs of parts that he got from the Wadeson's.
The Wadesons bought that part from us (as a replacement) and then passed it on for MR H to copy.
So its not as if even that one small part was original DIY it was our part!
How is it that no one has copied Ionics version? Or started selling componant parts like a petrol leaf sweeper and clear plastic tubes.
Thats Not difficult to answer they dont want to be sued
Do we have to go through this again? Omnivac do not hold any license over a wet and dry vacuum! That in effect all it is. Omnivac have however gone into producing better tooling for use with the system.
All omni have done there is patent their designs for those parts. Similar designs can still be produced on the same theme. if you have patented the whole idea, please do provide us with the patent numbers and info so we can check..
Others have decided rather to shell out on a omnipole they can use the sl2 to the same effect. of course Alex wont sell it as a whole gutter vac product, because the SL2 is not designed for that, however it doesn;t mean he wont sell it to you if thats what you want it for, he is in business to make business. You can do this with any pole if its up to the job, we just know Alex from the forums so he can advise us about the product..
BTW i got my wet and dry vac from another supplier cheaper than both Alex and Omni.
There are always people that will show you how to make a diy version of a product using similar items. As people have said using fishing poles to make a water fed pole.
Regarding the Upkeeper, may i remind you its not Ionics invention... however being a suction machine it is a good idea, BUT its designed for an american market and is basically useless for residential properties in the UK, where many have complained about it, least of all not being good enough at the job at height.
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Omnivac do not hold any license over a wet and dry vacuum!
Thats true and we havent protected a wet and dry vac
We have protected guttervacs though ;D
if you have patented the whole idea, please do provide us with the patent numbers and info so we can check..
You word the above like a Police Officer questioning a suspect with regard to a criminal offence but with less flair.
As I am not considering selling my intellectual property to you, nor are you a business partner neither are you financing my ventures, I consider it impudence that you would expect me to answer your question.
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Omnivac do not hold any license over a wet and dry vacuum!
Thats true and we havent protected a wet and dry vac
We have protected guttervacs though ;D
if you have patented the whole idea, please do provide us with the patent numbers and info so we can check..
You word the above like a Police Officer questioning a suspect with regard to a criminal offence but with less flair.
As I am not considering selling my intellectual property to you, nor are you a business partner neither are you financing my ventures, I consider it impudence that you would expect me to answer your question.
You never answered it last time either ;) So basically we dont have any idea what you have patented, with regards to the "system"
anyway, so let me get this right, you have patented, gutter vacs full stop? No one else can design a gutter vac? or no one else can design one using a wet and dry vac? (with a commercial intent to supply that is not for personal use).
Anyway im not trying to get in a war with you, in fact ive got a lot of respect for you, as you have obviously helped a lot of members here, im just merely seeing how this works.
Its a pretty bold statement to make when you say a gutter vac was your invention, when its actually using a wet and dry vacuum - so what exactly have you invented? (apart from the toolings used with it, and modifications such as the improved inlet design)
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I don't know, but maybe, just maybe Glyns invented a method of fleecing gullable british windowcleaners of their hard earned cash by inflating prices of everyday components. Are you 100% sure it's your invention Glyn? I'm having doubts.
www.guttervac.co.nz/history.htm
www.guttervac.com.au/default.html
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I don't know, but maybe, just maybe Glyns invented a method of fleecing gullable british windowcleaners of their hard earned cash by inflating prices of everyday components.
www.guttervac.co.nz/history.htm
www.guttervac.com.au/default.html
After that comment you'll be hard pushed to get much advice :-[
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Also do you see anyone else openly selling a gutter vac system that works?
The Omnivac is tried and tested. Have you noticed all the guys that make money buy the Omnivac? Why? because apart form being a really good product it works - has the experience and the customer service and warrantees to back it up. Also you can let your employees use it as its designed for purpose and therefore covered by your insurance which a DIY machine is not. The HSE will have a field day when your pole wears and falls, seriously injuring someone. But hey you saved £300.
The words cheap and foolish spring to my mind - but hey there is no helping some people.
I have decided to no longer help or give advice with the Guttervac on this forum.
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I don't know, but maybe, just maybe Glyns invented a method of fleecing gullable british windowcleaners of their hard earned cash by inflating prices of everyday components. Are you 100% sure it's your invention Glyn? I'm having doubts.
www.guttervac.co.nz/history.htm
www.guttervac.com.au/default.html
i agree with kevin thats a stupid comment, nobody with a omnivac will help you now, so back to your garage to tinker with your bits and bobs.
thanks to you and people like you kevin has now chosen not to give advice about the gutter vac. even though i dont have his experiance with the vac, from now on i also wont be trying to help anybody on this site with gutter vac issues.
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You never answered it last time either. So basically we dont have any idea what you have patented, with regards to the "system"
Thats right because you are nobody to me. You are not a customer, you are not a freind, in fact I have never even met you.
You must think that I am an idiot.
Who would give out sensitive company information on a forum to people that are only looking to copy our invention.
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FTP
If you are going to add links at least check what they are.
Guttervac NZ and AU are a franchise for a company that sells the idea of standing on roofs to clean gutters.
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You never answered it last time either. So basically we dont have any idea what you have patented, with regards to the "system"
Thats right because you are nobody to me. You are not a customer, you are not a freind, in fact I have never even met you.
You must think that I am an idiot.
Who would give out sensitive company information on a forum to people that are only looking to copy our invention.
Wrong, i am actually considering buying the omnipole for use with the system, as i have doubts over the sl2 as we all know, and im still intrested as to how the pole is set up, but from the pictures ive seen, its looks tapered - which i have said before - personally i would appreciate some close up pictures of the gutter vacs pole. Is it one diameter the whole length through?
Keven has explained it, but i always prefer to see pictures.
However if it was to be a success, i WILL invest in a omnivac system.
So far all i have paid out is £200 for a 3000w wet and dry machine. Im no fool, im not paying 2-3 times that much (for a vac) from someone else when i can get it cheaper. I dont have £1000+ to shell out on a system i may not get much custom from, it really depends how it works and how i like using it. As ive said before, im only taking this route as a side service.
I currently dont do commercial work, so im purely in this for the domestic market. There is not as much money in there as there is as commercial, so money needs to be spent wisely.
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its like groundhog day in here again
last time it was DIY WFP V's " Off the shelf overpriced system "
i think people should start to send abuse to these DIY Guttervac guys ::) ::) ::)
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So far all i have paid out is £200 for a 3000w
For that price you will have bought a pile of rubbish. A cheap chinese machine with crap motors.
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I don't know, but maybe, just maybe Glyns invented a method of fleecing gullable british windowcleaners of their hard earned cash by inflating prices of everyday components.
Many of our customers earn the cost of a 24' Guttervac back in one days commercial work or two days domestic. Some charge £1600.00 for a day so how are we fleecing them?
You can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink
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Kevin R, I honestly hope when you calm down you will reconsider the above statement, as I for one have gained valuble knowledge and information from your many threads regarding "Guttervac". And hope that a "heated disagreement" with literally 1 or 2 members will not deprive hundreds of members access to your undoubted knowledge on what is a relatively new subject (though, I`m sure at this point some smart arse will now inform me cleaning gutters is not a new subject).
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So because of a few people who have upset you the rest with genuine questions have to suffer? Thats real nice kev. Next time you want advice on poles don't bother asking. It works both ways.
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So far all i have paid out is £200 for a 3000w
For that price you will have bought a pile of rubbish. A cheap chinese machine with crap motors.
what are YOU moaning about then? cos if it does well (the idea and i like doing it) then i WILL actually buy an Omnivac!!!!!
Its the diy guys that are bringing attention to the subject, regarding equipment required, such as generators, types of pole, whats required in the suction, what cables/fuses connections to use, tooling such as a gutter spike.
All these posts regarding DIY Guttervacs, have actually worked in Omnivacs favour, people can see how good the system in principle is, as few are trying a diy, MOST however will think thats too much work for me, but the idea is great and everyone's has or is likely to get one.
Where they going to get it? Yes thats right Omni!
Just because 3 or 4 people on this forum have decided to publically build a DIY version, to test the waters before thinking about buying one, you have to get the hump.
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as ive said before
this is just like the first DIY WFP discussions, the people who had paid for " off the shelf systems " AND the makers of the said systems rubbished the idea of DIY WFP, it would never work, of course the makers rubbished it, they had to, they make good money out of selling the stuff, the buyers of the stuff also had to rubbish it, afterall they had to try and justify why they had paid OTT for a system they could have built themselves in a weekend
its the same now with the Guttervac people, they will find the solution for everything and i hope they spread the word for every1 else to use
keep up the good work DIY'er guttervac'ers, Mr H has done it, done a guide for it , it does look simple to do
personally for high work i use my DIY'ed jet wash attachment and for domestic houses i just use my ladder for a climb in the mibble of the house, use my pole and scoop to push it along to either end and then climb ladder and to scoop out either end ;) the customer loves the hands on touch
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Why don't we get back to the thread topic......
All these questions have been asked and answered before and people seem to think they need to keep justifying the system they prefer.
The title was:- guttervac & sl2
Question was:- want them both , whats the way to get them at the best price
Answer is:- Depends on which gutter vac system you want and what height of SL2 you need...... Cheapest price for an SL2 is Gardiners. Cheapest gutter vac is DIY.
Regards
Mr H
Ok ,
Want an Omnivac 30ft, and a SL2 40ft, for separate jobs, Omnivac for gutters and high level internal cleaning [ jetted pref as i'm sure i could use this at some point ] .and an SL2 [ pos SLX ] as i might have a 4 story job comeing up [ fingers crossed ] and it appears thats THE pole to have and i like the idea of adding to the length if needed rather than buying another WFP
I'm not particulary handy with DIY but i'm sure i could rig a camera system up to the Omnivac as i think thats a great idea, but as for DIY vac i'd rather have something proffessional for a professional job.
So by buying them together can i save money ?
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No, they are from different suppliers.
Omnipole do the vac
Gardiners do the SL2 and SL-X (however if you buy these 2 together you may be able to save on postage and packing? )
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No, they are from different suppliers.
Omnipole do the vac
Gardiners do the SL2 and SL-X (however if you buy these 2 together you may be able to save on postage and packing? )
God your quick, i only nipped out for a fAg !
But thats what i wanted to know " thanks "
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The reason i posted a comment like that is because of frustrating answers from Glyn
What is the patent he has applied for - answer i'm not telling you.
Is there a patent on it? - No there isn't
Can i build my own? Of course i can.
If Glyn invented the whole thing then why does he not have a patent? Because it's just a friggin vacuum cleaner thats why! There is NOTHING to stop diyers making there own.
Thousands spent on research? what a load of pants! Lets try a small vacuum first ermmm no that's not very good. I know lets try a big one.
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The reason i posted a comment like that is because of frustrating answers from Glyn
What is the patent he has applied for - answer i'm not telling you.
Is there a patent on it? - No there isn't
Can i build my own? Of course i can.
If Glyn invented the whole thing then why does he not have a patent? Because it's just a friggin vacuum cleaner thats why! There is NOTHING to stop diyers making there own.
Thousands spent on research? what a load of pants! Lets try a small vacuum first ermmm no that's not very good. I know lets try a big one.
You are really showing yourself to be ignorant, Dyson and Hoover battled in court for millions of pounds over various infringements of patents on componants within vacumm cleaners. And of course all the manufacturers have patents on various aspects of their machines.
You obviously know absolutly nothing at all about patents or business in general.
Dont bother replying you will just dig a bigger hole.
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So why have you not gone for the people supplying the parts? The way i see it i shouldn't need to be arguing with you or Kev over this, it should have been sorted before everything was available.
What happens when the next person puts a post up of their diy efforts? The same all over again?
Are you telling us we are not allowed to build our own? Did you get irate over the trolley system too? That was before my time.
I shouldn't have to argue with a supplier on an open forum - i have done nothing wrong.
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So why have you not gone for the people supplying the parts? The way i see it i shouldn't need to be arguing with you or Kev over this, it should have been sorted before everything was available.
What happens when the next person puts a post up of their diy efforts? The same all over again?
OH YES
Are you telling us we are not allowed to build our own? Did you get irate over the trolley system too? That was before my time.
OH YES
I shouldn't have to argue with a supplier on an open forum - i have done nothing wrong.
OH NO
replies in RED, i feel like that churchill dog ;D ;D ;D
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LOL, this is like a circus :P
Anyway.. Its easy to see Glyn has gone and researched into various methods, and found industrial wet and dry vacuums the way to do it. He has obviously sourced a well made machine from a reputable supplier with warranties to match. Good stuff!
From what i can see, the main "inventions" are the tools and the little things that make it better than just a normal wet and dry vacuum, such as the gutter spike, the use of the pro pole to use as a suction pole, and the inlet (to the cylinder drum) to provide a vortex while still maintaining good flow into the cylinder. Im sure there are hundreds of extras added which we dont know about.
Im sure thousands (ten and perhaps even hundreds of) of pounds have gone into research and patents regarding the best use of tooling, and production of these. From this i can understand why there is a mark up on the other products such as a generator to make back from what has been shelled out in research, and patents on those other products, and why not your in business afterall.
Also by paying more you get sound advice from someone that has been there and done it, in effect in the start was itself a diy product! Just like all inventions and subsequent uses of products are.
Your also paying more to have back to base warranties, which in itself is worth alot to those that are running big businesses like Kevin, who want replacement machines asap if anything happens.
Ive got to say thank you to Kevin R for his insights into using his omnivac - If it wasn't for him, i probably wouldn;t have even thought of getting a gutter vac in the first place. As ive said before im trying a diy machine out, because i dont want to pay out for a machine i might not use all that often! If i do, and i enjoy using it, i will be in a position to phone Glyn or one of his fine friends at Omni, to purchase a vac system - and you know what, i would have more experience on how to use it because ive tried and tested my own.
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Sure thats pretty much what i said earlier on. ;)