Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: derek west on October 06, 2008, 02:11:24 pm
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ok, i know no one knows the answer but thought i'd throw this out.
designed a leaflet today going on everything that everybody suggested on here, yes its pink, yes its got discounts, yes its about the customer-ish and not about how great i am, all though i am ;D.
anyway, does any one think 250 gram glossy would make any difference compared to 135 gram glossy.
i can't see it but if anyone has some reasonable proof i'll go for the thicker, afterall this is supposed to be everything positive to get the percentage rate up.
frankensteins leaflet i call it.
derek
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You have mail Derek!
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gary
very nice and very professional, nothing like mine though, i had a very professional one done and did'nt get much responce so thats why i'm going for this cheesy all singing pink one. worth a go. 10k printed, A5 full colour front and back 135gsm£100 or 250gsm £148.then me and me mate will deliver them monday tuesday wednesday next week. then monitor the responce, i'll post the results. 1 in 500 with the professional ones, so i'm aiming to beat that with plenty of cheese.
derek
ps still not sure on the thickness.
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My girlfriend said she would go for the thicker one and pink is the preferred colour.
There are a lot of things I would change with that leaflet next time but had a very good response from it but do admit I live in a secluded area with very little competition and no one else leafleting.
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My girlfriend said she would go for the thicker one and pink is the preferred colour.
;D
Derek
Of course you can find the answer.
Take the same leaflet copy and put half on thick paper and half on normal. Distribute evenly.
Record the number of enquiries through to actual jobs and payment.
Then take away the added cost of the thicker paper. You then have your answer.
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My girlfriend said she would go for the thicker one and pink is the preferred colour.
gary are you bragging or is your gfriend saying your not the brightest light in the household.
derek
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:( the second one of the two :-[, but luckily her sister and mother aren't as fussy ;D
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Derek,
Is the copy already working well (or does just designed mean you've done it from scratch)?
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Giz a look Derek ;)
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Yeah, show us yours Derek, you've seen mine :o
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gary
did it this morning from scratch, got prontaprint tidying it up for me and changing it from publisher to pdf, hopefully by tomorrow.
its bright pink, its got a discount, the front can be read in 10 seconds and its caring-ish. the back warns of the pitfalls and has some of my before and after work on it. think thats everything you guys have advised me on, so think of it as all your ideas brought together. frankensteins leaflet.
if any one wants to see it just email me and i'll send it tomorrow when i get it back from pronto. oh and don't laugh.
remember this is a trial run, only running 10k.
derek
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Must be your lucky day Derek!!!
When I started this business in 2000 I designed all the invoicing, letterheads and everything in Publisher 2000, I still use it just because it is there. The downside is the .pub file extetnsion is not used by many firms at all and it does not copy and paste into any other Microsoft programme I have.
BUT!! You can copy and paste it into the free Open Office application which is a rip off of Microsoft Office, and it is a free download, once it is in Open Office it is just one click to convert to PDF 8).
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Derek
Do you ever get people saying you look like that cheeky chappie Dominic guy on The One Show?
Might as well capitalise on it if it gets you extra business.
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believe it or not i get mistaken for vin diesel.
oh and a local taxi driver called dave.
never seen the one show.
derek
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You're a big fkr then. He's huge.
Did you get my email for referrals?
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Yep, spitting image of Dave the cabbie, he has done a good job of cleaning that tarmac as well. You should use that as a before and after picture.
I thought Derek was a youngster, but he is older than me ;D ;D
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Have you ever seen 'Dave' the cabbie and 'Derek' the carpet cleaner at the same time and the same place? ;)
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Have you ever seen 'Dave' the cabbie and 'Derek' the carpet cleaner at the same time and the same place? ;)
No, spooooky, bit like Janet & Michael Jackson then.
Big difference between the two, one is reliable, punctual, professional & declares all their cash income and the other is a carpet cleaner.
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;D
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i used to be a muscley fkr but ive not pumped iron for a while now mike.
i just pump burgers and stakes down my gullet now.
yeah got your referals email, cheers, i'll have a nosey in either the library or that big book shop that i can never remember the name of but has a costa coffee above it in warrington.
yes i am an old bugger but my wife keeps me young.
still not resolved my dilemma
135 or 250.
not really getting anywhere with this am i?
derek
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Derek
My experience has been you will get more response, but not enough to cover the extra cost.
But, you need to test because your area, target market, distribution method may mean different.
Hope that helps. :-\
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mike.
yeah i think your right, but first i suppose i should test the design of the leflet. once thats working then try the 250 gram, see if it makes it work better.
hoping for 40 jobs from 10k leaflets, is that attainable? cos if it is then this time next year we'll be millionaires
derek
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Derek, can I take a look, no e-mail on your profile - send to applepaul260z@yahoo.co.uk
Cheers
Paul
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The average job per thousand done with an OK delivery is 1 in 1000, if you are solus then yes you may get 4 in 1000, teh content is part of it and the job ticket is the most important.
4 x £30 = £120
1 x £150 = £150
Which is better?
Delivering leaflets is a bit of trial and error and memory, go to the places where you have done well before on the quality of the job ticket and then go and farm it.
Shaun
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Did you say what size you are doing and how are you distributing them?
Checklist
Headline is the most important
Your USP
Offer
testimonials
Call to action
Test only one variable at a time and start with the headline
If I get 3/1000 I'm happy. That's A4 80gsm BW
Cheapest paper is morrisons budget. £1.74 average job price just over a ton.
Testing Xerox Symphony pale yellow this week @ about 2.75 a ream.
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Here is something I have knocked up in the last few minutes, but this is for a targeted letter campaign. Rip it to bits as it is not finished or even spell checked yet as I am off for a bath.
Free carpet protection for November Only
Dear Mr Smith,
As the nights draw in and we spend more time indoors now is the perfect time to not only have your carpets & upholstery deep steam cleaned and during November we will Stain Guard your furnishings for free.
For example an average size living room can cost as much as £130 to be professionally protected. We are offering this service for free on all bookings taken in the next 2 weeks for November cleans only
* . Offer only available for the next 2 weeks
* . Discounts offered on multiple rooms
* . Prolong the live of your carpets & upholstery
* . Hygienically fresh and clean
* . Fast drying
* . Local professional service
Our previous offers have proved very popular and is available only for cleaning in November. We even offer a 100% satisfaction guarantee so if you are not delighted with our service you do not pay a penny
Yours sincerely,
P.S. Call us today to take advantage of this fantastic offer
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shaun my average ticket is £75
we put 1500 leaflets out on friday and have had 3 jobs, doing 2 tomorrow, 1 in the morning and 1 at 3 oclock, £210.
think i can do better by changing the leaflets.
should be getting them ready to be delivered next monday, all 10k will be out by wednesday next week, weather permitting.
mike
A5 double sided full colour. 10,000 135 gsm £100 (print carrier) but i'm paying the extra to get them by friday,
delivered by hand, 2 of us
headline
beautiful clean fresh carpets
thats our promise to you
should have the results a week on friday for rapid responce.
derek
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Sounds like a good leaflet derek.
Good price as well for that quanytity was that with your own artwork ???
Be good to know how you do with them derek...
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Shyed away from PC because they just print the file as it comes.
I think if you want a head start with leaflets you can't beat DP Print.
Now I've got a RISO any ideas can be turned round in a day.
Anyone else clock the signwriting on the inside door of that IVECO/450D for sale? I will be borrowing that headline. ;)
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clinton
i did the artwork but pronaprint are polishing it for me, £50+vat
and everyone keeps going on about pink so pink ta fck it is.
mike
whats the headline?
oh and while i'm here. is it just me or do others read mikes posts in the voice of smooth tony, or at least i think he's called smooth tony,
putting a leaflet together is like making love to a beautiful women, lets face it ya can never seem to say the right things.
derek
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Derek your some man, it's Swiss Tony, not Smooth Tony ya clown!
I think I'll start calling you Viking Derek.
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putting a leaflet together is like making love to a beautiful women, lets face it ya can never seem to say the right things.
derek
You are very right about that. The letter I posted above was knocked up in 5 mins and will be thrown out the door when it ceases to become useful. Ill remember that when I do the next one, Ill use fresh clean paper that not everyone else has had a scribble on first, take my time, say the right things, then go off and use someone elses :-X
Thought someone would have had something to say about the letter, I can see a few areas that need minor surgery and one area that needs botox.
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It's something like 'The nearest thing to a new carpet you can get.....'
It's on ebay and TMs
Swiss Tony
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Cleaning carpets is a bit like making love to a beautiful woman.
First youve got to get out your vacuum and suck up most of the dirt, then get a bit of moisture down there with a nice pre-spray, then you get out your wand and finnish the job off, making lots of noise in the process, leaving it every so slightly damp.
Tony
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;D
Thought you were going to mention about turning them on as well, glad I am not the only one that skips that bit.
It is no coincidence that it is the blowers that cause most the problems as well. Sometimes they leak, sometimes they get a bit dirty and if it is a good mate you would trust him with it over the weekend.
Some are costly to run and once you have one seem to be forever paying out on hidden extras and things you don't need.
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And when they get old they start to leak, at this point it is defiantly best to trade in for a newer model.
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Mine is still new hence I still enjoy playing with it but Im sure that will change. At least with a carpet cleaning machine you can leave it in the van overnight.
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Derek,
Normally I'd give a long list of Do' and Don'ts for the content of leaflets but here's something that may get overlooked.
Probably the biggest boost to response here will be that you are delivering them yourself. Here's why.
I started in this business on the marketing side (in a friend's business).
We ran two teams of five leafletters. Every leafletter had there own serial number on the leaflets (we ran a bonus scheme, they got extra payment for each job booked).
Young and niaive, I could never understand why one girl got more orders than others when really, the answer was staring me in the face.
I had a phone call from a man in Sutton Coldfield....
"i've had one of your leaflets"
Me.. "Yes?"
"Well, several thousand actually!"
It was the head "Ranger" from Sutton Park (the big park in Birmingham where they used to hold the RAC rally).
One of the leafletters had been dumping them in the park on a regular basis. We checked the serial numbers and called the kid in. He denied all knowledge (even though they were his numbered leaflets.. and he lived next to the park). We sacked him. Do you know, he even phoned up months later to see if we had any jobs going!
Good luck,
Garry
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only two things really matter for leaflets, :-
a good offer and
lots of them
they could be printed on toilet paper, if it was a good offer and got to enough people then you will get work.
Generally people are not interested in what colour the paper is or how thick, that's just a complete waste of money, cheap leaflets in volume is the most viable way to go.
We've been using a riso for a while now and is great as you can change the offer frequently and churn out thousands of leaflets continuosly and cheaply!
regards
steve
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whats a riso steve???
derek
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Have a look at this on ebay. 140272529589
I got this model from Muro and I can highly recommend them.
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A Riso is a printing machine sometimes used by copy shops, they are very fast not unlike a photocopier and pretty good quality. I think Ian Harper uses one as well.
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I'm with Steve Chapman on this.. Content is king.
The paper is one tiny variable. Saying that, the heavier paper might make people keep hold of them longer IF the content is right.
This is true. A lady booked a job from a leaflet in 2006. Nothing strange about that ... until you realise we stopped delivering leaflets in 1996! She'd kept it for ten years.
Garry
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cheesy and pink, what do you reckon guys, oh and if you can't see anything its cos i'm not a teckie and failed to load the flyer.
oh and say what ya like, its my experiment and a don't give a monkeys.
derek
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Red & pink & blue, hard to read!
A few spelling mistakes and picture quality is poor and will be totally lost when it is printed.
The typeface is not clear or easy to read in parts.
Steve Chapman gave some good pointers and Mike Halliday is the leaflet king.
To be honest I don't like it, I think there are too many negatives and no call to action.
Please start again :(
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no. i refuse, its going out, apart from the spelling mistakes, where are they.
derek
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;D YES I insist ;D
Only found one obvious one so far, it is an AD not an ADD.
The word dear looks like clear in that typeface.
Get some more feedback before you run with it.
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my mrs says dear looks more like dewi so your wrong, cos she's always right. and i don't care what anyone says by next wednesday 10,000 households will be throwing up at the sight of my gordy looking leaflet, and who's gonna clean all that sick up, yes thats right, me. theres cunning in my leaflet plan. always thinkin me.
derek
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Because there is a shadow over the carpet in the before and after photo's it's very difficult to see why one is the before and one is the after. :-\
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agree with you there cathedral, gutted when i took the photos and saw them later, that was a mingin carpet and it was pristine when i'd finished. might have to change it but i aint got anymore of my own, and i really wanted to put my own work on there, its really hard to get a good photo, rooms are so dull and lightless that you don't get many chances, and the houses that are light are usually just a general clean. oh well.
derek
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get em printed and stuck in people letterboxes!!
I remember Rob Saunders saying....."better to be prolific than perfect" ( only sensible thing I've ever heard him say ;) )
you can keep on working on it, but while its sat in your computer its not bringing in work.
Mike
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am doing mike,
gonna pay extra and get them hopefully for friday, all 10k will be out by wednesday next week weather permitting, he who dares eh mike.
derek
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The thing about it is it's different. Personally it would go straight in the bin, but I bet you do OK with it.
Don't be disheartened if you don't get your 40 jobs, it all evens out in the end.
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Get them out derek and let us know how you get on :)
Got mine being done at the mo,there again no doubt they will be stuck in the van at xmas ::)
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Just noticed nobody said anything about the sales letter I knocked up last night, I had forgotten I had posted it.
Not bad for 5 mins work I thought :-\
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Presume you all thought it was rubbish then :'(
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Derek are you printing the pick or putting it on pink paper?
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I like it Del,get them out,hope you do well.
Gary the letter was great,i thought.
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Derek,
Not bad for your first attempt. Remember you are selling to the general public, not to carpet cleaners.
Obviously, you are aware of the photograph issue. I thought the photo's showed before and after. I did not realise it was a shadow!
Garyj makes a valid point about negatives. I've seen big increases in response when negatives have been replaced with positives.
The second paragraph (things to consider)needs subtle attention.....
You should be looking at it from this point of view. "Here's what we'll do for you that most other carpet cleaners won't".
Then list them with bullets to make reading easier. eg "Your carpets will be as dry as possible because we use powerful dryers to reduce drying times by up to 90%".
Just a matter of interest, we added the words "High Quality" to an existing leaflet a few years ago. Those two words boosted response from 2% to 6%. I couldn't believe it.
Well done,
Garry
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Derek, are you keeping some sort of record, statistics or whatever for your leaflet drops?
It'd be interesting to compare stuff with you from my own small-scale testing I've been doing.
I've put out 5170 leaflets on my own to selected areas so far. I've had 11 leads and turned 7 of those into jobs. Those jobs have given me back £574, so an average job ticket of £82 (crap compared to referrals which is £150-ish).
But.....How's this for an encouraging thought: Every time I push a leaflet through a letterbox it earns me 11 pence :)
That's made me feel a lot more optimistic about it after doing some areas several times over a few months and not getting a dickie bird.
Of course I haven't taken into account repeat business from the initial job, one of which I've probably done another £500 worth of cleaning for after his initial response to the leaflet. Although it's really difficult quantifying things like that, I'm a bit of an excel junkie so I do keep a lot of stats and figures etc, it's amazing sometimes how different the stats are from what you "think" is the case :)
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Jim
Thats a good responce isnt it ???
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jim
i keep track of where my calls are coming from, thats the first question me or my wife asks when we get a call, yell.com is winning so far with referals in 2nd place, which is good considering ive not done that many jobs being a newbie, then its leaflets followed by local papers and in last place its good old yellow pages, and that was the dearest, oh well, at least i know for next year, got a load more local papers starting tommorrow and end of november ive got a local magazine and an advert magazine, next week is the 10k pink leaflets all though i'm running a bit late so may put them off til the week after, anyway, lots going on to get that phne red hot. but lets face it, all you can do is keep ya fingers crossed and drink viking lager.
derek
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Clinton - response rate is 0.21% and actual conversions into jobs is 0.14%. But of course it's all about the bottom line. I got 10,000 DL Flyers printed for £300..... so approx half delivered = £150 worth of leaflets which have returned £574.
What I've got to consider next is how to roll it out large scale, obviously paying to have them delivered then comes into it. I've decided not to touch the freee newspapers with a barge pole, even though I can get 1,000 out for £12.75. My barber has just started doing some leaflets, obviously we have a bit of a chat whilst I'm in his chair. he's got a local lad doing a decent area and delivering £25/thousand.
We're talking about sharing a leaflet, one of us on each side, and maybe upping his money to £30/thousand because they'll be bigger leaflets and obviously the cost is split 2 ways.
So, if for example it costs me £15/thousand to have them delivered I'd have to take off £75 from what they've earned me but that'd still mean I'd turned £150 into £500, gross profit of course.
Also, going up to a bigger scale I'd be getting my leaflets at a much lower cost per unit so there's a bit of economy to be made there to counter-act the delivery cost. Printcarrier quote £288 for 30,000 on similar weight paper.
Derek, interesting stats. After a few years, if you're on the right track, old customers should hopefully be number one provider of work, by a decent margin too, with referrals still providing a good share of your business source.
Your yell.com success is maybe an indicator that plenty of folks are looking for your type of services on the net? Maybe a good idea to have a closer look at how you can make your website work better too? If you're not too knackered from traipsing the streets all day ;D
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I wouldn't share with a barber. a lot of people will keep a leaflet until they need it so you need to share a leaflet with a business which will (either now or in the future) be needed by the customer,
If I got a leaflet from a barber I would look where his shop is then chuck it away, no good if you are on the other side. So an electrician, decorator,builder, is ideal.
but!!!! if it's a Barber or nothing I'd still go with him.
and £300 for 10k is way too exspensive, £400ish for 50k is better ;)
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Agreed that a barber isn't the obvious choice, but it's him or nothing tbh, and the delivery thing is through him...
The 10,000 were done by a local firm, I know they're higher priced than the big boys but I didn't really shop around at the time, just went to someone I knew had done a good job for me before on other things.
These were DL Flyers on 250gsm paper, printcarrier quotes much better rates:
www.printcarrier.com/gb/category-10819/DIN-long-9.8-cm-x-21-cm.html
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am sure mike get poor kids with no shoes on to post his ??? ???
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there DIN not DL
DIN= 2 to an A4 sheet, DL 3/A4 (I think ;) )I use DL
James I've just imported a family of Iranians to put mine out :D
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take it the poles were no good :D :D :D ;) ;)
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Printcarrier's "DIN Long" = 3 to an A4 sheet. 9.8 x 21 cm. 21 is obviously the width of the A4 sheet, 9.8 is one third its height, looking at it in portrait of course..
DL is a completely different size.
But lets not split hairs :) :)
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I'm normally the first one to bang on about statistics but sometimes you can get too involved with percentage returns.
Sometimes even break even is good if you gain extra customers. Look at how much they will bring in during the next five years.
Each new customer is two to three potential referrals as well.
Look at ROI (return on investment).
Jim you made five hundred quid on the front end. You know there will still be enquiries off those leaflets months, sometimes years afterwards. Add to that referrals, it soon mounts up.
Garry
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Another mindboggling thing is whether it is actually worth delivering leaflets yourself as opposed to say wacking it in the local rag.
What if you spend the time testing what ads get better response or coming up with creative ideas that done once are set up for good. So, even though you might get .5-1 job per thou, you can atleast get off the delivering treadmill.
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there is a guy selling full colour printed both sides on 300gm paper for £58 for 5000 on ebay
the price includes the postage
malcolm ritz cleaners
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Garry, I agree with you 100%
Like I said above, that's not taking into account the repeat work generated from the leaflets, one customer's repeat business alone has doubled the initial revenue directly attributed to putting leaflets through doors.
ROI is important and, as you rightly say, Customer Lifetime Value in terms of repeats and referrals... how do you quantify that?? You can't!
Mike, I can't speak for anyone else but I wouldn't want to deliver leaflets on a permanent basis either! I'm trialling this myself because I'm the only one I can trust to do it properly at the moment lol
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Many a true word said in jest Jim. I paid a girl to deliver leaflets a few months back, about a month ago I got a call from her dad asking me to pick up the leaflets in his garage. He was a nice bloke and said he knew how expensive these things are so thought I would want them back. Should have seen his face when I told him I already paid £50 to his daughter to have them delivered.
Do not envy Derek having a go at 10,000 in less than a week, I was doing a couple of hours and 400 hundred a day, that was enough for me. Also delivering them yourself you often bump into the owners especially at weekends and can sale the service easier and is far more natural than door knocking.
Hard boring work though.
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If only at the start it's worth doing yourself (although hopefully, you'll be too busy cleaning to carry on). It is only the true way of knowing that they definitely have gone through the doors.
At least that way you can get some idea of feedback.
Garry
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Gary22
You are dead right, you can't make sense of the stats that come back from other delivery methods unless you have a benchmark that you can trust.
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its nearly impossible to leaflet yourself, as has been said it is mind-numbingly boring.
the only way to do it is in short stints, an hour every morning before your first job make a habit of getting to your first job early and put out leaflets. Then 1/2 an hour 2 more times throughout the day between jobs.
Now I've got a reliable distributor I book my first job of the day @ 8am, I used to book my first job for 9am but still get there at 8 and leaflet.
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we were thinking along them lines mike, but as i'm not rushed off my feet as its early days, i might as well use my 1 or 2 full days to leaflet like a maniac, then as we get jobs from it do as you mentioned.
derek
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Good luck Derek.
I HATE leafleting, I`v delivered thousands.
Tip 1, Don`t have too many coffees, Nothing worse than burstin for a slash.
Tip 2 Watch what you ware, too hot - too cold.
Tip 3 Never put your fingers through the letter box, it`s the ones that don`t bark that get ya. :o
Tip 4 Shut gates, don`t take short cuts over someone garden, though the urge is strong,
and SMILE ;D when you meet someone,
Any more?
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Tip 5. Don't be as ugly as Rab .It scares potential customers. ;D
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cheers rabby, wise words
anymore tips out there.
derek
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;D Pot callin the kettle, Black Ass.
You should get yourself out there leafleting and lose a few pounds. :P
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Aye Rab and putting a few more on while I'm off. ;D
Have you done any leather jobs yet?
bob
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Rabby, took the words right out of my mouth mate!!
I can add another couple from my thoughts and experiences..
Try not to scrunch the leaflet up when it goes through. I'm currently nursing skinless knuckles from making this extra effort though.. must try to think of a way to avoid this :(
I think that leaving your leaflet trapped in the letterbox might give you an edge. I've been using DL sized flyers and leaving them inserted into the letterbox the exact right way round for the customer to pick them up from the other side of the door and read them. Even if they do just want to chuck them away, at least theyll be holding it the right way around and reading it on the way to the bin. You never know, you might just do enough with your presentation to stop a few of them binning it immediately.
Try to go round after the postman has been, otherwise your leaflet will get pushed through with the mail and end up in the pile on the floor with all the other junk. It'll be siphoned off into the "B" pile as the householder is sorting through it all.
If they have to make a separate physical effort to remove your leaflet from the door, surely it's got a bit better chance than just being mixed in with all the rest?
I have figured that this emphasis on presenting the leaflet to the customer by leaving it trapped in the door is more likely to work when:
1) they have a horizontal letterbox in the middle of the door
2) you have been after the postman and no other things are getting pushed through the letterbox before the person arrives home.
I wonder what percentage of houses I've leafleted meet those two criteria?!
Maybe I've got too much time on my hands to think whilst I've been walking round doing this lol
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I do the same Jim with the same thought behind it. As you said nothing else to think about so try all sorts.
If a gate is closed on the way in, close it behind you and open it again on the way out, just try and be as disruptive as possible, something simialr already posted.
Even if there is a sign saying no junk mail still put it in ( I dont view this as junk!), you will get the odd stroppy one but just smile and keep going.
Mike made a good point earlier when he said every needs to have there carpets cleaned, if it was free we would be inundated with bookings, so it is a case of finding a price that works for you. Read recently that only 13% of people get their carpets cleaned and 13% use a Rug Doctor and 10% have their own in the form of a Vax or Bissell. So tons of work out there.
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finally arrived today after a mixup with payment.
very good print quality, i'd recommend print carrier to anyone.
now lets see what they'll get for me.
game on!
derek
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Got mine too derek from dp design in hull mike halliday recomended them its a great glossy flyer with some offers and not to much waffle :)
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nice one clinton
make sure you monitor them, we'll have a competition, see who gets the most calls per thou, winner gets a 4 pack of viking lager (for the man on a budget) from the loser.
game on ;D
derek
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:D :D
Put some through doors this morning were i was working in some appartments must say didnt like it lol.
Def on for the competition derek mmm viking is the best :)