Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: birdymiller on October 02, 2008, 08:47:02 pm
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Ive just about converted all my round to wfp, just using ladders for flat roofs. Happy with wfp just wondering how the freezing frosts wiil effect my setup. I use 25l barrels and a backpack. What can i expect when its 0 degrees, will anything work. Do you start later or can the whole day be written off. Any tips would be appreciated :)
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Ive just about converted all my round to wfp, just using ladders for flat roofs. Happy with wfp just wondering how the freezing frosts wiil effect my setup. I use 25l barrels and a backpack. What can i expect when its 0 degrees, will anything work. Do you start later or can the whole day be written off. Any tips would be appreciated :)
cue NWH, you can use a printers wetting agent, a back pack should be fine though, but you will get answers to this I cant remember the spelling, I think it is isoprofinal (something like that)
Ian
p.s I have never used it
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Buy 5 litres of Isopropanol for about £10-£15 and add a can of coke full per 500ltrs,the water will bubble up on the glass as if it has detergent in it when the bubbling stops add some more.If you don`t run the tank dry you will get longer out of it,i find out of the above measure i get about 2000ltrs of working water with it.The first thing to freeze in the winter is the Y peice on the brush and the jets,Iso stops this as soon as you add it to your water.
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impossible.
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impossible.
Richard Head.
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www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ispropanol-water-d_988.html
You are using 285ml per 500l tank of water which is 0.057% - work it out numpty
There is not enough to make a blind bit of difference to the freezing properties of your water - look at the chart.
When you add screen wash to your vans windscreen washer system how much do you add to stop it freezing in the jets?
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impossible.
ftp have you ever tryed ipa in your water ? i dont think you have your response when ipa ever gets mentionend is allways negative , why ?
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Why? because i used it for thirty years in the print trade. It's used as a wetting agent at 12% in water at no more than nine degrees. If you look at the charts (any) you will see it can't possibly stop your water freezing in such small quantities it's just not enough.
At minus four degrees (not particularly cold) you will need ten percent alcohol and more - work out what ten percent is of your tank.
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So i could get a frozen pole that could stop me working. How many days last winter could you not work because of freezing conditions?
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have you ever used it in your water while cleaning windows in freezing weather ??????????? no have you ever used it while cleaning windows ??????????? no reason i know you havent is that you allways give a negative response , if you had used it your response would be positive when using for window cleaning and not printing .
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You obviously can't read then, it's there in black and white why can't you understand that?
If you want to stop your screen washers freezing you have to double the concentration not add a pinhead of methonal.
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i think that i have read somewhere that pure water freeze at a differant temperature to tap water ??? so if this is true, will the smaller amount of iso make a greater differance.
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You obviously can't read then, it's there in black and white why can't you understand that?
look mate ive seen what the charts say and ive got to disagre with them , ive used the stuff in my tank for over twelve months now , at the begining of this year 2 of my mates lost work due to frozen pipes while i was out working , wonder why this was all i was doing diffrent was adding ipa to my water .
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So you defy all laws of science?
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i think that i have read somewhere that pure water freeze at a differant temperature to tap water ??? so if this is true, will the smaller amount of iso make a greater differance.
think i read on the traing academy that jeff i think did a little experiment using tap water & pure put 2 glasses in the freezer and they both froze more or less the same he didnt use ipa so i will try it using ipa then post my findings , perhaps ftp minght want to try aswell .
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Whilst your at it, watch how it sits on top of your water if you don't mix it. Don't forget you only want 0.057% in your glass to replicate your van! Of course if you add enough it will stop it freezing but that's my whole argument.
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So you defy all laws of science?
im not defying no laws mate , all im saying is that i use the stuff and it works , i know i will be working in the winter while a lot wont be , it wont be long before the topics start on what heater should i use , my pipes were frozen , i had to defrost , my pump was frozen , i take my ro in the house at night so it wont freeze ... i use ipa mate and it prevents this end of .
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Of course if you add enough it will stop it freezing
i must be adding enough then .
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i cannot wait till it gets colder, we can have this discussion on a daily basis
;D ;D
all we need now is a " how much do you earn " poll, dont forget the over 500 quid a day option
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The most likely thing to freeze up is the jets or Y piece on your pole hose as it has the smallest diameter on any of your water carrying equipment. I use 6mm Y pieces and 2mm jet heads as they are half as likely to freeze up as a 2-4mm Y piece and 1mm jets left outside exposed to minus temperatures.
Pays to insulate pump in the van and possibly drain it the evening before freezing temperatures.
I'ved worked in minus 5 degrees at 6am with no problems but I'm fortunate I have a hot system so nice warm hands in the winter for me. I'm now using Gardiners thermal minibore hose which has extra insulation to hopefully prevent hose freezing up if really bad. Time will tell as I will try it with cold water when it gets below freezing to make the comparison.
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ive worked at minus 2 on a comercail job, the water hit the floor and turned to ice, i then decided to sqeegee the doors and call it a day, my mop stuck to the door ::) ::) i looked a right clown when i had to go into the place and ask from some antifreeze screenwash ;)
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So i could get a frozen pole that could stop me working. How many days last winter could you not work because of freezing conditions?
LESS THAN AN HOUR BIRDY, and I added nothing to my water, as said it was top of pole the froze, I always carry bags of salt in the winter for a safety measure.
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Birdy take your bacpack indoors over night along with 2x20L containers of water, it will help when its really low temps in the mornings. I used a small ammount of Iso and it helps prevent the jets freezing up when they hit the freezing air but the bristles usually freeze first at around -3 degrees. ) note I use a bypass system that mixes the Iso in the container automatically.
If its that cold stay indoors for a bit and work later into the dark nights.
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I left a wfpole resting against a custies bedroom sill once, drove off and realised what I had done when I got home. Phoned the custie to leave it by her back door but she couldn't remove it because it had froze to the sill late that evening. Next morning I was up a ladder with a kettle of boiling water trying to de-ice my brush head from the sill. Had to leave it on top of a flat roof for the pole hose to thaw out for at least an hour in the sun. ;D
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i had about 2 inches of ice in the top of my barrels at the start of this year ( i would just poke the hose though and carry on ;))
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i had about 2 inches of ice in the top of my barrels at the start of this year ( i would just poke the hose though and carry on ;))
You should have used isopropanol Matt ;D
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i had about 2 inches of ice in the top of my barrels at the start of this year ( i would just poke the hose though and carry on ;))
You should have used isopropanol Matt ;D
tell me more, ive never heard of this stuff, it must be great ;D ;D ;D
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In the winter this is where a trolley or backpack are a godsend.
Last year i had the pumps and pipes on my van system freeze up but as i also have a trolley i can bring that in at night and use that if the van is frozen.
But you still get the pole hose freezing whilst using it and thats when WFP is buggered.
Then i go back to ladders and only stop if the water starts to freeze when i use my applicator.
This year if my van freezes im not mucking about trying to defrost it i lost too much time the last couple of years doing that im going straight back to ladders.
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this is where a pump box / board coming in handy, just bring it in from your car / van at night
then attach it back to your van / trolley in the morning
i know some1 who lines up 4 25 L barrels next to the lounge rad at night from end of oct -- march ;)
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i know some1 who lines up 4 25 L barrels next to the lounge rad at night from end of oct -- march ;)
Wor Lass would never allow that!
I bring the backpack in at night after it once froze on me (no damage was done) and I had to defrost it with warm water.
My barrels, I generally load them into the car the night before.
Oh, I also take my brush head and pole hose in (I use an external hose), because once on my first job on a freezing morning, I went to wash a window and heard a 'thunk'; it was the sound of a solidly frozen brush head hitting the window like a big chuck of ice.
Winter is a pain!
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Someone who uses isopropanol, put it in pure water in a container at the exact same ratio as you do in the tank, and put it in the freezer and see if it turns to ice, if it don't..... I'm convinced ;D
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I'll post whatever i like thank you very much, untill someone can convince me that a massive coke can of ipa in five hundred litres of water works in minus four i won't be wasting my money. It's no good coming out with these claims if they don't stand up to reasoning. I agree that it will lower the freezing point of water but not in those quantities.
As for the rest of the year my windows are clean and shiney so why bother to add it? Pure water works or haven't you noticed the gleaming windows it produces?
If you think it works then tell me EXACTLY how such a tiny amount can change the properties of water.
Until now I hadnt read any of the recent IPA threads. But today I was thinking to myself with it being so cold " i will need to check out ipa, to see if it works" but then i thought, well what % will raise the freezing temperature. so I thought I might have to google it or do a test with my freezer and different percentages.
Anyway I dont need to do any tests now, the facts on paper from FTPS link are you need 10% IPA to stop freezing in winter. Well thats a ridiculous amount of IPA. But Im also not silly enough to presume I know it all. Something else could be at play here. Something not quite understood by us as Window Cleaners, so I will be checking it out and if it freezes, then I wont be using it anymore, but I hold my opinion until then, despite the "facts". thank you goodnight!!!
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impossible.
Richard Head.
;D
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bbbrrrrr!!its just like the artic ::) amount of time i lost last year due to freezing weather was not even worth worrying about,if it ends up that bloody cold and
everywhere is frozen ,ipa or no ipa i wont be splashing water about anyway :)
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when working a couple of years ago it wasnt cold enough to freeze the van but the wind chill was cold, the water started freezing on the glass and the pavements ended up being sheets of glass. dont forget your rock salt!!
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i'm amazed you lot are still on about freezing pipes etc, when you can get warm (hot) water on demand for£250??
carry some salt for pathways and bob's your auntie's husband ;)
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carry some salt for pathways and bob's your auntie's husband ;)
Cover my path with skiddy unsightly salt and I'd sack you. ;)
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go to agree salt and even grit underfoot can be as slippy as ice
have seen many a person take a tumble slipping on it
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well I ain't not working in winter... I would rather put salt (not brown rock salt) than have a claim on my hands
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i'm amazed you lot are still on about freezing pipes etc, when you can get warm (hot) water on demand for£250??
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Tell me about how I can do it for £250 please - I could justify doing that.
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Cover my path with skiddy unsightly salt and I'd sack you.
Squeaky, I remember last winter you were against this idea. Slip and die and your customers family wont only sack you but sue you. Have you ever tried it? if you havent you will be suprised. You only need a tiny sprinkling that isnt even noticeable. You cant see it and the customer is safe! Luke
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when working a couple of years ago it wasnt cold enough to freeze the van but the wind chill was cold, the water started freezing on the glass and the pavements ended up being sheets of glass. dont forget your rock salt!!
I remember a few years back when I was trad up the ladders and water freezing on the glass mop on and blade off no chance trying to scrape the ice off the glass lol packed up and went home - but now Im water fed pole and have more work than I did last year im gonna see what the crack is with the cold weather and wfp I think last year some of the posts were on about heaters in the vans overnight to stop freezing must admit its sounds like a good idea think im gonna try that if it gets really cold - still got my trusty trolley as a backup aswell though ;)
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Isnt there a big issue concerning putting salt down with regards to admitting repsonsibility for causing the slip hazzard in the first place? I remember round these parts a couple of years ago, a local shopping complex wouldnt put any down for that very reason, and it was trecherous. We live in such an "American style sue for anything culture" its ridiculous.
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Isnt there a big issue concerning putting salt down with regards to admitting repsonsibility for causing the slip hazzard in the first place? I remember round these parts a couple of years ago, a local shopping complex wouldnt put any down for that very reason, and it was trecherous. We live in such an "American style sue for antthing culture" its ridiculous.
I wouldn't even entertain the thought.
I've skidded on it myself a few times.
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I was worried about this after starting last year. All i did last year was run some hot water through the system first thing on an icey morning then didnt have any probs rest of day.