Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Shaun_Ashmore on October 09, 2008, 08:47:55 pm
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What % of protector sales do you do?
15% on average for me, I'm looking to vastly improve on it in the coming months, I used to have a closure of about nearly 50% but as my cleaning prices have gone up the % has come down, probably I may be thinking that the customer has spent enough already which is the wrong way to do business.
What's yours?
Shaun
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average 3 jobs a week out of 15 (can't work out the % :-\ :-\ )
do you ask EVERY CUSTOMER if they would like it protecting?
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Not enough, do you ask on survey or after on the clean?
Shaun
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Tend to tell them price of the clean (Eg £100) 'then to protect it as well would be £135'
this is when I survey, but I don't give the protection price every time I seem to have a sixth sense to know if they will go for it because most who I offer it to do have it done.
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I must admit that 2nd sense has it's uses but I do simular but don't ask nearly enough, are you around tomorrow afternoon to give you a call?
Shaun
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got a job in the morning then free....I'm fitting in my new T/M :D :D my latest creation ;D a home-made, beast of a machine!
give us a call
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You're right. i know what you mean about 6th sense and yes I should ask more often. Often easier to sell to people with plain, light-coloured woollen carpets and who obviously look after their houses. Houses with young children are often a prompter for initiating the conversation.
Often mention it and the price when quoting and then suggest they can make their mind up once they have seen how well it has come up so that the clean helps sell the protector.
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I used to do a special offer of 'free protector' with every carpet or suite cleaned.
I used to get loads of people mentioning it (and wanting it) so this tells me there is a demand for protector its just if they are willing to pay the price of it.
EG; if it free everyone will want it but if its a £100 no one will want it.
so we need to find the figure between £0 & £100 which people will pay
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And Shaun do you "really" believe that the protector works ?.
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I am always reluctant to push protector, do your returning customers feel it works or do we loose repeat customers because they perceive it not to work?
Maybe the secrets to keep the price right down like Mike.
What percentage do most charge to clean & protect some add 50% is this taking the p#ss and damaging future custom ?
Would cleaners protect anything, i usually advise against unless new, nearly new or well looked after.
I think over selling protector can sometimes take CC into an ethically shady area.
Maybe most don't push protection as well as they should because they know it will be of minimum benefit to most clients.
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Yes if applied correctly, I recently cleaned and protected my son's bedroom carpet so I could have a play, pure orange juice was poured on it also black current and a bit of olive oil, gave it a rub with my fingers and then set up my TM which takes 5 minutes, the stains all went OK they were still damp and OK customers don't have TM's but there was bead up, did the same with an old seat cushion I have in the garage and simular results.
Trick is to have the just cleaned item at ph6 so the protector bonds better.
I have new belief in it, I've been using Restormates protector.
Shaun
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Shaun
It's the oldest trick in the book IMO to Caret Cleaners, trying to up their ticket price to make extra money for next to nothing.
I for one never push protector and my reputation as such has reflected this honesty in my favour. I know and I feel sure you do that this after market spray on protector wears off at an alarming rate and renders itself as useless, apart from earning you that extra £. But long term I think I win. For my business it's a no goer, but then I believe in long term customer relations.
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Protectors have never been so good, upping the job ticket is correct but years ago protector was far more expensive then it is now so my price is more affordable but that said I don't believe it does wear off as quick as you may think. In my last house I protected all of the carpets as they were all newly laid and most still showed signs of beading 3 years later again the hall and lounge areas didn't but I cleaned them the most.
I still think that the application has to be right that is where you can fall down, I seem to be more confident with protector ever since I started to understand the chemistry a bit more and also the bonding of other things like leather dyes etc, that doesn't make me an expert but it does make you prepare better.
Shaun
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I have thought about pushing protector more myself, i have gone back to scotchguard concentrate dilutes 1-8, so it can be quite profitable at £40.00 for 4 litres.
I am going to start offering on every job without been too pushy.
I have done quite well selling it in the past using Prochem Fluroseal. There was just not much of a profit margin.
Mark
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I'll stick with the old fashioned way of of protecting the customer rather than a short term fuller wallet.
I have been in this business longer than most and I believe that selling protector is a money maker for the cleaner and not a valuable add on for the customer. They may as well save the cost towards future cleans. Not forgetting that more and more carpets these days are P/props and as such are naturally stain resitant and any application of a guard is like thieving money off the customer, but I know C/C's will still sell it.
Long term customer relations is what I care about whilst providing a second to none service. This is whats put me where I am after 30 years in this business. Just my opinion though...
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Glynn I completely understand your ethical stance, I wouldn't ever recommend protector to customers if I don't think it's of any value to them.
I agree that in some cases selling a protector to a customer gives them little value for money.
BUT In my experience, in a lot of cases it is real value for money.
I totally agree that with polyprops the value is low, not due to any scientific reason but purely because the polyprop carpets tend to be in the houses where the carpets get a pasting from kids/dogs etc, absolutely spot-on that they're going to get more value for money by spending it on cleaning more often.
However, I'm convinced that protector, at least the protector that I use anyway, is a massive benefit on wool carpets. My carpets at home were fitted last June, since that time they've been subjected to plenty of abuse.
I've spilled my tea going up stairs, I've cut myself and bled all over them, someone spilled soup in the lounge, someone trod a dog sh*t footprint on the bottom step, my nephew knocked his juice over.... in most cases all I've needed is a bit of kitchen towel to absorb the excess and then a damp cloth to finish off.
Only with the soup and the juice did I have to give it a quick rinse through with the machine, and the soup needed 10 mins of M-Power to sort it. The carpets still look absolutely brand new and I haven't got round to cleaning them properly yet :-[
I've tested the performance of the protector on the off-cuts from the carpet and can say without a shadow of a doubt that the un-protected samples suffer compared to the protected ones.
I go back to customers who've had protector and they tell they notice how it makes a difference. I'm not blind and definitely don't take the ostrich approach. I couldn't sleep at night if I knew I was ripping people off.
I'm not doubting your experience for one minute and definitely don't mean to sound disrespectful but maybe you're working with old knowledge of old products? Technology moves on, protectors now are better than they were a number of years ago.
I've got no ethical problem at all with the protector that I sell, I know it's offering value. And Mark I price it at plus 50% of the cleaning cost, not taking the wee-wee at all if it's sold with a conscience.
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Yep, Jim has expanded a bit on my first point.
But maybe we also have a DUTY to mention it.
Consider. We've cleaned their plain newish light-coloured wool-rich carpet. Then we pack up and go home without recommending protector (definitely valid to mention in this case).
Customer spills red wine and when we go back to try to remove it, for once it won't all come out. Customer doesn't have accidental cover on his insurance. Customer finds out about protector. Now he doesn't think much of us as we didn't recommend what was best for him.
If we at least recommend where appropriately, then even if the customer says "no" there can be no come-back on us if there is a future disaster which anti-staining may have prevented happening.
I've had good reports back from customers who have had spillages on protected fabrics and I like to price it in such a way (and so explained) that customers are not put off from having their carpets cleaned on a regular basis.
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Well said Roger.
but more's the point, why the bloody hell aren't some of us tucked up in our beds at this time of morning ???
(i could answer that very well but it's personal :) )
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Trying to find spaces for another 20 people coming to the dinner I am organising on Saturday. (Now upto 320 and still rising.)
My head is done in & just unwinding on the forum.
Off to bed. It'll be even later tomorrow and Saturday. Good job nobody's booked any work in for me next week :). Or mores to the point nobody wanted to phone me to book any work in. ;D
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I am with Glynn on this one. In my view protector is poor value for money for most clients and risky for your own reputation:-
1. It costs almost as much as an extra clean - if you do it properly
2. It extends the drying times and potential for problems. Unless you are prepared to use airmovers and wait around
3. No matter how much you tell clients its not bullet proof' - they always want to believe it is
4. If they drop hair dye on the carpet it makes no difference whether it is protected or not. So which stain is it that can only be removed if the carpet is protected but couldn't be removed if it was not protected.
I will protect a carpet or upholstery if the client asks for it. I won't promote it. Many times I talk them out of it.
That said I fully accept anyones right to promote and sell protector. We all have to do what we think is right for our own businesses.
If I were to promote protector again I would need to see a set of scientific tests carried out which independantly proved the value of the treatment. Is anyone aware of scientific tests being carried out? If not - why not? Sounds like a job for the NCCA!
Nigel
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I recall you saying you made alot of money in your early days selling protector Nigel 6 times more than an average c/cers entire turnover.
Alot of c/cers need this upsell to make a living.
I do offer it, at 30% of clean, tell them its not full proof, what I dont like about it is the lengthened drying time, getting a wet carpet wetter, much rather put it on a dry carpet I also feel it would work better then too.
Craig
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Glynn I completely understand your ethical stance, I wouldn't ever recommend protector to customers if I don't think it's of any value to them.
I agree that in some cases selling a protector to a customer gives them little value for money.
BUT In my experience, in a lot of cases it is real value for money.
I totally agree that with polyprops the value is low, not due to any scientific reason but purely because the polyprop carpets tend to be in the houses where the carpets get a pasting from kids/dogs etc, absolutely spot-on that they're going to get more value for money by spending it on cleaning more often.
However, I'm convinced that protector, at least the protector that I use anyway, is a massive benefit on wool carpets. My carpets at home were fitted last June, since that time they've been subjected to plenty of abuse.
I've spilled my tea going up stairs, I've cut myself and bled all over them, someone spilled soup in the lounge, someone trod a dog sh*t footprint on the bottom step, my nephew knocked his juice over.... in most cases all I've needed is a bit of kitchen towel to absorb the excess and then a damp cloth to finish off.
Only with the soup and the juice did I have to give it a quick rinse through with the machine, and the soup needed 10 mins of M-Power to sort it. The carpets still look absolutely brand new and I haven't got round to cleaning them properly yet :-[
I've tested the performance of the protector on the off-cuts from the carpet and can say without a shadow of a doubt that the un-protected samples suffer compared to the protected ones.
I go back to customers who've had protector and they tell they notice how it makes a difference. I'm not blind and definitely don't take the ostrich approach. I couldn't sleep at night if I knew I was ripping people off.
I'm not doubting your experience for one minute and definitely don't mean to sound disrespectful but maybe you're working with old knowledge of old products? Technology moves on, protectors now are better than they were a number of years ago.
I've got no ethical problem at all with the protector that I sell, I know it's offering value. And Mark I price it at plus 50% of the cleaning cost, not taking the wee-wee at all if it's sold with a conscience.
Jim,
There is no point in protecting polyprops for the simple fact that there is no point in putting a plastic coating on a plastic fibre, or at least this is what i have been led to believe on all the training courses ive done over the years.
Mark
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I dont over sell it, I tell them its a protector not a plastic sheet but it gives you time to get to the kitchen get a cloth and blot it up, dont leave it till the morning.
I think it was Kev Loomes that said he tried Restoremates protector on his own carpet, put something on purpose on the carpet, beaded up and left it for a while, got fed up looking at it sitting there. So thats what he uses. Think I will if its that good.
Murky
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Has anyone ever used a test kit for testing how good the exsiting protector is.
Any idea where you get one?
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I applied protector last week and was astounded at the result.
I cleaned a large white suite in a conservatory. The owner had very high standards and asked if I recommended protector. I did a "deal" and the total price was £ 170. it was a horrible wet day so I had to go back the following day to apply it when the suite was dry.
Two days later she phoned up in a panic. The dog (who was on anti biotics) had peed all over one of the white cushions. Apparently the urine was bright yellow / orange.
It told her to blot it, then wipe with a damp cloth until I got there (next day).
When I arrived, there was no stain and virtually no odour. She said the urine had sat on top (just like the adverts). A quick spray with de odouriser and it was sorted. I'm convinced that stain would have been permanent without protection.
The client was ecstatic (she'd got guests coming to stay that evening) and was singing the praises of protector.
She does not think she's been conned. She has now booked carpets to be done.
Garry
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Which protector you recommend.
I was told Guardsman was the best but can't find wher to buy it.
John
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Nigel,
Protector costs as much as you price it, surely!! As you say, if it's done properly it is of fantastic benefit.
In a lot of cases it doesn't "cost" at all, it saves. Avoiding a £50 or £100 excess on an insurance claim is one such example, like Garry mentions above. A protected carpet will have far fewer spots and marks on it over the long run, providing the customer follows advice and deals with them as they happen. It'll look better for longer and not need replacing so soon.
If they don't follow the advice given it's their fault isn't it?! You wouldn't knowingly run your car tyres at 15psi and then complain because they wore down prematurely. You didn't follow the manufacturer's guidelines, so you pay the penalty!
Drying times.... The amount of extra moisture from a protector shouldn't present any problem at all if the carpet has been cleaned diligently, it should only be slightly damp after extraction. Potential problems from moisture, i.e. browning or mildew should still be way out of question, even if protector is applied straight after extraction!
You don't have to waste time with airmovers. Clean a room, put a fan in there whilst you clean the next room, protect the dried carpet, and so on... anyway, you don't have to have completely dried the carpet off before you protect it, in some ways a little moisture there helps out.
3. No matter how much you tell clients its not bullet proof' - they always want to believe it is
That's a fault with the way it's sold to them, not the client. It's not hard to reinforce an important point so they remember it.
4. If they drop hair dye on the carpet it makes no difference whether it is protected or not. So which stain is it that can only be removed if the carpet is protected but couldn't be removed if it was not protected.
Again, a fault with the way the product is sold to the customer. Tell them the benefits, tell them what it can and can't do and they can be left in no doubt.
Why the need for lab tests and scientific statistics??!!? Field testing is the only proof IMO and after nearly 18 months of said testing on my own carpets, as described above, I've got absolutely no moral problem with selling protector at the price I sell it..... because I only sell it in the right situation!
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Jim,
There is no point in protecting polyprops for the simple fact that there is no point in putting a plastic coating on a plastic fibre, or at least this is what i have been led to believe on all the training courses ive done over the years.
Mark
Is there any point putting a coating on top of a vinyl floor then? :)
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as far as i am aware you must at least damp a carpet if not clean it before applying protector otherwise the protector will be 'sucked' straight into the core of the wool leaving the outside short of protector, damping first 'fills' the fibre allowing the protector to coat the outside where it will do its job.
i once cleaned a wool carpet on a really hot day, one end of the room was virtually dry before i had finished the other, applied protector and the customer was chuffed. next day he called me and the carpet and shrunk one way and stretched the other!! ok i think there was some bigger problem with the carpet but it made me wary of making a carpet over wet with protector.
colin
ps what is the average time you lot go to bed? i thought i was pretty late at around 11.30 - 12 but 1am and 2!! don't you have to get up.
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I'm up at all hours sometimes :) charge up my sleep on weekends, if I'm lucky ::)
Colin, if you're applying water-based protector to a dry carpet it's perfectly feasible to dilute the product 1:1 and apply more liberally to wet out the fibres. There are one or two protectors I remember seeing the instructions of that state stronger and weaker dilution rates for wet and dry carpets respectively.
Again, the carpet shouldn't be over wet, even applying the product straight after extraction. Something's gone wrong with the recovery of moisture during extraction if that's the case!
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Some protectors like the Solutions one being sold by Alltec require little protector to cover a room , to me the wory was making a little go far and I could not believe it coated the fibres
but it I am told good stuff
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from what i was told, protector that you guys use only works if the original item was protected in factory conditions in the first place, you lot are only buying what is called top up protector. which is great if like i said its applied onto original protecter. but onto an originally un protected carpet, it will wear off in a matter of weeks. just what i was told so don't quote me on this.
i dont use and would never use protectors, if one of my clients spills anything i clean it up free of charge as soon as possible.
derek
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That's specific to Scotchgard Derek.
Free emergency clean-ups are good as a PR move, I did one today, but don't let them take the mickey!! Often you might not have to type an invoice but still get a little something for your troubles ;)
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I always start with " Its not a miracle cure but..............."
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Guys
Don't you think that Protection should be part of your standard service? with more and more people using hard floors you have to ask yourself why? may be that they have had it with all those stains?
In the UK we use wool more as you all know, and you all know it stains really easy. as professional we should be providing this service within our price. our costs are low so why not?
Its the long term of our market that's important not sort term profit. I tell my customers how cheap it is and how quickly it can be put down.
Protection adds value to your service if others are charging for it. what is a prospect going to do if she has two prices the same one with and one without?
Respect
Ian Harper
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The protection market is a multi million pound enterprise. Carpet cleaners obtain a fraction of this. It can, if sold sensibly amount to a substantial amount of your turnover.
At the end of the day you are running a business why pass over what could be a substantial contribution to your standard of living.
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Derek,
Forgive me if I'm wrong but I thought I saw somewhere that you have come to the business relatively recently (no offence meant).
A few years ago I did a job for a lady who had just had a baby.
A couple of weeks ago I went to do the yearly clean. That "baby" was packing up to go back to university! When I did the job first time I never expected to be going back as many times as I did.
The point I'm making is that (hopefully) you will get repeat business and applying protector will make life so much easier next time round. In the case above I think I have been there (probably) TWENTY times.
On of those visits was to remove a whole bottle of red wine when one of the kids banged two bottles together. I still don't know how it came out but it did.
What I'm trying to say is... don't look upon it as ripping the customer off. Look at it as protecting the customer's assetts and making life easy for yourself in the future.
regards, Garry
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garry
you obviously do a good job for this lady and thats why you get repeat custom, i too do a good job and am confident that i will get repeat custom just like you. the only diff being that my customers will not have to fork out for protector, a quick phone call and the red wine stain would of come out no problem. and as for making it easy, isn't it easy enough. can't believe how some of the guys on hear(and i only mean some) parp on about how tough the job is, i love what i'm doing and so do my customers, i don't believe protector works (my own opinion) and therefore will tell my customers they don't need it. i personally believe protector only benefits the cc's pockets, and i'm not knocking anyone who does it, we all have mouths to feed, its just not my style.
each to there own.
derek
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Derek
Manufacturers do not apply protector.................this is and always has been " farmed out "to others, the space, packaging, general logistics of moving furniture through and out of a factory, is the reason.
I know the people who " protected " local manufacturers suites for many years............no longer done, as they now import and badge :( :( :(
I have also found that many supposedly protected suites had no sign of protection in spite of being charged around £250, or more.
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What's the average price per sq metre using Scotchguard and Fluoroseal??
Carpet shop down the road are selling carpet protection at £15 per sq metre.
John
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WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT??!!!
lol
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I will start the bidding at £2.50 m2.
BUT that can depend on custy type, brand new carpet, or top up, room size etc etc.
I used to charge £3.50 but wasnt getting many, now quite a few.
Murky
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Will find out the name of the shop in the next few days but it was stuck up in big letters as if it was the bargain of the year.
Carpet Stain Protection
Only £15 per sq m
How can you afford not to?
Give yourself peace of mind.
Or something along those lines.
My living room 4m x 5m = £300
John
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The way to sell more protector is to order 4 times what you usually stock.
Then you have got to sell it ;D ;D ;D
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Like I did with Anti Stat through not reading coverage properly
Ended up buying 9 instead of 2.
Better still though I quoted them for 9 and they took the quote before I realised my mistake.
So got 7 for free.
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Does a protector stop stains running down to the backing of a carpet, i.e. would it slow the effects of cat urine on a wool carpet or even polyprop??
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Does a protector stop stains running down to the backing of a carpet, i.e. would it slow the effects of cat urine on a wool carpet or even polyprop??
Once fluid does penetrate into a protected carpet fibers (being dropped from a height or after several minutes) then it will penetrate more so than if the carpet was not protected.
I tested black coffee on my protected carpet. It sat there for several minutes and then almost suddenly it disappeared right to the bottom of the pile.
In the case of odour producing substances this would not be good.
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But when you apply a protector does it often reach the bottom of the pile to form a protective layer, or usually just coat the pile fibres?
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I cleaned an oven the other week and when I asked if the woman would like a no obligation quote for a carpet clean... She told me it didn't need it because she had it protected for £500... For a 3 bed house???
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The protectors I use work well but they take 24 hours to cure so not always pratical
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They might take 24 hours to cure, but carpet should be dry before that. Obviously going to take more to dry then just leaving after cleaning cause you wetting again, but once dry no problems - I tell em 6 hours to dry. keep em off it as long as possible but within reason.
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I like Nigel's suggestion of getting someone like the NCCA to do a proper test on the effectiveness of protectors.
It would be useful for everyone wouldn't it? I will suggest it ;-)
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if we recommemd protector and they have it is this a guarantee that they wont get stains?, if they do get stains will we have to go back and remove it for free?. I think the customer will see it that way.
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several years ago queensland got the contract for stainguarding suites in the duresta factory as they were using delicate fabrics stapro mixed us a high solids solvent based formula for the fabrics. At that time we did a lot of testing of the products on the market. I find it hard to believe that there are people on the forum that deny any benefits to the products. As well as the stain protection they also have benefits of "smoothing" course fibres making them esier to vacuum. Whilst they offer no benefits to polypropylene they do for nylons and acrylics.
As well as having leaflets printed we also had some cards made with the benfits of the stainguard on absorbant card one half of the card we stainguarded and after cleaning delicate farics or light coloured carpet we would pour ink or beetroot juice onto the card The beetroot juice would just come off the card on the staingaurded half with he stainguard on but the half without the staingard on would become soggy and stained. Any doubt of the benefits of stainguard is instantly eroded. When I was sailing I would keep the waterproofing of my clothes with stainguard. I have no dobts that the products do have benefits. I do not hard sell it but in certain situations it does offer the customer benefits and if I feel that the cutomer can afford it I will try to sell it. There are a lot of people who will sell it to anybody and have won many contracts where people have quoted for staingaurd on polyprpylene carpets.