Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: pjulk on October 05, 2008, 06:45:04 pm
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For the past couple of week on my domestics only i have gone back to ladders.
I have used my car as its cheaper to run and easier getting the ladders off than the van.
I actually have done more work since going back to ladders than i did with WFP.
I took my trolley in the car for leaded windows and chucked my harris in the back so not completely traditional.
But on your bog standard house's i actually earn't more money than i do with WFP and without the pain of having to purify water.
My expenses were only diesel for the car and that came out a lot less than my van.
I have never been happy with WFP but im now staying traditional but take my trolley just for leaded windows.
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Well done .
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Paul,why did you choose to use wfp ?
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It may not suit everyone.
I can see how annoying it must be without a van mount system.
Personally i cant see myself doing the same.
Good luck to you anyway :D
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I'm not slow at trad but wfp i'm alot quicker, not so much in time spent cleaning the window but in time spent up down ladder sometimes twice on a larger window .
But it don't suit all house as i have a large junk i do trad because the wfp just would'nt work,
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Pole King
Paul,why did you choose to use wfp
The only reason i changed was because i see on these forums 3 years ago about the WAHD 2005 and saying ladders can't be used after a certain date so changed over as i still wanted to work.
I wish i ignored all that rubbish now and carried on how i was.
Chris Galloway
I can see how annoying it must be without a van mount system.
Its not annoying at all i have a van and trolley system.
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You use which ever tool suits you best if that is working off ladders then so be it brave man i couldnt face going back to ladders as i am now a big softy
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I'm not slow at trad but wfp i'm alot quicker
On most standard house's there is not a lot in it WFP or traditional well not for an experienced window cleaner.
And traditional i find much more satisfying
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Pole King
Paul,why did you choose to use wfp
The only reason i changed was because i see on these forums 3 years ago about the WAHD 2005 and saying ladders can't be used after a certain date so changed over as i still wanted to work.
I wish i ignored all that rubbish now and carried on how i was.
Chris Galloway
I can see how annoying it must be without a van mount system.
Its not annoying at all i have a van and trolley system.
Paul,
so what`s going to happen to your website as it bosts health and safety this and health and safety that,working at height bla bla bla,what did you explain to your customers about that and what will you tell them ? that you were wrong ?
and that you are not earning as much and it`s about a speed thing now not safety ? :-\
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Paul
It's the time spent going up and down the ladder that i find loses the time as with wfp it's two secs away too the next window! Not the speed cleaning the window.
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You do lose time going up and down ladders yes i agree but a lot of my work is really compact i don't have to keep reeling the hose in and out moving the van.
With ladders i just park up grab my ladder and traditional gear and im gone for the rest of the day until im finished and save time there not keep moving van or mucking about with poles and hose.
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utter madness
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Paul,
Please keep us updated on your progress with the ladders as we hear of people that go back to using them then never hear anything again......
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Paul,
Please keep us updated on your progress with the ladders as we hear of people that go back to using them then never hear anything again......
I think he will be busy updating his website ;D
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Speed isnt the issue for me.
3 years ago when I was trad I came off my ladder and seriously injured myself and had to take a year off work in the process.
Im now WFP and the chances of this happening again are 0%
Even if it took twice as long to WFP my safety and family come first.
Dean.
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Speed isnt the issue for me.
3 years ago when I was trad I came off my ladder and seriously injured myself and had to take a year off work in the process.
Im now WFP and the chances of this happening again are 0%
Even if it took twice as long to WFP my safety and family come first.
Dean.
Well said Dean,
"safety first"
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I agree speed should not be the issue but for so many people ,it seems to be
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Pole king said -
so what`s going to happen to your website as it bosts health and safety this and health and safety that,working at height
My commercial i will still use WFP so as i no longer take on any domestic work the commercial will still be the same so the website can stay as it is.
what did you explain to your customers about that and what will you tell them ? that you were wrong ?
and that you are not earning as much and it`s about a speed thing now not safety ?
I just told them if they asked most didn't say a thing but the one's who did i said to them that i fancied doing it the traditional way for a change.
And its not a speed or safety thing or anything its all about satisfaction my satisfaction i couldn't care less if it took me twice as long i just was never happy with WFP and prefer traditional.
been cleaning traditional since 1987 and have always loved the job.
Changed to WFP early 2005 and i have never been happy with it and i started to hate the job.
This has not been a spur of the moment decision i have been thinking about it well over a year.
If i stick with WFP i know i will end up selling up and giving up for good.
Now going back to traditional has made me a lot happier again
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I knew before i posted this people will say stuff like safety and that.
I have been window cleaning 21 years and have never had a fall.
You take risks in everything you do and using ladders i find is no more of a risk than anything else.
It the person who use's the ladder who is normally at fault when they fall.
I hope i never do fall but you never know but its a small risk worth taking.
There are also risks with WFP trip and slip hazards, electrocution,
The Electric Window Cleaner -Said
Paul,
Please keep us updated on your progress with the ladders as we hear of people that go back to using them then never hear anything again......
Yes i will gladly keep you updated
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utter madness
100% agree,....
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Hmmmmmmm now where have i read this -
"no risk or damage from ladders"
"no soapy residue"
"more privacy"
:P
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He he
Maybe i will have to change the site a bit but as i no longer take anymore domestics on won't have to change a great deal.
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I knew before i posted this people will say stuff like safety and that.
I have been window cleaning 21 years and have never had a fall.
You take risks in everything you do and using ladders i find is no more of a risk than anything else.
It the person who use's the ladder who is normally at fault when they fall.
I hope i never do fall but you never know but its a small risk worth taking.
There are also risks with WFP trip and slip hazards, electrocution,
The Electric Window Cleaner -Said
Paul,
Please keep us updated on your progress with the ladders as we hear of people that go back to using them then never hear anything again......
Yes i will gladly keep you updated
Fair play for you to go back to ladders, but to say it is a small risk falling from a ladder you clearly have not come off (and I hope you dont) Ladder fall from the top you will be lucky to get away with only a broken bone hopefully not your back (like a m8 of mine that was 21) or 2 you know the other thing that can and does happen, so really ladders are not safe even if the user is experienced, I too have never had a fall (touch wood) nor do I want to have that risk every 10 mins 20 times day day, this is why I went to wfp. I am not having a pop at you in anyway, but just making it clear that ladders are dangerous even in the experienced hands, only the lucky get away without a fall because an accident is an accident at the end of the day and nobody goes out with a ladder to fall off..
I am ranting now so I will stop.
Hope all goes well with what ever you do anyway ;)
Ian
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I have picked up so many new domestic accounts from unhappy wfp customers ! Lets be realistic here , on commercial high reach wfp is the king of kings ! , but for domestic trad is the best by a huge mile .
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Completely agree with both statements
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but ladders are illegal
and you cannot earn 500 quid a day
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Just last week a customer informed me and his two neighbours would no longer require my services as they would be having their windows cleaned by a wfp operative numpty ! He was going to clean the properties for half the ammount I was charging ( At least Dick Turpin wore a mask ) He would also as a bonus give them the 2nd clean free !!! Got a call from a rather bashful ex customer asking if I was the forgiving sort ?
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I have picked up so many new domestic accounts from unhappy wfp customers ! Lets be realistic here , on commercial high reach wfp is the king of kings ! , but for domestic trad is the best by a huge mile .
I do agree a little, but the short of it WFP is not for everone, as some just cant do it, pure and simple and thats not pointing a finger at anyone, I was trad for years so have been there done it, I am not wfp and do ok for myself, and I have lost a few customers because of it but atthe same time I have picked up work from trad cleaners as they just cant do what I can.
So swings and round abouts, I can do both so I am happy.
and I say again, good on you for going back to ladders many would have just quit.
Ian
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I have picked up so many new domestic accounts from unhappy wfp customers ! Lets be realistic here , on commercial high reach wfp is the king of kings ! , but for domestic trad is the best by a huge mile .
i hsavnt lost any custies to trad cleaners! i have been a wc for 17 yrs...and from a lot of info i have gathered on here , i was earning a very well on ladders....but since i have been wfp i have doubled the size of my round and i work less hours....i am at less risk, MOST IMPORTANTLY!
if you were to ask any of my custies why they would choose me over a cheaper price, or a trad cleaner , the answer would be , that i am reliable, and they wouldnt want to risk losing me!
i dont care what method the customer prefers... i will provide the safest method ::)
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So swings and round abouts, I can do both so I am happy.
and I say again, good on you for going back to ladders many would have just quit.
Ian
Thankyou Ian
I nearly did quit i can use a WFP and the results i get are excellent but i just don't like it and my hearts not in it.
Im now happy again and thats all that matters.
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Matt said -
but ladders are illegal
and you cannot earn 500 quid a day
he he
No you are right though i can only manage £490 ;D ;D ;D
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So swings and round abouts, I can do both so I am happy.
and I say again, good on you for going back to ladders many would have just quit.
Ian
Thankyou Ian
I nearly did quit i can use a WFP and the results i get are excellent but i just don't like it and my hearts not in it.
Im now happy again and thats all that matters.
Fully understand m8, and good on you for sticking with it, I cant go back for other reasons, if your heart is not there then I know full well what you mean.
Ian
p.s your welcome ;)
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I dont understand all this doubled the amount off work i do and work less hours since switching to wfp. I wfp the upstairs because if is safer than using ladders and trad downstairs because it saves water. Any time saving is lost when i have to return to van and fill up or re-tread the path i have already taken to do downstairs. Even if i wfp up and down i doubt i could be twice as fast after moving van, reeling, unreeling. Maybe i was too fast at trad. After my initial wrong feeling about wfp, i am now happy and safer and would not go back to ladders. But the choice is yours mate good luck ;)
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I have been racking my brain for an analogy ! If you had a rare classic car with a 5k paint jobv would you (a) take it to tescos car wash ? or would you (b) take it to a hand wash ( with real hands on chamois , touching the curves of your baby ) Answers on a postcard please LOL .
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I have been racking my brain for an analogy ! If you had a rare classic car with a 5k paint jobv would you (a) take it to tescos car wash ? or would you (b) take it to a hand wash ( with real hands on chamois , touching the curves of your baby ) Answers on a postcard please LOL .
do it myself, wouldn't trust the muppets at the hand car wash!
What classic do you drive ?
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I knew before i posted this people will say stuff like safety and that.
I have been window cleaning 21 years and have never had a fall.
You take risks in everything you do and using ladders i find is no more of a risk than anything else.
Yes i will gladly keep you updated
There is one other risk of using ladders/wfp that most people dont appreciate until they get there. Thats the risk of permanent dammage to your skeleton which is only percieved backwards. ie only when you realise that you have for instance permanent arthritis/RSI etc.
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I dont understand all this doubled the amount off work i do and work less hours since switching to wfp. I wfp the upstairs because if is safer than using ladders and trad downstairs because it saves water. Any time saving is lost when i have to return to van and fill up or re-tread the path i have already taken to do downstairs. Even if i wfp up and down i doubt i could be twice as fast after moving van, reeling, unreeling. Maybe i was too fast at trad. After my initial wrong feeling about wfp, i am now happy and safer and would not go back to ladders. But the choice is yours mate good luck ;)
youve just quoted me... let me explain! because i am quicker and safer wfp, i have more ambitions and enthusiasm, and more energy, and so because i now enjoy my job i have greatly increased (doubled ) my round.....and because i have much more work , i now have the courage to charge a lot more because i can afford to, so whilst i dont literally do twice as much work, i can charge more because i dont need to be cheap to get more work...
as for speed i would say 1 man wfp = 2 men on ladders on my type or work which is mostly large domestic. ;)
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going back to ladders?...sod that
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;D well its nice to see at last some of you are waking up to the mass marketing of wfp ::) its not all best thing since sliced bread :o ;D just making some fat cats richer ::) when the job can be done hands on or with a normal pole ;D ladders are not banned certain people want them,that would make them even richer ::) :o :P well the justification goes on Trad or wfp ???
must add rather use a pole myself,but wfp ??? ::)
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Whatever suits you mate ;)
I sometimes think all us wfp only guys wonder "what if"
bob
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I have been racking my brain for an analogy ! If you had a rare classic car with a 5k paint jobv would you (a) take it to tescos car wash ? or would you (b) take it to a hand wash ( with real hands on chamois , touching the curves of your baby ) Answers on a postcard please LOL .
Tesco does a hands on car wash I use all the time ;D
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I am wfp and thought about going back to ladders too!
& thought about it................
& thought about it................
& thought about it................
& thought about it affecting my kids lives when their dad cant any longer play football with them and throw them around when hes broken his back! Thats why i changed, Safer for Me, Safer for My Family! .....God I sound like an advert for wfp!
If Ionics or anyone else want to pay me for this ad, please feel free! ;D ;D ;D
Seriously I loved using ladders, but safe now. But never say never! Good luck though
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;D the human touch ;D :o ::) :-*
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;D the human touch ;D :o ::) :-*
Machines can feel like humans ;D ;) :-X :-[ :P
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you will be lucky if they will pay you anything worth while! ::) :o but I to would rather use a pole,but wfp :-X ::) ££££££££££££££££££££ to buy to run :o what we are cleaning windows ::)
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Pole King
Paul,why did you choose to use wfp
The only reason i changed was because i see on these forums 3 years ago about the WAHD 2005 and saying ladders can't be used after a certain date so changed over as i still wanted to work.
I wish i ignored all that rubbish now and carried on how i was.not rubbish friend got fined 80 pound being up ladders
Chris Galloway
I can see how annoying it must be without a van mount system.
Its not annoying at all i have a van and trolley system.
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Trouble with advice on a forum is you cant see the person . Many posts on here can harm a new business ! I have invested my kids inheritence on several new enterprises , and its a joy to see them doing well ! For all the other posts there is always Viz !
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;D Trouble is certain people dont want to hear the truth spoken about certain things now do they ;D :o ::) :-X on here :-X might spoil certain peoples reputation or reputations :-X :o
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I went WFP about 18 months ago it was about 50/50 at first as i still used my ladders on half my run as it was quicker.Now 80% of my run i use ladders got totally fed up tripping up over my pole hose and the minibore also rosebushes gates,there could be one brick in the whole garden and i would manage to get tangled with it.Also would have to say ive got certain parts of my run like sheltered housing that used to take me 5 hours with ladders i can pole it in less than 3 and still use it on commercial so i will always keep my pole.The other thing i dont like about WFP is i always get a sore back and neck with it.
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;D Trouble is certain people dont want to hear the truth spoken about certain things now do they ;D :o ::) :-X on here :-X might spoil certain peoples reputation or reputations :-X :o
Truth spoken is only in some people eyes, I am not in any way anti trad as I still do it, but at the same time I think wfp is a very good tool, that some just either have not tried or tried and failed to learn how to use. At the end of the day we all are differebnt we run are business' different what works for some will not work for others, that is what makes life a challenge.
A little like a window cleaner being a tv star who would ever have thought that ;D
I think you should use wfp Terry and do many of use duel users a a favour (before you say no please think about it ;D )
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i bet if terry went wfp hed be the quickest wfpoler ::)
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I were cleaning a house , when a new sign written van ( was a figure with a pole in his hand raising it to the sky ) turned up ! He looked at me with a look of contempt , the likes of which i hadnt seen since i told my then wife to turn the radiaters down since it was summer ! He had a giant pole squirting the purest water onto the windows ( how he managed to keep the smug smile I dont know ) I had just finnished the front , checking the windows were ok ( sorry pure ) Anyway ,I was loading my 200lb ladders on my good shoulder , when the wfp guy caught my gaze and he winked at me ! He must have burnt the clutch out , cos I swear the van nearly took off ! I thank him now for showing what spraying water on a window can do for us trad guys !
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;D well the fact is no one yet has offerd me a good deal ;D some one offerd a crap one :o to which I said no! but just giving my view on wfp as I see it, ;D
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i bet if terry went wfp hed be the quickest wfpoler ::)
not at all, I could beat him trad I just had a bad arm at the show :-[ :-* lol
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;D well the fact is no one yet has offerd me a good deal ;D some one offerd a crap one :o to which I said no! but just giving my view on wfp as I see it, ;D
your welcome to come and work for me Terry, I can show you the ropes ;D and if you get a tv interview I will give you a wfp system free ;)
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;D what da yar mean if! I get a Tv interveiw ;D I have more of them then hot dins :D lets talk wonga show me the money show me the money ;D :-*
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;D well the fact is no one yet has offerd me a good deal ;D some one offerd a crap one :o to which I said no! but just giving my view on wfp as I see it, ;D
your welcome to come and work for me Terry, I can show you the ropes ;D and if you get a tv interview I will give you a wfp system free ;)
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;D well the fact is no one yet has offerd me a good deal ;D some one offerd a crap one :o to which I said no! but just giving my view on wfp as I see it, ;D
your welcome to come and work for me Terry, I can show you the ropes ;D and if you get a tv interview I will give you a wfp system free ;)
Just admit you are a queen Ian ! You need to seperate your pro life from private ducky !
Queen........... I think not, king maybe ::) My pro life on here people see me for what I am I hide nothing unlike alot I am not going to change for anyone I like the way I am and seem to get on with everyone that I speak to, I am never going to please every one nor an I going to try, what you see is what you get with me, always has been always will be ;)
The talk about the moderation bit , did you have any ideas ?
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?
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For the past couple of week on my domestics only i have gone back to ladders.
I have used my car as its cheaper to run and easier getting the ladders off than the van.
I actually have done more work since going back to ladders than i did with WFP.
I took my trolley in the car for leaded windows and chucked my harris in the back so not completely traditional.
But on your bog standard house's i actually earn't more money than i do with WFP and without the pain of having to purify water.
My expenses were only diesel for the car and that came out a lot less than my van.
I have never been happy with WFP but im now staying traditional but take my trolley just for leaded windows.
I'm surprised that you are earning faster with ladders than WFP Paul. I could do that for the odd job here and there but not over all. I assume you are still using a pole for the difficult to reach domestic windows? Good thinking about keeping WFP for the leaded ones as well.
I couldn't see me going back to ladders as a first choice but I'm pleased to hear you are doing what is most suitable for yourself. After all, these are all tools for cleaning windows. It can be easy to forget that when constantly WFPing.
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You do lose time going up and down ladders yes i agree but a lot of my work is really compact i don't have to keep reeling the hose in and out moving the van.
With ladders i just park up grab my ladder and traditional gear and im gone for the rest of the day until im finished and save time there not keep moving van or mucking about with poles and hose.
Yes I can see that a very compact round could suffer downtime with van moves. Although I have some compact blocks of work myself, a lot of my round is quite scattered so wouldn't suffer that problem as badly. Just take care up those ladders eh? Although I was fine on ladders, I did have an occasional near miss (VERY near miss in one instance).
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Hi Paul
Yes i will do awkwards one's with WFP and the leaded.
But the majority of my domestics will be traditional.
Im not knocking WFP by any means i think its a good tool but i really hate going to work now since i have been WFP and i get really cheesed of with it sometime's.
These last 6 months or so i have been getting less work done than i used to on ladders and i think its just because i no longer enjoy it.
But since going back on ladders i have started to like the job again.
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agree with you paul
went wfp nearly 4 years ago after a fall from ladders
heard about wahd 2005 coming up and went wfp spent a lot on new van and system and promptly lost a lot of work have just sold all wfp kit and taken a job wfp for a national cleaning company only because i need to return some money into the coffers
thoroughly enjoyed trad both the method and the customer satisfaction will be rebuilding a round in the near future the new van will go and replaced with a small car .
trad on a telescopic pole feet on the ground health and safety compliant no trip or slip hazard no massive outlay more profit happy clients and safety compliant and no ladders to fall off
basically good honest work done in a way that you do not need a flashy leaflet to explain how you do it and client acceptable
RESULT
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I wish you well in your new job.
But i don't think it will be long before you build up another round.
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already working on a new flyer which will be out by the end of the month emphasiseing not wfp window cleaning
will keep you posted
where are you paul
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WFP, trad...does it really matter?, it's only cleaning windows is'nt it.
They are tools of the trade but the divide is almost gang like....mines better than yours....can anyone really say anyone of the systems is better for all users?
Trad can be quicker and as safe as wfp and vicky verky...personally I doubt I could be as fast with trad as wfp on my working week...but individual houses...yup faster with trad.
The end of the day is it about an individuals 'acceptable' turnover against, expenses, time worked, saftey and of course 'how we feel'....if we can tick most of those boxes then we are truely fortunate souls.
Have a great week
Dave.
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if your trad or wfp and your happy with the way you work,who gives
a monkeys what anybody else thinks :)
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My post arent usually so direct but your not doing it right. Even with a trolley you should be much quicker than trad, and most believe ( I uncluded ) that a van mount is even quicker.
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Terry Burrows:
can you explain why you seem to view wfp as some huge big conspiracy? If so many people find it quicker than trad what do you have to say to that. The facts are that wfp is MUCH MUCH quicker than trad in MOST circumstances. Its not a maybe anymore, so many people have made the switch over and know its true, its a fact now. wfp is quicker for most window cleaning work. Fact! There is no way of denying it, the evidence is far too overwhelming.
But I do agree that perhaps your round Terry suits trad better. But for most people wfp is quicker. And a good wfp operator can clean glass and frames quicker than any trad cleaner.
Trad is really left behind when it comes to first cleans too. I did a hotel the other day, had it done in 2 hours with 2 operators. This was so soiled that it would have taken the entire day to do by hand. And there the facts. Every single job I do is quicker with a wfp. Your able to take on massive jobs that previously took days and can be done in a matter of hours.
Take a job I quoted for a little while back. The previous trad cleaner ( 3 of them ) took an entire week to clean a massive hotel. They would get accommodation included. But now this is done in less than a day by 2 operators!
But I know what you might say "wfp doesnt clean as well as trad" well its true that its easier to muck up a window using wfp. But a good operator like myself can clean to a superior standard than trad. How do I know this, because I used to use trad methods myself. And thats the problem. Most people have convinced themselves by making the change over. Its not like they have never tried trad methods. Some people on here have used trad methods for 30 years + and made the switch over. Oh and did I mention wfp is safer to. The facts are indisputable. Luke
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Lots of good points there. But in the defense of trad: When I walk away from a job I've done trad I KNOW 100% that it's a job well done because I'm up there hands-on with the glass and can immediately see the result. With wfp you walk away hoping that it all dries OK...sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't.
Also I never have to give the caveat that sometimes it takes 2 or 3 cleans before the windows come up good. If Mrs Public wants her windows "clean" because it's her daughters Christening on Sunday and 30 guests are coming back to her house for canapes and drinks she doesn't want to be told to put the Christening back 3 months because her windows won't be pristine until then.
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Also I never have to give the caveat that sometimes it takes 2 or 3 cleans before the windows come up good. If Mrs Public wants her windows "clean" because it's her daughters Christening on Sunday and 30 guests are coming back to her house for canapes and drinks she doesn't want to be told to put the Christening back 3 months because her windows won't be pristine until then.
If you know how to use wfp properly you would never have to give that excuse for not doing the job properly in the first place!
Its possible to get a good result first time everytime. 8)
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Also I never have to give the caveat that sometimes it takes 2 or 3 cleans before the windows come up good. If Mrs Public wants her windows "clean" because it's her daughters Christening on Sunday and 30 guests are coming back to her house for canapes and drinks she doesn't want to be told to put the Christening back 3 months because her windows won't be pristine until then.
If you know how to use wfp properly you would never have to give that excuse for not doing the job properly in the first place!
Its possible to get a good result first time everytime. 8)
Chris I've no doubt whatsoever that in your safe and experienced hands the windows come up great 1st time and every time. But I reckon that for every 1 Chris Galloway there's 6 who walk away "hoping" they dry ok.
I'm sure that most times they do but having been on this site for a number of years I've read countless reports of where they haven't.
WFP is a great piece of innovation but to me it's more hit or miss than trad.
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Simon Knight said -
already working on a new flyer which will be out by the end of the month emphasiseing not wfp window cleaning
will keep you posted
where are you paul
Hi simon i'm based in kent.
Keep us informed it would be good to see how go.
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My post arent usually so direct but your not doing it right. Even with a trolley you should be much quicker than trad, and most believe ( I uncluded ) that a van mount is even quicker.
You aint seen me traditional im pretty quick
It not a question weather its quicker or not i don't really care which way is quicker i prefer traditional and have never been struck on WFP.
And regarding doing WFP right i can use a WFP properly and as said before get excellent result but it's not for me.
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A bloke died the other month in my area - fell off his ladder and broke his back and he had been WCing for years. His family is obviously devastated. I can understand scaling back to just WFPing upstairs but to use a ladder again after having already invested in WFP is, imo, crazy! It only takes one bad fall...
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WFP is a great piece of innovation but to me it's more hit or miss than trad
So true i know that a few jobs i have done in the past have not been perfect using WFP and to be honest the amount of time i see posts about spots.
And if you get spots on the outside they look worse looking at them from the inside.
At least with Trad the results are instant if you have made a mistake it gets corrected there and then.
With WFP if you make a mistake you don't know unless a customer rings or you see it the following month.
There is pro's and con's which ever way you do it.
WFP is a great tool but not as good as some make out it is.
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I dont understand all this doubled the amount off work i do and work less hours since switching to wfp. I wfp the upstairs because if is safer than using ladders and trad downstairs because it saves water. Any time saving is lost when i have to return to van and fill up or re-tread the path i have already taken to do downstairs. Even if i wfp up and down i doubt i could be twice as fast after moving van, reeling, unreeling. Maybe i was too fast at trad. After my initial wrong feeling about wfp, i am now happy and safer and would not go back to ladders. But the choice is yours mate good luck ;)
youve just quoted me... let me explain! because i am quicker and safer wfp, i have more ambitions and enthusiasm, and more energy, and so because i now enjoy my job i have greatly increased (doubled ) my round.....and because i have much more work , i now have the courage to charge a lot more because i can afford to, so whilst i dont literally do twice as much work, i can charge more because i dont need to be cheap to get more work...
as for speed i would say 1 man wfp = 2 men on ladders on my type or work which is mostly large domestic. ;)
It was nothing personal mate, just that when i read things like twice as fast i dont believe it. If you didnt have to refill or move the van then maybe you could get close to 2 trad workers but noway would you be faster in reality.
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I dont understand all this doubled the amount off work i do and work less hours since switching to wfp. I wfp the upstairs because if is safer than using ladders and trad downstairs because it saves water. Any time saving is lost when i have to return to van and fill up or re-tread the path i have already taken to do downstairs. Even if i wfp up and down i doubt i could be twice as fast after moving van, reeling, unreeling. Maybe i was too fast at trad. After my initial wrong feeling about wfp, i am now happy and safer and would not go back to ladders. But the choice is yours mate good luck ;)
youve just quoted me... let me explain! because i am quicker and safer wfp, i have more ambitions and enthusiasm, and more energy, and so because i now enjoy my job i have greatly increased (doubled ) my round.....and because i have much more work , i now have the courage to charge a lot more because i can afford to, so whilst i dont literally do twice as much work, i can charge more because i dont need to be cheap to get more work...
as for speed i would say 1 man wfp = 2 men on ladders on my type or work which is mostly large domestic. ;)
It was nothing personal mate, just that when i read things like twice as fast i dont believe it. If you didnt have to refill or move the van then maybe you could get close to 2 trad workers but noway would you be faster in reality.
Birdy how long have you been wfp ?
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Had my kit 5 months and if your going to suggest that i am only a novice then yes i am. But after the few months that i have had wfp i have realised what it takes to achieve good results with the pole. Its not a matter of splashing the pole around the window as im sure you know. To suggest that one wfp worker can be faster than 2 trad workers is crazy in my opinion. Dont forget im the guy who cleans £3 houses all day so i have to get a move on to make any money. Wfp on upstairs is faster than trad but when you take into account packing equipment away, reels, refilling and moving van you cannot be twice as fast 2 trad guys. If you werent going to suggest i am a novice then i apologise.
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there are some buildings i do that i would love to use the ladder on but the Health and safety on the campus wont allow it, some of the buildings dry perfect other buildings i can only describe as a disgrace even though sometimes i spend ages on them and i would definately be quicker with ladder on these.
for all those that say they get them perfect all the time you are welcome to try on some of this work and i guarantee there will be some bad results, but as they are only cleaned once a year and it is the campus that has set the no ladder rules then they have to live with the standards that wfp obtains it is still annoying knowing i could get them perfect using trad.
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Good for you paul griffin, I, myself have many jobs that are far quicker trad & so I trad them. I too like trad, I use both methods to which ever suites best. Wfp can, sometimes, be so much hassle in some situations that the job becomes worthless! It just doesn't suit every situation. ;)
Regards
Tony
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A bloke died the other month in my area - fell off his ladder and broke his back and he had been WCing for years. His family is obviously devastated. I can understand scaling back to just WFPing upstairs but to use a ladder again after having already invested in WFP is, imo, crazy! It only takes one bad fall...
Had one less than a mile from where I live a couple of years ago. He didn't die but the blood from his head left the pavement pretty red I'm told. Amazingly, he was working again a month later even though they weren't sure if he would pull through. I've known the guy for years. He walks and speaks more slowly now. He can work but there is a definite impairment in the way he does things.
I had a couple of near misses myself. On the worst one, if the patio had been a foot bigger, I would have been in serious trouble. The top of the ladder stopped on the lowest course of tiles of the ground floor extension. The reason it stopped was because the bottom of the ladder had reached the end of the patio and stuck into the soft ground. When things like that happen, it makes you think a bit and slows you down. I wasn't really aware of WFP back then but that was one of the things that crossed my mind when making my decisions.
It's better to be born lucky than rich - though a bit of both wouldn't go amiss :) .
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This is for Ria! ;DI am very lucky I never use ladders ;D dont have to,dont need wfp ??? and I would never buy it! cause I got no use for it, and its fact there are lots out there that dont want it,custys I mean. we only do Blue chip stuff High profile companys etc,never do houses and would not do them to!
some time back we took a contract from a wfp who did a car showroom,
the manager hated it,so he kicked him out got us! it has its uses but the way the climate of money and the way that the work is going,no one is going to spend loads on wfp,you will get more Trad start up ??? the fact is wfp makers are not hearing those magic words, ladders are banned ;D ::)
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Good for you terry but i for one am happy doing houses and wouldnt touch "blue chip" with "the climate of money". Wfp dosent cost you loads mate £500 tops. My custys are happy im safer.
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If you use common sense and decent ladders , then you will be ok . I wont do jobs that are too high , and as a rule I wont ladder up more then the average size upstairs windows !
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I have read all this with interest, and in my experience in this job I have been told by custies of 4 serious injuries caused by falls from ladders in the last 12 months. 1 was a very experienced guy 20 odd years as a W/C. Was in Stoke Mandeville not sure if he can ever walk again, spinal and head injuries. Made me think, all this because of cleaning someones bloody windows!!!!
Yeah WFP is grief with its snags, water refills, maintanence, etc etc, but in all honesty unless I hit an overhead cable, not much harm will come to me, so I put up with it.
Incidentanly I prefer Trad and do all ground floor this way, unless pushed for time. Trad cleaners are the true exponents of window cleaning in my opinion. WFP gives good/acceptable results but is not rocket science and dont require much skill just a bit of experience maybe, and a lot of maintanence to guarantee good results. Trad is more enjoyable and skillfull.
But without wishing to sound too contradictory, stuff it would I go up a ladder to clean a window again given what has happened to some of these poor people. Unlucky dont touch it. Who wants a job that can maim or kill you for a few quid. I will remain a ground floor master craftsman.
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I went on a ladder course early this year.its a case of ladders are not dangerous
its the user! that was with the ladder federation,which now says I am ladder certified, whate I hear you say! just another course ??? another badge,does it make a differance ??? do to companys
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Good for you terry but i for one am happy doing houses and wouldnt touch "blue chip" with "the climate of money". Wfp dosent cost you loads mate £500 tops. My custys are happy im safer.
I have and still am looking at WFP but "£500 tops" is just not true. You say that like it’s the maximum it will cost you, yet some say you could spend that alone on your water bill for WFP. As for the systems they are very pricey if you look at the likes of ionics. But yeah, get a DIY system; you could get one for £500. Pure water has been used in the cleaning industry for a long time, if you look at car valeting companies. Aquariums use RO and DI kits for there fresh water fish, so its not necessarily a new idea.
I guess my view on this topic, is good luck mate and I am glad you are happy. Take every precaution that you can, and I wish you all the best.
Trad? Its funny when I hear people, call a squeegee and a bucket trad, when 100 years ago, it was chamois leather. Its wasn't until the 30's that the squeegee came into fashion, and now for close to 80 years of using squeegee’s people are moving to water fed poles. I have heard stories of how WC's who used rags, where unsure of the squeegee. Could this be the case with WFP, could WFP be the next tool of the trade.
Going by this forum, it would seem that it is, however when I look at the WC's in my area, and see the only WFP user, doing his residential from a ladder, I wonder if maybe it isn't.
There does seem to be a divide between WC's on here, each trying to justify there method. WFP users slagging the very method that they started with, and Trad WC slagging a method they in most cases have never used.
It seems that this sort of topic could go on for a long time yet on this forum, but it only goes to show that it is not a clean cut as some might make it out to be. The very fact that people are trying to come to some conclusion as to which is better as a standard business model for all WC's, and not coming to any kind of decision or final conclusion to these topics say to me that the industry as whole has not yet decided that the squeegee should be put back on the shelf of the local museums.
I think that we will see both of method used for a long time to come. If WFP ever does become cheap and most importantly cheap to run and maintain, as well as being a tool useable for any WC, not just them in back in front doors, or will garages, and the insurance goes down, I might see WFP taking over trad, but in truth that isn't going to happen and you all know it.
gerard :)
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I have been using my wfp setup for 5 months and so far i have not spent penny on my setup to maintain it. I did pay £900 for my setup but knowing what i know now i could have spent £500. I am not slagging trad or wfp. As has been said before we are window cleaners and we use tools to clean windows. My choice of tool now for the upstairs on the majority(not all) of my round is the pole, as it is safer.
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madness ???wfp is safer quicker and better results in general... a poll or survey would agree ::)
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Good for you terry but i for one am happy doing houses and wouldnt touch "blue chip" with "the climate of money". Wfp dosent cost you loads mate £500 tops. My custys are happy im safer.
I have and still am looking at WFP but "£500 tops" is just not true. You say that like it’s the maximum it will cost you, yet some say you could spend that alone on your water bill for WFP. As for the systems they are very pricey if you look at the likes of ionics. But yeah, get a DIY system; you could get one for £500. Pure water has been used in the cleaning industry for a long time, if you look at car valeting companies. Aquariums use RO and DI kits for there fresh water fish, so its not necessarily a new idea.
I guess my view on this topic, is good luck mate and I am glad you are happy. Take every precaution that you can, and I wish you all the best.
Trad? Its funny when I hear people, call a squeegee and a bucket trad, when 100 years ago, it was chamois leather. Its wasn't until the 30's that the squeegee came into fashion, and now for close to 80 years of using squeegee’s people are moving to water fed poles. I have heard stories of how WC's who used rags, where unsure of the squeegee. Could this be the case with WFP, could WFP be the next tool of the trade.
Going by this forum, it would seem that it is, however when I look at the WC's in my area, and see the only WFP user, doing his residential from a ladder, I wonder if maybe it isn't.
There does seem to be a divide between WC's on here, each trying to justify there method. WFP users slagging the very method that they started with, and Trad WC slagging a method they in most cases have never used.
It seems that this sort of topic could go on for a long time yet on this forum, but it only goes to show that it is not a clean cut as some might make it out to be. The very fact that people are trying to come to some conclusion as to which is better as a standard business model for all WC's, and not coming to any kind of decision or final conclusion to these topics say to me that the industry as whole has not yet decided that the squeegee should be put back on the shelf of the local museums.
I think that we will see both of method used for a long time to come. If WFP ever does become cheap and most importantly cheap to run and maintain, as well as being a tool useable for any WC, not just them in back in front doors, or will garages, and the insurance goes down, I might see WFP taking over trad, but in truth that isn't going to happen and you all know it.
gerard :)
A well thought out and honest post ;)
my say on the matter is this... If you are happier using trad then all the best.. but I have to say I found this post as a suprise :o
I think WFP suits domestic better then comercial in a lot of ways..
Domestic has a lot of uneven ground or roofs that you can not do when its to wet or icey... If I had to go back to ladders.. Some of my upstairs windows would not get done because of these things
Now they get them cleaned all year round ;D
But WFP does have its down side :'( some windows will just not take to WFP so its a trad job ;D ;D
as for this taking work off trad or wfp cleaners.. This is pointless
I have lost work to trad I have picked up work from trad I have picked up work from other wfp
as long as you do a good job use what tool is best
I love WFP more then trad , But would be lost with out it,
But thats just my opinion ;)
Adders Rinse and Clean
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i love trad work, its great, you can stand back and see gleaming windows
would i ever ditch the WFP, nope, why, its safer, pure and simple, i leave the house in the morning and the cahnces are i will be returning to see my family late afternoon
ive allways done trad on the bottoms and WFP on the top, i have done for years now
Im slowly doing all the houses with WFP, BUT the people who ask me to do them trad downstairs are happy when i say " yes ok , no worries ", i know people will say, your letting your customers run you biz, they are telling you how to clean windows, my response " yes they are, afterall they pay me the money "
i dont care if its WFP up and down or just up, not that important to me, i will have a 400 L tank in the van soon, so water isnt a issue, just customer satisfaction
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i love trad work, its great, you can stand back and see gleaming windows
would i ever ditch the WFP, nope, why, its safer, pure and simple, i leave the house in the morning and the cahnces are i will be returning to see my family late afternoon
ive allways done trad on the bottoms and WFP on the top, i have done for years now
Im slowly doing all the houses with WFP, BUT the people who ask me to do them trad downstairs are happy when i say " yes ok , no worries ", i know people will say, your letting your customers run you biz, they are telling you how to clean windows, my response " yes they are, afterall they pay me the money "
i dont care if its WFP up and down or just up, not that important to me, i will have a 400 L tank in the van soon, so water isnt a issue, just customer satisfaction
Pretty much the same for me ( apart from using it for years :P )
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Hi Guy's
my friend had a fall from ladders many years ago when he was a window cleaner he fell about 15ft and landed on his feet as his legs didnt bend the shock travelled up to his back and he broke it ,
he recovered and did many other non window cleaning jobs after... but that "old" injury has caught up and he had an operation last week to fuse two of his lower vertabrae.
He's in agony at the moment as he had to have two metal rods inserted in his back for extra strength....Speeds not important...... but please be careful... you can work 25 to 30 yrs off ladders safely but only need to fall once as what happened to my friend.
regards
Tomo
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Sorry to here that tomo
Thanks for sharing that with us, I can see WFP becoming the future and not for the wrong reasons but to help those bad things from happening
Thanks
Adders Rinse and clean
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Hi Guy's
my friend had a fall from ladders many years ago when he was a window cleaner he fell about 15ft and landed on his feet as his legs didnt bend the shock travelled up to his back and he broke it ,
he recovered and did many other non window cleaning jobs after... but that "old" injury has caught up and he had an operation last week to fuse two of his lower vertabrae.
He's in agony at the moment as he had to have two metal rods inserted in his back for extra strength....Speeds not important...... but please be careful... you can work 25 to 30 yrs off ladders safely but only need to fall once as what happened to my friend.
regards
Tomo
I did the same and was very very lucky not to break my back so the orthopedic surgeon told me.
Instead I smashed my ankle to pieces and broke my shin, both my feet and both of my heels!!!! :o :o :o
Dean
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Hi Guy's
my friend had a fall from ladders many years ago when he was a window cleaner he fell about 15ft and landed on his feet as his legs didnt bend the shock travelled up to his back and he broke it ,
he recovered and did many other non window cleaning jobs after... but that "old" injury has caught up and he had an operation last week to fuse two of his lower vertabrae.
He's in agony at the moment as he had to have two metal rods inserted in his back for extra strength....Speeds not important...... but please be careful... you can work 25 to 30 yrs off ladders safely but only need to fall once as what happened to my friend.
regards
Tomo
hi tomo
give us a ring, you know the no.
mike
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back working for me
80 miles each way to do one or two commercial contracts a day
not going there again
3500 miles a month i worked out over 4 day week for 4 weeks
250 miles per day and then 2 large commercial window cleans to do
i decided no thanks not for £280 gross per week
van going back tomorrow
start again trad on thursday for my best boss ME !!
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Welcome back already Simon!!
The only way you could have made that work was if you were staying away, and to keep costs down you would have had to sleep in the van.... ;D
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great ive just become the 100 poster my advice is becareful on them ladders mate we dont want to read about you in 6 months time .
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hi dale
no ladders except for one job
6 hours 58 windows all old listed building
will be using telescoping pole with mop and blade technique only
i'm back and ready to go window cleaning for money
got to get my money making machine working properly from now on
quantity and quality all in one place for a fair fee
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I would never go back to using ladders, I would pack it in first.
I cleaned windows in the 1950's using chamois mops and scrim, [still the quickest method for some jobs]
Squeegees then took over, but WFP is the best thing to happen to window cleaning in my humble opinion.
I get very few complaints, in fact I can't remember the last one, but then some people don't like to complain do they?
I know most of the guys prefer van mounted systems, but as most of my round is as compact as it gets the trolley system suits me better. A trolley system with two containers, and a mounted hose reel with 25 meters of micro bore hose. This gives me the best of both worlds, leave the trolley at the front and take the hose round the back.
You can clean a lot of windows with 50 litres of water, and not move the van once, and changing containers is quicker than moving the van, and what about parking issues?
If I had to move the van once for every two houses, I think trad would be more appealing.
I do a marina complex that only has pedestrian access on one side, I would need to run out 200 meters of hose to do it with a van mount.
I think in Paul's case it comes down to job satisfaction, or the lack of it, but a properly designed trolley could have made his life a lot easier.
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Right just a bit of an update on me going back to ladders.
The last couple of weeks have been great back on the ladders and my takings have been more or less the same as with WFP.
Todays taking were crap only did £86 i have not had a day with takings this low for a long time apart from if the weather is bad.
I may have to rethink things a bit here.
I prefer traditional and really don't like WFP but if i used WFP today my takings would have been a lot higher.
I may do some of my round traditional and some with WFP and see how i get on.
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Dai said -
I think in Paul's case it comes down to job satisfaction, or the lack of it, but a properly designed trolley could have made his life a lot easier.
Thats hit you have hit the nail on the head.
I have an omnitrolly classic also but find its a pain filling maybe i should be looking at a freedom type trolley.
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Even if i earned less, I'd still stick with WFP. My life is worth more than that.
I agree the dangers associated with ladder use can be reduced if you're properly equipped and trained,.. but the risk is never gone entirely.
Get a hot van mount system, then you'll love WFP!!!
:)
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this reminds me of cycling if you go out on a racer wear racing gear if you wear mountain bike gear nobody
waves or talks to you same goes other way try it if you dont belive it me personaly i use wfp or ladders
depending on speed or wether it can be cleand by wfp can not be botherd with eliteist attetudes
we are all in it to win it
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For the past couple of week on my domestics only i have gone back to ladders.
I have used my car as its cheaper to run and easier getting the ladders off than the van.
I actually have done more work since going back to ladders than i did with WFP.
I took my trolley in the car for leaded windows and chucked my harris in the back so not completely tradition
But on your bog standard house's i actually earn't more money than i do with WFP and without the pain of having to purify water.
My expenses were only diesel for the car and that came out a lot less than my van.
I have never been happy with WFP but im now staying traditional but take my trolley just for leaded windows.
hows it going ? are you still on ladders ,or gone back to the pole ?
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I still do some on ladders but have to admit gone mostly back to the pole.
I still prefer traditional but i found myself getting far to behind on ladders.
What i do now is the house's i was quick traditional i have kept traditional.
The rest are back on the pole.
That way i get to use both methods and i'm a lot happier.
I also now do more house's downstairs traditional as i prefer it.
So i found out going back to ladders full time i must be mad.
But mixing it up a bit is working out well.
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Now just wait for the told you so's
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glad its working out for you, at the end of the day, as long as you are happy in your work,thats all that matters ;)
daz
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I was asked to clean a block of 12 flats wednesday (Builders clean!)!
I had to say no!
Three stories high, no way I could do a builders clean (scraping off labels etc) with a pole!
I wouldn't go that high on a ladder these days!
Had to re-think one of my slogans... "You name it, we'll clean it!" :-[
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I'm not slow at trad but wfp i'm alot quicker
On most standard house's there is not a lot in it WFP or traditional well not for an experienced window cleaner.
And traditional i find much more satisfying
I can get the satisfying bit but it's a delusion:
Benefits of wfp:
1) the custie gets better service cos the windows defitnely stay cleaner for longer. Most of my custies are on 6 weeks, some 8. They'd all be on 8 but for needing more custies!
2) no ladder damage to Walls, garden etc, apart from the odd flower head getting it.
3) if your round is tight, then 25 a day should easily be poss, 30 in the summer. When I wuz on ladders I didn't beyond 15-18 a day.
I think the problem is van mounts. They were designed for commercial work. Residential is more suited to trolley/backpack. I know I use a quad but afriend in his sixties uses a backpack on a trolley & he's not far behind me!
Kevin j
2)
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Now just wait for the told you so's
They told you so! ;D
Seriously - it looks like you've found a good balance; well done!
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Most of my work is now wfp. as i broke my tibia & fiblia in one fall from 11ft in 1986 (thats your both bones at the bottom of your leg) and I was off 6 months, just had the screws taken out last week, 23 years later. Time for a career change or what!..... Although i was a driving instructor for a few years,
but you cant make a livin out of that. S, especially stuff ladders, especially in the winter, as you become too complacent......Laters.
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went out this morn, well noon, and it was still frosty, and im some places icy.. stuff using ladders on a day like today.
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Now just wait for the told you so's
Told you so :)
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stan your just frightned of geting wfp nicked up Bacup ;D
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Wfp a great tool! only trouble is any tom dick or harry that was too scared of heights or could never use a blade is at it now.
wf is great once you know what your doin "a lot don't" but i would have to say i enjoy window cleaning far less since changing over, its just plain boring and annoying messing about with bloody hoses all the time, now just lately have started doing a lot of lower windows trad i seem to enjoy more.
i know some that can't do trad at all!!
paul
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i have thought about converting some of my work back to trad
i did some trad work last week found myself a lot happier and on
the two up and downs i was doing a little quicker. between dog
muck hoses snagging and pole coming down when you dont want it
i feel that i have had enough of wfp at mo ;D
so i am going to buy the wagtail products and trad on my smaller work
which accounts for 60% of my round no ladders but use trad pole for upstairs
but still use my wfp for my three storey work and any awkward jobs i have
which accounts for the other 40%
hopefully the variation will stop me from going insane :-\ :)
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If you have the right work no one in there right mind would want to go back to trad at all,i can`t imagine now doing 5-10 bed houses with a blade or scrim after using WFP for over 3 years +.Shops get the blade and that`s it if i can help it,like i say it`s all down to the work you have to whether it`s easier-better or not,most of the work i now pole has at least cut the time in half more often than not it now takes a third of the time it used to.
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And another thing i was always behind working off of ladders if i had a holiday you never quiet catch up with it,if you get a good spell of weather with WFP you can end up getting if front of yourself even if you have lots of work.
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If you have the right work no one in there right mind would want to go back to trad at all,i can`t imagine now doing 5-10 bed houses with a blade or scrim after using WFP for over 3 years +.Shops get the blade and that`s it if i can help it,like i say it`s all down to the work you have to whether it`s easier-better or not,most of the work i now pole has at least cut the time in half more often than not it now takes a third of the time it used to.
I AGREE WOoops..... its all down to the type of round , i dont do tarraced ,or small houses .....well i do , but i have a minimum charge £10 unless i have a few in a row, but none of this £5 a house thing :o ...most of my work is suited to wfp, but then thats the work iv targeted, and iv dropped the work that is nt for wfp... it just makes sence to me....SAFER ... QUICKER...it just takes hard work to keep hunting for this work, but it does pay in the long run ;D
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you can end up getting if front of yourself even if you have lots of work.
sounds like time travel to me ;D
::) ::)
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If you have the right work no one in there right mind would want to go back to trad at all,i can`t imagine now doing 5-10 bed houses with a blade or scrim after using WFP for over 3 years +.Shops get the blade and that`s it if i can help it,like i say it`s all down to the work you have to whether it`s easier-better or not,most of the work i now pole has at least cut the time in half more often than not it now takes a third of the time it used to.
I AGREE WOoops..... its all down to the type of round , i dont do tarraced ,or small houses .....well i do , but i have a minimum charge £10 unless i have a few in a row, but none of this £5 a house thing :o ...most of my work is suited to wfp, but then thats the work iv targeted, and iv dropped the work that is nt for wfp... it just makes sence to me....SAFER ... QUICKER...it just takes hard work to keep hunting for this work, but it does pay in the long run ;D
Once you have all your custies used to WFP your life is so easy it`s a joke,anyone who prefers a ladder over a pole allday needs there head testing.
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If you do have to get the ladder off for the odd time this time of year you feel the cold more than you used to aswell,due to having gloves on most of the time lol.
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i agree, alot of people need their head testing :o
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i wear nice warm leather gloves , i have 2 pairs.....at the moment i use isopropyl in the frosty weather , but next winter i will have a warm water thingy , L5 thingy :D
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[]
I,anyone who prefers a ladder over a pole allday needs there head testing.
where do i get my head tested ;D
in hospital, when you fall off :o and before you answer ....look at the statistics....accidents do happen to the most experienced people...
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i personally never said i would be using ladders again just would like
a bit more variation plus on certain parts of my round i have been quicker trad
wfp is just another tool for the job its not always the be all and end all
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I'd forgotten why I stopped reading this forum. After reading the post by NWH I remember. Opinionated and giving no useful input at all. Tomorrow I'll clean windows. How I do them will be up to me and I'll decide depending on the windows and the conditions.
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If you do have to get the ladder off for the odd time this time of year you feel the cold more than you used to aswell,due to having gloves on most of the time lol
Its very rare i wear gloves.
I certainly have not this year.
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P holley said
in hospital, when you fall off
It's a small risk all people who use ladders know about and as far as statistics goes its hardly any that fall compare to the amount of people using ladders.
Most people won't fall from a ladder so you shouldn't put when you fall as most people won't it should be if you fall.
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I'd forgotten why I stopped reading this forum. After reading the post by NWH I remember. Opinionated and giving no useful input at all. Tomorrow I'll clean windows. How I do them will be up to me and I'll decide depending on the windows and the conditions.
You have the option to read or reply i`m afraid i`m not 1 of the butt licking brigade on here and i give my honest opinion,if you don`t like it TUFF.
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iv fallen off and others have fallen off but arent here to tell you about it! back to ladderrs only last night i was talking to a freind who went back to ladders because it suited his round...
he fell off ... he cracked arib , bruised his kidney and his back is purple!
hes going back wfp as soon as he can move again and he said he wont even use a ladder on flat roofs etc...i used ladders for 15 years and im glad i no longer have to use them unless I HAVE TO!
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WFP has been around long enough now and about 9 in 10 WC`s can`t be wrong,if people still want to use a ladder let em.If they wine when they fall off it will fall on deaf ears.
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I'd forgotten why I stopped reading this forum. After reading the post by NWH I remember. Opinionated and giving no useful input at all. Tomorrow I'll clean windows. How I do them will be up to me and I'll decide depending on the windows and the conditions.
You have the option to read or reply i`m afraid i`m not 1 of the butt licking brigade on here and i give my honest opinion,if you don`t like it TUFF.
STAYING SAFE IS AUSEFULL TIP.....JUST ASK SOME OF THE GUYS WHO FELL OFF A LADDER! OH SORRY YOU CANT !THEY ARENT AROUND ANYMORE :o
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WFP has been around long enough now and about 9 in 10 WC`s can`t be wrong,if people still want to use a ladder let em.If they wine when they fall off it will fall on deaf ears.
9 out 10 ::) what a load of nonsense maybe 9 out of ten on the forum
not inthe whole of the british isles. ;D
i use wfp myself but it isnt always right for every job but im not so far
up my own arse that i think im the only person who is right.
i sometimes get the feeling some people need always to be
right about wfp to justify the outlay they have made
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Who`s had a big outlay then,and keep using naughty words like that and Dave will ban you. :-*
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???never mentioned big, but you read it how you want to ::)
thanks for the kiss but your not really my type ;D
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Best looking WC you`ll ever know. ;D
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now now boys... people will start talking ;)
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Best looking WC you`ll ever know. ;D
obviously not a lot of mirrors in vlads house ;D
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well done paul
same here
lost lots of clients due to wfp now trying to re build a round on the basis of better clean done trad
will be a lot of fun
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The problem with TRAD is you become too complacent in where you put the ladders, 'cos they were safe there last time i cleaned this house' Different day drier or wetter, 25 years experience and 2x 2inch screws in me leg tells me its complacency. Doesnt matter how long youve done the job.
WFP has got to be the future, cos if its not my 9 year old daughters going to grow up without her dad!
Unless I get a job in an office (but then I'll probably get office sickness). .......Laters
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I find the more people you talk to these days about WC it`s surprising how many know about WFP,someone said to me last week i saw a WC and do you know he still climbs a ladder why hasn`t he got one of those pole thingys.
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Yeah well he`s in the minority or can`t be bothered to improve his earnings or life.
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I,ve had wfp diy trolley for about 3 years and I still do most my work trad, infact 90% is still trad. Every1 on here said that I would soon change over when I'm up and running with wfp but I never have. I only use it on the hard to reach windows and even then it has to pay well to make it worth it. I also couldnt be bothered with a van
Steve
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done wfp 3 vans got bigger every time
now owe £9k on a van worth £4k and have sold all wfp equipment
gone back to trad have re aligned pricing and have picked up 6 new clients because of the change back
hoping to get help from family with the van defeceit and move forward with another vehicle
will be bought and paid for .
aiming for total of 500 new clients next year
hopefully this can all gel in the fullness of time
in my opinion the clients love trad more than they love their family in some cases
lets hope so for my sake
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done wfp 3 vans got bigger every time
now owe £9k on a van worth £4k and have sold all wfp equipment
gone back to trad have re aligned pricing and have picked up 6 new clients because of the change back
hoping to get help from family with the van defeceit and move forward with another vehicle
will be bought and paid for .
aiming for total of 500 new clients next year
hopefully this can all gel in the fullness of time
in my opinion the clients love trad more than they love their family in some cases
lets hope so for my sake
Ever been to one of those preserved steam railways? - I love 'em! All the "anoraks" like me and the older generation bringing back happy steam filled memories... All these lines are predominantly run by enthusiastic volunteers who love every minute of being there.
But the real railway world progresses towards 175mph intercity electric trains and takes you from London to Bristol in less than 90 minutes. I know - commuting trains get crowded but that's because more and more people want to use them. Not perfect but useful to the majority.
There's room for both - but the world moves on and the prudent and wise, will IMHO stay with wfp until something better comes along. Notice how more are going "hot"? - that's my next move.
Let the trad. boys enjoy the mental security of their "world" while we wfp'ers enjoy the physical and financial security of ours. I just encourage newbies to go straight to wfp while learning trad. methods for windows they can reach while standing on the ground. If only because it's the safest and again IMO the safest in regard to legislative and insurance issues.
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WFP has been around long enough now and about 9 in 10 WC`s can`t be wrong,if people still want to use a ladder let em.If they wine when they fall off it will fall on deaf ears.
round here its 1 in 10 wfp,perhaps our trad guys cant be wrong ;D
Like that around my way too but WFP is slowly increasing in percentage of users I think.
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done wfp 3 vans got bigger every time
now owe £9k on a van worth £4k and have sold all wfp equipment
gone back to trad have re aligned pricing and have picked up 6 new clients because of the change back
hoping to get help from family with the van defeceit and move forward with another vehicle
will be bought and paid for .
aiming for total of 500 new clients next year
hopefully this can all gel in the fullness of time
in my opinion the clients love trad more than they love their family in some cases
lets hope so for my sake
Ever been to one of those preserved steam railways? - I love 'em! All the "anoraks" like me and the older generation bringing back happy steam filled memories... All these lines are predominantly run by enthusiastic volunteers who love every minute of being there.
But the real railway world progresses towards 175mph intercity electric trains and takes you from London to Bristol in less than 90 minutes. I know - commuting trains get crowded but that's because more and more people want to use them. Not perfect but useful to the majority.
There's room for both - but the world moves on and the prudent and wise, will IMHO stay with wfp until something better comes along. Notice how more are going "hot"? - that's my next move.
Let the trad. boys enjoy the mental security of their "world" while we wfp'ers enjoy the physical and financial security of ours. I just encourage newbies to go straight to wfp while learning trad. methods for windows they can reach while standing on the ground. If only because it's the safest and again IMO the safest in regard to legislative and insurance issues.
True but I have fallen over my hose and slipped on water that has dripped
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While I agree that ladders used correctly by an experienced operator pose only a very small risk, that risk is taken so often that it can't be ignored. I think it's more the context of the risk,.. the "I have to do this to feed my family" factor that helps ppl rationalise. The same risk factor in a different situation might make many ladder users think twice.
If I gave you a lifetimes supply of vitamin tablets, 1 a day for 50 years (18262 tablets) and told you just 1 randomly placed tablet was a deadly poison,.... would you take them? Even if the odds were 100 times better, would you take any chance like that if it wasn't for feeding your family?
The job can be done & the money earned without ladders. Not everyone falls,... but why take the chance?
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so am i,totally happy trad earn enough and have happy life,had today off heavy snow ,probley tommorrow as well since its still here and freezing but not a problem,no stress ;D
same here. cant be bothered to go out in -3 which is what it was an hour ago, i tried monday and wasnt too bad but its hard work......wfp would be worse?? cos you aint moving about as much?
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No probs down here in Herts its been sunny all day.
I had a custy ask me to go back to trad. She is a really nice custy so I agreed but it have also put the price up to allow for it. I am in fact better off as it was hassle wfp for 1 house even though its a nice size
Steve
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Went out this morning WFP pump was froze.
Defrosted that with hot water bottle and 1 hour later working fine.
Got to the first job and the battery was flat on my system just a trickle and i charged the thing last night.
Anyway got my ladders off and worked from them and they didn't break down or anything.
I must removed my signwriting as it say ladderless window cleaning.
Well it was but i now spend a lot of time back on ladders.
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Im going to invent a jet pack, to attach to a back pack, scrim, pole,brush, RO-DI, resin thingy majggy.
Ladders, WFP, whatever anyones happy with, as long as your happy..........Laters